ND & Michigan done after 2014

[irishfanjho15]

To claim ND is the GREATEST program in college football history is a little ridiculous, no?

You are tied with Michigan at #2 in national championships, #3 in all-time victories and #2 in all-time winning percentage. So what exactly is ND #1 in? If it's individual accolades then I don't want to hear it because football is a team sport.

As we've talked about numerous times, ND could claim 21 National Championships if we claimed the same type of titles Michigan and Alabama does. Only trail Michigan in winning percentage while having played 11 less seasons of college football (did not have a team in 1890 or 1891) and no bowl games until 1970 (with the exception of the Rose Bowl in 1925). That's 50 less games played than Michigan. Individuals are only accented because of their teammates.

And thank God that anti-Semitic and anti-Catholic Fielding Yost is dead.

 

[woolybug25]

As we've talked about numerous times, ND could claim 21 National Championships if we claimed the same type of titles Michigan and Alabama does. Only trail Michigan in winning percentage while having played 11 less seasons of college football (did not have a team in 1890 or 1891) and no bowl games until 1970 (with the exception of the Rose Bowl in 1925). That's 50 less games played than Michigan. Individuals are only accented because of their teammates.

And thank God that anti-Semitic and anti-Catholic Fielding Yost is dead.

Actually, we could claim 23 if we did it how Bama does it (claim any title awarded by any poll). We could claim 21 if we claim how scUM does (any title claimed by any poll that was an undefeated season).

We claim titles we actually won. Which is 11.

 

[irishfanjho15]

Actually, we could claim 23 if we did it how Bama does it (claim any title awarded by any poll). We could claim 21 if we claim how scUM does (any title claimed by any poll that was an undefeated season).

We claim titles we actually won. Which is 11.

Even better lol.

 

[Wolverine1997]

National poll championships (1936–present)
The following table contains the National Championships that have been recognized by the final AP or Coaches' Poll.
Alabama 9 1961, 1964, 1965 (AP), 1973 (Coaches), 1978 (AP), 1979, 1992, 2009, 2011
Notre Dame 8 1943, 1946, 1947, 1949, 1966, 1973 (AP), 1977, 1988
Oklahoma 7 1950, 1955, 1956, 1974 (AP), 1975, 1985, 2000
USC 7 1962, 1967, 1972, 1974 (Coaches), 1978 (Coaches), 2003 (AP), 2004 (AP)*
Miami 5 1983, 1987, 1989, 1991 (AP), 2001
Nebraska 5 1970 (AP), 1971, 1994, 1995, 1997 (Coaches)
Ohio State 5 1942, 1954 (AP), 1957 (Coaches), 1968, 2002
Minnesota 4 1936, 1940, 1941, 1960
Texas 4 1963, 1969, 1970 (Coaches), 2005
Florida 3 1996, 2006, 2008
LSU 3 1958, 2003 (Coaches), 2007
Army 2 1944, 1945
Auburn 2 1957 (AP), 2010
Florida State 2 1993, 1999
Michigan 2 1948, 1997 (AP)
Michigan State 2 1952, 1965 (Coaches)
Penn State 2 1982, 1986
Pittsburgh 2 1937, 1976
Tennessee 2 1951, 1998
BYU 1 1984
Clemson 1 1981
Colorado 1 1990 (AP)
Georgia 1 1980
Georgia Tech 1 1990 (Coaches)
Maryland 1 1953
Syracuse 1 1959
TCU 1 1938
Texas A&M 1 1939
UCLA 1 1954 (Coaches)
Washington 1

That's great. But just because they happened before polls, doesn't mean it doesn't matter. The school claims 11.

1901: 11-0-0 (4-0-0 Western Conference) Outscored opponents 550-0
1902: 11-0-0 (4-0-0 Western Conference)
1903: 11-0-1 (3-0-1 Western Conference) Tied Minnesota who was a power back then
1904: 10-0-0 (2-0-0 Western Conference)
1918: 5-0-0 (2-0-0 Western Conference) Season shortened due to WWI
1923: 8-0-0 (4-0-0 Western Conference)
1932: 8-0-0 (6-0-0 Western Conference)
1933: 7-0-1 (6-0-1 Western Conference) 0-0 with Minnesota
1947: 10-0-0 (6-0-0 Western Conference)^ Beat USC 49-0 in Rose Bowl
1948: 9-0-0 (6-0-0 Western Conference) Unanimous national champion
1997: 12-0 (8-0 Big Ten)

The goal at Michigan has ALWAYS been to win the B1G and go to the Rose Bowl. That's what Bo preached and did the best. He always said "you can be the best team, but you have to be voted the best team. That's why it's called a mythical national championship."

