Operation Fast and Furious turning into Obama's Watergate.

[k1ssme1m1r1sh]

For Christ's sake, can't we have a LeBron James vs. Michael Jordan thread, or a yo mama joke thread, STFU about all the politics. IS IT SEPTEMBER YET????

 

[IrishJayhawk]

I like sports.

 

[Rhode Irish]

Where was this cited as the basis for the claim of privilege? I haven't seen it anywhere. All signs point to the basis being the executive agency's need to be able to conduct its internal investigation with its employees and decision makers. The WH is claiming, and probably with merit, that release of the documents will beget reluctance (if not outright refusal) to participate in internal inquiries on the part of executive branch employees in the future.

Honestly, this is entirely a fishing expedition on the part of Issa. If he cared that much about the truth of the circumstances of someone's death, he would have been out front on Tillman's death too. But he wasn't. He, and the rest of the Republicans on that committee, did anything and everything to downplay the Bush Administration's handling of the Tillman case.

This has little to no resemblance to Watergate and a sadly striking similarity to the Tillman case.

Apparently I've been a little fast & furious repping people in the last 24 hours, so it won't let me rep this. But reps coming your way soon. Thanks for bringing some sensibility to this thread.

 

[ab2cmiller]

Comparing this to Watergate seems ridiculous to me. I'm not too bothered by this story. It wasn't the smartest operation in world history, but that isn't the first time we've been involved with a dumb operation. Voting to hold the AG of the United States in contempt of Congress is embarrassing.

People will be outraged about anything if it benefits them politically to be outraged, I guess. I don't see this as a political issue.

It's only being compared to Watergate, because it's so blatantly obvious that the White House is lying about this issue.

White House has denied knowing anything about this program. But despite their denials of not knowing anything, they need to invoke executive privilege so that documents aren't revealed about a program that they supposedly knew nothing about.

Which is it? If you knew nothing, turn over the stupid documents. if the documents can't be turned over, then obviously your denials of no knowledge were total lies. As many have said the cover up is always worse then coming clean.

 

[Rhode Irish]

Doesnt answer my question however, howd his single mother pay for a elite private school?

Not your business.

 

[In Lou I Trust]

Totally agree. I am sick and tired of coming to a board about Notre Dame and having to sift through all of the political crap. If I wanted to talk politics, I would go somewhere else. I have a feeling that if something isn't done, this site is going to get unbearable with all of the political bull$hit as we move through the election cycle. I will simply start reading a different board, which is sad, because I love this place.

I hope the mods step in and start telling all the booger eaters on this board to talk politics elsewhere. I read this board to get away from crap like politics.

My apologies... I must have put this in the ND football forum. I meant to put it in the Leprechaun Lounge.

 

[GoldenIsThyFame]

I like sports.

I call for a thread take over.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/CEVdca9U9LM" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

 

[Who'saWildManNow]

Politics is a sad and useless topic to get angry over. There will never be a President of the U.S. that does everything right, because no one will ever agree on what is right.

Let's not act like everyone before Obama had it right...

George W. Bush

- Tax cuts for the wealthy (the start of the economic recession)

- $300 billion + wasted on an Iraqi war... WMD, not there. A *****ING enormous profit for Haliburton and VP Cheney's 50,000 shares though.. oh and somehow Rumsfield kept his job.

- Lied about Social Security.

- Ignored Iran and N. Korea's nuclear build up.

- 9/11 intelligence failures.

- Failure to give a **** about Katrina.

- Appointed his drinking buddies to major positions and let them run the country as he passively stood by staring.

The last one is the one that means the most to me. I don't think Bush was a "bad person". I just think he was a passive, ignorant dumbass that let his friends make his decisions.

 

[RDU Irish]

My apologies... I must have put this in the ND football forum. I meant to put it in the Leprechaun Lounge.

I thought for sure "Operation Fast and Furious turning into Obama's Watergate" was football related.

How freaking lazy are you guys that you can't gloss over threads that are not of interest to you? I don't touch a majority of the threads here but maybe I should jump in there and complain about how it isn't what I want to read.

