What we learned

pkt77242

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PKT,
Getting yelled at is one thing. I played for a screamer. But, Kelly takes it to another level. He looks like a lunatic out there. Even the commentators are talking about it. Do you think some parent is lookign at that and excited to send their child to him??

He yelled at people for making mental mistakes mostly (TJ not lookng at the pass, Jonas not securing the ball). that is different to most people than yelling at a player for not being talented enough.

Some recruits may be turned off but that is the way it goes.
 

pkt77242

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Hey ND in FL,
Where is Bobby Knight today??? Yeah, that's right. Today is much different than 20 years ago. Go see how kids respond to the knight type treatment these days. Tell me another successful football or basketball coach that you see going all berzerk like Kelly did tonight???

ever seen coach K, he yells as well. Tressle use to yell, so did Urban. For that matter did you ever watch any good football or basketbal coach. They all scream and yell.

Not saying I love it but it is the choice the players make. Chip Kelly screams at his players as well.
 

Whiskeyjack

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Some good perspective on the loss:

Coach D on the Offense

Coach D on the Defense

Five Things We Learned from Keith Arnold

We statistically dominated a dark horse favorite to win the Big East; we beat ourselves with an absurd combination of TOs, penalties, and bad luck. If just one of those breaks goes our way, we win this game.

If we see the same crap next week, I'll divest myself emotionally from this season and prepare for more pain and disappointment. But not until then.
 

NDinFL

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He yelled at people for making mental mistakes mostly (TJ not lookng at the pass, Jonas not securing the ball). that is different to most people than yelling at a player for not being talented enough.

Some recruits may be turned off but that is the way it goes.

Nailed it, (kind of)

does anyone honestly think that any player at any college wouldn't get yelled at for these mistakes??

If they don't expect to get yelled at for such, then I don't want em.
 

Rhode Irish

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Very few teams are good enough to overcome a -5 turnover differential, especially three in goal-to-go situations (one of which was returned for a TD). Add in some terribly timed penalties and really it is amazing that if our all-american kicker had made a chip shot FG we probably would have won the game.

USF is a pretty good team. They could win the Big East and play in a BCS bowl. And Notre Dame is talented enough that they could have won the game despite all the turnovers and stupid penalties if they could have made only ONE less disastrous play. Every single possible thing that could have gone wrong did, and somehow they were still there at the end against a real team.

None of that makes this loss any easier to take. I dreaded this exact thing all summer and everyone told me I was crazy, but I've become accustomed to stuff like this happening. I just wanted to actually see that this team was different rather than hear them tell me about how different they are. And instead I saw the most infuriating, frustrating game I've experienced as an ND fan.

Still, as frustrated and disappointed as I am, I still feel like this team is good. I cannot believe we will see the same exasperating mistakes every week this season. I have to believe that was a one-time freak thing and an example of why so many teams start their seasons against guaranteed wins - to get the kinks out. There is a lot of football left this season. This team needs to refocus on the details and commit to playing smart football. I still think every game on the schedule is as winnable as I did yesterday, but it's going to take a much better effort than today's to win them.
 
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HereComeTheIrish

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Folks,
I have been over to other boards tonight and there are not many people who looked well at Kelly's sideline tirades tonight. He was simply out of control at points. Even Mayock was commenting about this.

I am telling all you folks saying that these kids need to suck it up. Parents will NOT look well on this if their kids are being recruited by ND. I am sorry, but Kelly looked much better in the second half of 2010 when he toned it down some.

He looked absolutely STUPID a couple times with his screaming and contorted faces. He was on the verge of a flipping heart attack. I guarantee that other coaches will use these tirades against him in recruiting.

Yelling a few times is one thing, but his antics are over the top. Fix it Brian!!!

Good Lord...Get over it. You act like it was you getting reamed.
 

ND_HAS_RISEN

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I learned that no matter how much hope I have for ND, they ALWAYS find some way to blow it. How many times does ND lose to an inferior opponent?!? ND was clearly the better team, had better athletes, and STILL found a way to lose. I just don't understand why it always happens to us? It's one thing to lose a game when you are obviously the better team every now and then, but it happens YEAR_IN and YEAR-OUT.. Tulsa, Syracuse, Navy, USF, etc...

