AL MVP: Cabrera or Trout

[RuntheBall]

Alright, this kind of took off in the Triple Crown thread, but I wanted to start a poll to see what others think. (And to keep the other thread more about the triple crown).


Also, does your vote change if Miggy does/ doesn't win the Triple Crown?

 

[Sherm Sticky]

I chose Cabrera no matter what happens.

 

[GoldenIsThyFame]

Who do you think ends up having the better career?

 

[Kaneyoufeelit]

I chose Cabrera no matter what happens.

This makes sense. I don't understand the people (not necessarily on IE) who say that IF he wins the triple crown then he has to win the MVP. Either his season is MVP caliber or it isn't. With that said, Trout

 

[johnsben]

People are throwing out the saber statistics of why Trout should win. Well, using WaR, Angels miss the playoffs with or without Trout. Tigers make playoffs with Cabrera and miss without him.

One way of looking at MVP.

 

[RuntheBall]

This makes sense. I don't understand the people (not necessarily on IE) who say that IF he wins the triple crown then he has to win the MVP. Either his season is MVP caliber or it isn't. With that said, Trout

I agree 100% with this. I don't think 1 HR or 2 point in BA should change the MVP- though it is pretty cool.

I just put it in incase some people would change their vote- I'm sure some people would.

 

[IrishLax]

I understand what the stats say about Trout. I'm a huge stats guy.

WITH THAT BEING SAID.... Cabrera went on a huge tear to get his team into the playoffs. Has only missed 1 game and was a rock of consistency when the team around him floundered for much of the year.

Trout started slumping when it mattered most, didn't play a full season, and his team isn't going to the playoffs.

So if you want a computer to just pick the guy with the highest WAR to be the MVP... that's totally fine. It's logical and makes total sense. But then you shouldn't have voters/selectors... and as soon as you start weighing anecdotal and historical factors as measures of "success" Cabrera gets the vote.

 

[Sherm Sticky]

I understand what the stats say about Trout. I'm a huge stats guy.

WITH THAT BEING SAID.... Cabrera went on a huge tear to get his team into the playoffs. Has only missed 1 game and was a rock of consistency when the team around him floundered for much of the year.

Trout started slumping when it mattered most, didn't play a full season, and his team isn't going to the playoffs.

So if you want a computer to just pick the guy with the highest WAR to be the MVP... that's totally fine. It's logical and makes total sense. But then you shouldn't have voters/selectors... and as soon as you start weighing anecdotal and historical factors as measures of "success" Cabrera gets the vote.

Lax you are the man!

 

[Sherm Sticky]

Who do you think ends up having the better career?

Honestly, Cabrera. He is 29 and already has 10 seasons under his belt. If he got injured today he still probably would make the HOF. I'll never forget what he did when he was 19 years old in 2003. Him, Manny Ramirez and Pujols are the best hitters of their generation. Manny is tanted and Pujols might not be as clutch as Miguel.

As for Trout he is a freakin stud, but I haven't seen enough of him yet to say he will have a better career than a proven commodity.

 

[RuntheBall]

I understand what the stats say about Trout. I'm a huge stats guy.

WITH THAT BEING SAID.... Cabrera went on a huge tear to get his team into the playoffs. Has only missed 1 game and was a rock of consistency when the team around him floundered for much of the year.

Trout started slumping when it mattered most, didn't play a full season, and his team isn't going to the playoffs.

So if you want a computer to just pick the guy with the highest WAR to be the MVP... that's totally fine. It's logical and makes total sense. But then you shouldn't have voters/selectors... and as soon as you start weighing anecdotal and historical factors as measures of "success" Cabrera gets the vote.

Thats why I think this is so interesting. Though you could slant it the other way as well: Trout had the most impact of any single player (on his team) for the whole season- check the splits for LAA with/without Trout- while Cabrera has the stats (namely Avg, HR, RBI's)

Positives for each player (IMO)
Trout:
Sabermetric stats/ Non triple crown stats (Trout projects to 14th all time in runs) (defense included)* Note how it is a projection...
LAA's record with Trout vs. without him
Cabrera:
Triple Crown
Team made playoffs

 

[Kaneyoufeelit]

Manny is tanted and Pujols might not be as clutch as Miguel.