THEN DON'T READ IT YOU BOOGER EATERS! Sorry, had to bounce that one back.

Sincerely,

Captain Obvious

 

[Irish Houstonian]

Where was this cited as the basis for the claim of privilege? I haven't seen it anywhere...

You haven't seen it because it doesn't exist. WH refuses to provide a privilege log, so we are purely left to speculate what his basis is. Sort of a double-whammy if you ask me. That's just what WH defenders have been saying/speculating.

 

[RDU Irish]

Politics is a sad and useless topic to get angry over. There will never be a President of the U.S. that does everything right, because no one will ever agree on what is right.

Let's not act like everyone before Obama had it right...

George W. Bush

- Tax cuts for the wealthy (the start of the economic recession)

- $300 billion + wasted on an Iraqi war... WMD, not there. A *****ING enormous profit for Haliburton and VP Cheney's 50,000 shares though.. oh and somehow Rumsfield kept his job.

- Lied about Social Security.

- Ignored Iran and N. Korea's nuclear build up.

- 9/11 intelligence failures.

- Failure to give a **** about Katrina.

- Appointed his drinking buddies to major positions and let them run the country as he passively stood by staring.

The last one is the one that means the most to me. I don't think Bush was a "bad person". I just think he was a passive, ignorant dumbass that let his friends make his decisions.

I agree. Bush spent too much and fixed nothing. His tax cuts were temporary, not permanent. His only permanent work were expansions of government and further erosion of our personal liberty (Medicare part D, HSA, Patriot Act, No Child Left Behind....). I would still vote for him over Gore and Kerry any day of the week, or Obama for that matter. Lesser of two evils is the only choice I have been presented with in any Presidential election I have participated in.

Now ask yourself how many people want their vote back for Obama A) over Hillary in the primaries and/or B) over McCain in the general election. That person may not be you, but there are way more I see heading that way versus McCain voters who wish they voted for Obama. Despite how my posts may appear, I do try to take a step back and assess the political landscape from a logical, non-partisan view. Very difficult to do since pretty much all news sources are biased. It is probably not far off to estimate, regardless of candidate, 40% will be committed Republican and 40% committed Democrat. The other 20% will decide the election.

From my own perspective, I think McCain had tepid support due to Bush fatigue and a moldy weak candidate to which an unknown was given preference. Now Obama is fully ousted as one of the most liberal players in Washington (his limited record indicated only John Kerry was more liberal in the Senate by some scores but that was ignored due to the Obamania). This is hard to dispute IMO. Romney is a moderate Republican by most counts and a real resume. I don't know how anyone could defend Obama's resume from the start, I would love to hear any thesis on a less qualified President. Throw on the anti-incumbent attitude of the electorate and pretty much every election since 2008 going against Obama and I see trouble for Barry. All of this will be irrelevant if the economy picks up and real unemployment improves (which looks increasingly unlikely). The question will then be, how much improvement and how long before the election to bail out Obama?

The handling of Fast and Furious only reinforces the concept of Obama being over his head and a dangerous "I can do what I want and if you don't like it you are ignorant" attitude. Much the same attitude accused of GW, so goes with the territory. However, you lie about stuff and that will take you down faster than any crime you are lying about (See Richard Nixon and Bill Clinton). It is really too bad this cannot fuel a fundamental debate on the failed war on drugs and lack of real immigration reform. Instead, 80% throws bombs back and forth while 20% make some popcorn and wait to see if this negative stuff is worse than the negative stuff that will be lobbed at Romney.

 

[In Lou I Trust]

I thought for sure "Operation Fast and Furious turning into Obama's Watergate" was football related.

How freaking lazy are you guys that you can't gloss over threads that are not of interest to you? I don't touch a majority of the threads here but maybe I should jump in there and complain about how it isn't what I want to read.

THEN DON'T READ IT YOU BOOGER EATERS! Sorry, had to bounce that one back.

