[Vpoll] Marijuana, Weed, Pot

[irishpat183]

One clever argument I heard is that, by being illegal, marijuana is actually more "gateway-like" than if it were decriminalized.

That is, by pushing it underground, people looking for it have to find a "drug dealer", some of whom deal harder stuff or push new "products" on their "clients".

If it's legal, then a pot-head is in no better position to find crack than anyone else.

Good point.


The fact that Pot is on the same level as alcohol (level 1) and a step higher than blow(level 2)...is absurd.

 

[Jebediah Springfield]

Again, I watched this doc on History channel. They interviewed the police chief in the area. I didn't say violent crime has increased in CA...just in those areas. (I'll have to check the area that they said it was...I'm going off memory here, forgive me)

In fact, there was a story in which a distrubution center was robbed and the two people working there were shot to death by a gang.

The fact that you blatantly ignore this possiblity is ridiculous.

So what was the issue with the my comments about the health benefits? Which have never been confirmed by the FDA, BTW.

And when you factor in that only a FRACTION of uses have actual REAL health problems (not made up sh*t)...the health argument is laughable.

I'll watch that Doc just to see what great arguments the other side has.

Dispensaries are open all over the state that would mean all over Ca we would be seeing an increase in crime ...

LOL so we went from cartels protecting their business to gang members robbing a dispensary... yes, criminals, which include gang members, see this as easy pickings due to the quasi legal nature of the business. How much time do you think the police spend investigating dispensary robberies?

Once again you are backpedaling... We went from not buying the "health" argument to only SOME people are benefiting from it.

Like I said you don't know what you are talking about. You should spend more time asking questions instead of talking.

 

[irishpat183]

I'll watch that Doc just to see what great arguments the other side has.

Dispensaries are open all over the state that would mean all over Ca we would be seeing an increase in crime ...

LOL so we went from cartels protecting their business to gang members robbing a dispensary... yes, criminals, which include gang members, see this as easy pickings due to the quasi legal nature of the business. How much time do you think the police spend investigating dispensary robberies?

Once again you are backpedaling... We went from not buying the "health" argument to only SOME people are benefiting from it.

Like I said you don't know what you are talking about. You should spend more time asking questions instead of talking.

What? I didn't backpeddel at all? I said that only about 2% are those "terminal" paitents that the pro-pot crowd loves to parade all over TV. The rest are phonies just looking to smoke pot.

And even then, there is no PROVEN benefit to smoking pot. Not to mention, it does increase risks to lung cancer (putting anything other than air in your lungs is bad no matter how you slice it)

And the doc wasn't against it. Not by a long shot. But rather than be CLOSED MINDED like you on this subject, it brought up some good points amid all the hoopla and BS that is being thrown around about legalizing pot.

 

[Jebediah Springfield]

What? I didn't backpeddel at all? I said that only about 2% are those "terminal" paitents that the pro-pot crowd loves to parade all over TV. The rest are phonies just looking to smoke pot.

And even then, there is no PROVEN benefit to smoking pot. Not to mention, it does increase risks to lung cancer (putting anything other than air in your lungs is bad no matter how you slice it)

And the doc wasn't against it. Not by a long shot. But rather than be CLOSED MINDED like you on this subject, it brought up some good points amid all the hoopla and BS that is being thrown around about legalizing pot.

You never said that, you said only a fraction benefit so you didn't buy the "health" argument.

Consuming marijuana has been found to help with various illnesses... and since you are now so well versed in the subject, what is the problem in getting marijuana approved by the FDA?

Lastly, only a fool would watch a documentary and then try to start a debate with someone who obviously knows way more than them. If you were a liberal I would just give you the answers but I know folks like you want to earn everything, so GOOGLE the claims being made by those in opposition to marijuana.

 

[irishpat183]

You never said that, you said only a fraction benefit so you didn't buy the "health" argument.

Consuming marijuana has been found to help with various illnesses... and since you are now so well versed in the subject, what is the problem in getting marijuana approved by the FDA?

Lastly, only a fool would watch a documentary and then try to start a debate with someone who obviously knows way more than them. If you were a liberal I would just give you the answers but I know folks like you want to earn everything, so GOOGLE the claims being made by those in opposition to marijuana.

So google/internet is the only offical way to get good info on pot...gotcha. I'm sure the producers of the doc didn't bother to check any sources. And i'm sure all the websites with pot leaves all over them are unbiased in their research.

