Weakness: Special Teams, Linebackers

[Wham]

Are they coached by the same guy? I just saw the bio of the special teams coach. He comes from Michigan State, Buffalo, and Baylor. Michigan State as we have all seen is the lowest class school on the schedule. Buffalo and Baylor have shared time as the worst football programs of the last 20 years. But his father is head of the Colts.

Does CW owe the Colts' president so much that he would sacrifice Notre Dame football?

By contrast, I am so impressed with the defensive line play that (during my vacation which gives me too much spare time) I also looked up the bio of the D line coach. Very impressive. Proven winner. Worked with Holtz.

Holtz won the NC and his teams were challengers every year (until the admin got in the way) with some of the best special teams play in the country. His linebackers were feared.

Why is the special teams coach still on this staff?

CW fired Minter, a coach with much experience but very ineffective. Why won't he fire the ST coach, or give him the ultimatum? If CW can bench an athlete for one mistake (fumble), he can certainly "bench" the coach who has been a mistake for over a year. Does he have a father complex for the guy? I don't think CW has the balls to make the change.

 

[CLEARWALL]

Why do you continue to post? Everything you say is ridiculous garbage that has not even an ounce of thought put behind it.

 

[Wham]

Why do you continue to post? Everything you say is ridiculous garbage that has not even an ounce of thought put behind it.

I post so that someone can answer my question. Do you have a non-ridiculous answer with some thought behind it? You have shown no evidence yet.

 

[johnnd05]

I'm not sure who you were talking about, but Parmalee and Polian are both listed on the official website as special teams coaches. Weis has said, though, that this year special teams are the responsibility of everyone on the staff.

I'm sure, though, that noone on the staff is there because of anything Weis might "owe the Colts' president". Sheesh.

 

[Wham]

I'm not sure who you were talking about, but Parmalee and Polian are both listed on the official website as special teams coaches. Weis has said, though, that this year special teams are the responsibility of everyone on the staff.

I'm sure, though, that noone on the staff is there because of anything Weis might "owe the Colts' president". Sheesh.

I am talking about Polian. He has stunk it up for the team as bad if not worse than Minter did. Why was Minter shown the door and not Polian?

Is it because Polian's father is president of the Colts? Why was the coach who is associated with losing teams hired in the first place?

Sheesh. I thought you did your homework johno5.

SPECIAL TEAM AND LINEBACKER PLAY REAKS. WORSE THAN THE OLINE. AT LEAST THE OLINE IS FINALLY IMPROVING.

 

[johnnd05]

I am talking about Polian. He has stunk it up for the team as bad if not worse than Minter did. Why was Minter shown the door and not Polian?

Is it because Polian's father is president of the Colts? Why was the coach who is associated with losing teams hired in the first place?

Sheesh. I thought you did your homework johno5.

SPECIAL TEAM AND LINEBACKER PLAY REAKS. WORSE THAN THE OLINE. AT LEAST THE OLINE IS FINALLY IMPROVING.

Dude. What in the WORLD would his father being president of the Colts have to do with ANYTHING? Who are you, Oliver Stone?

Give me a frigging break ...

 

[irish9331]

SPECIAL TEAM AND LINEBACKER PLAY REAKS. WORSE THAN THE OLINE. AT LEAST THE OLINE IS FINALLY IMPROVING.

It is actually spelled R-E-E-K-S, just wanted to clear that up. That is all

Go Irish

 

[ndfi78]

Is it because Polian's father is president of the Colts?

Why would that have anything to do with it? I'm not sure what you are pointing too. What tie does Weis have with the Colts?

 

[Sureal]

Thread of Mystery Part III

 

[johnnd05]

Thread of Mystery Part III

 

[The Polish Irishman]

I do think thru all this banter, there is a good point at Linebackers could be compared to swiss cheese and special teams have not been very good . To beat UCLA, we will need to make 2 big special teams plays.

 

[Wham]

Dude. What in the WORLD would his father being president of the Colts have to do with ANYTHING? Give me a frigging break ...

I guess you missed my point. I'll simplify. All coaches on the staff have a nice re - zu - may, and those they coach are showing signs of improvement.

