Why not a title this year?

[coachjohnson]

Let's here about all the reasons our Irish cannot win a title. I know all the reasons we could, but so many love the negative so let's hear it.

 

[notredomer23]

We do not have the quality depth to get past USC. We will be good and very very improved, but we are one year away from being ELITE

 

[irishmarine]

after this class we will be elite. and deep. and then come the rings (shining light from above) aaaahhhhhhhh

 

[coachjohnson]

A year away, sounds like 88'. All we have to do is be better than USC one day this year, on the day we play them. We are certainly due aren't we?

 

[irishmarine]

hell yeah. evryone out here is a usc fan. i hate these people.

 

[coachjohnson]

Irishmarine, you are very unfortunate that you do live around so many USC fans. I don't know that I could take it. I live about three hours from knoxville, TN, so I hear about the Vols all the time. Of course I would rather hear about them than USC. I do run into alot of Michigan fans, but I run them off with a simple and quick choice of words- Appalachian State

 

[LOVEMYIRISH]

Let's here about all the reasons our Irish cannot win a title. I know all the reasons we could, but so many love the negative so let's hear it.

Son...I want the Kool-Aid you are drinking.

 

[coachjohnson]

Kool aid is a good choice of beverage isn't it?

 

[irishmarine]

at least in tenn there are some cute girls with that southern accent. im in vegas surrounded by strippers and std's. hahahaha

 

[GoldenDomer21]

Oh come on guys! We could go undefeated this year and still not be in the title hunt. Think Hawaii last year. Only undefeated team and didn't get to play for the title. Using the BCS system our schedule this year doesn't facilitate playing in the NC game. WE DON'T PLAY ANYBODY! Basically the BCS wont allow it. And even if we did go undefeated, I don't want to get embarrassed by another horrible bowl loss.
Here's another point, depth. We don't have it. We're about as deep as a petri dish right now and its going to sting us, if not in the regular season, then in the post season against a team that is truly NC material. Experience, again, one year for most these guys. I know, everyone here is going to site 1988, but this isn't the 88 team, and this isn't 1988 NCAA football.
I want a NC more than anyone, I expect nothing less every year. And its not so much as I think they can't do it, it's that the system just won't allow it. Put us in a tourny system and I think we'd have a shot. An undefeated system would get us top 8, but not top 2, not this year. But I think waiting for the right time is better than hurrying it. I'd like to see a good solid season, 9 + wins, and a bowl win! Then, if the new AD has his/her head on right, we'll start playing some talented teams that will lead us to those coveted NC's we're all talking about.
Stay positive everyone, its a huge long shot this year, but the next few are going to be very exciting for all of us!

 

[bert2834]

I agree with GoldenDomer, I don't think we deserve to get to the National Championship even if we go undefeated. Our schedule is weak and our ranking right now is somwhere in the 50's I would say. (just a guess on ranking)

 

[goldandblue]

I'm guessing worse than that. I'm not that concerned with a NC this year. What I want to see this year is a O-line that can run, pass block and pick up the blitz. I also what to see a defense that attacks like a swarm of pissed off fire ants. 8 or 9 regular season wins and a bowl game win.

 

[notredomer23]

PLEASE!!!! if we go into SC undefeated and by miracle we beat them then we are definitley going to the NC because then its most likely 11-0 Notre Dame vs 11-0 USC Dont give me shit that our schedule isnt tough enough. Is it Difficult? no. Is it easy? No too. We play some quality teams in USC, MSU, maybe Pitt, maybe NC. and another reason why we would go to the NC even if our schedule is weak, we ARE ND. The name itself is one major reason.

 

[GoldenDomer21]

PLEASE!!!! if we go into SC undefeated and by miracle we beat them then we are definitley going to the NC because then its most likely 11-0 Notre Dame vs 11-0 USC Dont give me shit that our schedule isnt tough enough. Is it Difficult? no. Is it easy? No too. We play some quality teams in USC, MSU, maybe Pitt, maybe NC. and another reason why we would go to the NC even if our schedule is weak, we ARE ND. The name itself is one major reason.