Come on. Only a fool would tell me that the doc I watched is less credible than the f*cking internet. Sheesh.

 

[Jebediah Springfield]

So google/internet is the only offical way to get good info on pot...gotcha. I'm sure the producers of the doc didn't bother to check any sources. And i'm sure all the websites with pot leaves all over them are unbiased in their research.

Come on. Only a fool would tell me that the doc I watched is less credible than the f*cking internet. Sheesh.

Ha ha ha ha google crime stats and then you can get official statistics from the FBI.

This is just embarrassing now....

 

[irishpat183]

Yeah...I found this on "google"

Medical benefits of marijuana

Anecdotal evidence for the beneficial effects of marijuana eventually led to the design of controlled scientific studies to examine the benefits of marijuana compared to other treatments. A 1997 review of 6059 marijuana-related articles in the medical literature revealed 194 titles on antiemetic properties, 56 on glaucoma, 10 on multiple sclerosis, 23 on appetite, and 11 on palliative or terminal care.2 Numerous studies have been performed since that time, with most concentrating on the analgesic properties of cannabis and its derivatives.

Antiemetic (anti-nausea) use

Early on, THC had been shown to be effective for some patients who suffered nausea from cancer chemotherapy treatments. However, the narrow window between the anti-emetic dose and that which caused unwanted psychic effects made THC difficult to use.3 In some studies, negative side effects occurred in up to 81% of patients.4 In one of the few studies using smoked marijuana, 20% of patients dropped out of the study, while another 22% reported no relief of nausea symptoms.5 The advent of serotonin 5-HT3 receptor antagonists as new and more powerful anti-emetic drugs that were free of unwanted psychic effects has made cannabinoid use less attractive. For this reason, physicians virtually never prescribe marijuana or THC as an antiemetic for use by chemotherapy patients.6

Multiple sclerosis

Studies have shown that cannabis can relieve muscle pain and spasticity in patients suffering from multiple sclerosis7 and can control tremors in multiple sclerosis animal models.8 However, a study in ten patients with spastic multiple sclerosis showed that smoking marijuana further impaired posture and balance in those patients.9 In addition, MS patients who used marijuana had a greater number of psychiatric diagnoses and a slower mean performance time on standard neurological tests.10 Some randomized, double-blind, placebo-controlled, parallel group crossover trials have found no significant improvement of MS symptoms during cannabis plant extract use. However, in some trials patients did show an increase in aggressive behavior and paranoiac tendencies in a standard psychological test.11 Another placebo-controlled study, examining the effect of a cannabis extract on spasticity in MS, found a positive partial relief of symptoms in 40% of patients.12 A 10-week, placebo-controlled study of MS patients found that 42% withdrew due to lack of efficacy, adverse events and other reasons. Patients reported 292 unwanted effects, of which 251 were mild to moderate, including oral pain, dizziness, diarrhea, nausea. Three patients suffered five serious adverse events, including two seizures, one fall, one aspiration pneumonia, one gastroenteritis. Four patients had first-ever seizures. A minority of patients received some relief of symptoms.13 So, overall, studies show that a minority of multiple sclerosis patients can receive some symptom relief through the use of marijuana extracts or THC, although a significant percentage of patients suffer unwanted adverse effects.

Glaucoma

THC has been shown to reduce intraocular pressure in laboratory animals and humans who have glaucoma.14 However, it was found that intraocular pressure was reduced only when patients stayed under the effects of THC almost continuously.15 Since the early studies, more effective medications, such as 13-blockers and prostaglandins, have been developed to control intraocular pressure. Obviously, glaucoma medications that don't require one to be continuously high are preferable to those that have unwanted side effects.

Appetite

Regular marijuana users are aware of the phenomenon known as the "munchies." Laboratory studies have shown that THC does increase the appetite (not a good thing for most of us).16 However, for those suffering from debilitating diseases, such as AIDS-related wasting syndrome, THC has been shown to be effective in maintaining body weight.17

Analgesia (pain relief)

Some clinical studies have indicated that THC has some analgesic activity in patients with cancer.18 However, there is a narrow therapeutic window between doses that produce useful analgesia and those that produce unacceptable central nervous system effects. Several studies have shown improvement of pain at higher doses,19 while others have shown no effect or a negative effect at higher doses compared with placebo.20

 

[irishpat183]

Ha ha ha ha google crime stats and then you can get official statistics from the FBI.

This is just embarrassing now....

And where the hell do you think the doc got their info? They just made it up?

