Arkansas fan here with a question.

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BleedBlueGold

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Let's not make this another The People versus Turning Point thread. Most of us really appreciate his perspective and insight, only a few seem to have an issue with his posts. Let's leave it at that.
 

jimmymac

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I was not aware of this kind of stuff happening. I have to say, it upsets me, a lot. Is there no accountability from team leaders or the damn coaching staff for that matter!?

I would like to think this sh!t isn't going on on BK's watch.

They can't party on Saturday night....after the game?

For home games, the team stays in a hotel to avoid the parties. However, freshmen who are redshirted are often responsible for showing recruits around, so it's pretty common for them to party on Friday before game day, at least that's what I noted last year.
 

oviedoirish

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Good points Naptown and StlND01

Good points Naptown and StlND01

This.

I'll add another point that many won't like.

The aging alumni of ND have been another problem. The fans and ushers shushing younger fans who are not in the student section. The game atmosphere is just nothing compared to a game at Autzen or a game in the SEC.

I've heard ND loudest 2005 against USC but to be honest I think I heard more from the Florida Gators intro/pre-game.

I understand that alumni are what makes the program stand with their donations but football has evolved and ND has been left behind. I am a long time reader of ndnation.com boards and I cannot take the pessimism over there even if half of it is shtick.

We recruit some of the top student athletes in the country. That meant something 20-30 years ago. Kelly is doing everything he can to try to change it. Some of it has failed because the alumni will not stand together. They want to watch their games at noon, and be back at their moose lodge by 8PM.

I don't even have to explain the tailgating issue at ND.

In either case, with the social networking of today. Recruits know everything and I'm surprised any athlete wants to come to South Bend for a winter when they could glide through an education in the South.

Just my take.

FWIW, I agree with both of your sets of points. And don't bother going to NDNation. The majority of people that post over there are too nostalgic for the past.
 
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johnnykillz

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Turning Point is not the Problem...

Turning Point is not the Problem...

The problem is that season is still a month away.

After that, brothers, winter is coming.

And it will be a very long winter...
 
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Bogtrotter07

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No ND wasn't close in 2005, not like in 1993. In '93 I believe ND beat a #1 team. And considering that we got blown out in the BCS game in '05, we would have no business playing in a championship game.

In 1993 Notre Dame crushed FSU. The game was never close. The next week they went out and lost on a field goal to BC. Both ND and FSU won their bowl games. FSU was voted NC. When they asked Bobby Bowden whether he wishes he would have played ND in a New Years Bowl he replied, no way. We played them in November and they beat us bad. If we played them in January, they would have still beat us bad.

The 93 Championship was the Bobby Bowden lifetime achievement award.

As Notre Dame is a private Catholic Independent University, everything is in the hands of the board and the president. These are very political entities; however, they do flirt with intrigue. Twice presidents, Hessburgh and Malloy, have sought to de-emphasise football and have succeeded. Only then did they find out they killed the goose that laid the golden egg, so to speak.

In '55-56 Hessburgh, after cutting schollarships significantly, fired Terry Brennan, one of the best young minds in football. The results were catastrophic and the university suffered until Ara took over in '64.

In '95 Malloy hired a hatchet man to fire Holtz, and finally forced him out. They hired the scumbucket assistant who helped by purgering himself in Bob Davies. Davies and Weis, weren't the problem in the down years. O'Leary (never coached a game) and Willingham (spent more time on the golf course than recruiting) were. Under the care and tutilage of Maloy, White and others from the administration, with the misstep of hiring a coach who lied on his resume, the coaching prospect promoted by a Secretary of State, who recieved a Masters at UND, Ty Willingham, was alowed to drive ND football into the ground. I belive Weis may have eventually succeded, save the incredible hole in talent he ran into which cost Weis the famous 3-9, 2007 season. So no Arkansas has never had that lack of talent, all at once.

The next difference is Arkansas, much as I love you, has worked on a basis of having about a hundred and twenty-five plus players to pick from. It is easier to have three stars work for you in that scenario. Also, ND had a serious point where there were quite a few two stars recruited. The famous Willingham class washout, I believe around 18 left was the key to seven to ten years of bad football. ND couldn't develop linemen, Sam Young is a perfect example, because they had to start them as underclassmen.

Finally, there has been an attitude of privlige among the athletes playing football at ND. That is now gone. There were a few players that left before they played their fifth or final year, that were the end of that sort of attitude. This years team should show a marked difference.