I don't want to go to the title game just because we're ND! It's that statement right there that causes people to either love or HATE us. People always bitching, you only went because your ND. I preach this day in and day out no matter who I'm talking to. I want to go to a title game because we DESERVE to be there! Who feels good about going to the title just because your someone? Nobody...Notredomer, you named a mere 2 "quality" teams. and a couple of maybes. Can anybody, HONESTLY, say that thats a quality schedule that allows a team to go to the NC? That allows those stupid BCS calculators to chime up and say, yup, ND goes... I can't, and I'm as die hard as anyone. Furthermore, I don't want to play this lame schedule and go play in the NC against a SEC team thats played 4 top 15 teams and probably 2 other teams that have been or are ranked. Can you spell bowl Blowout? Again...
This years schedule is a great schedule to turn around the program, get the new guys some much needed experience on the field, and build confidence. In order to play for NC we need to play tougher teams. Period. At least 5 to 7, not 2 and a couple of maybes, quality teams. Playing teams like that shut people up. Playing teams like that make the BCS calculator happy. Playing teams like that make us tough enough to win bowls.
I want it, but its not this year. Undefeated or not, it's not this year.

 

[ant80]

I appreciate what you are saying GoldenDomer, but what you think doesn't matter. ND will eternally be the school that goes to a bowl game a leage above its own. It's what the media and the country thinks that matter. If ND goes undefeated, ND is going to the NC game, period.

And for the one that initiated this post, YOU are the reason why people talk about the "holier than thou" mentality of ND fans.

 

[notredomer23]

I don't want to go to the title game just because we're ND! It's that statement right there that causes people to either love or HATE us. People always bitching, you only went because your ND. I preach this day in and day out no matter who I'm talking to. I want to go to a title game because we DESERVE to be there! Who feels good about going to the title just because your someone? Nobody...Notredomer, you named a mere 2 "quality" teams. and a couple of maybes. Can anybody, HONESTLY, say that thats a quality schedule that allows a team to go to the NC? That allows those stupid BCS calculators to chime up and say, yup, ND goes... I can't, and I'm as die hard as anyone. Furthermore, I don't want to play this lame schedule and go play in the NC against a SEC team thats played 4 top 15 teams and probably 2 other teams that have been or are ranked. Can you spell bowl Blowout? Again...
This years schedule is a great schedule to turn around the program, get the new guys some much needed experience on the field, and build confidence. In order to play for NC we need to play tougher teams. Period. At least 5 to 7, not 2 and a couple of maybes, quality teams. Playing teams like that shut people up. Playing teams like that make the BCS calculator happy. Playing teams like that make us tough enough to win bowls.
I want it, but its not this year. Undefeated or not, it's not this year.

name two quality teams that hawaii played last year and beat. you cant. If notre dame beats USC, and we are undfefeated there is something majorly wrong with the system if we werent to be in the NC

 

[IrishinTN]

I appreciate what you are saying GoldenDomer, but what you think doesn't matter. ND will eternally be the school that goes to a bowl game a leage above its own. It's what the media and the country thinks that matter. If ND goes undefeated, ND is going to the NC game, period.

And for the one that initiated this post, YOU are the reason why people talk about the "holier than thou" mentality of ND fans.

I don't think you completely understood him, Ant. I think he actually does want to know why ND won't go this year, so people have supplied him with ample reasons why that won't (and possibly should not?) happen this year. I for one do not want them to go if there are other more deserving teams who have played harder schedules. Although it always seems that someone gets screwed in this system no matter what.

 

[IrishAlum1997]

I don't know that our schedule is as 'easy' as we all think it is...I do hear Aztec fever is going around right now. There are some 'buzz' teams on our schedule right now, I think Washington, UNC, and MSU on the road are quality wins, and any time you play scUM and U$C you gain credibility. With McCoy getting some Heisman buzz at Pitt, that game does not seem like so much of a walkover. BC is always a tough game. How is our schedule any worse than a Big-10 schedule? OSU has proven 2 years straight that a Big-10 schedule can get you to the BCS title game.

Why not us? I like it coachjohnson!

 

[coachjohnson]

Ant80- Cool out dude.

 

[GoldenDomer21]

It's what the media and the country thinks that matter. If ND goes undefeated, ND is going to the NC game, period. /QUOTE]

Yeah, it may be the media, coaches, and football professionals that decided who goes and who doesn't. But I like to think I have a little more pride in my team than others. I don't want them to make it to the NC game by playing slack off teams. I would rather EARN it. And as for them making it if they go undefeated, you never know, 6 teams may go undefeated this year. But it only takes 3 undefeated teams for one team to get screwed. And what do you think the tie breaker is in this case? Yeah, thats it, schedule strength. Who played whom, beat them by how much, and how did those teams go on to do?
My opinion may count for little. But I like to think MOST ND fans would rather make it by winning close games with really great teams than by beating the shit out of mediocre teams.
As for being holier than thou...Its not a bad thing, if you play the teams to back it up.