Except for the Polian guy and his special team and linebacker play.

He comes from programs that historically are ranked in the bottom of the entire college football cosmos (Buffalo, Baylor). If I were looking at his RE -ZU-MAY, I would toss it immediatley, until I caught sight of the fact that his father is the president of the Indianapolis Colts.

I doubt that your memory is that short. ND cannot kick an extra point. Cannot hold the snap. Cannot block for the FG. Loses the field position battle from kickoff to kick return. Linebackers cover no pass. Make no tackle. Do not swarm to the ball.

Polian is listed as the SPECIAL TEAMS COACH AND LINEBACKER COACH.

C'MON Johnnd05. Think about it.

 

[stonebreakerwasgod]

Fire everyone. Hire the Bengals defensive and ST coaches. I'll make the call if ya want.

 

[kmoose]

In 2006, Polian's special teams were highlighted by the play of punter Geoff Price. Price ranked fifth in the nation averaging 45.4 yards per punt to set the Notre Dame single-season record for best punting average. He also reached the minimum punts required to become the school's career leader punting average at 45.4. The punt coverage unit, under Polian's guidance, ranked 11th in the country at 37.8 yards per punt and helped Price land 12 punts inside the 20-yard line. The Irish returned one punt for a touchdown last year and David Grimes averaged 24.5 yards on 21 kickoff returns to rank 28th in the nation. Derek Landri blocked four kicks including tying an NCAA record when he blocked two PATs vs. North Carolina.

You gonna can the guy for having a bad year? Hell, if you did that, ALL of the current coaches would be out of work.

 

[Wham]

This is his third year.

 

[Wham]

You gonna can the guy for having a bad year? Hell, if you did that, ALL of the current coaches would be out of work.

You quoted the ND site about Polian. They have to say something nice.

Maybe you have not watched a Notre Dame football game for the last 3 years while Polian has been in charge of special teams. You obviously don't know the game of football either.

This staff is paid MULTI MILLIONS of dollars. And all they have to show for their special teams and linebackers is an inability to snap the ball 5 yards to a holder, a holdler's inability to place the ball, a kicker's inability to tap the ball between the uprights, a linebacker's inability to shed a block or make a tackle, and a linebacker's inability to cover a pass. A punter who can't catch the snap, and a punter who shanks the punt, killing all momentum. A kickoff team who can't hold the opposition behind the 20 yard line, and a kick return team that can't reach the 20, if they don't fumble.

 

[piyachi]

Wham, nothing personal but this really seems to parallel other "fire _______" threads/posts.

We fired Ty because in addition to the lack of on-field performance there were work/recuiting issues. We fired Minter because a- Charlie wanted to run a 3-4 d, and b- the problems with Minters D was a case of defenders being out of position.

We don't seem to have any issues with players being out of position this year. In fact the biggest problems have been with fundamentals, which are across-the-board pretty stinky on d (ie tackling, shedding blocks, etc). While the linebackers don't look great this year, I think it can mostly be attributed to the much-hackneyed issue of youth/talent. We have seen the younger guys come in and really start to do some special stuff. Our linebacking corps is still undersized at the 3-4 levels (from what I have read) and can't seem to take down backs on the first hit. To me it looks to be a physical-ceiling issue as opposed to a coaching issue, since we get penetration on runs decently, then are gashed when we fail to bring the runner down. The fundamentals and talent of the team should improve over the next two seasons.

I'd say it's a little early to judge here. Let's see what he can do with a Flemming/Filer/McDonald/Neal group. If he can't succeed with them, can him right quick.

As for special teams - Weis has stated multiple times that every coach is now in on them since they have been an issue of concern. Polian isn't to blame for that. Also, the UND release about the special teams quotes stats/facts, not PR spin.

Chill on personal attacks, por favor.

 

[Wham]

you da man piachi!

You said "Wham, nothing personal but this really seems to parallel other "fire _______" threads/posts."

I want to know why this apparently lame coach is still on staff. I'm not paralleling anything because I am new to the forum. I and all the other bar and grill Domers (both of us in enemy territory) are wondering why an average coach is allowed among quality coaches.


piyachi: "I think it can mostly be attributed to the much-hackneyed issue of youth/talent."

