So... I've dipped my toe in a Vegan diet

[woolybug25]

Atkins died after smacking open his head shoveling. He did have a MI at age 71, and survived.

Heart attack
Atkins suffered a cardiac arrest in April 2002, leading many of his critics to point to this episode as proof of the inherent dangers in the consumption of high levels of saturated fat associated with the Atkins diet. In numerous interviews, however, Atkins stated that his heart attack was not the result of poor diet, but was rather caused by a chronic infection.[9] Atkins' personal physician and cardiologist, Dr. Patrick Fratellone, confirmed this assertion, saying "We have been treating this condition, cardiomyopathy, for almost two years. Clearly, [Atkins'] own nutritional protocols have left him, at the age of 71, with an extraordinarily healthy cardiovascular system". According to reports on CNN at the time of Atkins' convalescence, Dr. Clyde Yancy, a cardiologist at the University of Texas Southwestern Medical Center in Dallas and a member of the American Heart Association's national board of directors reported that "despite the obvious irony, I believe there is a total disconnect between [Atkins'] cardiac arrest and the health approach he popularizes".[14]
[edit]Death

On April 8, 2003, at age 72, a day after a major snowstorm in New York, Atkins slipped on an icy pavement, suffering severe head trauma. He spent nine days in intensive care before dying on April 17, 2003, from complications from his head injury.[15] Atkins' work inspired a whole new tendency in dietetics, and many companies released low-carb diets and low-carb foods.[13]

Whatever... he had a heart attack either way, despite being the founder of the "heart healthy diet".

I prefer paleo.

How many carb-oriented miracle diets are there now anyways? Every couple years someone renames it and remarkets their brand of it. It has it's dangers too, as evidenced in the following links:

What Are The Dangers Of The Paleo Diet? | LIVESTRONG.COM
Paleo diet dangers – 180 Degree Health
Is the Paleo diet healthy? - CNN.com

It's a fad diet, plain and simple. Veganism and Vegetable-based diets have been around since the beginning of time and are more heavily practiced in the healthiest countries in the world. Furthermore, none of these fad diets do anything to further the moral causes of this lifestyle change for me. People even talk about "free range" or "hormone free", but most people have no idea what that even means or what the limits are to qualify for it. Simply put, unless you are raising chickens in your back yard, you have no idea how your meat got on your table. The video below gives my opinion on how farming needs to change, but if anybody thinks that this is a true depiction of our current "free range" and "hormone free" standards, then they are fooling themselves.

<iframe src="http://player.vimeo.com/video/32076572?title=0&byline=0&portrait=0&color=ffffff" width="500" height="281" frameborder="0" webkitAllowFullScreen mozallowfullscreen allowFullScreen></iframe> <p><a href="http://vimeo.com/32076572">Back To The Start - Chipotle Commercial</a> from <a href="http://vimeo.com/user7320896">LETTER EYE MEDIA</a> on <a href="http://vimeo.com">Vimeo</a>.</p>

 

[PLACforever]

Ketogenic Diet Resource

Just sharing the knowledge dude. Like I said in my original post, I wasn't trying to be a prick.
Either way, props for having the motivation to go out and change.

True story about cow manure/greenhouse gases, did you get that from Freakanomics? Love those books.

My favorite is the epilogue of SuperFreak (about the monkeys)

 

[IrishJayhawk]

I've been a vegetarian for 10 years. Go for it, man.

 

[WaveDomer]

Great video PLAC.
The egg is about as close to the perfect food as you can get!

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/NhkdLHSKo9s" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

 

[irishpat183]

Good for you! Of course I can't join you on your journey being a veggie. I need my animal protein. (soy is bad for men...FYI...ever heard of man boobs?)

Chicken, fish, and lean meat like Turkey. Very rarely do I enduldge in redmeat. But we still have a very health diet. We eat no junk food, and I haven't had a soda in years(there may have been few along the way, but you get the point).

But like you said, great point, we need to learn to eat to feed our bodies, not emotions.