Sincerely,

Captain Obvious

They're jumping in here and bitching because it paints Obama in a negative light. You will, however, see them praising Obama and stating their intent to vote for him in the upcoming election in other political threads.

 

[GoldenIsThyFame]

They're jumping in here and bitching because it paints Obama in a negative light. You will, however, see them praising Obama and stating their intent to vote for him in the upcoming election in other political threads.

Ha! Yes that is exactly it.

 

[irishpat183]

Doesnt answer my question however, howd his single mother pay for a elite private school?

Call her and ask...I have no idea. But he did attend one. And went to an Ivy league college.

 

[In Lou I Trust]

Ha! Yes that is exactly it.

That wasn't actually directed at you. It was more of a passive aggressive jab at Kissme.

 

[irishpat183]

Politics is a sad and useless topic to get angry over. There will never be a President of the U.S. that does everything right, because no one will ever agree on what is right.

Let's not act like everyone before Obama had it right...

George W. Bush

- Tax cuts for the wealthy (the start of the economic recession)

- $300 billion + wasted on an Iraqi war... WMD, not there. A *****ING enormous profit for Haliburton and VP Cheney's 50,000 shares though.. oh and somehow Rumsfield kept his job.

- Lied about Social Security.

- Ignored Iran and N. Korea's nuclear build up.

- 9/11 intelligence failures.

- Failure to give a **** about Katrina.

- Appointed his drinking buddies to major positions and let them run the country as he passively stood by staring.

The last one is the one that means the most to me. I don't think Bush was a "bad person". I just think he was a passive, ignorant dumbass that let his friends make his decisions.

Tax cuts for the wealthy? Don't forget that the Bush tax cuts benefitted the middle class as well. Also, the rich paid more taxes in 2005 than anytime in the prior 20 years And GDP growth was the highest in 20 years. Unemployment fell to the LOWEST it had been since WWII.

One could say the Democratic congress screwed things up.

Also, the Katrina mess needs to stop. You need to focus your anger on the Mayor and Gov of LA...who spent money on Yachts and vactions out of the Levee funds. There was PLENTY of money for those levees to be repaired and it was all of a sudden unaccounted for. Not to mention....When someone tells you to evacuate a city because of a pending storm (2 weeks in advance) don't stick around and then complain that "no one helped". ANother tatic by the left to demonize Bush...the Katrina lies.

9/11....I don't blame him at all. It was what? 8 months into his first term??? I'll call that one out on Billy before I blame Bushy. Clinton had more to do with that than Bush. Talk about failed intelligence.


And I will say, Bush didn't really fix anything. I'm pissed that he didn't do anyting about our boarders. Wasn't the best pres, but definately catches too much crap for stuff he didn't create alone. Funny how people point the finger at Bush for things happing while he was in office, yet Obama gets the "well the republican congress" defense. Bush had a democatic congress nearly his entire time in office. Did we forget that?

 

[JadeBrecks]

Quick question: Why would someone ever do this? It has no real gain ( unlike the ***** transactions) and can only **** on your chances of reelection.

Because you cab then turn around and say American assault rifles are being used by Mexican drug cartel and we need tighter laws and even bans on certain firearms (eventually endings in all firearms). When they show you the "numbers" of these American guns used in these crimes the people are more receptive it even for these laws.

 

[sfk324]

You haven't seen it because it doesn't exist. WH refuses to provide a privilege log, so we are purely left to speculate what his basis is. Sort of a double-whammy if you ask me. That's just what WH defenders have been saying/speculating.

An interesting assertion. Also a false one.

"In a letter to the president released by the White House, Holder argued that giving up the documents sought by the panel “would inhibit the candor” of deliberations within the executive branch. He said documents “were generated in the course of the deliberative process” and as a result “the need to maintain their confidentiality is heightened.”

On ‘Fast and Furious’ materials, Obama asserts executive privilege - The Washington Post

I get it. You don't like Obama or Holder or anyone else in his administration. But you can't just make stuff up to suit your wants. The documents Issa requested relate to the post February 4, 2011 period. They've already been given information regarding what individuals knew what and when.

