[Vpoll] Marijuana, Weed, Pot

[RallySon]

I still don't get people's thinking on this. If you make money off of marijuana when it's illegal why would you stop doing it when it becomes legal. The law is changing nothing about marijuana is.

2nd How does legalization "push" people into other substances and behaviors?

And for those interested Discovery Channel has "reality show" about pot in Northern California up right now...

it doesn't.

Ten Years Ago Portugal Legalized All Drugs -- What Happened Next? | Alternet

For those looking for clues about how the U.S. government can tackle its domestic drug problem, the figures are enticing. Following decriminalization, Portugal eventually found itself with the lowest rates of marijuana usage in people over 15 in the EU: about 10%. Compare this to the 40% of people over 12 who regularly smoke pot in the U.S., a country with some of the most punitive drugs laws in the developed world. Drug use of all kinds has declined in Portugal: Lifetime use among seventh to ninth graders fell from 14.01% to 10.6%. Lifetime heroin use among 16-18 year olds fell from 2.5% to 1.8%. And what about those horrific HIV infection rates that prompted the move in the first place? HIV infection rates among drug users fell by an incredible 17%, while drug related deaths were reduced by more than half. "There is no doubt that the phenomenon of addiction is in decline in Portugal," said Joao Goulao, President of the Institute of Drugs and Drugs Addiction, at a press conference to mark the 10th anniversary of the law.

 

[Redbar]

it doesn't.

Ten Years Ago Portugal Legalized All Drugs -- What Happened Next? | Alternet

So now that we have established the fact that legalization would not be a half bad idea, lets get to the good part....WHY WON'T THEY DO IT?

What purpose does the War on Drugs serve? What is the government's interest that outweighs them passing up the revenue, and finally dealing with an issue more appropriately. The government dealt with prohibition and the rise of the American Gangster, they know the empirical data better than any of us what's the catch? What numbers are they looking at?

(This is when I wish Johnnykillz was here)

 

[RallySon]

So now that we have established the fact that legalization would not be a half bad idea, lets get to the good part....WHY WON'T THEY DO IT?

What purpose does the War on Drugs serve? What is the government's interest that outweighs them passing up the revenue, and finally dealing with an issue more appropriately. The government dealt with prohibition and the rise of the American Gangster, they know the empirical data better than any of us what's the catch? What numbers are they looking at?

(This is when I wish Johnnykillz was here)

My opinion on this could have a strong bias given that literally most of my relatives are in the pharma industry. Seriously, they are dug in big pharm like Alabama ticks. /ventura

When my family is together and talking about their jobs or whatever, it always devolves in to how disgustingly shady the industry truly is. Things like how some of the prominent drugs on the market barely make the cut after clinical trials because of severe liver damage or renal problems, yet most of that never makes the journals because how much money is spent to sweep **** under the rug. It's no conspiracy, it's that bad.

So given what I know, I truly believe that the pharmaceutical industry forwards the old 'alarmist propaganda' because the legalization of certain drugs would cost billions.

If you don't believe me, do some research on the smear campaign Eli Lilly ran against other pharma companies when they lost their patent on prozac. It's frightening.

It's simple fact that alcohol is far more destructive physically and mentally than marijuana could ever be. Anyone who doesn't acknowledge that is a ****ing moron. Period.

 

[GowerND11]

Harvard Economist Jeffrey Miron on Why Drugs Should Be Legalized - SPIEGEL ONLINE


Should stir some debate here. He makes some of the same points as others here in the reduction of the black market.

 

[Buster Bluth]

So now that we have established the fact that legalization would not be a half bad idea, lets get to the good part....WHY WON'T THEY DO IT?

What purpose does the War on Drugs serve? What is the government's interest that outweighs them passing up the revenue, and finally dealing with an issue more appropriately. The government dealt with prohibition and the rise of the American Gangster, they know the empirical data better than any of us what's the catch? What numbers are they looking at?

(This is when I wish Johnnykillz was here)

What happened to Johnny??

As for the question, there are billions of dollars to be made my private prisons, which have boomed over the last few decades. Why change policies when you can force someone to live behind bars and make your campaign contributors richer? So many DEA and cops depend on playing cowboys and indians with cannabis users/dealers, their funding would dry up if they didn't have the invisible enemy. Then there's the business that many corporations would potentially lose (beer/tobacco, pharm). The government isn't half as noble as they pretend to be.

I learned the other day that more Colombians die from American cigarettes than Americans die from Colombian drugs, yet we are the ones whose tax payers pay billions of dollars to fight a psuedo-war in their country. Our policies are ***-backwards.

 

[Redbar]

What happened to Johnny??