Along with working out (I recommend mornings if possible) a health diet has made me feel 1 million times better.

I'm less of a jerk on IE! HOORAY!

 

[fitz_bu47]

If Rocky does it, you know it's good.

Wooly--I am actually very educated on what the terms "organic" and "free range" mean, and the difference in marketing and actual higher quality foods. (Not saying you were meaning me, but I'm sure you are right and some people get suckered.) I have done the research to know where my family's food comes from. Another reason why farmer's markets are a great place to shop.

Also, I am not sure you can call Paleo a fad when it's based on how people ate for a LONG time, before modern farming began. A diet based on vegetables, fruits, seeds, (high quality) meat, and no processed food doesn't seem like a fad to me. Eating nothing but cabbage soup is a fad diet in my opinion.

Again, more power to you on the whole Vegan thing, go for it my man! Just offering another healthy alternative for us carnivores!

 

[irishpat183]

If Rocky does it, you know it's good.

Wooly--I am actually very educated on what the terms "organic" and "free range" mean, and the difference in marketing and actual higher quality foods. (Not saying you were meaning me, but I'm sure you are right and some people get suckered.) I have done the research to know where my family's food comes from. Another reason why farmer's markets are a great place to shop.

Also, I am not sure you can call Paleo a fad when it's based on how people ate for a LONG time, before modern farming began. A diet based on vegetables, fruits, seeds, (high quality) meat, and no processed food doesn't seem like a fad to me. Eating nothing but cabbage soup is a fad diet in my opinion.

Again, more power to you on the whole Vegan thing, go for it my man! Just offering another healthy alternative for us carnivores!

So that's what we've been doing? Thanks for the info!

 

[fitz_bu47]

Haha, Pat, no unfortunately most of us have not been eating like that. Our hunter/gatherer ancestors did, and were much healthier for it....Although their life expectancies were still quite a bit lower w/ the lions eating them, no medical interventions, etc. etc.

 

[irishpat183]

Haha, Pat, no unfortunately most of us have not been eating like that. Our hunter/gatherer ancestors did, and were much healthier for it....Although their life expectancies were still quite a bit lower w/ the lions eating them, no medical interventions, etc. etc.

For the record I've tried eating as much kill meat as I can get my hands on. Venison, birds/ducks, turkey...etc. Me and some buddies actually are all going in on hunting our own food. When season opens, I'll hopefully take down enough to feed us till next season. Bought a new deep freezer and everything.

Taking it seriously!


I'll keep you posted.

 

[IrishJayhawk]

Good for you! Of course I can't join you on your journey being a veggie. I need my animal protein. (soy is bad for men...FYI...ever heard of man boobs?)

Not necessarily so.

Is Soy Bad For Men's Health? | LIVESTRONG.COM

Is Soy Bad for Men's Health? | Healthy Eating | SF Gate

And it's good for heart and prostate health. I do try to avoid processed soy though. Stick mostly to edamame and tofu.

 

[woolybug25]

If Rocky does it, you know it's good.

Wooly--I am actually very educated on what the terms "organic" and "free range" mean, and the difference in marketing and actual higher quality foods. (Not saying you were meaning me, but I'm sure you are right and some people get suckered.) I have done the research to know where my family's food comes from. Another reason why farmer's markets are a great place to shop.

Also, I am not sure you can call Paleo a fad when it's based on how people ate for a LONG time, before modern farming began. A diet based on vegetables, fruits, seeds, (high quality) meat, and no processed food doesn't seem like a fad to me. Eating nothing but cabbage soup is a fad diet in my opinion.

Again, more power to you on the whole Vegan thing, go for it my man! Just offering another healthy alternative for us carnivores!