And that's what Brady Hoke has pounded into the team's head. 42 B1G Championships, the Rose Bowl logo and all of that good stuff is painted all around the football buildings.

And thank God that anti-Semitic and anti-Catholic Fielding Yost is dead.

**** you. Seriously. **** you. And I'm a Catholic.

 

[greyhammer90]

That's great. But just because they happened before polls, doesn't mean it doesn't matter. The school claims 11.

1901: 11-0-0 (4-0-0 Western Conference) Outscored opponents 550-0
1902: 11-0-0 (4-0-0 Western Conference)
1903: 11-0-1 (3-0-1 Western Conference) Tied Minnesota who was a power back then
1904: 10-0-0 (2-0-0 Western Conference)
1918: 5-0-0 (2-0-0 Western Conference) Season shortened due to WWI
1923: 8-0-0 (4-0-0 Western Conference)
1932: 8-0-0 (6-0-0 Western Conference)
1933: 7-0-1 (6-0-1 Western Conference) 0-0 with Minnesota
1947: 10-0-0 (6-0-0 Western Conference)^ Beat USC 49-0 in Rose Bowl
1948: 9-0-0 (6-0-0 Western Conference) Unanimous national champion
1997: 12-0 (8-0 Big Ten)

The goal at Michigan has ALWAYS been to win the B1G and go to the Rose Bowl. That's what Bo preached and did the best. He always said "you can be the best team, but you have to be voted the best team. That's why it's called a mythical national championship.

And that's what Brady Hoke has pounded into the team's head. 42 B1G Championships, the Rose Bowl logo and all of that good stuff is painted all around the football buildings.

College Football Data Warehouse recognized national champions

College Football Data Warehouse (CFBDW) is an online resource and database that has collected and researched information on college football and national championship selections.


School Championships Seasons
Princeton 26 1869, 1870, 1872, 1873, 1874, 1875, 1877, 1878, 1879, 1880, 1881, 1884, 1885, 1886, 1889, 1893, 1896, 1898, 1899, 1903, 1906, 1911, 1920, 1922, 1933, 1935
Yale 18 1874, 1876, 1877, 1880, 1881, 1882, 1883, 1884, 1886, 1887, 1888, 1891, 1892, 1894, 1900, 1907, 1909, 1927
Alabama 13 1925, 1926, 1930, 1934, 1961, 1964, 1965, 1973, 1978, 1979, 1992, 2009, 2011
Notre Dame 13 1919, 1924, 1929, 1930, 1943, 1946, 1947, 1949, 1964, 1966, 1973, 1977, 1988
Michigan 11 1901, 1902, 1903, 1904, 1918, 1923, 1932, 1933, 1947, 1948, 1997
USC 10 1928, 1931, 1932, 1962, 1967, 1972, 1974, 1978, 2003, 2004
Pittsburgh 9 1910, 1915, 1916, 1918, 1929, 1931, 1936, 1937, 1976
Harvard 8 1875, 1890, 1898, 1899, 1910, 1912, 1913, 1919
Ohio State 7 1942, 1954, 1957, 1961, 1968, 1970, 2002
Oklahoma 7 1950, 1955, 1956, 1974, 1975, 1985, 2000
Minnesota 6 1934, 1935, 1936, 1940, 1941, 1960
Penn 6 1894, 1895, 1897, 1904, 1907, 1908
Army 5 1914, 1916, 1944, 1945, 1946
Miami 5 1983, 1987, 1989, 1991, 2001
Nebraska 5 1970, 1971, 1994, 1995, 1997
California 4 1920, 1921, 1922, 1937
Georgia Tech 4 1917, 1928, 1952, 1990
Illinois 4 1914, 1919, 1923, 1927
LSU 4 1908, 1958, 2003, 2007
Michigan St 4 1951, 1952, 1965, 1966
Penn State 4 1911, 1912, 1982, 1986
Tennessee 4 1938, 1950, 1951, 1998
Texas 4 1963, 1969, 1970, 2005
Auburn 3 1913, 1957, 2010
Cornell 3 1915, 1921, 1922
Florida 3 1996, 2006, 2008
Lafayette 3 1896, 1921, 1926
Florida State 2 1993, 1999
Georgia 2 1942, 1980
Mississippi 2 1960, 1962
Texas A&M 2 1919, 1939
Arkansas 1 1964
Boston College 1 1940
BYU 1 1984
Chicago 1 1905
Clemson 1 1981
Colorado 1 1990
Dartmouth 1 1925
Iowa 1 1958
Maryland 1 1953
SMU 1 1935
Stanford 1 1926
Syracuse 1 1959
TCU 1 1938
UCLA 1 1954
Washington 1 1991