It's like they are cursed or something. They 100% beat themselves today. The defense only gave up 13 points, and the offense should have had at a minimum 30 points if they just hold on to the damn ball.

I learned that while Crist has every physical tool to be a great QB, he has severe confidence issues, and he gets rattled like no other. Rees CANNOT strecth the field whatso ever, and he locks onto Floyd like he is the only player out there. I get it, Floyd is AMAZING, and for quick passes that are thrown right away, it works. But for god's sake, when Floyd goes down the field at ALL, Rees doesn't look anywhere else. I specifically saw him make a pass to the endzone where the safety came over the top, Kelly yelled at him, and Rees says back "the safety stepped up" , when clearly the safety was double teaming Floyd the whole way. I really wish I could just say that Rees is just so much better, BUT HE'S NOT!! His accuracy to 15 yds is stellar, but cmon, this isn't a west coast offense that dinks and dunks all the way down the field. Neither one is worthy of a starter status IMO. Rees handles the pressure so much better though too... Man I just don't know. They are both enigma's..

The bottom line though is I just don't understand how we can clearly have the better team, yet ALWAYS find ways to lose games that we have no reason to lose.

Everybody who was worried about this game was right.

(THEY ARE SO FRICKEN GOOD SOMETIMES THOUGH.... JUST DOES'NT MAKE SENSE!)

/end vent
 

ND_HAS_RISEN

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Very few teams are good enough to overcome a -5 turnover differential, especially three in goal-to-go situations (one of which was returned for a TD). Add in some terribly timed penalties and really it is amazing that if our all-american kicker had made a chip shot FG we probably would have won the game.

USF is a pretty good team. They could win the Big East and play in a BCS bowl. And Notre Dame is talented enough that they could have won the game despite all the turnovers and stupid penalties if they could have made only ONE less disastrous play. Every single possible thing that could have gone wrong did, and somehow they were still there at the end against a real team.

None of that makes this loss any easier to take. I dreaded this exact thing all summer and everyone told me I was crazy, but I've become accustomed to stuff like this happening. I just wanted to actually see that this team was different rather than hear them tell me about how different they are. And instead I saw the most infuriating, frustrating game I've experienced as an ND fan.

Still, as frustrated and disappointed as I am, I still feel like this team is good. I cannot believe we will see the same exasperating mistakes every week this season. I have to believe that was a one-time freak thing and an example of why so many teams start their seasons against guaranteed wins - to get the kinks out. There is a lot of football left this season. This team needs to refocus on the details and commit to playing smart football. I still think every game on the schedule is as winnable as I did yesterday, but it's going to take a much better effort than today's to win them.

This sums up exactly how I feel, in a much more eloquent way :whoknows:
 

PaIrish Fan

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We learned that Rees should be the starter for the rest of the season, i like Dayne but he has accuracy problems and I'm not sure that he is a leader. There was a spark with Tommy in the game. Mayock even said a few times that the ball is always on time with Rees.
 

NDinFL

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We learned that Rees should be the starter for the rest of the season, i like Dayne but he has accuracy problems and I'm not sure that he is a leader. There was a spark with Tommy in the game. Mayock even said a few times that the ball is always on time with Rees.

Eggg xxxxaaaccttt lllleeeee

I do not care if you can throw the football 2 miles,

can you put a 5 yard slant in an All American's numbers?

#jamarcusrussell
 
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GBdomer

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i learned that i dont even know where to begin. I need to stop drinking. Denard be ready we comin next week.
 
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HereComeTheIrish

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Eggg xxxxaaaccttt lllleeeee

I do not care if you can throw the football 2 miles,

can you put a 5 yard slant in an All American's numbers?

