U$C Fallout

Old Man Mike

Fast as Lightning!
Messages
8,965
Reaction score
6,453
Though I agree with Neutered [for bringing us back from the brink of terminal seriousness], I also agree with the Oracle in Residence. Maybe what NCAA football needs is a cabal of undercover spies who look into what the major Meat Factories actually do vis-a-vis "student/ATHLETES" and expose the curricular comedies. I believe that ND, the service academies, and only a few others would survive this covert inspection. I also believe that almost no one, most assuredly the media, wants to do this. It would threaten the "fun" created by the illusion of the group of good kids doing their schoolwork, growing into good citizens, and preparing for something other than the NFL. I will bet that "Florida State" semi-attended music appreciation classes on the internet are rampant in one form or another--and that "wink-wink" that is a major sell in casual recruiting commentaries off-the-record.
 
Messages
197
Reaction score
9
Though I agree with Neutered [for bringing us back from the brink of terminal seriousness], I also agree with the Oracle in Residence. Maybe what NCAA football needs is a cabal of undercover spies who look into what the major Meat Factories actually do vis-a-vis "student/ATHLETES" and expose the curricular comedies. I believe that ND, the service academies, and only a few others would survive this covert inspection. I also believe that almost no one, most assuredly the media, wants to do this. It would threaten the "fun" created by the illusion of the group of good kids doing their schoolwork, growing into good citizens, and preparing for something other than the NFL. I will bet that "Florida State" semi-attended music appreciation classes on the internet are rampant in one form or another--and that "wink-wink" that is a major sell in casual recruiting commentaries off-the-record.

All teams with big football programs cheat and you are naive to think that ND does not as well. Don't you remember Kim Dunbar incident. Eric Chappell paid for his tutor to write a term paper for him.

These are just the ones that have been caught. Imagine how many go undetected. If this were to happen every team in the SEC will be on probation for the next 50 years. LOL
 

TDHeysus

FLOOR(RAND()*(N-D+1))+D;
Messages
3,315
Reaction score
355
No.

Neither one of those two were ND bound, even if USC got the death penalty.

Prater was borderline, but Weis' situation prolly made it impossible. Here is a DIRECT situation where the negative backlash (even among ND ppl) hurt Notre Dame's ability to recruit - USC benefited from it

Henderson was never coming to ND. He doesnt fit on just about every single level. He used ND to watch another USC game on the road
 
Last edited:

Old Man Mike

Fast as Lightning!
Messages
8,965
Reaction score
6,453
To Reggie Bush: incidents like the Dunbar case [which has been discussed cogently on this forum by BGIF and thoroughly trashed as a negative reflection on ND football organizationally] has little to do with my musings about flagrant curricular "set-ups" for keeping athletes eligible if all they want to do is hit-the-weight-room and play ball. I assume that was clear to most readers, and maybe you mis-read that point. As to whether ND is perfect: I doubt that many people on this forum either 1) believe that we are [I assume that the "we" applies to both of us] , or 2) that our level of curricular games-playing would even vaguely resemble the atrocities like the FSU internet scandal. I'll admit that when I was at ND it was just this side of the Cretaceous Period, but there were NO phoney curricula--none. People like Buoniconti were English majors and on their ways to Law School. Even a guy like Stickles had big brains, just not a lot of "manners". I wonder how many others on this forum believe that ND is anything like FSU, USC, Alabama, LSU, etc in matters such as this?
 
J

johnnykillz

Guest
I'm a little apprehensive to feel any equality to the cheating going on...

We would drown very quickly come deep water at ND Reggie fuckin' Bush.

I'm still not sure of your point? Nor of your motive?
 
Messages
197
Reaction score
9
I agree to disagree. I would be utterly amazed if ND had any phony curriculum for student athletes. I do not perceive and associate such academic scandals with those teams you stated, but cheating is cheating in my books, whether it is academics, recruiting violations, boosters, and anything else.

However, my point was that teams will find away around it. IE the ND instance where a player paid a tutor to write a term paper. There is no policing that type of activity unless that individual is caught. High educational standards as ND possesses would be easy for the school to pass an inspection you have proposed that would ultimately mean nothing. There is always a way around procedure when the ultimate goal of the student is to cheat. I firmly believe that ultimately it falls on the individual when he or she decides to cheat.

Every where in every campus, there are cheaters, some more blatant than others. But cheating is cheating.
 
Last edited:
J

johnnykillz

Guest
There is cheating in work, in banks, in marriages, and in churches...

Should this be relevant to the subject?
 

NeuteredDoomer

RIP - You are missed
Messages
6,714
Reaction score
434
While ND is nowhere near as reprehensible or blatant in its favoritism toward student-athletes, it would be equally reprehensible to believe that Notre Dame's athletes are held to the same academic standards as the normal student. As a recent graduate and teaching assistant...

I find this entire post reprehensible. I will try to respond in a decent manner as soon as I stop seeing red. Until then, since when did ND allow not only undergrad teaching assistants, but undergrad teaching assistants that "rat out" their house citing one very questionable example while coming across as a pussy chomping on sour grapes, and ending with an annoying "Go Irish?" I swear if you were sitting next to me right now...
 