Ok. We'll do it your way then. 13-11.

 

[irishfanjho15]

**** you. Seriously. **** you.

Seriously Mods this isn't ban worthy? This Wal-Martian is allowed to come on here and provoke our posters in the name of Michigan Football while we are losing good ND posters? This is ridiculous.

 

[Wolverine1997]

Seriously Mods this isn't ban worthy? This Wal-Martian is allowed to come on here and provoke our posters in the name of Michigan Football while we are losing good ND posters? This is ridiculous.

You deserved that for making a comment like that. That was really uncalled for.

 

[woolybug25]

That's great. But just because they happened before polls, doesn't mean it doesn't matter. The school claims 11.

1901: 11-0-0 (4-0-0 Western Conference) Outscored opponents 550-0
1902: 11-0-0 (4-0-0 Western Conference)
1903: 11-0-1 (3-0-1 Western Conference) Tied Minnesota who was a power back then
1904: 10-0-0 (2-0-0 Western Conference)
1918: 5-0-0 (2-0-0 Western Conference) Season shortened due to WWI
1923: 8-0-0 (4-0-0 Western Conference)
1932: 8-0-0 (6-0-0 Western Conference)
1933: 7-0-1 (6-0-1 Western Conference) 0-0 with Minnesota
1947: 10-0-0 (6-0-0 Western Conference)^ Beat USC 49-0 in Rose Bowl
1948: 9-0-0 (6-0-0 Western Conference) Unanimous national champion
1997: 12-0 (8-0 Big Ten)

Again, that is every undefeated season that anybody had you ranked #1. That is not how other teams do it, nor is it even consistent with your argument about the amount of titles from other teams. For instance, under this same brand of claiming. Notre Dame has 21.

The goal at Michigan has ALWAYS been to win the B1G and go to the Rose Bowl. That's what Bo preached and did the best. He always said "you can be the best team, but you have to be voted the best team. That's why it's called a mythical national championship.

First of all, how sad is it that your first goal is to win a conference vs an actual championship? I'm sure that was Bo's mantra... considering he never actually won a championship.

**** you. Seriously. **** you.

Yost was an amazing coach that dominated college football. But history clearly shows that he was an anti-semite that didn't exclude catholics from the long list of people he hated. Sorry if that hurts your feelings, but it is true.

 

[irishfanjho15]

You deserved that for making a comment like that. That was really uncalled for.

No it is a historically true statement about his hatred of Jews and Catholics. This is world is better without racists and bigots.

 

[NDHoosier101]

Keep playing Purdue, but stop playing Michigan? This is a bad ****ing joke.

The game means a lot to both the school and students. Not nationally, but nothing is better than having bragging rights over your neighbor, friends, and that guy you used to go to school with, that's what the purdouche rivalry is all about IMO.

 

[Patulski]

I don't mind this, unless we replace them with Duke/USF/Wake etc and water down our schedule. The UM series has really produced some great games and has national interest. It would have been even more fun to watch if we both return to being Top 10 powers again.

 

[IrishLax]

Ok. We'll do it your way then. 13-11.

Exactly. Pick your rule set or criteria... ND has more. The end.

 

[RallySonsOfND]

Seriously walmart1997, GTFO.

 

[Wolverine1997]

No it is a historically true statement about his hatred of Jews and Catholics. This is world is better without racists and bigots.

So you want everyone dead who may have been raised that way? He was the son of a Confederate soldier.

He also was from a different time period. I give him a pass with that information being taken into account and I can forgive him. I'm a Catholic and nobody is perfect.

 

[clashmore_mike]

Why are you still here?