#jamarcusrussell

Exactly...

and for those throwing a hissy-fit over Kelly's "overly animated" discussions....be pissed that he picked the wrong quarterback and wasted half a game and 90 minutes of our lives, not that he was chewing on a few guys for not doing their freaking jobs...
 

dre1919

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I think the biggest thing we "learned" was that Notre Dame still does not have the preparation, execution, mental toughness and swagger of the elite teams in the college football world. When people play Alabama, Oklahoma, Texas, etc. they are concerned because they know these teams are routinely well prepared, well coached, and fielding the best talent the country has to offer. With ND, they just don't get the "shaking in their boots" type of feeling because we routinely underachieve, are routinely over hyped because of our past and popularity, and it's really seen as "no big deal" to play the Irish anymore. I would imagine if you polled any team across the country, and asked them "Whom would you rather face? This current Notre Dame team or any team from the SEC?", they'd take us. Why? Because we just don't bring it.

We underachieve, fold like a lawn chair, have no intensity and mean streak, and always find ways to create holes for ourselves such as turnovers, mistakes and penalties. Understand, I am a die hard Irish fan and always will be...I'm just being realistic. This program is no closer to being back on top (no matter who the coach is) and hasn't been since Lou left town. We have some elite talent (not as much as, say, Alabama or Oregon, etc.) but we have some. I feel like we have good coaching (I really believe we do. I like Kelly and Diaco.) But for whatever reason, it just doesn't come together the way it should. It's like separate ingredients that don't add up to an amazing meal.

The disturbing thing to me is the lack of fire and anger over the past several seasons. Davie, Willingham, Weis, Kelly...they have all had regimes that seemed too "nice". I don't mean the coaches yelling at the players...I mean just good old fashioned mean spirited football players with an intent to murder anything moving. I don't get it...I really don't. If I were a football player, playing for Notre Dame which I hold above all else in sports, I would kill for that team in the game situation. It would insult me personally if someone made a first down at my expense. Maybe there are those types on the team and they simply get swallowed up by others' mediocrity or indifference, or perhaps even though they have that fire and anger it's just not enough to overcome the athletic gifts of the opponents they face. (Losing to teams such as USF and Tulsa, I just can't imagine this is the case).

The thing is, when Bama, Oregon, Florida, Oklahoma, etc...when these teams roll into an opponents town to play the hosting team knows they're in for a dog fight and they better bring it. The players on these teams know what's at stake, seize the moment, and refuse to let another's actions dictate the outcome to the best of their limits. We seem to differ like a kickoff...if you play us even, we'll probably win. If you play "up" on us emotionally, we cave. So I don't know...I think more than anything we need to change the "culture of winning" around here (which is odd, given Notre Dame's storied history). Maybe that's part of the problem? People are living too much in the past, and the immense media pressure is just too much for anyone to come in and surmount. (I swear, if I hear "Return to Glory" one more time I might vomit. Enough with the "Returning"...we'll get there when we get there...be patient). Nobody wants to be patient though...they want lightning in a bottle. Catch fire, win a BCS bowl and have the media anoint us as truly "Back!"

I think until we find a way to truly balance who we are, who we want to be, and who everyone seems to think we should be we're always going to be stuck in neutral. Coaches and athletes matter, but the real answer to me is looking oneself in the mirror, saying "I'm not going to let this happen...not on my watch." and not only knowing you, as an athlete, mean it...but that your teammate next to you does too. Then, go out and letting actions speak. Until then, expect more of the same in my humble opinion.

GO IRISH! FIGHT HARD, WIN THE DAY!
 

pkt77242

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i learned that i dont even know where to begin. I need to stop drinking. Denard be ready we comin next week.

Nope you got that backwards, you need to drink more. But you are right the fact that we are going to give Denard a smack down next week.
 
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koonja

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we learned the Notre Dame fan base is becoming used to making excuses to explain our lack of execution. South Florida didnt even play that well...and beat us because the Irish decided to beat themselves.

I have nothing to add.
 

Irish Houstonian

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Kelly looked like a nut job a few times today. Sorry Brian, but I don't care how bad it is going, you have to be atleast reasonable. I even saw him screaming at another coach.

He will LOSE recruits and his own players doing this stuff. You have to pick your places for the screaming.

People can say Lou yelled back in the day, but I NEVER saw Lou even close to Kelly today. Plus, kids today do not take well to that screaming. He needs to take a chill pill.

