Trump Presidency

[GATTACA!]

If Pence did not have the power to do anything, why did the Uniparty quickly act to reform the law in regards to the VP's power? He did have the authority to send the count back to state legislatures to look further into possible election fraud.

What the Electoral Count Reform Act Means for States

Days before the end of the 117th Congress, an omnibus appropriations bill was signed by President Joe Biden. Included in that 4,000-page spending law was the Electoral Count Reform and Presidential Transition Improvement Act of 2022, or ECRA. Hammered out by lawmakers including Sens. Joe...

www.ncsl.org

 

[ulukinatme]

This would be like your wife planning on having you murdered. She gets your in-laws to agree to pay for it. But the hitman she contacts is an undercover cop. The cop would never have done it so her plan could have never worked! Therefor none of them should be in trouble!

Not the same. The cop still has the ability to go through with the murder depending on if they're legit or not. Pence didn't have the ability to do what Trump wanted. Per the AP and experts, the vice president has no power to unilaterally “change” or overturn the presidential election results of a state under the Constitution or any law.

A better analogy would be your wife planning on washing your dishes with the microwave. She can try to put the dishes in there and turn it on, but nothing is going to happen.

 

[ulukinatme]

If Pence did not have the power to do anything, why did the Uniparty quickly act to reform the law in regards to the VP's power? He did have the authority to send the count back to state legislatures to look further into possible election fraud.

What the Electoral Count Reform Act Means for States

Days before the end of the 117th Congress, an omnibus appropriations bill was signed by President Joe Biden. Included in that 4,000-page spending law was the Electoral Count Reform and Presidential Transition Improvement Act of 2022, or ECRA. Hammered out by lawmakers including Sens. Joe...

www.ncsl.org

Here's the article I pulled the info from. My guess is that reform was put in place for posturing and to cement the already established notion that the VP's role is ceremonial only. According to your article the language may have been seen as imprecise before.

Vice president doesn’t have power to ‘change the outcome’ of elections

False. The vice president has no power to unilaterally “change” or overturn the presidential election results of a state under the Constitution or any law, experts say.

apnews.com

 

[GATTACA!]

Not the same. The cop still has the ability to go through with the murder depending on if they're legit or not. Pence didn't have the ability to do what Trump wanted. Per the AP and experts, the vice president has no power to unilaterally “change” or overturn the presidential election results of a state under the Constitution or any law.

A better analogy would be your wife planning on washing your dishes with the microwave. She can try to put the dishes in there and turn it on, but nothing is going to happen.

People planning an illegal coup aren't going to give a shit about the law or what is within their "power". There's a reason they were trying to pressure Pence to send the results back to the sates regardless of what he had the "authority" to do. And again just because it wasn't legally "possible" doesn't mean you're absolved of attempting it. Trump still incited a riot meant to break into the capital and postpone the certification, he still pressured state officials to fabricate vote totals, he still tried to coerce Pence to derelict his duties.

 

[ulukinatme]

Thats all you got? They werent unarmed and they werent all boomers so you got any other gaslighting strawmen to include? Its disgusting you are carrying these peoples water. Maybe you supported them this day? I'm having a hard time telling as I would think any red-blooded american would find their actions warranted and in keeping with the principles of a functioning constitutional republic, yet you are you are always defending them and their actions. Minimizing at every chance. I get the feeling you wanted them to succeed.

I'll add some facts to you r gaslighting strawmen:

Every weapon identified at the Insurrection so far.
Each of these was used against LEOs in an offensive manner. Stun guns, extendable batons, knives, hand axes, bats, clubs, aerosolized sprays, and a variety of improvised weapons. There were fire arms present and documented and taken from people in custody. There were at least two incidents of gun and ammo caches in vehicles and explosives parked in the vicinity of the capital. Even with these weapons and add into the fact the LEOs were intentionally kept undermanned and the NG was not allowed to deploy, and Trump allowed all of this to happen because he wanted it to happen, they succeeded. Yes. They got into the building and succeeded in a goal. Not their final goal but they stopped the certification process. The last formal step in Biden being confirmed as president.

