Operation Fast and Furious turning into Obama's Watergate.

[In Lou I Trust]

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/t...l-is-turning-into-president-obamas-watergate/

Fast and furious hasn’t been discussed a lot in the mainstream media, which is why the facts can seem so preposterous when you read them for the first time. But the story is slowly unraveling and the public is catching up with the madness. On Wednesday, the The House Oversight and Government Reform Committee voted to hold Attorney General Eric Holder in contempt over his decision to withhold documents related to the “gun walking” operation – documents that President Obama tried to keep secret by invoking executive privilege. The question of why the Prez intervened in this way will surely hang over the investigation and the White House for many months to come. Be patient, conservatives. It took nearly eight months for the Watergate break in to become a national news story. But when it finally did, it toppled a President.

Here’s what Fast and Furious is all about – and for the uninitiated, be prepared for a shock. In 2009, the US government instructed Arizona gun sellers illegally to sell arms to suspected criminals. Agents working for the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF) were then ordered not to stop the sales but to allow the arms to “walk” across the border into the arms of Mexican drug-traffickers. According to the Oversight Committee’s report, “The purpose was to wait and watch, in hope that law enforcement could identify other members of a trafficking network and build a large, complex conspiracy case…. [The ATF] initially began using the new gun-walking tactics in one of its investigations to further the Department’s strategy. The case was soon renamed ‘Operation Fast and Furious.”

Tracing the arms became difficult, until they starting appearing at bloody crime scenes. Many Mexicans have died from being shot by ATF sanctioned guns, but the scandal only became public after a US federal agent, Border Patrol Agent Brian Terry, was killed by one of them in a fire fight. ATF whistle blowers started to come forward and the Department of Justice was implicated. It’s estimated that the US government effectively supplied 1,608 weapons to criminals, at a total value of over $1 million. Aside from putting American citizens in danger, the AFT also supplied what now amounts to a civil war within Mexico.

It’s important to note that the Bush administration oversaw something similar to Fast and Furious. Called Operation Wide Receiver, it used the common tactic of “controlled delivery,” whereby agents would allow an illegal transaction to take place, closely follow the movements of the arms, and then descend on the culprits. But Fast and Furious is different because it was “uncontrolled delivery,” whereby the criminals were essentially allowed to drop off the map. Perhaps more importantly, Wide Receiver was conducted with the cooperation of the Mexican government. Fast and Furious was not.

So Obama’s operation is subtly different. But just as concerning is the heavy handed way that the administration has handled criticism. Obama says that the Oversight Committee has been hi-jacked by Republicans who would rather talk about politics than creating jobs (because Obama is o-so very good at generating those). But there has been Democratic criticism too, and the Prez’s determined defence of Holder will only encourage conspiracy thinking that the scandal has hidden depths. Executive privilege is usually associated with protecting information that passes through the Oval Office. What did the documents reveal about Obama’s association with the operation?

Again, it’s important to contextualise. Executive privilege has been invoked 24 times since Ronald Reagan, and attempts to over-ride it rarely reach the courts. Moreover, Holder’s request for executive privilege made no reference to White House involvement in Fast and Furious, which seems to have been run exclusively by the ATF. Nevertheless, by refusing to sack Holder or push him to come clean, Obama may have made a very Nixonian mistake.

A lot of conservatives are writing at the moment that not only is Obama turning into Nixon Mark II, but Obama is much worse because no one actually got killed during Watergate. The comparison is based on the myth that Nixon ordered the Watergate break in and that’s what he eventually had to resign over. But that’s not true. Nixon’s guilt was in trying to pervert the course of justice by persuading the FBI to drop its investigation of the crime. Mistake number one, then, was to involve the White House in covering up the errors of a separate, autonomous political department. Mistake number two was that when Congress discovered that evidence about the scandal might be recorded on the White House bugging system, Nixon invoked executive privilege to protect the tapes. In both cases, it was the cover up that destroyed Tricky Dick – not the original crime.

And, forty years later almost to the day, here we have Obama making the same mistake. Perhaps it’s an act of chivalry to stand by Holder; perhaps it’s an admission of guilt. Either way, it sinks the Oval Office ever further into the swamp that is Fast and Furious. Make no mistake about: Fast and Furious was perhaps the most shameful domestic law and order operation since the Waco siege. It’s big government at its worst: big, incompetent and capable of ruining lives.

 

[DSully1995]

I have to ask how this gets so much attention but the US supplying Bin ***** in the 90s never gets talked about...

 

[Buster Bluth]

Sorta crazy that with both stupid operations, movie titles played a big role. Operation Fast & Furious has, well, Fast &Furious. Watergate had Deep Throat, the name of the informant whom I believe tipped the whole thing off.

