Who's Next? - 2019 Edition

[Luckylucci]

For the most part I agree. I would probably go with an ideal 3WRs / TEs per year. I was surprised we took so many WRs last year, and probably more surprised they are keeping Wilkins on the O side of the ball. They must be really happy with the 3 CBs and 3 Ss they have. I think my biggest concern with D numbers is at CB and DE.

The real numbers will probably be 1.5/2.5, but for the sake of this conversation, you can't recruit a half a player. So, hypothetically, it probably looks a lot like 2Te's/2WR's. Next year is 1 TE/ 3 WR's. Next is 2 TE's/ 2 WR's. Next is 1 TE/3 WR's. So you end up with a depth chart of 6 TE's and 10 WR's. Don't think you need much more than a 3 deep of 3 WR sets when 2 TE's are on the field so much.

 

[Irish YJ]

I agree Bilal will come back and I think he may move to Buck so Simon can get PT at Rover. Maybe even Simon goes to Buck, who knows.

I think it's more realistic that Bilal moves. I'm far from an expert in the LB space, but I think a move of Bilal makes the most sense. I think we see a lot of Bauer and Simon next year. I was skeptical of moving Drue this year, but Clark obviously knew exactly what he was doing. I'll trust that he'll get the best guys on the field, regardless of what they do with Bilal.

 

[Irish YJ]

The real numbers will probably be 1.5/2.5, but for the sake of this conversation, you can't recruit a half a player. So, hypothetically, it probably looks a lot like 2Te's/2WR's. Next year is 1 TE/ 3 WR's. Next is 2 TE's/ 2 WR's. Next is 1 TE/3 WR's. So you end up with a depth chart of 6 TE's and 10 WR's. Don't think you need much more than a 3 deep of 3 WR sets when 2 TE's are on the field so much.

Makes sense. I just hope we can start getting some top 10 WRs to go with all the top 10 TEs we get.

 

[irishog77]

Good reviews by all ND media members as well as the staffs endorsements on what they saw in fall camp from those guys. 4 of the 5 have only been in the program for 4 months. They probably don't even understand the whole offense at this point. Certainly give them an offseason before recruiting over them. A vast majority of the 19' WR's will be in the same spot they are, but next year.

How would a player in the 19' class help them win this year? It won't matter until next season and then we'd be in the same boat as we are now. We lose very little at WR. Except the sophomore class will be added fully to the depth chart. We have a substantially better chance at getting the sophomore class to grow and build that depth than we do of bringing in a day 1 player in the 19' class.

And where in the world did you come up with those numbers. Roster management matters as soon as that kid is on campus, because you know, he gets a scholarship. Right now, between the 18' and 19' classes we are at 7 WR's which is more than we should bring in over 2 cycles. I don't think adding 8 WR's over 2 classes is good roster management for the next season. When the staff probably wants to target 3, that'd be 11 over 3.

From what I've read the staff doesn't agree with this. Obviously the staff would bring in an elite WR. But that's highly unlikely, grabbing a "quality" player doesn't do anything to change your concerns. It just creates a scholarship glut.

Ah, so WR's are good because of "reports." We've gotten lots of good reports from media and coaches over the years. Pick virtually any player on ND's roster and we can find a good report about them. I'll go with film and production over reports any day. These guys have none, because they aren't that good. Can they be? Sure, we will have to wait and see. Additionally, the film and production of the current WR's playing isn't all that great either (save for Boykin's 1 game). Hopefully that changes (and should) though with Book playing QB now.

A '19 WR won't help the team this year. My point there was that the staff isn't playing the '18 WR's now. They want to win now, and 4 out of those 5 guys aren't playing at all, and the 5th plays sparingly. Again, and back to my OP, I'm not as certain as you about the '18 WR's being able to "really play."

What numbers?? I didn't use any. I'm also aware of how and when scholarship numbers count.

Again, back to my OP, if the current '18 WR's "can really play" why aren't they? Even on ST? Coaches want to win. They're not saving redshirts to try and help them win in 4 or 5 years.

You restated my OP, which was "I would think if a quality WR wants to get on board for '19, the staff would be willing to take one." And based on current WR play, they'd be foolish not to do so. Nothing more, nothing less. Quality WR play is my only concern, and guys not good enough to play don't ease that concern. Yes, they're young and I'm not writing any or all of them off. I simply am not willing to already concede that the young guys "can really play."