J

johnnykillz

Guest
When Deer Attack Assistant Paper Graders

When Deer Attack Assistant Paper Graders

<object width="480" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/LNGGbozilko&hl=en_US&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/LNGGbozilko&hl=en_US&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385"></embed></object>
 

ResLife Hero

Well-known member
Messages
6,737
Reaction score
190
Listen, I don't understand why you're pissed or think Im a pussy chomping on sour grapes. I have nothing to be sour about, and none of this really bothered me at the time. What bothers me is people who post about every secondary and major violation in the ncaa while thinking that ND never gets its hands dirty. I didn't rat anyone out, I was just trying to show that we aren't immune from the crap that every school with a decent athletic program goes through. You want to call that ratting out, fine. I love the University I graduated from and I love the football team. I just have a realistic attitude toward it and college football in general. I was recruited out of high school for basketball (although not by ND), and even I saw shady stuff from schools you wouldn't expect. I was just trying to use a concrete example to emphasize that the problems that caused the USC sanctions are pervasive (allbeit at various levels) throughout college athletics. No harm intended.
 
J

johnnykillz

Guest
Your blunt approach cannot be denied. Your motive seems apparent. But I'm a skeptic. You have ulterior intention. To me, I see a jealous soul (it's not obscured in any way), seeking out to rectify personal vendettas, even if what you present is indeed fact. State your case, and be on your way.

For what you create here is nothing in the realm of what a Notre Dame fan should seek to embrace, even if what we portray in your theory is homerism in its truest form.

In fact, I see Go Irish's (!!!) example on another thread coming through loud and proud. And a semi-well written response in logical order doesn't wow me.

I realize this is the part where a moderator will step in and correct my misdemeanor. I cannot banish you nor do I seek to do so. You are an ND Alumni, and I will not doubt that as several members here are. I am not. I am subway alumni through and through, though. And I stand for issues and protect this association I have chosen to be a part of.

I do hope to enjoy the good parts of your ND experience and hope to dream from your rendition of the rich knowlege you have from inside the friendly campus of what it must be like to have the title you hold.
 
Last edited:

Old Man Mike

Fast as Lightning!
Messages
8,965
Reaction score
6,453
To ResLifeHero: peace brother. My comments way back in this thread were to emphasize my belief, and my experience, that Notre Dame has FAR less academic game-playing than most other big programs in order to keep athletes eligible and even recruit them initially. Nowhere am I claiming an all-angels/devils situation. The world needs more higher cognitive thinkers ands less black/white reactionaries. Lets get a little gray on this. My point is that I believe that ND's "gray" is a heckuva lot closer to "white" than the typical meat factories. ND has never had scandals of the extent that places like FSU have had. ND graduates its athletes; that I believe is not only incontrovertible but quite closely related to real education. When ND graduates get in front of cameras, they tend to make me proud, not embarrassed. ND does not roll out entire line-ups composed of "general education" or "sports administration" or whatever suspicious label shows on screen--yeh, I know that it's possible to get a great education out of any title [I taught University for 30 years] but the odds weigh against certain interpretations. I had three brothers play big-time football--horror stories galore. A major investigation [undercover] of what really goes on would embarrass some schools so badly that even the media dirt-mongers would have a hard time getting down to the minor infraction level that may be buried in stories such as your own--though I do not doubt you that it is true. I just believe that it is not terribly relevant to the musing that I originally made. I might also say that many things go into a professor's decision as to how to handle any student. I once gave a medal-class hammerthrower a huge break on a deadline, in order to let him follow his dream of competing in the NCAA championships. I didn't feel dirty about that.
 

NeuteredDoomer

RIP - You are missed
Messages
6,714
Reaction score
434
(Self edited my post). I posted after Old Man Mike, and liked his response better.

Peace.
 
Last edited:

Irish.Ca

New member
Messages
600
Reaction score
19
Coaches and admin staff cannot keep students from cheating if that is what they want to do. I believe that other institutions (such as USC, Florida St and Miami) may enable things like that to take place. They just give off that slimy used car salesman feel. I don't think that is the case at ND. Even Tyrone didn't give off that feeling although I feel Tenuta might have turned a blind eye if it would have helped him. I have no knowledge of anything of the sort occuring. Just the way I see it.
 

NeuteredDoomer

RIP - You are missed
Messages
6,714
Reaction score
434
I can think of other ways that I can be offended.

Who isn't naive? Can you tell me anyone in the world other than God that knows everything about everything? Even (and maybe especially) company bosses don't know all that is going on in their company. To claim that one knows better than the other can sound kind of silly. ResLife's post was extremely irritating. He or she would never work a day for me.

"The Blind Men and the Elephant"
The Buddha answered, "Once upon a time there was a certain raja who called to his servant and said, 'Come, good fellow, go and gather together in one place all the men of Savatthi who were born blind... and show them an elephant.' 'Very good, sire,' replied the servant, and he did as he was told. He said to the blind men assembled there, 'Here is an elephant,' and to one man he presented the head of the elephant, to another its ears, to another a tusk, to another the trunk, the foot, back, tail, and tuft of the tail, saying to each one that that was the elephant.