It's debatable which movie was worse, what is hardly debatable is that President Obama is more or less an amateur at this job. Say whatevrr you want about his policies, he is the absolute opposite of President Johnson in how he conducts himself. From the pathetic recovery, to communication failures with Congressional Democrats, to terrible Secretary choices, to how badly he's handled Russia/Iran.....he's job an absolutely miserable job. Just terrible..

 

[Buster Bluth]

I have to ask how this gets so much attention but the US supplying Bin ***** in the 90s never gets talked about...

It's really not that big of a story. We've been playing enemies against enemies for a loooong time, as every world power has. You can go back to the Romans and see similar instances of using one barbarian tribe against another, and then reversing it. I personally think we should just GTFO, but it's not breaking news.

 

[In Lou I Trust]

I have to ask how this gets so much attention but the US supplying Bin ***** in the 90s never gets talked about...

Because that's old, irrelevant news. People know about it but what good is talking about it in 2012?

 

[In Lou I Trust]

I completely agree, Buster.

 

[DSully1995]

It's really not that big of a story. We've been playing enemies against enemies for a loooong time, as every world power has. You can go back to the Romans and see similar instances of using one barbarian tribe against another, and then reversing it. I personally think we should just GTFO, but it's not breaking news.

Same. In other news, IrishEnvy blocks out the word l@den?

 

[irishpat183]

Combined with the War Games going on over in Syria....

Obama may want out anyway. He's not equiped to handle these situations.

Anything he can't blame on someone else, is a problem for him

 

[Irish Houstonian]

I don't know about being Watergate-level yet, because technically we don't know yet if the President isn't hiding a crime. (We'll never know whether Holder committed perjury, because he's hiding the documents that can show what he knew and when he knew it.)

But one thing's for sure: Obama's improperly invoking Executive Privilege to hide his own (and Holder's) knowledge and involvement.

Many hidden documents requested regarding F&F relate to the program's origination and who-knew-what-and-when. That is, they were created before the House had any involvement whatsoever.

So for Obama to say that the docs are privileged b/c they relate to "Executive strategies" in dealing with the Congressional hearings is patently absurd. It only makes sense if the DOJ and President are (1) psychic and (2) discussed strategies in every oneof the 10,000+ documents.

 

[DSully1995]

Combined with the War Games going on over in Syria....

Obama may want out anyway. He's not equiped to handle these situations.

Anything he can't blame on someone else, is a problem for him

I have more faith in a president who ahd to work his way up from the ghetto and drug life to the highest position in the US than someone who had fortune forge his way to the top. (fortune as in luck to be born to a rich father)

 

[tadman95]

I'm just happy there's no political basis, especially being an election year. Whew!

 

[RDU Irish]

Great article summarizing this fiasco.

If you think Obama is bad, wait until Biden takes over for him if he is impeached on this stuff. As usual, the cover up will be treated worse than the crime. Just like Al Capone being sent to jail for tax evasion. Too bad the election will save this moron the disgrace of impeachment.


Some other important points to the article:
"It’s important to note that the Bush administration oversaw something similar to Fast and Furious. Called Operation Wide Receiver, it used the common tactic of “controlled delivery,” whereby agents would allow an illegal transaction to take place, closely follow the movements of the arms, and then descend on the culprits. But Fast and Furious is different because it was “uncontrolled delivery,” whereby the criminals were essentially allowed to drop off the map. Perhaps more importantly, Wide Receiver was conducted with the cooperation of the Mexican government. Fast and Furious was not."

 

[In Lou I Trust]

I have more faith in a president who ahd to work his way up from the ghetto and drug life to the highest position in the US than someone who had fortune forge his way to the top. (fortune as in luck to be born to a rich father)

Ghetto? Drug life? I'll admit I'm not an Obama historian but didn't he attend a private preparatory school?

 

[DSully1995]

Quick question: Why would someone ever do this? It has no real gain ( unlike the ***** transactions) and can only **** on your chances of reelection.

 

[DSully1995]

Ghetto? Drug life? I'll admit I'm not an Obama historian but didn't he attend a private preparatory school?

Neither am I but didnt he grow with a single mother and he has admitted to drug use.

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/9jlEPSewLuk" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

 

[RDU Irish]

Step one - Legalize drugs. Treat it as the health issue it is instead of a criminal one. This cuts the money out from under the drug cartels overnight.
Step two - Transfer troops from Middle East borders and put them on our border and get control of who is coming and going from our country.

Look at all the money I just saved our country!

 

[RDU Irish]

Neither am I but didnt he grow with a single mother and he has admitted to drug use.

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/9jlEPSewLuk" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Yes he admitted to drug use, including cocaine, all in his book. I wasn't aware that all single mothers and drug use was relegated to "ghettos." Was Clinton in the ghetto when he didn't inhale then? But it is all OK because they didn't get caught, right?

Drug laws are counterproductive and unAmerican.