Your defense of these clear treasonists is indefensible. They succeeded in breaking into the building and stopping the certification. You seem ok with this. They forced all members of congress plus Pence into hiding. You seem ok with this as well. Maybe you wanted it to succeed? I'm thinking you did by the way you always seem to come to their defense.

There were two things that occurred after the insurrection happened that eventually allowed the process to begin again.
1. Trump sent a tweet out telling everyone to leave. This was only after some of his White House counsel and staff convinced him he had to do it. Then after he sent a tweet out supporting the rioters. Per Cippilone ( White House Counsel):


2. Pence had a decision to make while in hiding and knowing that Trump had pressured him to stop the counting earlier and continuously through the day while the insurrection happened. No one else. Only Pence. He had to decide whether or not to start the process up again or not (going against Trump's requests) and send it back to the states where there was an already organized plan with Fake Electors to give the election to Trump. Pence had already been approached by Fake Electors trying to physically hand him their elector slate earlier in the day to count as part of the certification process (a crime). He ultimately made the decision to start it up again but all he had to do was not start it up and then it became a case of what to do next and who does what. Had he chosen otherwise or claimed some power that doesnt exist or isnt CLEARLY defined, we have a very good idea what would have happened and the plan would have been to return the electors to the state and those states with the fake electors who through legislative action or scumfuckery....would have ignored the will of the voters and given the election to Trump.

Damn, Cack! 3 guns (none of which were in the Capitol), several knives, and a shit ton of pepper spray against the U.S. Military?! Democracy almost died! Is that really your idea of an armed militia?

Talking about strawmen...where do you get the idea I was okay with them breaking into the Capitol? I just said I'm all for punishing those that caused property damage or were violent/caused bodily harm. That said, no crimes were committed for those that were outside the grounds that were peacefully protesting. I'd argue the peaceful protestors that were escorted by police into the Capitol were innocent as well, as oppose to the group that broke in first, but that's splitting hairs.

Trump didn't send a Tweet supporting the rioters. Since he was unbanned we can see what was posted:




According to archives there was one more video that happened in there where he told people to go home and be peaceful, but it's been removed.

Pence had no decision to make. His role was ceremonial only, he had no power to do anything:

Vice president doesn’t have power to ‘change the outcome’ of elections

False. The vice president has no power to unilaterally “change” or overturn the presidential election results of a state under the Constitution or any law, experts say.

apnews.com

 

[ulukinatme]

People planning an illegal coup aren't going to give a shit about the law or what is within their "power". There's a reason they were trying to pressure Pence to send the results back to the sates regardless of what he had the "authority" to do. And again just because it wasn't legally "possible" doesn't mean you're absolved of attempting it. Trump still incited a riot meant to break into the capital and postpone the certification, he still pressured state officials to fabricate vote totals, he still tried to coerce Pence to derelict his duties.

I'm not absolving Trump. This was about the pearl clutchers and the "Democracy almost died!" crowd. I simply pointed out it was all a bunch of fear mongering. Intentions can be damning, but the end of democracy was never a possibility on January 6th.

 

[GATTACA!]

Damn, Cack! 3 guns (none of which were in the Capitol), several knives, and a shit ton of pepper spray against the U.S. Military?! Democracy almost died! Is that really your idea of an armed militia?

Talking about strawmen...where do you get the idea I was okay with them breaking into the Capitol? I just said I'm all for punishing those that caused property damage or were violent/caused bodily harm. That said, no crimes were committed for those that were outside the grounds that were peacefully protesting. I'd argue the peaceful protestors that were escorted by police into the Capitol were innocent as well, as oppose to the group that broke in first, but that's splitting hairs.

Trump didn't send a Tweet supporting the rioters. Since he was unbanned we can see what was posted:




According to archives there was one more video that happened in there where he told people to go home and be peaceful, but it's been removed.