 

[woolybug25]

So you want everyone dead who may have been raised that way? He was the son of a Confederate soldier.

He also was from a different time period. I give him a pass with that information being taken into account and I can forgive him. I'm a Catholic and nobody is perfect.

So we are suppose to forgive a guy that single handedly tried to ruin our football program because of his racist beliefs? As I said, no on here will try to tell you that he wasn't an amazing coach. Ty Cobb was an amazing baseball player too, but they were both racists and bigots.

Go read the history between your program and ours on the previous page that I posted. It's long, but its worth a read. Michigan has been an adversary of ours for reasons off the field way more than on.

 

[Irish Houstonian]

Holy hell -- feed the troll much guys?

 

[Wolverine1997]

So we are suppose to forgive a guy that single handedly tried to ruin our football program because of his racist beliefs? As I said, no on here will try to tell you that he wasn't an amazing coach. Ty Cobb was an amazing baseball player too, but they were both racists.

Go read the history between your program and ours on the previous page that I posted. It's long, but its worth a read. Michigan has been an adversary of ours for reasons off the field way more than on.

I realize that Yost had racist tendencies. Go look the story of Willis Ward up. But to make a comment like that is going to get a rebuttal from me every time.

Ironically, we created ND's program so as much as it's thought of that Michigan has done harm to it, we started it.

Back on topic with my last post on this thread. It's sad to see a great rivalry end but I'm glad Michigan will see new exciting matchups. Maybe the two will cross paths again someday.

 

[clashmore_mike]

Bye

 

[Buster Bluth]

During Fielding Yost's tenure as coach several African-American students joined the football team, but records indicate that none of them ever saw game action and only one earned even a "reserve letter". Some reports attribute the de facto segregation of the football team to racism on the part of Yost, who was the son of a Confederate soldier.

Sounds like a real awesome dude...

 

[IrishCat]

I will miss the game vs Michigan. I figure sometime down the road the game will resume from public/alumni demand... You know, kinda like the "New Coke" tactic. It's been a good series since the late 70's when I first became aware of football in my early teens. I can see where there is a certain reasoning to drop the M game due to having an easier path to a perfect and/or a 1 loss season... why have one more obstacle? Actually, if it were me, I would have dropped the MSU or Purdue game. You don't gain anything playing another team in Indiana... And the M game is obviously more high profile than the MSU game. Ehhh...

 

[HereComeTheIrish]

I realize that Yost had racist tendencies. Go look the story of Willis Ward up. But to make a comment like that is going to get a rebuttal from me every time.

Ironically, we created ND's program so as much as it's thought of that Michigan has done harm to it, we started it.

Back on topic with my last post on this thread. It's sad to see a great rivalry end but I'm glad Michigan will see new exciting matchups. Maybe the two will cross paths again someday.

If this doesn't lead to a ban on its own merit, I don't know what will. lmao

 

[RallySonsOfND]

Glad to see Wooly made some progress with Walmart1997, he changed his User Title to

"I LOVE ND FOOTBALL"

Ah progress.

 

[ulukinatme]

Ironically, we created ND's program so as much as it's thought of that Michigan has done harm to it, we started it.

Whoh, whoh, whoh! I'll credit Michigan for bringing football to Notre Dame's campus first, but it's safe to say that it would have come there eventually. Furthermore, Michigan may have had the biggest hand in blackballing Notre Dame from the Western Conference/ancient B1G, but that doesn't mean that they "created" Notre Dame's program. It means that they didn't want to lose and they quit scheduling the Irish, so Notre Dame found a way to go Independant, go national, and become a powerhouse until the early 90s. Pardon my lack of a better analogy, but saying that Michigan created ND's program is like saying Hitler/Japan brought about the Atom Bomb because of their war-mongering.

 

[phork]

Dave Brandon does not want ND on the schedule anymore.

He sees them as a brick tied to our ankle. His goal is to bring teams like the LSU, Oklahoma etc in for a home and home. I don't think we'll see Michigan playing in any more neutral sites game other than conference title games and bowl games.

Looks like we are seeing the third long break in the rivalry. 1910-1941, 1944-1977 and now 2015 and beyond.

A brick? Outside of OSU its the biggest game on your sched. So Brandon's goal is to bring in LSU, Oklahoma and teams of that calibre to stomp a mud hole in your ***, over playing a competitive game vs ND every year... Interesting. Back in your MidWest hole with ye I say. Good luck being the second best Regional Program, next to OSU.