Pujols disagrees with you
Albert Pujols Hits 3 Home Runs! (Offical) [HD] - YouTube

 

[Ironman8]

Lax, I like your argument, except for the middle part. Trout set such an incredibly high bar during the summer that people are overexagerrating this "slump" at the end of the year. Over the past month he still hit .284, with a .402 OBP, 22 runs, 5 homers, and seven steals while still playing his fantastic D.

It is also not his fault he did not play a full season - if anything, that should help his argument and not hinder it. He was a revelation from the moment he came up, and jump started his team to the best record in the AL during his time on the team (Thanks Sherm for the clarification).

Finally, Trout not going to the playoffs while Carbera is really shouldn't decide anything. #1, as mentioned above, Trout has led his team to the best record in the league during his time in the majors. #2, the Angles HAVE A BETTER RECORD. It is not Trout's fault that his team plays in a tougher division, or that his pitching has been much poorer than anyone expected. The Tigers definitely do not make the playoffs without Cabrera, but the Angels do not have the better record or come anywhere close to contending without Trout. Period.

 

[IrishLax]

Lax, I like your argument, except for the middle part. Trout set such an incredibly high bar during the summer that people are overexagerrating this "slump" at the end of the year. Over the past month he still hit .284, with a .402 OBP, 22 runs, 5 homers, and seven steals while still playing his fantastic D.

It is also not his fault he did not play a full season - if anything, that should help his argument and not hinder it. He was a revelation from the moment he came up, and jump started his team to the best record in the AL during his time on the team (Thanks Sherm for the clarification).

Finally, Trout not going to the playoffs while Carbera is really shouldn't decide anything. #1, as mentioned above, Trout has led his team to the best record in the league during his time in the majors. #2, the Angles HAVE A BETTER RECORD. It is not Trout's fault that his team plays in a tougher division, or that his pitching has been much poorer than anyone expected. The Tigers definitely do not make the playoffs without Cabrera, but the Angels do not have the better record or come anywhere close to contending without Trout. Period.

Good points all-around. I can't disagree with a single thing you just said.

 

[GoldenIsThyFame]

Honestly, Cabrera. He is 29 and already has 10 seasons under his belt. If he got injured today he still probably would make the HOF. I'll never forget what he did when he was 19 years old in 2003. Him, Manny Ramirez and Pujols are the best hitters in their generation. Manny is tanted and Pujols might not be as clutch as Miguel.

As for Trout he is a freakin stud, but I haven't seen enough of him yet to say he will have a better career than a proven commodity.

This is my feeling as well. To me a lot of Trout's game is predicated on his speed and that tends to burn out a lot faster than a slugger hitting in the 3 or 4 spot his whole career. Bonds adjusted his game (via roids) to become that type of player. He wouldn't have had the career he had if he stayed the same player he was in 1990 when he hit 30 hrs and stole 50 bases.

 

[Sherm Sticky]

Lax, I like your argument, except for the middle part. Trout set such an incredibly high bar during the summer that people are overexagerrating this "slump" at the end of the year. Over the past month he still hit .284, with a .402 OBP, 22 runs, 5 homers, and seven steals while still playing his fantastic D.

It is also not his fault he did not play a full season - if anything, that should help his argument and not hinder it. He was a revelation from the moment he came up, and jump started his team to the best record in the AL during his time on the team (Thanks Sherm for the clarification).

Finally, Trout not going to the playoffs while Carbera is really shouldn't decide anything. #1, as mentioned above, Trout has led his team to the best record in the league during his time in the majors. #2, the Angles HAVE A BETTER RECORD. It is not Trout's fault that his team plays in a tougher division, or that his pitching has been much poorer than anyone expected. The Tigers definitely do not make the playoffs without Cabrera, but the Angels do not have the better record or come anywhere close to contending without Trout. Period.

Damn now I'm so confused...

To me it comes down to Miguel having his best season yet. He has been in the league for 10 years, hasn't won an MVP yet (been close) so I give him the nod.

 

[Ironman8]

I actually think this is the one year, where if it was possible, you have Co-MVPS. It's not just that it is a really tight race, but it's that both guys have had ALL-TIME GREAT years. You can't pick one without somewhat discounting what the other did, which is a major shame considering the type of maginficent seasons they both put together.