 

[irishmarine]

we do need to play some top caliber teams but a 12 gane schedule against conference contenders is a bit much. i would like to see them play a hard schedule but not a suicidal one

 

[Jason Pham]

I think his (ant80) point is, and I agree wholeheartedly as it has lead us to two BCS games in which we were outplayed, that if Notre Dame does go undefeated, especially considering our annual games against top tier teams such as USC and UM, our namesake alone gives us an advantage in the rankings. Do teams often get screwed out of BCS bowl games ? Yes, but it's often at their expense that we make thse bowls.

And just to make a point about how many ranked teams it takes to make it to the title game: Ohio State made it to the NC game last season playing three ranked teams, none of which were ranked higher than 20th. The season before that, the Buckeyes played four ranked teams, three of which were top 15. During tOSU's 2002 National Title run, they faced, again, three ranked teams.

 

[GoldenDomer21]

I don't think its suicidal. Yeah, there are a lot of contenders. But, why not? I didn't say it was going to be easy. Its going to be hard as hell! But think of the season where 6 games are played against contenders. Holy crap, every game means something. Every game is jumping, screaming, smiling, pissing your pants excitement. Every game is 2005 USC vs ND. That's a whole other world of excitement for an entire season, week in and week out.
On top of that, you get to shut a few mouths...I like that idea

 

[LOVEMYIRISH]

I don't think its suicidal. Yeah, there are a lot of contenders. But, why not? I didn't say it was going to be easy. Its going to be hard as hell! But think of the season where 6 games are played against contenders. Holy crap, every game means something. Every game is jumping, screaming, smiling, pissing your pants excitement. Every game is 2005 USC vs ND. That's a whole other world of excitement for an entire season, week in and week out.
On top of that, you get to shut a few mouths...I like that idea

No team could do it. Think of all the seasons at ND that were ruined by 1 or 2 losses. Think of some of the most dominant seasons (1993 etc.).

It's not suicidal. It would just guarantee that we are never going to get an NC again.

 

[GoldenDomer21]

93 was ruined because after beating a top team, we lost to a mediocre BC. Had we played another top team instead. We'd have had the championship. And this is football, there are no guarantees. Div 2 teams beat top 5 ranked teams. So lets not deal in absolutes. I don't like that. Every game is a 50 - 50 shot at winning. No matter who you play.

 

[LOVEMYIRISH]

93 was ruined because after beating a top team, we lost to a mediocre BC. Had we played another top team instead. We'd have had the championship. And this is football, there are no guarantees. Div 2 teams beat top 5 ranked teams. So lets not deal in absolutes. I don't like that. Every game is a 50 - 50 shot at winning. No matter who you play.

However, if you had substituted some of the crappy teams we played that year with top teams we would have lost another game...and thus no shot whatsoever.

Basically you want to make the schedule so hard that we will lose 2 games every year. Even the best ND teams in history would not be able to win the schedule you are proposing, thus if we had those schedules we would have less Championships than we do today.

I don't see the point in that at all.

 

[GoldenDomer21]

However, if you had substituted some of the crappy teams we played that year with top teams we would have lost another game...and thus no shot whatsoever.

Basically you want to make the schedule so hard that we will lose 2 games every year. Even the best ND teams in history would not be able to win the schedule you are proposing, thus if we had those schedules we would have less Championships than we do today.

I don't see the point in that at all.

I disagree. The BCS is built on the idea that if you beat a team at a certain level then you are better than all the teams below them. ei. if you beat the number one team then you should logically be able to beat all the teams. So, playing top teams just means you play top teams, and if ND has a top team, and wins, it just means that they are THE top team. I realise full well it would be hard as hell. But saying that by playing more top teams we are definatly going to lose more games is a stretch.

 

[Freeman Ara]

I disagree. The BCS is built on the idea that if you beat a team at a certain level then you are better than all the teams below them. ei. if you beat the number one team then you should logically be able to beat all the teams. So, playing top teams just means you play top teams, and if ND has a top team, and wins, it just means that they are THE top team. I realise full well it would be hard as hell. But saying that by playing more top teams we are definatly going to lose more games is a stretch.

Basically what I am getting is you would rather have 6,7, or even 8 great battles then win one great war. The idea is to win National Titles not prove that we can play with the best 8 teams every year. We have a schedule in most years where very few people that know football could argue against us if we went undefeated. Plus, in today's day an age any team that goes undefeated against a relatively tough schedule deserves a shot at a NC(this doesn't include Hawaii). Now as far as saying that every game is a 50/50 proposition win or lose, think of it this way. You can play 12 teams that are at or around the same talent level of USC or twelve teams at or around the talent level of Duke? Which schedule gives you the best chance to win the most games? The trick is to find a good blend, and overall I think we have that in most years.