If you are indeed very educated on where you get your meat from then you are probably aware of the fact that a lot (most) organic milk sold in this country comes from pregnent cows? They do this in order to skirt the hormone restrictions they can give the cows and still be "organic". See, pregnant cows naturally produce hormones, so they pair that with the already existing "loopholes" of hormones and bam.... high milk production and the same amount of hormones in your "organic milk" as your regular old milk. These same cows stay pregnent the majority of their adult lives until their death. They live in tight quarters surrounded by their own $hit and in an constant pain without painkillers... after all, the painkillers would make your milk not organic.

Many organic and free-range farms cram thousands of animals together in sheds or mud-filled lots to increase profits, just as factory farms do, and the animals often suffer through the same mutilations—such as debeaking, dehorning, and castration without painkillers—that occur on factory farms.

This is the same food you buy at your "farmer's market". Like I said before, unless it's being raised in your back yard, you really don't know what treatment the animals recieved.

To your second point about Paleo, it is not just a "diet based off diets of pre-farming humans". Homo Sapiens were planting their own food before they even started making fire. Early humans didn't even have canines because the earliest humans were herbivores. The invention of fire is what most scientist credit us becoming omnivores.

But that is not even my point. The Paleo diet is just this year's version of a carb-oriented fad diet. It's not about eating all natural foods. It's about eating simple foods and eating good carbs vs bad carbs. Just like South Beach, just like Atkins. These diets have not only been seen as difficult to make into a lifestyle change, but quite unhealthy if you cannot. Veggie based diets have been around since the dawn of time. I highly doubt cavemen even knew what a carb was.

 

[peoriairish]

All I can say is yuck.

Good for you for trying to change your health habits for the better but I could never ever do without meat. It's all about portion control for me.

On that note, deer season opens next week. See y'all in the sticks.

 

[Ultimate Penn St. Hater]

I'm totally not kidding with this. My wife has been getting on me to lose some weight and I simply am being sick of feeling like crap all of the time. I listened to a great interview with Arian Foster (vegan) the other weekend and he talked about how a switch needs to turn on in your mind where you "eat to nurish your body, not your emotions". That hit me hard. It's absolutely true. In this country, every holiday or gathering is centered around food. So Americans have been programmed to eat out of comfort instead of nourishment.

So I told my wife that I would dip my toe in this diet for the following reasons:

1) To get healthy
2) To do my part to stave off commercial animal farming
3) To do my part to lower greenhouse gases (cow poo is a larger portion of our country's carbon footprint than automobiles.).
4) Because she is doing it and I want to support her

So I started at the beginning of the week and it was pretty tough at first. No milk, no eggs no cheese. I also am constantly looking at labels to not only make sure that there are no animal products, but also to find foods that are high in things like protein, calcium and Vitamin D which are things veggies generally lack. These were the hardest, but now (just like Arian Foster promised) I feel lighter, happier and have WAY more energy after just over one week.

Here is what I had for lunch:

a six inch veggie delight with all of the veggies (sans devil tomatoes) with oil/vinegar, salt/pepper, and sweet onion sauce. I had a side of apple slices and a diet coke. The whole meal was delicious, filling, cheap and under 400 calories.

So... are there any vegan diet folks on here that want to share some of their meals? Anybody want to tell me i'm retarded?

I wish you the best of luck. You're a better man than me. I wouldn't make it through an entire day.

 

[Old Man Mike]

I shouldn't bother to enter into this I guess, because I sense some strangely strong feelings here. I'll just say this from the academic studies point-of-view: Whereas it is probably true that some modern profiteers have commandeered the term "palaeolithic diet" to push something which is in reality a fad diet, this is not what the term originally meant. The term arises from palaeontological studies of pre-grain agriculture settlements' spoil piles, and analysis of the types of foods indicated therein. These substances are just the list that Fitz is listing. The anthropologists then chipped in with observations of the diets used by the dwindling numbers of hunter-gatherer tribes still extant, and found that the two diets matched. The theory of the pre-grain-dominated Palaeolithic diet, thereby, seemed pretty solidly supported. This diet pre-dated the great grains-growing revolution of Mesopotamia and shortly Egypt, c. 6000 b.c. An added fact of interest that the studies then noticed was that the skeletal remains of the peoples shifted to a smaller more fragile-looking human frame.