As for the question, there are billions of dollars to be made my private prisons, which have boomed over the last few decades. Why change policies when you can force someone to live behind bars and make your campaign contributors richer? So many DEA and cops depend on playing cowboys and indians with cannabis users/dealers, their funding would dry up if they didn't have the invisible enemy. Then there's the business that many corporations would potentially lose (beer/tobacco, pharm). The government isn't half as noble as they pretend to be.

I learned the other day that more Colombians die from American cigarettes than Americans die from Colombian drugs, yet we are the ones whose tax payers pay billions of dollars to fight a psuedo-war in their country. Our policies are ***-backwards.

We have a winner! I am also concerned that it is not just dollars and cents but also psychological, in the sense that it is an excuse for the state to exert itself on the individual. Power seeks absolute power and so I guess that is natural, as an individual I feel obligated to resist this.

As for Johnnykillz, he said he was going to take a little break after the TP threats I believe.

 

[LoveThee]

Students/Alumni:

What is the pot scene like at ND?

 

[dshans]

Students/Alumni:

What is the pot scene like at ND?

As an alum (class of '74) my observations are outdated. As a self-proclaimed "Hippie Domer" my experiences are skewed. It was readily available and smoked by a broad cross section of students I "hung" with. A & L, Engineering, Pre-Med, Architecture, Management Business and even Theology majors.

Other illicit substances made the rounds. Ah, the stories (that no one cares to hear) that I could tell ...

 

[IrishSpartan]

So, when medical marijuana was allowed in Michigan he didn't change professions...

He actually was a chemical engineer and does this part time. Needless to say he's an awesome person to have a conversation with.

 

[Jebediah Springfield]

He actually was a chemical engineer and does this part time. Needless to say he's an awesome person to have a conversation with.

I was joking about people suddenly stopping their involvement with marijuana when it is legalized.

$200k part time... Probably in the 1% of 1% of growers.

 

[Bobias]

I was joking about people suddenly stopping their involvement with marijuana when it is legalized.

$200k part time... Probably in the 1% of 1% of growers.

No, not really at all. If you don't have to worry about your house having a spike in electricity then it isn't hard at all to pull in 200k a year. Especially since he is producing it at prohibition prices of around 3k an lb. It is not hard at all to produce 6 lbs a month if you can dedicate around 100 sq ft to growing. 6x3=18k per month not including the additional 4k in concentrates you can produce too. Minus costs for electricity, water, security, nutrients, depreciation on equipment, property taxes, and insurance and you are still pulling in 15-20 per month easy. And as far as time requirements go its roughly 15-20 hours work each week depending on what needs to be done. I have been offered the opportunity to move to Michigan and grow which is how I know these numbers. But I have decided to stay and finish my degree first before getting into it as a profession as the opportunity will definitely be available in a few years.

 

[Buster Bluth]

No, not really at all. If you don't have to worry about your house having a spike in electricity then it isn't hard at all to pull in 200k a year. Especially since he is producing it at prohibition prices of around 3k an lb. It is not hard at all to produce 6 lbs a month if you can dedicate around 100 sq ft to growing. 6x3=18k per month not including the additional 4k in concentrates you can produce too. Minus costs for electricity, water, security, nutrients, depreciation on equipment, property taxes, and insurance and you are still pulling in 15-20 per month easy. And as far as time requirements go its roughly 15-20 hours work each week depending on what needs to be done. I have been offered the opportunity to move to Michigan and grow which is how I know these numbers. But I have decided to stay and finish my degree first before getting into it as a profession as the opportunity will definitely be available in a few years.

 

[greyhammer90]

I have decided to stay and finish my degree first before getting into it as a profession as the opportunity will definitely be available in a few years.

 

[Bobias]

aaaaand that's it. You make a buttload of money and get to grow your own ultra high grade pot legally! What could be better than that?

 

[Jebediah Springfield]

No, not really at all. If you don't have to worry about your house having a spike in electricity then it isn't hard at all to pull in 200k a year. Especially since he is producing it at prohibition prices of around 3k an lb. It is not hard at all to produce 6 lbs a month if you can dedicate around 100 sq ft to growing. 6x3=18k per month not including the additional 4k in concentrates you can produce too. Minus costs for electricity, water, security, nutrients, depreciation on equipment, property taxes, and insurance and you are still pulling in 15-20 per month easy. And as far as time requirements go its roughly 15-20 hours work each week depending on what needs to be done. I have been offered the opportunity to move to Michigan and grow which is how I know these numbers. But I have decided to stay and finish my degree first before getting into it as a profession as the opportunity will definitely be available in a few years.