 

[IrishFaninTX]

In a way, I do wish this season had some tougher teams. I mean, yeah, we have USC which is always a tough one, but other than that, I can't think of a single team on that schedule that is Top 15. I think we need to at least play 2 top 15 teams and 2-3 more top 25 teams a year to earn being in the NC game. The problem is that we and the players can't help what the schedule is. It's not their fault and it's not our fault that someone higher up schedules all the cream puff teams. And another point is that teams that are good now, may be horrible in 3 years. 2 years ago, playing ND would have been a great game for any team. Last year, we were considered the cream puff team! So, you never know. Sure, we could schedule LSU and Florida for 3 years from now, but they may suck then. Michigan and BC were awesome the last couple of years, but may be only mediocre this year. That is why I get so mad when others criticize the schedule for this year. Last year, half of those teams were in the top 25 for most of the season. This year, most of them won't see the top 25 at all.

On the other hand, we have a young, mostly inexperienced (1 year getting hammered is not enough experience in my book) team and I would like them to get some confidence beating some teams, so if the schedule needs to be a little softer for them to do that, then that is okay for me. This year. Next year should be THE YEAR, but I am worried that we won't even get a shot at the NC because of the schedule. If Jimmy is all that like the hype indicated when he was recruited, then he should be an outstanding QB by his junior year. That is the year BQ stepped up and made things happen for ND and he also played all 4 years for ND, so I think JC can do it by 2009. And the backs and receivers will also have another year of experience and to me, they look pretty good now, just think what 1 more year could do for them! So, I would hate for them to go undefeated in 2009, knowing they have a kick-a$$ team, and not get credit for it and not go to the NC game. So, I hope they are able to add at least 1 more elite team to the schedule for 2009 and 2010. I think playing USC and one other elite team and then 2-3 good teams and winning would make people shut up and listen. Well, that is my 2 cents.

 

[GoldenDomer21]

In a way, I do wish this season had some tougher teams. I mean, yeah, we have USC which is always a tough one, but other than that, I can't think of a single team on that schedule that is Top 15. I think we need to at least play 2 top 15 teams and 2-3 more top 25 teams a year to earn being in the NC game. The problem is that we and the players can't help what the schedule is. It's not their fault and it's not our fault that someone higher up schedules all the cream puff teams. And another point is that teams that are good now, may be horrible in 3 years. 2 years ago, playing ND would have been a great game for any team. Last year, we were considered the cream puff team! So, you never know. Sure, we could schedule LSU and Florida for 3 years from now, but they may suck then. Michigan and BC were awesome the last couple of years, but may be only mediocre this year. That is why I get so mad when others criticize the schedule for this year. Last year, half of those teams were in the top 25 for most of the season. This year, most of them won't see the top 25 at all.

On the other hand, we have a young, mostly inexperienced (1 year getting hammered is not enough experience in my book) team and I would like them to get some confidence beating some teams, so if the schedule needs to be a little softer for them to do that, then that is okay for me. This year. Next year should be THE YEAR, but I am worried that we won't even get a shot at the NC because of the schedule. If Jimmy is all that like the hype indicated when he was recruited, then he should be an outstanding QB by his junior year. That is the year BQ stepped up and made things happen for ND and he also played all 4 years for ND, so I think JC can do it by 2009. And the backs and receivers will also have another year of experience and to me, they look pretty good now, just think what 1 more year could do for them! So, I would hate for them to go undefeated in 2009, knowing they have a kick-a$$ team, and not get credit for it and not go to the NC game. So, I hope they are able to add at least 1 more elite team to the schedule for 2009 and 2010. I think playing USC and one other elite team and then 2-3 good teams and winning would make people shut up and listen. Well, that is my 2 cents.

I totally agree with you last paragraph. I think THIS YEAR we actually need the cream puff schedule because we had such a crappy year last year and we need the confidence and experience. But say we have an awesome up and coming team but don't play anybody next year to prove. we end up not winning a NC in that scenario either.

I am getting that we need a fine blend between hard teams and cream puffs. But I think, and its because we're ND, we need a slightly higher percentage of harder teams than the average good team out there. 6 to 7 top 25 teams distributed like this: 1 top 5, 1 top 10, 2 top 15 and 2 or 3 more top 25. And then just play solid middle weight teams like Washington, ASU, some middle weight SEC teams.