To reiterate what is being stated here:
a]. The actual Palaeolithic diet was not a carbohydrate-loaded diet and in fact employed only complex carbohydrates with natural fruits, vegetables, nuts/seeds, and lean game meat.
b]. What is claimed by modern entrepreneurs seeking to profit off the term, I have no idea.
c]. Once high level grain production occurred, and civilizations then began eating a loaded carbohydrate diet based on those grains, the human stature appears to have regressed for several centuries [all the way through the renaissance].
d]. None of this is a knock on vegetarian diets nor Vegan diets. Neither they nor the true Palaeolithic diet feature the deadly elements of modern eating, and, assuming the vegan plans well in terms of protein consumption, should all accomplish the same end.

The human stomach and liver don't give a hoot where the bionutrients came from prior to the cook getting hold of them; they care that the nutrients are in the right amounts and not accompanied by excessive fats, and fast metabolism sugars. All proteins are broken down in the intestines to the same amino acid units, whereupon they are absorbed, sent to the liver and remade into the proteins that we need. What, literally, "kills us", are the excesses of fats and uncomplicated sugars.


As to the issues of modern farming practices: I taught Environmental Studies for 20 years. I am well aware of the atrocity that hides away there as meat-hungry Americans avert their greedy eyes in our typical who-gives-a-damm? attitude. The palaeolithic diet has nothing to do with modern farming practices. One of my best buddies has been in the forefront of the sustainable agriculture movement in Michigan since the stone age. He'd be delirious if he thought that some combination of palaeolithic diet and vegetarianism would supplant modern habits. And I have an ace hunter brother-in-law who, if he dedicated himself to it, could live very close to a palaeolithic diet on just game and local gardening and co-ops. Another friend almost got run out of town [SWMinnesots] for campaigning to stop a pork feedlot farm --- he won, but wasn't popular.

And I can assure everyone that MANY organic growers are VERY careful, and soulful, about their vocations. I know quite a few and some are friends. Some I even taught.

 

[TerryTate]

I just ordered a 1/4 Cow from a farmer in IL.

 

[irishfanjho15]

I just ordered a 1/4 Cow from a farmer in IL.

To punch while it hangs in a meat locker??

 

[Bluto]

I'm not a Vegan but I have dated a few and dont eat much dairy. Anyhow, Silk makes a good soy milk creamer for coffee. Tofutti's are killer soy based ice cream sandwhich's. If you don't like soy milk, try almond milk. Veganise is a good mayonaise substitute.

Tofu in stir fry is delicious. You need to cook it properly though. Let it drain for awhile so it gets most of the moisture out then lightly fry. Add some Saracha, Brags amino acids (soy sauce substitue) and brown rice and you got yourself a pretty good meal.

Throw in some tye dye and a drum circle and you'll be feeling the Zen maaan!

I'll ask around for some other recipes. Oh, you're going to have to buy a Crass or Fugazi CD too to make it official.

 

[woolybug25]

I just ordered a 1/4 Cow from a farmer in IL.

This is how I previously bought beef. I had a friend that has a farm on the western slope of CO that serious about the ethical treatment of his livestock. Me and a few friends all went in on it, met him for a day of fishing, then drove back with a chest freezer full of meat.

If you do this, I encourage you to tour their facility to see how everything operates first. But if they do things up to your personal standards, then its by far the best way to buy meat in regards to price, quality, health and ethics.

Well done, sir.