Pence had no decision to make. His role was ceremonial only, he had no power to do anything:

Vice president doesn’t have power to ‘change the outcome’ of elections

False. The vice president has no power to unilaterally “change” or overturn the presidential election results of a state under the Constitution or any law, experts say.

apnews.com

Imagine having your head this far in the fucking sand. Disgusting what MAGA has done to rational thought.

To the bolded that's complete horseshit. He sent a tweet during the riots saying that Pence didn’t have the “courage” to block or delay the election results. You know while rioters had Pence and the rest of congress hiding in the capitol while they chanted "HANG MIKE PENCE". He didn't say or do anything to try and stop the riots until hours later once it was clear his plan had failed.

 

[Cackalacky2.0]

Here's the article I pulled the info from. My guess is that reform was put in place for posturing and to cement the already established notion that the VP's role is ceremonial only. According to your article the language may have been seen as imprecise before.

Vice president doesn’t have power to ‘change the outcome’ of elections

False. The vice president has no power to unilaterally “change” or overturn the presidential election results of a state under the Constitution or any law, experts say.

apnews.com

Imprecise language being exposed and taken advantage of by politicians hungry for power? GTFOH. Thats what we have all been saying. It wasnt clear and Pence could have done any number of things.

 

[GATTACA!]

I'm not absolving Trump. This was about the pearl clutchers and the "Democracy almost died!" crowd. I simply pointed out it was all a bunch of fear mongering. Intentions can be damning, but the end of democracy was never a possibility on January 6th.

Quit repeating this. No one gives a fuck. We all watched it happen. Criminals don't care about laws. They were attempting a coup despite Pence not "having the authority". They were attempting to circumvent the will of law IN FRONT OF YOUR FACE and you'll still find a way to hand wave it away. Pathetic sheep.

 

[Cackalacky2.0]

Imagine having your head this far in the fucking sand. Disgusting what MAGA has done to rational thought.

To the bolded that's complete horseshit. He sent a tweet during the riots saying that Pence didn’t have the “courage” to block or delay the election results. You know while rioters had Pence and the rest of congress hiding in the capitol while they chanted "HANG MIKE PENCE". He didn't say or do anything to try and stop the riots until hours later once it was clear his plan had failed.

I cant.... It s sad and disgusting.

 

[GATTACA!]

Imprecise language being exposed and taken advantage of by politicians hungry for power? GTFOH. Thats what we have all been saying. It wasnt clear and Pence could have done any number of things.

Simply telling congress to go home and reconvene at a later time because of the clear threat they were under would have been enough to give Trump more wiggle room to line up fake electors and pressure state officials.

 

[Cackalacky2.0]

Damn, Cack! 3 guns (none of which were in the Capitol), several knives, and a shit ton of pepper spray against the U.S. Military?! Democracy almost died! Is that really your idea of an armed militia?

Talking about strawmen...where do you get the idea I was okay with them breaking into the Capitol? I just said I'm all for punishing those that caused property damage or were violent/caused bodily harm. That said, no crimes were committed for those that were outside the grounds that were peacefully protesting. I'd argue the peaceful protestors that were escorted by police into the Capitol were innocent as well, as oppose to the group that broke in first, but that's splitting hairs.

Trump didn't send a Tweet supporting the rioters. Since he was unbanned we can see what was posted:




According to archives there was one more video that happened in there where he told people to go home and be peaceful, but it's been removed.

Pence had no decision to make. His role was ceremonial only, he had no power to do anything:

Vice president doesn’t have power to ‘change the outcome’ of elections

False. The vice president has no power to unilaterally “change” or overturn the presidential election results of a state under the Constitution or any law, experts say.

apnews.com

650 people have been charged with possession and use of weapons in the capital. Just another day in the park. Forget the cahce of guns and explosives just out side the park and the PIPE bombs placed at the Dem and GOP headquarters..... honestly the ease with which you accept their actions is gross.