No one regular season game is more important than stringing together a series of victories that can lead to the National Championship.

Michigan will be in the way. Swarbrick got them out.

Sorry, in the future the playoff with lean on SOS. UM helps in this regard. It is a winnable game vs a reputable team.

Notre Dame has (at least recently) provided Michigan with a national audience in a game that Michigan can compete to win. Now who is Michigan going to have in place of the ND game? Texas? SEC team? They'll have to find a really good team to play against to get near the attention ND/Mich gets, but the problem is they're not ready to compete with really good teams. ND can plug in FSU, V-Tech, or anyone else outside of the ACC if they'd like. Hurts Michigan much more.

See point above. They are going to bring in the Texas', LSUs, USCs? All the power to them. Won't hurt their chances for a BIG Championship.

If you go back and watch the 1992 Snow Bowl game, Hammond and Collinsworth both say this will be the final game ever between ND and Penn State due to PSU's move to the Big Ten. Sure enough they played in a home-and-home in 2006-07.

So 2014 probably won't bring an end to the series in a permanent way.

Anyone else at the pep rally Friday? Found it ironic the leprechaun mentioned something about Swarbrick getting a call from Brandon immediately following the imminent ND win to suspend the series a la his predecessors, yet it was the other way around.

The Big 10 is dying before our eyes and this is a good move in terms of national contention. Those who have been critical of ND's reluctance to join the Big 10 now look pretty foolish.

Funny how the BIG was so strong in conference realignment and with the BIG Network, but with this shift it seems they are being pigeon holed into a regional conference. Congrats on adding Nebraska to your TV footprint! Them farms love to watch Northwestern vs Minnesota.

Screw the entire Big twleleve... drop MSU and Purdue...

Navy
Standford
USC
5 ACC
two stupid level cream puffs (we have to come around and fight fire with fire on this eventually, NO ONE will hold FSU's first few games against them in the long run, seriously)
1-2 rotated 'name' teams... OUs and Texas' of the world.

that's a winning formula I could get behind.

Cannot schedule cream puffs due to forthcoming playoff SOS considerations.

Football didn't start 50 years ago. It started 143 years ago. You have to take in ALL results. Not just put a blanket over ones you don't want to be looked at. I don't try to hide that Michigan got beat up by Ivy League teams back in the 1800s and had a winless season.

What happened, happened. No escaping it.

But I have been told to not live in the past. Personally I don't start counting until the 60s, where I consider the modern era of football to begin.

Michigan never played any games under Knute Rockne, Leahy's greatest teams from 1946 to 1953 and Ara's teams. Wonder what that series record would be if Michigan played them then.

It is hilarious that UM fans are butt hurt now because ND was the one who initiated this. It sure was funny listening to Fathead Bill Simonson here in Michigan today. He was once again on the bandwagon of all the conferences freezing out ND because of this. What a joke. Same crap has been said for 40 years by UM fans and it never has or will happen.

The same fans that were calling out ND for aligning with the ACC and said good riddance or wanted them expunged from the schedule? Oh yah right. Congrats UM season ticket holders on your out of conference sched including such teams as Eastern Michigan, Western Michigan, Central Michigan and UMass. $100 a ticket for that lineup? Sounds great!

That's great. But just because they happened before polls, doesn't mean it doesn't matter. The school claims 11.

1901: 11-0-0 (4-0-0 Western Conference) Outscored opponents 550-0
1902: 11-0-0 (4-0-0 Western Conference)
1903: 11-0-1 (3-0-1 Western Conference) Tied Minnesota who was a power back then
1904: 10-0-0 (2-0-0 Western Conference)
1918: 5-0-0 (2-0-0 Western Conference) Season shortened due to WWI
1923: 8-0-0 (4-0-0 Western Conference)
1932: 8-0-0 (6-0-0 Western Conference)
1933: 7-0-1 (6-0-1 Western Conference) 0-0 with Minnesota
1947: 10-0-0 (6-0-0 Western Conference)^ Beat USC 49-0 in Rose Bowl
1948: 9-0-0 (6-0-0 Western Conference) Unanimous national champion
1997: 12-0 (8-0 Big Ten)

The goal at Michigan has ALWAYS been to win the B1G and go to the Rose Bowl. That's what Bo preached and did the best. He always said "you can be the best team, but you have to be voted the best team. That's why it's called a mythical national championship."