Wham: "Much hackneyed" is a journalistic term and has nothing to do with football.

piyachi: "We don't seem to have any issues with players being out of position this year. "

Wham: They can't shed blocks or tackle when they are in position. Zibby does not know how to "break down" and avoid a "juke". There is no explosion to the football. Period

piyachi: "As for special teams - Weis has stated multiple times that every coach is now in on them since they have been an issue of concern. Polian isn't to blame for that."

Wham: I appreciate your attempt to sway my attention fromthe elephant, but the elephant happens to be standing on my penis. Special teams an "issue of concern?" GOOD GOD ALMIGHTY.

 

[piyachi]

you da man piachi!

Wham: I appreciate your attempt to sway my attention to the elephant, but the elephant happens to be standing on my penis. lol

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA I think I laughed at that last part for a solid 5 minutes and I'm still ginning like an idiot.

reps just for that

As for the rest - fundamentals, my point is simply that it is an across-the-board issue so God only knows where that problem starts and ends. I'll leave that to other people to guess/comment on.

GO IRISH..... and lets not have Big Stew stand on anyone's penis

 

[piyachi]

Oh and the hackneyed thing - sorry long day at work.... I was going for: over-talked, redundant, etc

 

[Wham]

trite etc...

you da man!

 

[rockne19]

i'am sure polian is on the hot seat along with latina.

 

[johnnd05]

piyachi: "As for special teams - Weis has stated multiple times that every coach is now in on them since they have been an issue of concern. Polian isn't to blame for that."

Wham: I appreciate your attempt to sway my attention fromthe elephant, but the elephant happens to be standing on my penis. Special teams an "issue of concern?" GOOD GOD ALMIGHTY.

You seem to have missed the key point Piyachi was making here, namely that Weis has said that this season special teams are the concern of ALL the coaches, not just Parmalee and Polian. Polian his no more to blame for the special teams troubles this year than anyone else.

More generally, I fail to see how a glance at Polian's on-line biography can give you a good enough sense of whether he's equipped to be an assistant coach at Notre Dame. If you want to base your argument on the performance of the linebackers this year, that's one thing - but the fanciness of the places he's coached in the past seems entirely beside the point.

 

[Wham]

You seem to have missed the key point Piyachi was making here, namely that Weis has said that this season special teams are the concern of ALL the coaches, not just Parmalee and Polian. Polian his no more to blame for the special teams troubles this year than anyone else.

More generally, I fail to see how a glance at Polian's on-line biography can give you a good enough sense of whether he's equipped to be an assistant coach at Notre Dame. If you want to base your argument on the performance of the linebackers this year, that's one thing - but the fanciness of the places he's coached in the past seems entirely beside the point.

I think I've gone a bit overboard on this thread here (kmoose - sorry for being too "anal"ytic), butt, I'll add one final comment.

johnnd05, I see piyachi's point clearly, but then are you and piyachi saying that it takes an entire staff to get it wrong? (How many coaches does it take to...) lol

A glance at a coach's biography indicates past performance and who he "hung out" with - winning programs, or losing ones. Fanciness has nothing to do with it. Winning or losing does.

I'm basing my point on the performance of the special teams and linebackers.

O.K. I'm done with my rant.

 

[kjones]

You quoted the ND site about Polian. They have to say something nice.

Did you notice the quote was only filled with objective facts, and not subjective opinions?

I think people would take your concerns more seriously if you didn't simply dismiss all evidence that is presented to the contrary of your opinion so out of hand.

Special teams has been bad, true. Linebacker play has been sub-par, also true, especially the OLB. But then, we also have only young guys/new starters at that position, so it's really not surprising, and probably not wholly the coaches fault. The guys show some promise, but make too many mistakes, signatures of young and new starters. While I had hoped they would be better, objectively I'm not too surprised, and I'm definitely not on board with the fire Polian thing. The issue is much more complicated than you describe, because of our team's situation, and I think it would be hard to place all the blame on him and retain intellectual honesty.

Cheers

 

[Wham]

Did you notice the quote was only filled with objective facts, and not subjective opinions?