Which is why this is a fishing expedition--and a perpetual one at that. Each request leads to more meetings and deliberations, which then become fodder for another request in 3 months or whenever the committe decides to request it. As long as they can keep requesting documents, they can keep making the argument that "the administration has more information they don't want the public to see and therefore are covering up Obama's direct involvement!" Nevermind that none of the information they have received has even a shred of evidence to support such an assertion.

It's the same thing the Democrats on the committee did to Rumsfeld when they were investigating the Tillman incident. This is pure politics, designed to attempt to embarass the executive branch because Issa has a disdain for this administration deeper than the Grand Canyon.

 

[irishpat183]

I agree. Bush spent too much and fixed nothing. His tax cuts were temporary, not permanent. His only permanent work were expansions of government and further erosion of our personal liberty (Medicare part D, HSA, Patriot Act, No Child Left Behind....). I would still vote for him over Gore and Kerry any day of the week, or Obama for that matter. Lesser of two evils is the only choice I have been presented with in any Presidential election I have participated in.

Now ask yourself how many people want their vote back for Obama A) over Hillary in the primaries and/or B) over McCain in the general election. That person may not be you, but there are way more I see heading that way versus McCain voters who wish they voted for Obama. Despite how my posts may appear, I do try to take a step back and assess the political landscape from a logical, non-partisan view. Very difficult to do since pretty much all news sources are biased. It is probably not far off to estimate, regardless of candidate, 40% will be committed Republican and 40% committed Democrat. The other 20% will decide the election.

From my own perspective, I think McCain had tepid support due to Bush fatigue and a moldy weak candidate to which an unknown was given preference. Now Obama is fully ousted as one of the most liberal players in Washington (his limited record indicated only John Kerry was more liberal in the Senate by some scores but that was ignored due to the Obamania). This is hard to dispute IMO. Romney is a moderate Republican by most counts and a real resume. I don't know how anyone could defend Obama's resume from the start, I would love to hear any thesis on a less qualified President. Throw on the anti-incumbent attitude of the electorate and pretty much every election since 2008 going against Obama and I see trouble for Barry. All of this will be irrelevant if the economy picks up and real unemployment improves (which looks increasingly unlikely). The question will then be, how much improvement and how long before the election to bail out Obama?

The handling of Fast and Furious only reinforces the concept of Obama being over his head and a dangerous "I can do what I want and if you don't like it you are ignorant" attitude. Much the same attitude accused of GW, so goes with the territory. However, you lie about stuff and that will take you down faster than any crime you are lying about (See Richard Nixon and Bill Clinton). It is really too bad this cannot fuel a fundamental debate on the failed war on drugs and lack of real immigration reform. Instead, 80% throws bombs back and forth while 20% make some popcorn and wait to see if this negative stuff is worse than the negative stuff that will be lobbed at Romney.

Obama could've beaten Jesus in that election. Anti-Bush was the golden campaign strategy.

 

[RDU Irish]

Obama could've beaten Jesus in that election. Anti-Bush was the golden campaign strategy.

Thus the complete pass on his shortcomings, especially since McCain insisted on being "civil." Dems pounced on this structural strength and put in the most liberal candidate they could find. I keep waiting to see Obama pivot to a new strategy but "it's the Republicans fault" seems to be the only song he knows. Barring a strong economic recovery, I don't see how Obama can do it.

 

[Rhode Irish]

An interesting assertion. Also a false one.

"In a letter to the president released by the White House, Holder argued that giving up the documents sought by the panel “would inhibit the candor” of deliberations within the executive branch. He said documents “were generated in the course of the deliberative process” and as a result “the need to maintain their confidentiality is heightened.”

On ‘Fast and Furious’ materials, Obama asserts executive privilege - The Washington Post

I get it. You don't like Obama or Holder or anyone else in his administration. But you can't just make stuff up to suit your wants. The documents Issa requested relate to the post February 4, 2011 period. They've already been given information regarding what individuals knew what and when.