"When the blind men had felt the elephant, the raja went to each of them and said to each, 'Well, blind man, have you seen the elephant? Tell me, what sort of thing is an elephant?'

"Thereupon the men who were presented with the head answered, 'Sire, an elephant is like a pot.' And the men who had observed the ear replied, 'An elephant is like a winnowing basket.' Those who had been presented with a tusk said it was a ploughshare. Those who knew only the trunk said it was a plough; others said the body was a grainery; the foot, a pillar; the back, a mortar; the tail, a pestle, the tuft of the tail, a brush.

"Then they began to quarrel, shouting, 'Yes it is!' 'No, it is not!' 'An elephant is not that!' 'Yes, it's like that!' and so on, till they came to blows over the matter.

"Brethren, the raja was delighted with the scene.

"Just so are these preachers and scholars holding various views blind and unseeing.... In their ignorance they are by nature quarrelsome, wrangling, and disputatious, each maintaining reality is thus and thus."

Then the Exalted One rendered this meaning by uttering this verse of uplift

O how they cling and wrangle, some who claim
For preacher and monk the honored name!
For, quarreling, each to his view they cling.
Such folk see only one side of a thing.
 

GreatGolson

Formerly GreatDayne
Messages
2,956
Reaction score
133
I can think of other ways that I can be offended.

Who isn't naive? Can you tell me anyone in the world other than God that knows everything about everything? Even (and maybe especially) company bosses don't know all that is going on in their company. To claim that one knows better than the other can sound kind of silly. ResLife's post was extremely irritating. He or she would never work a day for me.

"The Blind Men and the Elephant"
The Buddha answered, "Once upon a time there was a certain raja who called to his servant and said, 'Come, good fellow, go and gather together in one place all the men of Savatthi who were born blind... and show them an elephant.' 'Very good, sire,' replied the servant, and he did as he was told. He said to the blind men assembled there, 'Here is an elephant,' and to one man he presented the head of the elephant, to another its ears, to another a tusk, to another the trunk, the foot, back, tail, and tuft of the tail, saying to each one that that was the elephant.

"When the blind men had felt the elephant, the raja went to each of them and said to each, 'Well, blind man, have you seen the elephant? Tell me, what sort of thing is an elephant?'

"Thereupon the men who were presented with the head answered, 'Sire, an elephant is like a pot.' And the men who had observed the ear replied, 'An elephant is like a winnowing basket.' Those who had been presented with a tusk said it was a ploughshare. Those who knew only the trunk said it was a plough; others said the body was a grainery; the foot, a pillar; the back, a mortar; the tail, a pestle, the tuft of the tail, a brush.

"Then they began to quarrel, shouting, 'Yes it is!' 'No, it is not!' 'An elephant is not that!' 'Yes, it's like that!' and so on, till they came to blows over the matter.

"Brethren, the raja was delighted with the scene.

"Just so are these preachers and scholars holding various views blind and unseeing.... In their ignorance they are by nature quarrelsome, wrangling, and disputatious, each maintaining reality is thus and thus."

Then the Exalted One rendered this meaning by uttering this verse of uplift

O how they cling and wrangle, some who claim
For preacher and monk the honored name!
For, quarreling, each to his view they cling.
Such folk see only one side of a thing.
WIN
 

NeuteredDoomer

RIP - You are missed
Messages
6,714
Reaction score
434
I meant to say "other than God or Jason" but I forgot.

I see that poster Reggie Bush just flashed me a red dot neg rep with a feisty message. I guess he was offended.

Not necessary buddy. Peace.
 
Last edited:

Old Man Mike

Fast as Lightning!
Messages
8,965
Reaction score
6,453
Because there has been some commentary about academic standards [or the lack of them] with comparisons to other schools and ND, I thought it at least worth a mention of a quote from the recent South Bend Tribune attributed to Aaron Lynch. "A lot of the players (at Island Coast High School) like FSU or Florida, and they were like 'Why would you go to Indiana and play for this highly academic school, when you can go to FSU and play, and you don't have to do a lot of work. You just pass right through'." Lynch then said: "I'd rather come to a school and work hard to be successful, rather than just have it handed to me." --- right on young man, and right in line with what many of my brothers and my own contacts have told me about [generally speaking] the difference between ND and most other programs.
 
J

johnnykillz

Guest
Lynch is a winner. This kid will make the NFL. Period. Neutered, I gots plenty o' green for you. One red dot can't equate my green.

Feel me?

I say we make a project outta this Reggie Bush and bring him to the light.
 

NeuteredDoomer

RIP - You are missed
Messages
6,714
Reaction score
434
Lynch is a winner. This kid will make the NFL. Period. Neutered, I gots plenty o' green for you. One red dot can't equate my green.

Feel me?

I say we make a project outta this Reggie Bush and bring him to the light.

Nah Brother. We all buds. Reggie Bush seems like a legit East Bay guy. Dem some badass mofos.
 

GreatGolson

Formerly GreatDayne
Messages
2,956
Reaction score
133
I'd love to see Aaron become the next ndomakong suh, if he plays his cards right, it just might happen!
 
Top