Edit: I went back and read TP's post. It had some good points. Many of which dovetail with mine. Weis had three problems; he followed Willingham; he trusted others to pick his assistants, because he was removed from the college world; and he had no team discipline. The same corruption that spilled down from above covered his assistants and players.

Kelly has ended that. But remember, the whole chain of command is Jenkins, Swarbrick, Kelly, and all assistants except Alford who was an outsider with Weis. The last remaining party attitude is gone from the team, or so far drowned out that the players can get serious about football.

TP nailed the Tulsa play. That was his signature move. And it set the tone. I cursed it when it happened and immediately knew it was wrong.

The other thing that TP brought up is the old alumni. It isn't necessarily those in the stands, it's those with the checkbook. The board and president do what they want, but thousands of large checkbooks bend their wills. That ain't happening so much in '12, so there is a chance we play well!
 
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Kingbish01

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Can I answer this question?


Crist then proceeds to have a good year till he pretty much tore his knee to shreads, and Rees is inserted again. Rees plays well, and comes down to a close game vs Tulsa. Instead of electing to tie the game and go to OT, kelly has his true frosh qb take a shot to the best WR in school history...that pass gets picked off. Many of ND fans rip Kelly, and destroy him for the play call. BUT, this is only my opinon.....that moment changed the team for the better. Even in a loss to a subpar team, Kelly sent the message he is hear to win and he expects his players to be able to make plays to win.

I thought it was a very good post, but I need to point out that Kelly not kicking the field goal cost ND the game. You said it would have forced overtime, and that's not right. We lost that game by 1 and if my memory serves me right we were inside the 20 at the time of the pick. We also had a damn good kicker that would have nailed that FG.
 
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Bogtrotter07

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You are correct of course about the score, etc. That even makes TP's point shine. Kelly wants to take victory. He made that point. It was a play that we should never fail to execute. I think Kelly said we should always make that play and deserved to lose if we didn't. And even Tommy had practiced it. I think that was really the beginning of the end for Tommy. But what the hell do I know?
 

irishog77

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Some people need to understand context a little better.

TP's original post in here was pretty good. How much of it is 100% true? I have no idea, but most of the info in it seems plausible and feasible to me. It’s also, for the most part, tame and uncontroversial.

He did, however, make a claim(s) that was fairly controversial: …but Weis had teams that were very undisciplined. That was attributed to them showing up hungover to games and not being able to be focused. Add in the fact that the coaching staff had restraining orders against each other, and were times punches were thrown from one staff member towards another. It was a terrible situation. The kids had no one to guide them nor develop them bc of disagreements or egos from the staff.”

That’s a fairly d@mning statement to make about a person(s). Again, it may be 100% correct, but a supposition exists that even starting players were hungover while playing games and/or the coaching staff had legal procedures in the works against one another and the staff was in physical opposition to one another. It’s not quite the same thing as claiming, say, "Weis and his teams weren’t prepared." That’s a fairly ambiguous statement and is open for some interpretation fueled by one’s definition of “prepared.” TP’s statement above isn’t. For another person to ask for some further info on that claim isn’t a personal attack against TP. It’s part of being a critical thinker—something this board loves to tout as a trait it possesses versus other ND forums and message boards. Any and all kinds of posters on here get grilled for making serious claims and accusations. Why shouldn't TP?
 

woolybug25

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Let's not make this another The People versus Turning Point thread. Most of us really appreciate his perspective and insight, only a few seem to have an issue with his posts. Let's leave it at that.

This gets said every time, but the last few times the people bringing it up have been different. It's a common excuse from the hero-worshiper crowd.


I personally don't really have a problem with TP's post this time though. I see why others may have an issue with the accusations, but I don't really mind.
 

NDhoosier

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This gets said every time, but the last few times the people bringing it up have been different. It's a common excuse from the hero-worshiper crowd.


I personally don't really have a problem with TP's post this time though. I see why others may have an issue with the accusations, but I don't really mind.

it gets said because it is the same people every time... We have a few TP haters on this board, the problem is that all of those hater are long-time members, so the mods dont say anything, but people are starting to get irritated with all this TP bashing for no reason.

TP, MUCH more people on this board like you than dont...

haters-gonna-hate-18.jpg
 

woolybug25

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it gets said because it is the same people every time... We have a few TP haters on this board, the problem is that all of those hater are long-time members, so the mods dont say anything, but people are starting to get irritated with all this TP bashing for no reason.