 

[Luckylucci]

Ah, so WR's are good because of "reports." We've gotten lots of good reports from media and coaches over the years. Pick virtually any player on ND's roster and we can find a good report about them. I'll go with film and production over reports any day. These guys have none, because they aren't that good. Can they be? Sure, we will have to wait and see. Additionally, the film and production of the current WR's playing isn't all that great either (save for Boykin's 1 game). Hopefully that changes (and should) though with Book playing QB now.

A '19 WR won't help the team this year. My point there was that the staff isn't playing the '18 WR's now. They want to win now, and 4 out of those 5 guys aren't playing at all, and the 5th plays sparingly. Again, and back to my OP, I'm not as certain as you about the '18 WR's being able to "really play."

What numbers?? I didn't use any. I'm also aware of how and when scholarship numbers count.

Again, back to my OP, if the current '18 WR's "can really play" why aren't they? Even on ST? Coaches want to win. They're not saving redshirts to try and help them win in 4 or 5 years.

You restated my OP, which was "I would think if a quality WR wants to get on board for '19, the staff would be willing to take one." And based on current WR play, they'd be foolish not to do so. Nothing more, nothing less. Quality WR play is my only concern, and guys not good enough to play don't ease that concern. Yes, they're young and I'm not writing any or all of them off. I simply am not willing to already concede that the young guys "can really play."

Ha, obviously the 19' WR's don't have this either, so why would this even enter into the discussion.

Too much to unpack here, not worth it. This is going nowhere as we are now just ignoring basics of roster management and player development.

 

[irishog77]

Ha, obviously the 19' WR's don't have this either, so why would this even enter into the discussion.

Too much to unpack here, not worth it. This is going nowhere as we are now just ignoring basics of roster management and player development.

1) Ha- it didn't.

2) I'm not ignoring anything. You are ignoring the fact that you claimed the '18 WR's "can really play." I merely suggested that obviously they can't right now, and may not be able to down the line.

If a big time WR recruit starts sniffing around ND (which is a possibility since ND could put together a strong season and it seems they have a QB can who actually throw the football), the staff should probably take him. I doubt they'll consult you for your views on roster management. They switch versatile players around yearly, guys get home sick and leave, guys get kicked out of school, they oversign position groups almost annually, and some guys never develop.

 

[NDIrish88]

I think it's more realistic that Bilal moves. I'm far from an expert in the LB space, but I think a move of Bilal makes the most sense. I think we see a lot of Bauer and Simon next year. I was skeptical of moving Drue this year, but Clark obviously knew exactly what he was doing. I'll trust that he'll get the best guys on the field, regardless of what they do with Bilal.

I am comfortable with Bilal and Simon. Bauer is good but not Coney good. . . yet anyway. Maybe Lamb really adds weight in the off season to play Mike or Jones beats out Bo in depth chart.

 

[Irish YJ]

I am comfortable with Bilal and Simon. Bauer is good but not Coney good. . . yet anyway. Maybe Lamb really adds weight in the off season to play Mike or Jones beats out Bo in depth chart.

Bauer looked like a stud a few weeks ago. Not saying he will start, but we're going to see a lot of him IMO. The thing that scares me about Bilal, is.... It's one thing to raise the level of your play when you are surrounded by great talent, and you're not the one leading. It's another thing to all of sudden be the returning starter, have to lead, and have two new young guys in your unit.

 

[NDIrish88]

Bauer looked like a stud a few weeks ago. Not saying he will start, but we're going to see a lot of him IMO. The thing that scares me about Bilal, is.... It's one thing to raise the level of your play when you are surrounded by great talent, and you're not the one leading. It's another thing to all of sudden be the returning starter, have to lead, and have two new young guys in your unit.

Great point but maybe Bo will lead. Seems like he is that type of guy anyway. Also Somebody else could take that mantle next year on D. Love, Gilman . .

 

[Irish YJ]

Great point but maybe Bo will lead. Seems like he is that type of guy anyway. Also Somebody else could take that mantle next year on D. Love, Gilman . .

I think Gilman already leads in general. I think though it's vital to have a unit leader. And I think the LB unit is probably the most critical (in terms of leadership) on the D.

I think Bo will end up being a leader. It would not shock me if he stepped up early, but I hate to force fit the "leader" title on an underclassman.

 

[zelezo vlk]

I think Gilman already leads in general. I think though it's vital to have a unit leader. And I think the LB unit is probably the most critical (in terms of leadership) on the D.

I think Bo will end up being a leader. It would not shock me if he stepped up early, but I hate to force fit the "leader" title on an underclassman.

Maybe JGH or Jonathon Jones will take up the mantle? Just because Bilal will have the most experience doesn't mean he needs to be the vocal leader.