In his defense, his entire career heretofore may have rested on that one bone-headed I-feel-like-running-a-route-but-not-looking-at-the-QB type move. If this season turns out badly, that single brain-fart could ending up costing him literally tens of millions of dollars...Had you foreseen that, given everything that you trained on this offseason, you'd be pretty upset as well...

I also have played for screamers, and in my experience, how players react really depends on whether the coach is just a "screamer" during game day (in which case the players understand), and, more importantly, whether they praise you just as much on a "up" moment. If you'll also defend and praise the players when they do good, then it will mean that much more, and the reward system is reinforced. (Which was why Bobby Knight/Bill Parcells/Mike Leach/Holtz were such effective motivators and Stan Van Gundy isn't...). But if you just are constantly negative about every little thing, and never have any room for praise, your key people will end up like deer in headlights -- or should I say Crists in opening halves -- and afraid to make mistakes.

Based on the press conferences and his track record of players wanting to play with him (like Maty Mauk's older brother wanting him to play for him), I would imagine he is the latter.

But, I do agree with you to a certain extent: you could see from the replay that Rees was trying to intervene in Kelly's berating of Riddick, telling him it was his (Rees's) fault for the play. Not to overly psychoanalyze the situtation, but this could show either that (1) Rees believes that Riddick's not able to emotionally handle BK, or (2) Rees is a heck of a leader wanting to take the heat instead of a teammate. This second point is especially true considering that Rees is still the backup QB and was seeking the blame that could potentially lead to his riding the bench for the rest of his career.
 
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I kinda hope Crist, Gray, and Turk don't play anymore but it seems like Gray is inevitable. Turk is a waste of a scholarship big time.
 
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GBdomer

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Kelly looked like a nut job a few times today. Sorry Brian, but I don't care how bad it is going, you have to be atleast reasonable. I even saw him screaming at another coach.

He will LOSE recruits and his own players doing this stuff. You have to pick your places for the screaming.

People can say Lou yelled back in the day, but I NEVER saw Lou even close to Kelly today. Plus, kids today do not take well to that screaming. He needs to take a chill pill.


this isn't golf.
 

BobD

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I think Brian Kelly did a lot of relationship damage today, not just with the players, but the coaching staff as well. The team made some terrible mistakes, but nothing that can't be corrected going forward. The game was still in reach and instead of coaching, mentoring and motivating he was demoralizing. The effects of that will be harder to overcome than any mistakes the players made. I'm afraid the team, the staff and us might have seen a personality defect today. I hope he proves me wrong.

Go Irish!
 
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HereComeTheIrish

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Oh my gosh.... We're actually pontificating whether a player/coach had his verr-gina hurt because big, bad Kelly yelled at them??? Is this a joke? Toughen up people.... I realize that this generation has be pussified x 1,000,000 but this argument takes the cake.
 

Sportster

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My question: talent wise, who's more talented? ND or USF? IF it is ND as I'm thinking it more than likely is, then there is no reason they should have lost to a inferior team. They cannot continue to recruit top talent and do so little with them! Lesser teams should be steam rolled like ND used to do yearly to Navy but nowadays even frigging NAVY is a challenge! Something's stinks in the hen house and it needs fixin fast! Or we may be looking at Exit Stage left much like Mr. Weis....
 

NDinFL

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Kelly looked like a nut job a few times today. Sorry Brian, but I don't care how bad it is going, you have to be atleast reasonable. I even saw him screaming at another coach.

He will LOSE recruits and his own players doing this stuff. You have to pick your places for the screaming.

People can say Lou yelled back in the day, but I NEVER saw Lou even close to Kelly today. Plus, kids today do not take well to that screaming. He needs to take a chill pill.


this isn't golf.

I disagree,

GB, you have a lot better info on our recruiting, but honestly, ask any football coach, "what pisses you off?"

1st answer: simple mistakes
2nd answer: turnovers
3rd answer: lack of executition

sorry if their feelings were hurt, but we played like ****, and we have to own up to that
 
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HereComeTheIrish

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I disagree,

GB, you have a lot better info on our recruiting, but honestly, ask any football coach, "what pisses you off?"