 

[Sherm Sticky]

This is my feeling as well. To me a lot of Trout's game is predicated on his speed and that tends to burn out a lot faster than a slugger hitting in the 3 or 4 spot his whole career. Bonds adjusted his game (via roids) to become that type of player. He wouldn't have had the career he had if he stayed the same player he was in 1990 when he hit 30 hrs and stole 50 bases.

Complete agree with you about the speed aspect declining faster than other aspects. Also, great comparison do Bonds early days in Pittsburgh.

 

[Irishnuke]

WAR is such a bullshiit stat. Not taking anything away from Triut because he had an awesome season, but Cabrera should win. Trout has more weapons around him. Three guys on the Angels have 90+ RBIs. Fielder is the only other Tiger with even 75 RBIs. Also, WAR is such a bullshiit stat. Anyone who thinks the Tigers would only win 7 fewer games without Cabrera is insane.

 

[Kaneyoufeelit]

WAR is such a bullshiit stat. Not taking anything away from Triut because he had an awesome season, but Cabrera should win. Trout has more weapons around him. Three guys on the Angels have 90+ RBIs. Fielder is the only other Tiger with even 75 RBIs. Also, WAR is such a bullshiit stat. Anyone who thinks the Tigers would only win 7 fewer games without Cabrera is insane.

Ok, please explain what is "bullshit" about WAR. Btw, speaking of BS stats, you're relying on the worst stat (except maybe W for a pitcher) in the game.

 

[RuntheBall]

WAR is such a bullshiit stat. Not taking anything away from Triut because he had an awesome season, but Cabrera should win. Trout has more weapons around him. Three guys on the Angels have 90+ RBIs. Fielder is the only other Tiger with even 75 RBIs. Also, WAR is such a bullshiit stat. Anyone who thinks the Tigers would only win 7 fewer games without Cabrera is insane.

Cabrera does have Prince Fielder batting behind him...
And Austin Jackson and Berry to get people on base...

Given Trout does have Pujols 2 spots behind him... but Albert was dead cold until Trout got there. Erick Aybar spent alot of the season in the 2 spot... not to frightening

Not saying Trout isnt surrounded by better guys, just that is closer than you let on IMO

 

[ndyeater]

gotta give it to cabrera

 

[jason_h537]

Who is more valuable to their team? I go with Cabrera

 

[notredomer23]

How can you not give it to Cabrera? League leader in homeruns, batting average, and runs batted in, arguably the three most important stats, and you are not gonna give it to him?

I like Trout, but it would be horrible to give it to anyone but Cabrera

 

[NoJusticeNoPeace]

When the Angels called up Trout they had the 2nd worst record in baseball. Since then they have had the best record. Leader in WAR and a much better defensive player than Cabrera.

 

[NoJusticeNoPeace]

How can you not give it to Cabrera? League leader in homeruns, batting average, and runs batted in, arguably the three most important stats, and you are not gonna give it to him?

I like Trout, but it would be horrible to give it to anyone but Cabrera

RBI is a stat that mostly depends on luck of who is on base, batting average is not as important as on base percentage. The most useful offensive stats are home runs, OBP, K:BB ratio, and slugging.

 

[Kaneyoufeelit]

How can you not give it to Cabrera? League leader in homeruns, batting average, and runs batted in, arguably the three most important stats, and you are not gonna give it to him?

I like Trout, but it would be horrible to give it to anyone but Cabrera

The RBI stat is not important

 

[gkIrish]

Wading through a crowded MLB awards field - Grantland


Pretty good article supporting Trout's case

 

[gkautz10]

I have had this argument for the last few weeks. I understand that Cabrera is going to win the first triple crown in 45 years, and that his team made it to the playoffs. However, I find what Trout is doing more impressive because of his age. If he is doing what he is doing this year at Cabrera's age, he will likely be a contender year in and year out for the triple crown. Plus I think Cabrera is a dirt bag of a person.

 

[gkIrish]

I have had this argument for the last few weeks. I understand that Cabrera is going to win the first triple crown in 45 years, and that his team made it to the playoffs. However, I find what Trout is doing more impressive because of his age. If he is doing what he is doing this year at Cabrera's age, he will likely be a contender year in and year out for the triple crown. Plus I think Cabrera is a dirt bag of a person.

Just curious, for what reason(s)?

 

[jason_h537]

Just curious, for what reason(s)?

For real, has he done something I am unaware of or is this just a personal opinion?