 

[Irish YJ]

Maybe JGH or Jonathon Jones will take up the mantle? Just because Bilal will have the most experience doesn't mean he needs to be the vocal leader.

Agree. Actually I don't know what Bilal's ceiling is performance, or leadership wise.

 

[RDU Irish]

1) Ha- it didn't.

2) I'm not ignoring anything. You are ignoring the fact that you claimed the '18 WR's "can really play." I merely suggested that obviously they can't right now, and may not be able to down the line.

If a big time WR recruit starts sniffing around ND (which is a possibility since ND could put together a strong season and it seems they have a QB can who actually throw the football), the staff should probably take him. I doubt they'll consult you for your views on roster management. They switch versatile players around yearly, guys get home sick and leave, guys get kicked out of school, they oversign position groups almost annually, and some guys never develop.

This is what baffles me a bit. I would expect we get some traction with some 5* offensive specialists - last couple years RB should have seen our OL recruiting + development and seen opportunities. No surprise WRs run the other way with the worst P5 passing QB seemingly cemented into the starting lineup and we have had QB consistency for ages. Maybe the RBs are also turned off by that. NOW - if Book keeps on pace this year, with Phil in the wings... some high profile guys should see a great opportunity to become nationally legendary.

 

[RDU Irish]

Agree. Actually I don't know what Bilal's ceiling is performance, or leadership wise.

He has been an afterthought for me - until the last few weeks where he has looked like a monster out there. Seems to have all the physical tools for a pretty damn high ceiling.

 

[zelezo vlk]

This is what baffles me a bit. I would expect we get some traction with some 5* offensive specialists - last couple years RB should have seen our OL recruiting + development and seen opportunities. No surprise WRs run the other way with the worst P5 passing QB seemingly cemented into the starting lineup and we have had QB consistency for ages. Maybe the RBs are also turned off by that. NOW - if Book keeps on pace this year, with Phil in the wings... some high profile guys should see a great opportunity to become nationally legendary.

The guys at ISD think the winning needs to keep coming a bit and then the big fish will start really taking the success seriously. However, they have confirmed that the staff has been in the ear of some guys. We'll just need to wait and see. No names so far, though Matt Freeman reminded us that everybody wanted that RB from Mississippi, but who knows if he'd be interested.

He has been an afterthought for me - until the last few weeks where he has looked like a monster out there. Seems to have all the physical tools for a pretty damn high ceiling.

If y'all remember, Bilal was seen as having the highest ceiling of those 2015 LBs, almost like a mini Jaylon. I'm glad the light has gone on for him.

 

[Irish YJ]

He has been an afterthought for me - until the last few weeks where he has looked like a monster out there. Seems to have all the physical tools for a pretty damn high ceiling.

Same here...

I was a big fan when we signed him. Definitely has the physical tools. He somehow just faded or was slow to develop. I wish Ewell would surprise lol.

 

[Rizzophil]

Soooooooo to title

Any updates on timeline for Brice and Rutherford?

 

[General Colon Bowel]

They could absolutely use a 5* recruit but who doesn’t need one?? I think ND is just fine at the WR position as long as they can pull in 4* recruits and maybe compete for the occasional 5* like an AJ Henning. Also you need to realize where 5* wide receivers are born and raised because I don’t know off the top of my head but I’d guess the vast majority don’t come from the Midwest and most likely come from California, Florida, and Texas which means they stay in those areas.

I don't think we really need to focus on getting 5 stars at wide receiver. WR is one of the positions that has the lowest correlation between ranking and success.

If you look back at the 247 composite 5 star WRs from 2009-2015, you'll see that:

- 8 completely lived up to expectations (Rueben Randle, Jarvis Landry, Sammy Watkins, Stefon Diggs, Laquon Treadwell, KD Cannon, Calvin Ridley, Christian Kirk)

- 2 had one great year for their schools, but couldn't stay out of trouble and were booted (Da'Rick Rodgers & Green-Beckham)

- 3 were solid, but unspectacular. Led their teams in receiving at one point, but never really grew into the studs that they were expected to be (Mike Davis, Malchi Dupre, Deon Cain)

- 13 failed to live up to expectations, many of which transferred, got into legal trouble, or switched positions to try to get playing time. (Andre Debose, Marlon Brown, Kyle Prater, Darius White, George Farmer, Trey Metoyer, Thomas Johnson, Robert Foster, Robbie Rhodes, Jalin Marshall, Speedy Noil, Ermon Lane, George Campbell)

- 1 transferred and the jury is still out (Tyron Johnson, currently starting at Ok State after transferring from LSU)

You are right about 5 star WRs being mostly from the same area though - of the 27 guys mentioned above, 17 were from FL, LA, or TX

 

[Luckylucci]

Soooooooo to title

Any updates on timeline for Brice and Rutherford?