1st answer: simple mistakes
2nd answer: turnovers
3rd answer: lack of executition

sorry if their feelings were hurt, but we played like ****, and we have to own up to that

F-ing A Bubba.... Best post of the night. Reps
 

irishtrain

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I agree, but disagree. As im watching the Oregon game, Deanthony Thomas fumbled on Oregon's 20 and Chip Kelly talked to him calmly on the sideline and looked like he was encouraging him. There is no way a player will feel better after getting their **** chewed out by Kelly. Hell, Kelly even flipped **** when Tommy threw the first Td pass. Not only that, I don't wanna see B. Kelly have a heart attack lol
Kelly did not yell or scream at anything today that did not need to be yelled or screamed at. Those mental mistakes are not possible-and if he didnt nail those guys you'd be saying why isnt he chewing their butts for mental mistakes/no attention to detail. Relationship dammage my @$#. That was one of the poorest first halves in the history of notre Dame football and any coach/any coach should have the right to nail those guys for those type of detail mistakes. Hold on to the ball at the goaline/look as you cross the middle for the pass/dont throw the pass if the guys not looking-its basic football 101. Kelly did not embarras the back who fumbled he coached hard on what any coach would deem mental and attention to detail errors. Lets be honest about this game guys Notre Dame gave this game away to a team who per player made no mental/attention to detail mistakes. Brian Kelly cannot perforn the task all he can do is coach and decide who plays and who doesnt play. This is not pee wee football (although they played like it in the first half) its Notre Dame. I 'll put it this way if you think Saban/Stoops/etc would react any differently you are mistaken. The difference is they would just sit the player down-Notre Dame is not deep enough to do that yet. When they are you wont see those type of players on the field and these will be mute points. I said all along all summer this first game was a loss because the first game is hard in any season and they will play a team that wont shoot themselves in the @$#, and they are a pretty good team with a coach that understands what it takes to beat Notre Dame. I wish I was wrong!
 
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pkt77242

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I disagree,

GB, you have a lot better info on our recruiting, but honestly, ask any football coach, "what pisses you off?"

1st answer: simple mistakes
2nd answer: turnovers
3rd answer: lack of executition

sorry if their feelings were hurt, but we played like ****, and we have to own up to that

GB was trying to quote another poster but messed it up, the only thought that was his was "this isn't golf"
 

DomerInHappyValley

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what is up with people complaining about coach yelling?
what is he supposed to do cart wheels after yet another turnover because the receiver couldn't turn his head on a dig.
receiving 101 you make your cut on an in route get your head around.
if you played past the pee wee level you should know if you don't execute the fundmentals your gonna get yelled at and your job is on the line.
hell 3 turn overs inside the 5 and only 1 was because of a heads up play by the defender thats not execution
 

phgreek

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Notre Dame is not good enough to overcome all the turnovers, penalties, and dropped passes

Defense is good, not great

Cierre Wood is the real deal

Tommy Rees is the future

Except for Floyd, our WR's are very inconsistent

Special teams are horrible

Maybe John Goodman should return punts again

Hopefully we can let all the BS threads die down and refocus on the season there is no need to start new threads about every thought you have.

I thought the defense did a great job except for dumb penalties...I didn't expect them to pitch a shutout in the second half...although, I didn't think they'd need to.

Outside Wood and Floyd, NONE of the other O skill guys came to play like a leading man today...I was sad and embarrased for each...it was Bush League to have four guys step on it this bad in the same game...BTW, Crist is not one of the four, and was not as bad as they made him look...however, it is clear TR is THE quarterback now...he's just better in Kelly's system.

This is 99% on the guys who put the cleats on today...and i don't mind saying many should be ashamed of that work product...this was on par with first game sloppy...if you are 10.
 
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GBdomer

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GB was trying to quote another poster but messed it up, the only thought that was his was "this isn't golf"

dude i loved that what Kelly did. I meant to quote what that guy said but ive been drinking all day and i didnt feel like reading through all of that to find it.
 
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