Which is why this is a fishing expedition--and a perpetual one at that. Each request leads to more meetings and deliberations, which then become fodder for another request in 3 months or whenever the committe decides to request it. As long as they can keep requesting documents, they can keep making the argument that "the administration has more information they don't want the public to see and therefore are covering up Obama's direct involvement!" Nevermind that none of the information they have received has even a shred of evidence to support such an assertion.

It's the same thing the Democrats on the committee did to Rumsfeld when they were investigating the Tillman incident. This is pure politics, designed to attempt to embarass the executive branch because Issa has a disdain for this administration deeper than the Grand Canyon.

"tl;dr"
- every person in this thread who disagrees with you

In all seriousness, you're killing this one.

 

[Irish Houstonian]

An interesting assertion. Also a false one.

So there is, in fact, a privilege log? I wasn't aware of that, but I'll be interested in seeing what their basis is. Can you post a URL?

In any event, under U.S. v. Nixon no claim of privlege can be used to cover up an illegality, which Holder potentially committed. That is, he can't use the privilege to prevent Congress from proving he committed perjury.

 

[k1ssme1m1r1sh]

They're jumping in here and bitching because it paints Obama in a negative light. You will, however, see them praising Obama and stating their intent to vote for him in the upcoming election in other political threads.

I do intend to vote for him, however, when was that thread posted? More than a week ago? And since then there's been like 10 more threads with political crap in them. We get it. You all hate Obama, and you can't wait till November to vote against him. Yay Democracy! The horse is dead, starting a new political thread every single day is annoying. You'd all be saying the same thing if threads that were pro-Obama were started. In the mean time, you can make all the jabs you want at me, I still think you're a douche pontoon.

 

[In Lou I Trust]

I do intend to vote for him, however, when was that thread posted? More than a week ago? And since then there's been like 10 more threads with political crap in them. We get it. You all hate Obama, and you can't wait till November to vote against him. Yay Democracy! The horse is dead, starting a new political thread every single day is annoying. You'd all be saying the same thing if threads that were pro-Obama were started. In the mean time, you can make all the jabs you want at me, I still think you're a douche pontoon.

A douche pontoon for taking a jab at you and starting a thread about a hot political subject? Grow up.

 

[k1ssme1m1r1sh]

A douche pontoon for taking a jab at you and starting a thread about a hot political subject? Grow up.

You can tell it's the off season...no one has a sense of humor anymore...

 

[irishpat183]

Those that don't like the poltical threads...feel free to go back to offseason threads about tweeting recruits and fake ND uniform treads.

You don't have to let us know that you don't like the thread, not being here is sufficient enough

 

[In Lou I Trust]

You can tell it's the off season...no one has a sense of humor anymore...

It's the internet, I don't know you from Eve and we're talking about one of the biggest hot button topics. You can understand my confusion with your comment.

 

[irishpat183]

Thus the complete pass on his shortcomings, especially since McCain insisted on being "civil." Dems pounced on this structural strength and put in the most liberal candidate they could find. I keep waiting to see Obama pivot to a new strategy but "it's the Republicans fault" seems to be the only song he knows. Barring a strong economic recovery, I don't see how Obama can do it.

Exactly. All Obama had to do was run against W...the election was his. That combined with the facination of having the first black pres in history (no doubt an acheivement in it's own right). Hey, he ran a great campaign.

Hate for Bush won that election. Not Obama.

 

[k1ssme1m1r1sh]

It's the internet, I don't know you from Eve and we're talking about one of the biggest hot button topics. You can understand my confusion with your comment.

Sure I can. I just thought it was funny. I laughed for about 10 minutes the first time someone said it to me. But it is still the internet, it's not that serious.

 

[95NDAlumNM]

Thus the complete pass on his shortcomings, especially since McCain insisted on being "civil." Dems pounced on this structural strength and put in the most liberal candidate they could find. I keep waiting to see Obama pivot to a new strategy but "it's the Republicans fault" seems to be the only song he knows. Barring a strong economic recovery, I don't see how Obama can do it.

Latino boom makes Orlando proving ground for Obama - CNN.com