TP, MUCH more people on this board like you than dont...

haters-gonna-hate-18.jpg

The last two times he has gotten something said to him, it was from people that I hadn't heard say anything about him either ever or in a real long time (in this case).

I'm not going to name names, but I know at least 15 different posters that have voiced their displeasure with one of TP's posts before. But keep saying it... maybe it will come true for you.
 

95NDAlumNM

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The last two times he has gotten something said to him, it was from people that I hadn't heard say anything about him either ever or in a real long time (in this case).

I'm not going to name names, but I know at least 15 different posters that have voiced their displeasure with one of TP's posts before. But keep saying it... maybe it will come true for you.

How about a poll thread to see where everyone stands on this. It will give us something to do till the season starts.
 

tadman95

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I think a poll on any member is a bad idea. If people don't like his posts, they can block them.
 

Ironman8

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I think a poll on any member is a bad idea. If people don't like his posts, they can block them.

Agreed. Let's be a little more mature than that, just until the first turnover of the season and the gameday thread meltdown. Optimism!
 

woolybug25

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I think a poll on any member is a bad idea. If people don't like his posts, they can block them.

I agree. A poll made specifically to call out one poster is pretty inappropriate. I may disagree with how TP handles his business sometimes, but I don't wish a public evaluation of him. Every poster on here deserves to be treated better than that.
 

NYMIKE6

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I think with all the "Old Lady Bickering" we scared away the Arky guy....
 

tadman95

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My take on some of TP's posts and other's also-

The Buzz Buzz and smiley face posts can be a little annoying I'll admit. Then I put myself in his shoes (and others) and think what would I do? If I'm privy to inside information, I can't just openly publish because I wouldn't be an insider very long.

On the other hand, I want to share with my fellow fans because if you're a member on IE you are an above normal fan and I want to let you know something good might be happening. "Buzz Buzz" is about a good a way as any, albeit a little annoying.

I'd rather know something's brewing. I've watched this board 5 or 6 years now counting lurking. I know so much more than I did then; history, insights, recruiting news, more about the players, the university, the coaches. I'm pretty grateful, and it's free. How do I complain about that?!
 
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95NDAlumNM

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I agree. A poll made specifically to call out one poster is pretty inappropriate. I may disagree with how TP handles his business sometimes, but I don't wish a public evaluation of him. Every poster on here deserves to be treated better than that.

Well there seems to be a public evaluation of him every time he posts something, so a poll would not really be any different besides that we can keep it in one thread instead of spreading it out over every thread he says something in. Also, there seems to be some people that think a lot of people are critical of him and others that think it is a certain few. So a poll would be a nice way to quantify that. However, if people think this is a bad idea so be it. Can we at least keep all of this TP bickering out of every thread he posts in? Thanks.
 
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Bogtrotter07

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I think with all the "Old Lady Bickering" we scared away the Arky guy....

And now he knows the real reason for the problems with ND football . . .

You know what I don't get. TP was trying to express his point. He wasn't trying to drag anyone through the mud. Just take it for what it is worth, leave what you don't like . . .
 
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NYMIKE6

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Just take it for what it is worth, leave what you don't like . . .

I agree with this demeanor.... If i disagree i will debate... If i really disagree i will leave it alone... Every once in awhile i'll get the urge to throw a jab... No need to run anyone off the site especially people that have the same passion we do for everything ND.
 

Irish#1

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I think with all the "Old Lady Bickering" we scared away the Arky guy....

Thanks NYM......I can always count on someone on this board coming up with something absolutely hilarious.

I think you're right, he kept reading this thread and probably told his fellow Razorback buddies, "You think we're passionate about our team? Those Notred Dame fans are....".

We all have our own opinions about why ND football has had this down period, but I think it comes down to one thing. Bad coaching hires for an extended period of time. Each of these coaches lacked one or two major componenets to be a head coach at Notre Dame or at any of the bigger programs.

1. Davie had no HC experience and was in way over his head.
2. Willingham had the HC experience but learned the demands of the ND HC outside of the football program were significantly higher than at Stanford. He didn't know how to mamage it so something suffered. In this case it was recruiting.
2. Weis lacked HC experience and drew what he knew from the NFL where coaching and playing football is a job and players are expected to do many things with less or little supervision. Most college players are still in that age phase where they require structure and supervision to be successful and Weis didn't provide that. He also made some poor choices in hiring his staff and setting structure and bounderies for them.