I think people would take your concerns more seriously if you didn't simply dismiss all evidence that is presented to the contrary of your opinion so out of hand.

Special teams has been bad, true. Linebacker play has been sub-par, also true, especially the OLB. But then, we also have only young guys/new starters at that position, so it's really not surprising, and probably not wholly the coaches fault. The guys show some promise, but make too many mistakes, signatures of young and new starters. While I had hoped they would be better, objectively I'm not too surprised, and I'm definitely not on board with the fire Polian thing. The issue is much more complicated than you describe, because of our team's situation, and I think it would be hard to place all the blame on him and retain intellectual honesty.

Cheers

I might be a bit tipsy (o.k., drunk off my pooper) as I type this but...

Summbitch.

Please tell me that you and john were not 17 year old high school students that were accepted by the University of Notre Dame du Lac who graduated 4 years later with a significant head start on life. Please admit to the world your true status in life. You can't possibly be a true Domer (again, those that were accepted by the university after high school and graduated 4 years later) with the flawed logic that you and johno5 display.

Please study the difference between objective and subjective on your own.

I'll give you a hint. 1 plus 1 equals 2. That is objective.

A biased website that describes a coach by attaching his coaching ability to a few accomplishments of the athletes and coaches he happened to be standing next to is actually subjective if it hints that he was the reason for the success.

The biased website does not ever mention the fact that the programs he was involved with were the worst teams in college football.

My opinion is not out of hand. I do serious objective study like OBJECTIVELY WATCH a fumbled snap, a missed extra point, a missed extra point, a missed extra point, a missed extra point, ...er

I subjectively notice a total loss in team momentum when punter fumbles snap.

I subjectively notice a total loss in team momentum when punter shanks punt.

I objectively notice that ND does not cross the 20 yard line on kick return.

I objectively notice that ND does not stop the opponent from crossing the 20 yard line on kickoff.

You took the time to answer my post by saying that my opinion would be taken more seriously if blah blah blah, then you go and support my opinion with the rest of your post.

Please tell me you are not a true domer.

The domers I have met are a bit more logically inclined.

I can't even begin to point out the flaws in johnn05's logic because the need to refill my beer bucket trumps all else.

Thanks for the try though.

 

[johnnd05]

Holy crap man, have you lost it? Are you bipolar or something?

Sheesh ...

 

[Wham]

Holy crap man, have you lost it? Are you bipolar or something?

Sheesh ...

No. Drunk.

But that tells me that along with your logically challenged status, you also suffer from reading comprehension issues. I stated in the first line in my previous post that I have been imbibing the spirits. Did you miss that?

If I am bipolar, would I be able to give you an objective answer to the question of whether or not I am bipolar?

Don't mistake the personal email I sent you thanking you for your efforts with my point on this thread. They are separate issues.

Bottom line: You are a workhorse on this forum, and I thank you for it. I was about to exit this forum because my vacation is just about over, but some dorks challenged my point with flawed logic and careless reading comprehension. I had no choice but to respond. You were one of the dorks. I am wondering why you work so hard on this forum. Are you a salesman or something? I'm just a drunkard with a computer who gains identity on Saturdays through Notre Dame football.

WWWWHHHHAAAAMMMM.

I think you and I and most of the posters on here are on the same team. We just have different ways of expressing it. I wish all the coaches and players a great life beyond football, but it is fun to waste energy bitching about Notre Dame's current sloppy play.

Peace brother.

 

[johnnd05]

Her Loyal Sons has a really interesting post up that analyzes the numbers and argues that ND's kickoff and return teams haven't been as bad as some have argued: Her Loyal Sons » We Can’t All Be Special: ND’s Kickoff Team Performance.

 

[Sir John]

In defense of Polian but I do know he contribted a chapter or more on a book about Special Teams. Farther more, in reading about Crist's HS coach he credited Polian with both Crist and JC in California. Polian's responsibility is Cal in recruiting. Fire him you have to wipe out all the ND contacts he has with the kids then start all over again from the bottom of the barrel. I say leave well enough alone as we are recruiting well there.

There will be a change in OLB for the UCLA game anyway.