Trice is Saturday and Rutherford could be at anytime. He's done with visits. So it's just criss/cross apple sauce until he's ready.

 

[NDMIA]

Trice is Saturday and Rutherford could be at anytime. He's done with visits. So it's just criss/cross apple sauce until he's ready.

Isaiah Rutherford has taken fall visits to ND and Colorado but not to Oregon & Cal. So has he mentioned that he’s done taking visits? I know he’s been to Oregon and Cal before but I was wondering if he said he doesn’t need to see anything else in which case I’d say huge advantage to Notre Dame!

 

[Luckylucci]

Isaiah Rutherford has taken fall visits to ND and Colorado but not to Oregon & Cal. So has he mentioned that he’s done taking visits? I know he’s been to Oregon and Cal before but I was wondering if he said he doesn’t need to see anything else in which case I’d say huge advantage to Notre Dame!

He cancelled his Oregon visit and there is speculation that was because he was close to ending it. But he personally hasn't said that, most kids don't, want to keep some suspense and all. I would assume the flood of CB's means there is something going on behind the scenes.

 

[NDMIA]

He cancelled his Oregon visit and there is speculation that was because he was close to ending it. But he personally hasn't said that, most kids don't, want to keep some suspense and all. I would assume the flood of CB's means there is something going on behind the scenes.

Thanks for the intel. It sure seems like a great situation at ND where in his first or second year both cornerback spots will be open to compete for, not that we want a freshman playing there but there’s playing time available probably early in his career and Todd Lyght seems to be working wonders with the cornerbacks.

 

[irish2018]

19.CB Rutherford( silent) 20.DL Bralen Trice .....Preferences thereafter 21. DL Foskey( and bring along his OLB Henry To'oto'o--still uncommitted) ......[WR Gerson, K Leonard ,OL Vimahi caught up in the uncertain numbers right now]

 

[NDMIA]

19.CB Rutherford( silent) 20.DL Bralen Trice .....Preferences thereafter 21. DL Foskey( and bring along his OLB Henry To'oto'o--still uncommitted) ......[WR Gerson, K Leonard ,OL Vimahi caught up in the uncertain numbers right now]

19. DB Isaiah Rutherford
20. DL Bralen Trice
21. DL (Isaiah Foskey or flip candidate)
22. LB (Shammond Cooper when Lovie gets fired, Jared Casey, Cameron Williams, Tommy Eichenberg)
23. [if necessary] OL/WR (Enokk Vimahi, Cornelius Johnson, flip candidate)

I would love to see Rutherford and Trice pop sooner rather than later and then the staff can focus on the last two or three spots. I'd love to see one more defensive lineman on top of Trice make it to the class. Whether that be a DT or a DE I don't know but as long as they are talented then that would be awesome. Linebacker I think is 4th in line of need because ND has a host of numbers at the position, but I'd like to see if ND could sneak in one more guy into the class. Cameron Williams is down the street but I there are some hurdles, Tommy Eichenberg should get offered imo, Shammond Cooper should come to ND and not join that dumpster fire at Illinois and hopefully Kyren Williams can get in his ear about it. Jared Casey is a guy I saw recently pop up in the recruiting rankings at a very high spot (4 star on 247 & Rivals) and idk if its worth sniffing around. Lastly, I put OL/WR and I really mean just the most talented offensive guy they want to add to the class. I would love to add Cornelius Johnson, maybe flip Nolan Groulx if that's even a thing, or see if there are any other talented players who want out.

The great thing about this class is that the staff can go after guys knowing that they've pretty much met their quota in terms of number needs and can just chase the most talented players that want to be a part of what Notre Dame is doing.

 

[Veritate Duce Progredi]

19. DB Isaiah Rutherford
20. DL Bralen Trice
21. DL (Isaiah Foskey or flip candidate)
22. LB (Shammond Cooper when Lovie gets fired, Jared Casey, Cameron Williams, Tommy Eichenberg)
23. [if necessary] OL/WR (Enokk Vimahi, Cornelius Johnson, flip candidate)


The great thing about this class is that the staff can go after guys knowing that they've pretty much met their quota in terms of number needs and can just chase the most talented players that want to be a part of what Notre Dame is doing.

This is the most important point for me. Sign 1-3 more players in October and spend the rest of the recruiting cycle keeping our current commits and swinging for the fences on a few positions. Take best available as needed and lock it down. End with a top 10-15 class (due to numbers not quality) and head into 2020 with a full head of steam.