 

[Buster Bluth]

LoLOLWug

I have more faith in a president who ahd to work his way up from the ghetto and drug life to the highest position in the US than someone who had fortune forge his way to the top. (fortune as in luck to be born to a rich father)

LOL WUT????

Obama went to a high school that has a tuition cost of $19,000. GHETTO?? DRUG LIFE?? What drugs are you on--he was a free lovin' typical liberal hippie of his day. Lololol

 

[DSully1995]

Yes he admitted to drug use, including cocaine, all in his book. I wasn't aware that all single mothers and drug use was relegated to "ghettos." Was Clinton in the ghetto when he didn't inhale then? But it is all OK because they didn't get caught, right?

Drug laws are counterproductive and unAmerican.

Ill be the last person to defend the US drug laws, why should you have to pay for someone else's drug problem, and with weed its barely a problem

 

[Buster Bluth]

Neither am I but didnt he grow with a single mother and he has admitted to drug use.

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/9jlEPSewLuk" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

And that makes him more qualified to be President???

Let's see this logic: single mother/previous drug use >> successful Governor father/graduatdd top 5% of his class from Harvard Business and Harvard Law at the same time...

 

[PerthDomer]

Obama went to an elite private school and enjoyed nose candy and reefer. That screams child of privilege to me but I guess that makes me insensitive and racist...

 

[DSully1995]

howd he pay for that being raised by a single mother?

 

[GoldenIsThyFame]

What the hell is with all these political threads lately.

Frankly I find it deplorable that you all want to talk politics on a football message board.

 

[Rhode Irish]

Comparing this to Watergate seems ridiculous to me. I'm not too bothered by this story. It wasn't the smartest operation in world history, but that isn't the first time we've been involved with a dumb operation. Voting to hold the AG of the United States in contempt of Congress is embarrassing.

People will be outraged about anything if it benefits them politically to be outraged, I guess. I don't see this as a political issue.

 

[irishpat183]

I have more faith in a president who ahd to work his way up from the ghetto and drug life to the highest position in the US than someone who had fortune forge his way to the top. (fortune as in luck to be born to a rich father)

And who would that be?

No president has "worked his way up from the ghetto or drug life"

Unless you count Obama's pot smoking in college as "drug life".

Good lord.

 

[irishpat183]

What the hell is with all these political threads lately.

Frankly I find it deplorable that you all want to talk politics on a football message board.

Beats tweeting recruits! LOL

 

[irishpat183]

howd he pay for that being raised by a single mother?

Classic example of what Obama wants of his voting block.

To think that he's "one of us".....

He's not. And never has been. Private school kid with upper middle class up bringing.

There were no "ghettos" in his history

 

[sfk324]

I don't know about being Watergate-level yet, because technically we don't know yet if the President isn't hiding a crime. (We'll never know whether Holder committed perjury, because he's hiding the documents that can show what he knew and when he knew it.)

But one thing's for sure: Obama's improperly invoking Executive Privilege to hide his own (and Holder's) knowledge and involvement.

Many hidden documents requested regarding F&F relate to the program's origination and who-knew-what-and-when. That is, they were created before the House had any involvement whatsoever.

So for Obama to say that the docs are privileged b/c they relate to "Executive strategies" in dealing with the Congressional hearings is patently absurd. It only makes sense if the DOJ and President are (1) psychic and (2) discussed strategies in every oneof the 10,000+ documents.

Where was this cited as the basis for the claim of privilege? I haven't seen it anywhere. All signs point to the basis being the executive agency's need to be able to conduct its internal investigation with its employees and decision makers. The WH is claiming, and probably with merit, that release of the documents will beget reluctance (if not outright refusal) to participate in internal inquiries on the part of executive branch employees in the future.

Honestly, this is entirely a fishing expedition on the part of Issa. If he cared that much about the truth of the circumstances of someone's death, he would have been out front on Tillman's death too. But he wasn't. He, and the rest of the Republicans on that committee, did anything and everything to downplay the Bush Administration's handling of the Tillman case.

This has little to no resemblance to Watergate and a sadly striking similarity to the Tillman case.

 

[woolybug25]

What the hell is with all these political threads lately.

Frankly I find it deplorable that you all want to talk politics on a football message board.

Totally agree. I am sick and tired of coming to a board about Notre Dame and having to sift through all of the political crap. If I wanted to talk politics, I would go somewhere else. I have a feeling that if something isn't done, this site is going to get unbearable with all of the political bull$hit as we move through the election cycle. I will simply start reading a different board, which is sad, because I love this place.

I hope the mods step in and start telling all the booger eaters on this board to talk politics elsewhere. I read this board to get away from crap like politics.

 

[DSully1995]

Classic example of what Obama wants of his voting block.

To think that he's "one of us".....

He's not. And never has been. Private school kid with upper middle class up bringing.

There were no "ghettos" in his history

Doesnt answer my question however, howd his single mother pay for a elite private school?