Keep in mind, as hard as this is for someone from CA, that this doc actually was very "pro" pot.

 

[Jebediah Springfield]

And where the hell do you think the doc got their info? They just made it up?

Keep in mind, as hard as this is for someone from CA, that this doc actually was very "pro" pot.

Like I said Google it.

 

[Downinthebend]

Lets be honest and reasonable here: the internet is a wonderful thing with tons of knowledge.

 

[Jebediah Springfield]

Lets be honest and reasonable here: the internet is a wonderful thing with tons of knowledge.

That is a lie spread by pot smoking hippies

 

[mgriff]

 

[DSully1995]

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/rk5byZOzayI" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

 

[Jebediah Springfield]

Sooo, I watched some of the doc and the person that said crime was rising around dispensaries was Kim J. Raney *Vice President of Police Chiefs Association* and the evidence he provides for this claim is... nothing, zilch, nada.

But the doc did say LA has 700+ dispensaries, yes I think at one point more than Starbucks, so it should be relatively easy to find the evidence of a crime epidemic in Los Angeles..............

For the other "good" arguments

Do I really need to talk about the preacher guy or the Nip it in the Bud founder??

John Redman, Executive Director for a Drug Free America, came with something half decent. Quality control issues which currently are problematic, but still I don't know what makes marijuana so special that once legalized it can't meet normal quality standards.

So yeah, I guess I'm a big fool.

 

[Jebediah Springfield]

Bongs are utensils of death

 

[irishpat183]

Dude, I'm pro-legalization. I can't stress that enough. I don't smoke pot anymore (I grew outta that in my 20's) but I have no issue with it.

I was simply bring up some points about the transition. It's not just going to end all problems. That's idiotic. I know you pot heads think it's some cure all, but there will be some issues.

And you watched some of the doc....regardless of the credit that SoCal NDfan gives to the people on the doc (why dont they just bring you on since you're the expert?) they're brought on for their insight and experence. Why is there crediblity in question? They're simply bringning up points for discussion.

Good lord. No wonder intellgent business owners are leaving CA IN DROVES.

 

[dshans]

Let's see: Black smoke means hash, white smoke means Maui Wowie?

 

[Jebediah Springfield]

Dude, I'm pro-legalization. I can't stress that enough. I don't smoke pot anymore (I grew outta that in my 20's) but I have no issue with it.

I was simply bring up some points about the transition. It's not just going to end all problems. That's idiotic. I know you pot heads think it's some cure all, but there will be some issues.

And you watched some of the doc....regardless of the credit that SoCal NDfan gives to the people on the doc (why dont they just bring you on since you're the expert?) they're brought on for their insight and experence. Why is there crediblity in question? They're simply bringning up points for discussion.

Good lord. No wonder intellgent business owners are leaving CA IN DROVES.

ha ha ha... more like, no wonder marijuana is still illegal because such smart people like you regurgitate information without fact checking.

Unless your argument is that some guy in a position of authority said XYZ, so it must be true.

Where have I heard rants about this type of nonsense hmmm

 

[Jebediah Springfield]

Let's see: Black smoke means hash, white smoke means Maui Wowie?

Hey hippie no one smokes maui wowie anymore

 

[ACamp1900]

I think it should stay illegal... for no reason other than reading dialouge/discussions like this amuse me...

 

[IrishInMissouri]

You say that you found all this and that it only sometimes help medically, you should have also found that the active component of marijuana, THC, has already been approved by the FDA for having medical benefits and is prescribed on a regular basis to patients.

It's called Marinol. All the anti-marijuana people in the media seem to always leave this bit of info out of the debate. Our government has already approved this "drug" for medical puproses.Marinol (Dronabinol) Drug Information: Description, User Reviews, Drug Side Effects, Interactions - Prescribing Information at RxList

Yeah...I found this on "google"

Medical benefits of marijuana

Anecdotal evidence for the beneficial effects of marijuana eventually led to the design of controlled scientific studies to examine the benefits of marijuana compared to other treatments. A 1997 review of 6059 marijuana-related articles in the medical literature revealed 194 titles on antiemetic properties, 56 on glaucoma, 10 on multiple sclerosis, 23 on appetite, and 11 on palliative or terminal care.2 Numerous studies have been performed since that time, with most concentrating on the analgesic properties of cannabis and its derivatives.