 

[EddytoNow]

Thanks for the intel. It sure seems like a great situation at ND where in his first or second year both cornerback spots will be open to compete for, not that we want a freshman playing there but there’s playing time available probably early in his career and Todd Lyght seems to be working wonders with the cornerbacks.

I agree that Todd Lyght is doing a great job. Isn't it interesting though that Todd Lyght's coaching improved so much after Van Gorder's departure? I think Lyght's been doing a great job all along, but we're now starting to see the impact of his recruiting and the effect of having a good defensive line. When Lyght was first hired the cupboard was pretty bare, and what talent we did have was still young and inexperienced. Love and Pride are doing an outstanding job, and the impact of Gilman and Elliot can't be ignored. The cupboards are being restocked as we speak. Hopefully, Rutherford joins the list of verbals soon. 2018 and 2019 recruiting has added depth and future starters.

Some posters on IE have crow to eat. They were very critical of Lyght's coaching in the past and even called for his dismissal. It's amazing how a few talented players can impact one's assessment of a coach's effectiveness.

 

[NDIrish88]

I agree that Todd Lyght is doing a great job. Isn't it interesting though that Todd Lyght's coaching improved so much after Van Gorder's departure? I think Lyght's been doing a great job all along, but we're now starting to see the impact of his recruiting and the effect of having a good defensive line. When Lyght was first hired the cupboard was pretty bare, and what talent we did have was still young and inexperienced. Love and Pride are doing an outstanding job, and the impact of Gilman and Elliot can't be ignored. The cupboards are being restocked as we speak. Hopefully, Rutherford joins the list of verbals soon. 2018 and 2019 recruiting has added depth and future starters.

Some posters on IE have crow to eat. They were very critical of Lyght's coaching in the past and even called for his dismissal. It's amazing how a few talented players can impact one's assessment of a coach's effectiveness.

I definitely take back what I said about Todd Lyght. Last year was his break out year for me. 2020 also looks promising

 

[BabyIrish]

19. DB Isaiah Rutherford
20. DL Bralen Trice
21. DL (Isaiah Foskey or flip candidate)
22. LB (Shammond Cooper when Lovie gets fired, Jared Casey, Cameron Williams, Tommy Eichenberg)
23. [if necessary] OL/WR (Enokk Vimahi, Cornelius Johnson, flip candidate)

I would love to see Rutherford and Trice pop sooner rather than later and then the staff can focus on the last two or three spots. I'd love to see one more defensive lineman on top of Trice make it to the class. Whether that be a DT or a DE I don't know but as long as they are talented then that would be awesome. Linebacker I think is 4th in line of need because ND has a host of numbers at the position, but I'd like to see if ND could sneak in one more guy into the class. Cameron Williams is down the street but I there are some hurdles, Tommy Eichenberg should get offered imo, Shammond Cooper should come to ND and not join that dumpster fire at Illinois and hopefully Kyren Williams can get in his ear about it. Jared Casey is a guy I saw recently pop up in the recruiting rankings at a very high spot (4 star on 247 & Rivals) and idk if its worth sniffing around. Lastly, I put OL/WR and I really mean just the most talented offensive guy they want to add to the class. I would love to add Cornelius Johnson, maybe flip Nolan Groulx if that's even a thing, or see if there are any other talented players who want out.

The great thing about this class is that the staff can go after guys knowing that they've pretty much met their quota in terms of number needs and can just chase the most talented players that want to be a part of what Notre Dame is doing.

I was so excited when he was hired, but certainly looked like he was struggling. Glad to see him turn it around coaching and recruiting wise. A lot to look forward to in the future.

 

[NDMIA]

I was so excited when he was hired, but certainly looked like he was struggling. Glad to see him turn it around coaching and recruiting wise. A lot to look forward to in the future.

If you include Isaiah Rutherford, which is a total guess, then you look at that 2 year haul of DB’s and that is an elite group of recruits. Not too many teams in the country can match that two year haul. That’s what you need to build championship rosters. That’s a hats off to Todd Lyght and Terry Joseph.

.9651 4* Houston Griffith
.9516 4* Derrik Allen
.8916 4* Noah Boykin
.8843 3* Tariq Bracy
.8802 3* DJ Brown
.8552 3* Paul Moala

.9227 4* Isaiah Rutherford
.9211 4* Kyle Hamilton
.9153 4* Litchfield Ajavon
.9013 4* KJ Wallace

 

[PerthDomer]

So how long until we start flipping committed guys from other schools?