What we've seen from BK so far, is a HC that has set goals and a plan for success. He has shared these with his staff and team and has made it very clear exactly what he expects from each and everyone one of them. This includes recruiting, off-season workouts, studying, etc..
 
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TheTurningPoint

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If IE wants a thread/poll i dont care lol

Just look at the facts or use common sense on the distractions/problems in the staff during weis. The responsibilities of each coach/their "title"/where they were located during the game....In no way was my orig post trying to stir up trouble. He wanted an answer i gave it. If you disagree thats fine, i have no problems with that.
 

dshans

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I don't understand the problem. I don't pay attention to a damn thing any of you says and I dislike each and every one of you ...
 

NYMIKE6

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I don't understand the problem. I don't pay attention to a damn thing any of you says and I dislike each and every one of you ...

All right! someone with my same outlook..... I'm also a equal opportunist "I hate everyone equally"
 

IrishFBfanatic

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My take on some of TP's posts and other's also-

The Buzz Buzz and smiley face posts can be a little annoying I'll admit. Then I put myself in his shoes (and others) and think what would I do? If I'm privy to inside information, I can't just openly publish because I wouldn't be an insider very long.

On the other hand, I want to share with my fellow fans because if you're a member on IE you are an above normal fan and I want to let you know something good might be happening. "Buzz Buzz" is about a good a way as any, albeit a little annoying.

I'd rather know something's brewing. I've watched this board 5 or 6 years now counting lurking. I know so much more than I did then; history, insights, recruiting news, more about the players, the university, the coaches. I'm pretty grateful, and it's free. How do I complain about that?!

AGREED 100%!!!!

TP knows more about this program and team than pretty much anyone besides the team and coaches themselves. There is a reason he doesn't share information fully, but does his best to at least warn everyone when something is getting ready to happen.

Are you all pissed at BK for not joining IE and giving all the inside scoop? There are reasons things can't be shared. A smiley face at least gives you a heads up to watch out for information on that subject. It's better than nothing.
 
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Bogtrotter07

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Wait a minute. By the way TP is right. You all were not here to see the way Weis's former staff has blown up? How many of them were fired from their job immediately after ND? How many have been jailed? Subtract both from the number of total assistants and what do you have?

Not much.

There was no organization among his staff. No clear job descriptions. And I have also heard stories to match everything TP has said. The last of the "bad wind" has pretty much left the bend. There was one player you didn't alway hear to much about that was right in the middle of it. And he left just a short time ago.

That is why, all of a sudden Kelly's teams are going to start performing better.

And it was alway corruption from the top. Always is, the coaches were just posterboys.
 

gkIrish

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If IE wants a thread/poll i dont care lol

Just look at the facts or use common sense on the distractions/problems in the staff during weis. The responsibilities of each coach/their "title"/where they were located during the game....In no way was my orig post trying to stir up trouble. He wanted an answer i gave it. If you disagree thats fine, i have no problems with that.

This is an example of a comment that really grinds my gears. Just makes you sound extremely egotistical. Sounds like, "Hell make a poll, I'm gonna come out on top regardless."

If you could tone down these types of comments I think a lot of us with a negative opinion of the majority of your posts would respect you more.
 

TheTurningPoint

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This is an example of a comment that really grinds my gears. Just makes you sound extremely egotistical. Sounds like, "Hell make a poll, I'm gonna come out on top regardless."

If you could tone down these types of comments I think a lot of us with a negative opinion of the majority of your posts would respect you more.


I was stating that if they want to start a poll bc they mentioned it they can bc other said it would offend a poster. I dont get offended at anything anyone says bc its their opinion. If it came off wrong i apologize you took it that way. If i had stated to start a poll itd be different.
 

NYMIKE6

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If you could tone down these types of comments I think a lot of us with a negative opinion of the majority of your posts would respect you more.

So you're saying you expect someone that is getting insulted by numerous posters on many occasions to stay calm? Enough is enough..... just let the guy alone....

I think everyone should "TONE DOWN" and let this rest.... Leave TP to his business.... if you don't like what he posts don't read it.... I haven't read any post of TP's that insults anyone here.... How you take it is on you.....
 
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Bogtrotter07

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Yeah, don't fuk with my buddy Mike. (I got your back, man.)
 
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