 

[TerryTate]

1 or 2 @ 3 Lb. Chuck Roast
2 Chuck Steaks
1 or 2 @ 3 Lb. Arm Roasts
2 or 3 Lbs. of Stew Beef
2 Pkgs. Short Ribs at approximately 2.5 Lbs. per Pkg.
2 Neck Soup Bones
2 Shank Soup Bones
About 7 Lbs. of Rib Steaks or Rib Roasts
Approximately ten steaks total divided amongst the Sirloin, T-Bone, & Porterhouse @ 3/4” thick.
5 Lbs. of Top Round that can be cut as Roasts, Steaks, or London Broil
1 or 2 @ 3 Lb Rolled Rump Roasts
1 @ 3 Lb. Sirloin Tip Roast
8 Cube Steaks
Approximately 40 Lbs. of Ground Beef

 

[woolybug25]

You killed this cow with your bare hands.... didn't ya....

 

[BGIF]

1 or 2 @ 3 Lb. Chuck Roast
2 Chuck Steaks
1 or 2 @ 3 Lb. Arm Roasts
2 or 3 Lbs. of Stew Beef
2 Pkgs. Short Ribs at approximately 2.5 Lbs. per Pkg.
2 Neck Soup Bones
2 Shank Soup Bones
About 7 Lbs. of Rib Steaks or Rib Roasts
Approximately ten steaks total divided amongst the Sirloin, T-Bone, & Porterhouse @ 3/4” thick.
5 Lbs. of Top Round that can be cut as Roasts, Steaks, or London Broil
1 or 2 @ 3 Lb Rolled Rump Roasts
1 @ 3 Lb. Sirloin Tip Roast
8 Cube Steaks
Approximately 40 Lbs. of Ground Beef

Just enough to feed Terry Tate for a week.

 

[johnnykillz]

To all of the posters above me:



You parseys. America wasn't founded on a vegan diet nor with patchouli smelling candles burning in the breeze.

Lift weights and run to stave off heart disease and high cholesterol.

That is all.

Grade A Angus Beef is how to stay fit.

Beef: it's what's for dinner...

 

[Buster Bluth]

And I can assure everyone that MANY organic growers are VERY careful, and soulful, about their vocations. I know quite a few and some are friends. Some I even taught.

My sister graduated from Denison and then went on to the Culinary Institute of America (then got Lymphoma before she graduated, and beat it) and afterward decided to start an organic farm.

She is now the largest (maybe even only) organic farm in Toledo's farmers' market scene. She started on two acres, and is now in the process of transitioning seven more acres into organic soil. It's going to be pretty cool.

My brother and I built two greenhouses:

And built this mobile chicken coop:

Bought the most beastly rototiller in the world from Italy:

And BOOM! Organic produce everywhere:

She now runs one of the farmers' markets and is climbing that ladder. The movement is taking over, that's for sure. How can't it? The first time I tried a REAL egg, I was blown away. Like the store-bought stuff is just useless. And the tomatoes?! HOLY HELL.

Then, we bought some pigs:

Life is good on my sister's organic farm.

 

[johnnykillz]

^
Does the rototiller run off of the sun?

If not, the spent hydrocarbons are probably leaching into the soil...

And the plants may be chemically compromised from tainted CO2...

Just sayin'...

 

[johnnykillz]

Of course the sun could cause melanoma.

 

[Buster Bluth]

^
Does the rototiller run off of the sun?

It's a hell-spun mixture of the bones of fornicators, and the sinew of thieves and gluttons!

....it, uh, it runs on gasoline.

 

[Bluto]

It's a hell-spun mixture of the bones of fornicators, and the sinew of thieves and gluttons!

....it, uh, it runs on gasoline.

If you wanted to get cray cray you could distill some corn liquor and make ethanol. Oh yeah, liquor is completely vegan too.

How bout that bye week?

 

[johnnykillz]

It's a hell-spun mixture of the bones of fornicators, and the sinew of thieves and gluttons!

....it, uh, it runs on gasoline.

It would run a year on my balls alone.

A lifetime on my cack.

 

[woolybug25]

That's seriously cool, Buster. With my next house, I plan on doing something similar on a smaller scale.

Looks like they custom built that greenhouse? Any insight on that?

 

[Irish Houstonian]

Arian Foster's vegan, and is doing ok so far. (Of course, he's also got the $ for the boatload of supplements, which also doesn't hurt...)