 

[TorontoGold]

Quit repeating this. No one gives a fuck. We all watched it happen. Criminals don't care about laws. They were attempting a coup despite Pence not "having the authority". They were attempting to circumvent the will of law IN FRONT OF YOUR FACE and you'll still find a way to hand wave it away. Pathetic sheep.

But, lower taxes?

 

[Cackalacky2.0]

Simply telling congress to go home and reconvene at a later time because of the clear threat they were under would have been enough to give Trump more wiggle room to line up fake electors and pressure state officials.

That is what they wanted to happen. They wanted ot stop the certification. This was the last thing done to formalize Biden as President. It was the dropdead point of no return.
Step 1. Have Pence stop the certification via pressure campaign. He didnt. (FAILURE)
Step 2. Line up agitator groups like Oath Keepers, III Percenters, and Proud Boys to start trouble. (SUCCESS!)Pence proceeded to certification, so Trump and his goons fired up the crowd and told everyone to go to Capital. (SUCCESS!) HANG MIIKE PENCE!
Step 3. Preplan to have Capital police undermanned and National Guard not be able to be deployed (SUCCESS!)
Step 4. Riot and stop certification by invading the Capital. (SUCCESS!). Pence and Congress have to leave for their safety and the formal process is stopped.
Step 5. Keep Pence from certification or have him at least not restart it. (FAILURE). This is where it changed. Pence absolutely could have said you know what.... Im not totally sure what my role is and I need clarification.... Certifcation is stopped and now its all political and legal decisions on just what the outer bounds of this formality actually is or can some authority be claimed that hasnt been claimed before.
Step 6. They had Fake electors in GOP led Swing states already signed up and forms filled out ready to fulfill their "DUTY".

 

[Cackalacky2.0]

Quit repeating this. No one gives a fuck. We all watched it happen. Criminals don't care about laws. They were attempting a coup despite Pence not "having the authority". They were attempting to circumvent the will of law IN FRONT OF YOUR FACE and you'll still find a way to hand wave it away. Pathetic sheep.

Crimes do not require success to be considered a crime. One overt act to progress the crime is all that is required. I dont understand why he cant understand this.

 

[Cackalacky2.0]

Damn, Cack! 3 guns (none of which were in the Capitol), several knives, and a shit ton of pepper spray against the U.S. Military?! Democracy almost died! Is that really your idea of an armed militia?

Talking about strawmen...where do you get the idea I was okay with them breaking into the Capitol? I just said I'm all for punishing those that caused property damage or were violent/caused bodily harm. That said, no crimes were committed for those that were outside the grounds that were peacefully protesting. I'd argue the peaceful protestors that were escorted by police into the Capitol were innocent as well, as oppose to the group that broke in first, but that's splitting hairs.

Trump didn't send a Tweet supporting the rioters. Since he was unbanned we can see what was posted:




According to archives there was one more video that happened in there where he told people to go home and be peaceful, but it's been removed.

Pence had no decision to make. His role was ceremonial only, he had no power to do anything:

Vice president doesn’t have power to ‘change the outcome’ of elections

False. The vice president has no power to unilaterally “change” or overturn the presidential election results of a state under the Constitution or any law, experts say.

apnews.com

smh. You are literally posting Trump's tweets about going home? HE ONLY DID THIS AFTER HIS ENTIRE FUCKING STAFF, LEGAL COUNSEL AND FAMILY SAID YOU HAVE GOT TO STOP THIS, Ashley Babbit was dead, and rioters were just milling about at this point because they couldn't go any further. That motherfucker was sitting in the White House watching with glee what was happening. All he had to do ( and what he should have done as the POTUS with a riot on his hands at the Capital) was at 145pm call in the national guard. He didnt because HE WANTED THIS EXACT OUTCOME. Its the whole reason they were there. He wanted it to stop the certification to give them more time to take the election away from Biden.

There is really only one reason why anyone would be trying as hard as you to minimize the conduct on this day.... and it sure as hell isnt because you disagree with what they did. Every American should be absolutely disgusted what occurred that day and every single person who took part in it is a fucking traitor.