Many people have come to Cali with this dream... Seen a bunch fail. Your scenario assumes ... no pest outbreaks... diseases... trimmers...a strain ppl are willing to pay 3k for. Most of all, knowing how to grow. Very few newbs will pull this off by themselves.

 

[Bobias]

Many people have come to Cali with this dream... Seen a bunch fail. Your scenario assumes ... no pest outbreaks... diseases... trimmers...a strain ppl are willing to pay 3k for. Most of all, knowing how to grow. Very few newbs will pull this off by themselves.

That is the thing. I was offered to grow in Michigan where the prices are much much higher than Cali. The typical going rate for an lb in Cali right now is around 800 outdoor, 1500 indoor while the going rate for decent outdoor in Michigan is 2000 with indoor ranging from 26-3200. The market is also much less developed and saturated thus if it looks, smells, and smokes good then it will be sold. I understand how saturated the market is out there which is why only an idiot would pack up everything and go for the green rush out west instead of staying home and capitalizing when their state or origin legalizes. Much less competition that way, with a larger opportunity for growth. I've had friends move to Cali to grow and it usually end how you say. Either that or they start shipping their crop outta state in which case defeats the purpose of moving out there anyways, and they engage in interstate drug trafficking which makes them a much bigger target than if they had stayed home and grown small time.

As far as disease and pests go, those are are always a risk, but can mostly be prevented if you know how to handle those situations and have experience then it shouldn't be too difficult. But you are right that it will be a massive undertaking if they haven't ever grown before and could result in some unfortunate setbacks, but I've already gotten a lot of experience with my friend who offered me the position so I wouldn't be going in blind either.

 

[Jebediah Springfield]

That is the thing. I was offered to grow in Michigan where the prices are much much higher than Cali. The typical going rate for an lb in Cali right now is around 800 outdoor, 1500 indoor while the going rate for decent outdoor in Michigan is 2000 with indoor ranging from 26-3200. The market is also much less developed and saturated thus if it looks, smells, and smokes good then it will be sold. I understand how saturated the market is out there which is why only an idiot would pack up everything and go for the green rush out west instead of staying home and capitalizing when their state or origin legalizes. Much less competition that way, with a larger opportunity for growth. I've had friends move to Cali to grow and it usually end how you say. Either that or they start shipping their crop outta state in which case defeats the purpose of moving out there anyways, and they engage in interstate drug trafficking which makes them a much bigger target than if they had stayed home and grown small time.

Yeah I realized after posting that Mich isn't Ca lol. Just wondering, what goes for $3200 out there... can the average person recognize a strain or "brand"?

 

[Bobias]

Yeah I realized after posting that Mich isn't Ca lol. Just wondering, what goes for $3200 out there... can the average person recognize a strain or "brand"?

No not really. If its grown well indoors and looks and smells great then people up there don't care about the name much at all. The market is developing and maturing, but is nowhere near Cali or Colorado as far specific strains go.

 

[Jebediah Springfield]

On the pest/disease thing, yeah I have CA as my point of reference. Pest/disease(s) are spread all over by clones passed around and/or improper ways of handling that situation. Pretty much every grower will get effed by one of those in their career.

And you have a mentor of sorts and some experience. You got lucky, I don't know if I know people who are making 200k off a 10x10 and then giving that away to someone.

For your last post, Michigan sounds like Blue Dream heaven :smilewink

 

[Black Irish]

On the pest/disease thing, yeah I have CA as my point of reference. Pest/disease(s) are spread all over by clones passed around and/or improper ways of handling that situation. Pretty much every grower will get effed by one of those in their career.

And you have a mentor of sorts and some experience. You got lucky, I don't know if I know people who are making 200k off a 10x10 and then giving that away to someone.

For your last post, Michigan sounds like Blue Dream heaven :smilewink

Until the unions get involved.

 

[GoIrish41]

I still don't get people's thinking on this. If you make money off of marijuana when it's illegal why would you stop doing it when it becomes legal. The law is changing nothing about marijuana is.

2nd How does legalization "push" people into other substances and behaviors?

And for those interested Discovery Channel has "reality show" about pot in Northern California up right now...

During Prohibition, there were lots of bootleggers across the country who made money off something that was illegal. When alcoholic beverages became legal, those businessmen went on to other business ventures. Why, as a consumer, would you take a change of getting caught purchasing something illegally when you can get it legally?

 

[greyhammer90]

During Prohibition, there were lots of bootleggers across the country who made money off something that was illegal. When alcoholic beverages became legal, those businessmen went on to other business ventures. Why, as a consumer, would you take a change of getting caught purchasing something illegally when you can get it legally?

For the rush maaan...