And that's what Brady Hoke has pounded into the team's head. 42 B1G Championships, the Rose Bowl logo and all of that good stuff is painted all around the football buildings.



**** you. Seriously. **** you. And I'm a Catholic.

42 SHARED & outright championships you mean? You have only won 16 outright BIG championships. This of course after blasting Sparty for not outright winning the BIG the last few years because it was a "shared" title. In the entire history of the BIG, you have only won it outright 16 times.

Wait, so Bo's goal was to finish anywhere but #1? Isn't the whole goal to win it all? And now that Hoke has risen the ghost of Bo, good luck again staying a regional MidWest program stuck winning a conference that no one gives a rats *** about. HEEHEHE WE WON THE BIG AND GOT TRUCKED IN THE ROSEBOWL BY THE PAC12s SECOND PLACE TEAM BECAUSE THE FIRST PLACE TEAM IS PLAYING FOR THE NATTY! But at least we won our conference!

Try not to set your goals too high.

All the UM people and people in general whining about ND favourtism can kiss my ***. You are the same people who say ND is irrelevant and then cry when we turn you down yet again, considering the history here is it any surprise? Swarbrick sees the future, and its not in the BIG. Good luck beating Sparty this year though, since that is now the biggest game on your schedule. By virtue of the conference being split with OSU at the end and in the other conference, Sparty is it. Enjoy.

 

[NDinL.A.]

Seriously Mods this isn't ban worthy? This Wal-Martian is allowed to come on here and provoke our posters in the name of Michigan Football while we are losing good ND posters? This is ridiculous.

Just relax. All you have to do is report the post (which you did) and eventually one of us will get to it. We have lives too bro, and sometimes those things take precedence over this board.

IMHO, you shouldn't have said that stupid remark in the first place. It was unneeded and just a flame. You had him on all the other points, you were clearly winning the argument - why stoop to that level?

But he got personal with you, and that's a big no-no. You're a member here, so you'll get your warning to keep it civil as much as possible, but he's got a few months off because of where he went with the response. If he chooses to come back he knows he has to do better than that.

If someone has a problem and/or a reason why you think this is not the right solution, please keep it off this thread and PM me cause Lord knows I'm not perfect and there could be a better way to handle this

 

[greyhammer90]

And like that...

...He's Gone!

 

[irishfanjho15]

Just relax. All you have to do is report the post (which you did) and eventually one of us will get to it. We have lives too bro, and sometimes those things take precedence over this board.

IMHO, you shouldn't have said that stupid remark in the first place. It was unneeded and just a flame. You had him on all the other points, you were clearly winning the argument - why stoop to that level?

But he got personal with you, and that's a big no-no. You're a member here, so you'll get your warning to keep it civil as much as possible, but he's got a few months off because of where he went with the response. If he chooses to come back he knows he has to do better than that.

If someone has a problem and/or a reason why you think this is not the right solution, please keep it off this thread and PM me cause Lord knows I'm not perfect and there could be a better way to handle this

I understand what you're saying but I'm not going to hoist a known racist and bigot on my shoulders, I admit I said it p!ss him off at that very instance but that does not mean that my statement about Yost was not meant wholeheartedly. I have long felt that way about the man but I respect what you're saying, and resolve to do my best in avoiding such future inflammatory comments. We all know I have no problem keeping it civil. I have gone out of my way to resolve any issue (whether legitimate or merely perceived) with any and all poster on this site when such posts have become heated.

Also I wasn't expecting a Mod that very second. Just wanted it to be documented before he tried to change it. I understand that you guys aren't always on here. I knew someone would get to it eventually. I had never reported a post before from what I remember and after I quoted it, I remembered to do so. My apologies for not reporting at the outset.

 

[Tylurrr]

And another thing, dadgum it...

I don't care what history books or results say, ND was national champ in '93.

 

[ulukinatme]

And another thing, dadgum it...

I don't care what history books or results say, ND was national champ in '93.

Eh...as someone that was at the Boston College game, and despite the fact we beat FSU in their own backyard that year, I disagree. I will say that 1 loss FSU shouldn't have been in the title game either, an undefeated WVU team probably should have taken their place, even though they got blown out in their bowl game against Florida.