Antiemetic (anti-nausea) use

Early on, THC had been shown to be effective for some patients who suffered nausea from cancer chemotherapy treatments. However, the narrow window between the anti-emetic dose and that which caused unwanted psychic effects made THC difficult to use.3 In some studies, negative side effects occurred in up to 81% of patients.4 In one of the few studies using smoked marijuana, 20% of patients dropped out of the study, while another 22% reported no relief of nausea symptoms.5 The advent of serotonin 5-HT3 receptor antagonists as new and more powerful anti-emetic drugs that were free of unwanted psychic effects has made cannabinoid use less attractive. For this reason, physicians virtually never prescribe marijuana or THC as an antiemetic for use by chemotherapy patients.6

Multiple sclerosis

Studies have shown that cannabis can relieve muscle pain and spasticity in patients suffering from multiple sclerosis7 and can control tremors in multiple sclerosis animal models.8 However, a study in ten patients with spastic multiple sclerosis showed that smoking marijuana further impaired posture and balance in those patients.9 In addition, MS patients who used marijuana had a greater number of psychiatric diagnoses and a slower mean performance time on standard neurological tests.10 Some randomized, double-blind, placebo-controlled, parallel group crossover trials have found no significant improvement of MS symptoms during cannabis plant extract use. However, in some trials patients did show an increase in aggressive behavior and paranoiac tendencies in a standard psychological test.11 Another placebo-controlled study, examining the effect of a cannabis extract on spasticity in MS, found a positive partial relief of symptoms in 40% of patients.12 A 10-week, placebo-controlled study of MS patients found that 42% withdrew due to lack of efficacy, adverse events and other reasons. Patients reported 292 unwanted effects, of which 251 were mild to moderate, including oral pain, dizziness, diarrhea, nausea. Three patients suffered five serious adverse events, including two seizures, one fall, one aspiration pneumonia, one gastroenteritis. Four patients had first-ever seizures. A minority of patients received some relief of symptoms.13 So, overall, studies show that a minority of multiple sclerosis patients can receive some symptom relief through the use of marijuana extracts or THC, although a significant percentage of patients suffer unwanted adverse effects.

Glaucoma

THC has been shown to reduce intraocular pressure in laboratory animals and humans who have glaucoma.14 However, it was found that intraocular pressure was reduced only when patients stayed under the effects of THC almost continuously.15 Since the early studies, more effective medications, such as 13-blockers and prostaglandins, have been developed to control intraocular pressure. Obviously, glaucoma medications that don't require one to be continuously high are preferable to those that have unwanted side effects.

Appetite

Regular marijuana users are aware of the phenomenon known as the "munchies." Laboratory studies have shown that THC does increase the appetite (not a good thing for most of us).16 However, for those suffering from debilitating diseases, such as AIDS-related wasting syndrome, THC has been shown to be effective in maintaining body weight.17

Analgesia (pain relief)

Some clinical studies have indicated that THC has some analgesic activity in patients with cancer.18 However, there is a narrow therapeutic window between doses that produce useful analgesia and those that produce unacceptable central nervous system effects. Several studies have shown improvement of pain at higher doses,19 while others have shown no effect or a negative effect at higher doses compared with placebo.20

 

[dshans]

Hey hippie no one smokes maui wowie anymore

Can you tell I've been out of the game for quite a while?

Ssshhh ... I don't want anyone to know!

 

[Jebediah Springfield]

By the way this is what I was referring to with the "utensils of death " comment

Florida House of Representatives - HB 49 - Drug Paraphernalia

 

[Jebediah Springfield]

I think it should stay illegal... for no reason other than reading dialouge/discussions like this amuse me...

If you want a really good laugh you should check into the oppositions "good" claims lol

 

[Irish YJ]

Bongs are utensils of death

 

[dshans]

I've heard the term "swallowing one's gun," but "inhaling one's gun???" I mean, I mean, I mean ... I've been on both the receiving and providing end of a "shotgun" but a real gun, or facsimile of one, was never involved.

 

[Irish YJ]

I've heard the term "swallowing one's gun," but "inhaling one's gun???" I mean, I mean, I mean ... I've been on both the receiving and providing end of a "shotgun" but a real gun, or facsimile of one, was never involved.

Boom goes the brain... LOL
I'm pro gun, and pro weed legalization. I don't own a handgun and haven't smoked weed in 15-20 years, but just don't see the harm. But please guys, don't smoke weed and play with guns.

 

[Jebediah Springfield]

Well there is AK47

 

[Irish YJ]

Well there is AK47

 

[Jebediah Springfield]

Is that a bong?