 

[Jebediah Springfield]

During Prohibition, there were lots of bootleggers across the country who made money off something that was illegal. When alcoholic beverages became legal, those businessmen went on to other business ventures. Why, as a consumer, would you take a change of getting caught purchasing something illegally when you can get it legally?

Yes, middlemen and growers that can't compete will lose their "job". That is different then stopping something when it's legalized. If someone is making money off this biz while it is illegal, better believe they will try it when it is legal.

Where are these people getting legal alcohol? Who made that legal alcohol?

 

[GoIrish41]

Yes, middlemen and growers that can't compete will lose their "job". That is different then stopping something when it's legalized. If someone is making money off this biz while it is illegal, better believe they will try it when it is legal.

Where are these people getting legal alcohol? Who made that legal alcohol?

Not sure I'm following your argument. Are you saying that someone who grows weed now illegally will try to turn that into a legal business? If that is what you are saying, I think I may disagree. Like any other cash crop, farmers (mostly large corporate farmers) would likely take over the "growing" portion. The sales and distribution would be similarly taken over by professional distribution and retailers. When I think of a guy selling weed, I don't think of a guy that has enough energy or motivation to open a business to sell his wares, but that is just me.

 

[Jebediah Springfield]

Not sure I'm following your argument. Are you saying that someone who grows weed now illegally will try to turn that into a legal business? If that is what you are saying, I think I may disagree. Like any other cash crop, farmers (mostly large corporate farmers) would likely take over the "growing" portion. The sales and distribution would be similarly taken over by professional distribution and retailers. When I think of a guy selling weed, I don't think of a guy that has enough energy or motivation to open a business to sell his wares, but that is just me.

Lol then you have never been to California...

 

[RDU Irish]

I smh at $200K/year profit from small scale pot growing. No way Adam Smith's invisible hand lets that persist. Track Colorado and California's pot prices historically and I am sure Michigan follow a similar trajectory.

However, developing a network of growers/apprentices ready to expand into newly legalized states seems like a great way to stay ahead of the excess profits.

Portugal article kicked butt too.

 

[RDU Irish]

Well to do Americans get their scripts and go to rehab when caught. Less affluent do meth, coke and weed and go to jail when they get caught. Same f-ing hypocrites that lament drug legalization can't live without their Prozac or Oxycontin and take enough drugs in a week to kill a horse.

Unintended consequence of drug legalization - Lower healthcare costs as rich losers get their fix on their own dime instead of stressing the healthcare system for their fix. I'm looking at you Rush Limbaugh and Bret Favre.

 

[irishpat183]

Well to do Americans get their scripts and go to rehab when caught. Less affluent do meth, coke and weed and go to jail when they get caught. Same f-ing hypocrites that lament drug legalization can't live without their Prozac or Oxycontin and take enough drugs in a week to kill a horse.

Unintended consequence of drug legalization - Lower healthcare costs as rich losers get their fix on their own dime instead of stressing the healthcare system for their fix. I'm looking at you Rush Limbaugh and Bret Favre.

Nice assumption...but not gonna happen.

Health care costs will continue to rise. And making a drug legal, while I don't disagree with it being legal, won't make a damn bit of difference.


It's amazing that if we just legalize weed, all the worlds problems will go away. Some of you on here are hilariously delusional.

Just say it. You want weed legalized because you want to smoke it and feel good about it. I got no issue with that as that's your thing. But these assumptions about crime rates, lower health care...etc. are just assumptions.


And I'm sure Limpballs and Farve can afford their own drugs many times over and have been buying them under the table for some time now with the amount they use...

 

[DSully1995]

Nice assumption...but not gonna happen.

Health care costs will continue to rise. And making a drug legal, while I don't disagree with it being legal, won't make a damn bit of difference.


It's amazing that if we just legalize weed, all the worlds problems will go away. Some of you on here are hilariously delusional.

Just say it. You want weed legalized because you want to smoke it and feel good about it. I got no issue with that as that's your thing. But these assumptions about crime rates, lower health care...etc. are just assumptions.


And I'm sure Limpballs and Farve can afford their own drugs many times over and have been buying them under the table for some time now with the amount they use...

Im pretty sure if people were also allowed to grow their own plants once its legal, there would be a decrease in the amount of pain meds prescribed.

Although the pharmaceutical response to this is only to allow "approved" marijuana from pharmacies, to basically swapping products but not lose the clients

 

[irishpat183]

Im pretty sure if people were also allowed to grow their own plants once its legal, there would be a decrease in the amount of pain meds prescribed.

Although the pharmaceutical response to this is only to allow "approved" marijuana from pharmacies, to basically swapping products but not lose the clients

Government doesn't even let us grow our own food...keep that in mind.

Big Pharm will have their hand in it. YOu can bet your sweet a$$.