 

[ulukinatme]

Imagine having your head this far in the fucking sand. Disgusting what MAGA has done to rational thought.

To the bolded that's complete horseshit. He sent a tweet during the riots saying that Pence didn’t have the “courage” to block or delay the election results. You know while rioters had Pence and the rest of congress hiding in the capitol while they chanted "HANG MIKE PENCE". He didn't say or do anything to try and stop the riots until hours later once it was clear his plan had failed.

Yeah, he said something about that, it was earlier in the evening prior to the call to be peaceful and disperse.

I'm not MAGA, my guy. It's okay, I always thought you were pretty rational. Never thought you'd go to the Cack side.

 

[ulukinatme]

smh. You are literally posting Trump's tweets about going home? HE ONLY DID THIS AFTER HIS ENTIRE FUCKING STAFF, LEGAL COUNSEL AND FAMILY SAID YOU HAVE GOT TO STOP THIS, Ashley Babbit was dead, and rioters were just milling about at this point because they couldn't go any further. That motherfucker was sitting in the White House watching with glee what was happening. All he had to do ( and what he should have done as the POTUS with a riot on his hands at the Capital) was at 145pm call in the national guard. He didnt because HE WANTED THIS EXACT OUTCOME. Its the whole reason they were there. He wanted it to stop the certification to give them more time to take the election away from Biden.

There is really only one reason why anyone would be trying as hard as you to minimize the conduct on this day.... and it sure as hell isnt because you disagree with what they did. Every American should be absolutely disgusted what occurred that day and every single person who took part in it is a fucking traitor.

So the people outside on the steps that didn't hurt anyone and were peacefully protesting are just as guilty as the idiots that damaged property and injured officers?

 

[GATTACA!]

Yeah, he said something about that, it was earlier in the evening prior to the call to be peaceful and disperse.

I'm not MAGA, my guy. It's okay, I always thought you were pretty rational. Never thought you'd go to the Cack side.

Could have fooled me. You're carrying enough water for them and will be running to the polls to vote for their candidate in November.

I can't believe I'm not swayed by your very rational argument of "it was illegal, therefore it couldn't have happened" followed up by "because it "couldn't" have happened idk why everyone is making such a big deal out of a sitting president trying to overturn a free election".

 

[ulukinatme]

Could have fooled me. You're carrying enough water for them and will be running to the polls to vote for their candidate in November.

I can't believe I'm not swayed by your very rational argument of "it was illegal, therefore it couldn't have happened" followed up by "because it "couldn't" have happened idk why everyone is making such a big deal out of a sitting president trying to overturn a free election".

I just like to counter the overreaction and pearl clutching. I don't own any Trump merchandise, and I'd rather he get the hell out of politics. I probably will vote for him, but only because the alternative is Biden and a vote for anyone other than the two primary candidates is wasted in this country. My family was better off four years ago, and based on the current turmoil in Ukraine and the Middle East, so was the rest of the world.

 

[GATTACA!]

I just like to counter the overreaction and pearl clutching. I don't own any Trump merchandise, and I'd rather he get the hell out of politics. I probably will vote for him, but only because the alternative is Biden and a vote for anyone other than the two primary candidates is wasted in this country. My family was better off four years ago, and based on the current turmoil in Ukraine and the Middle East, so was the rest of the world.

With any luck we'll get a third Trump term too!

 

[TorontoGold]

I just like to counter the overreaction and pearl clutching. I don't own any Trump merchandise, and I'd rather he get the hell out of politics. I probably will vote for him, but only because the alternative is Biden and a vote for anyone other than the two primary candidates is wasted in this country. My family was better off four years ago, and based on the current turmoil in Ukraine and the Middle East, so was the rest of the world.

What economic measures are you comparing Trump with Biden?

If you’re ascribing Biden with Ukraine and ME, would you then say Trump is at fault for COVID?

 

[ulukinatme]

What economic measures are you comparing Trump with Biden?

If you’re ascribing Biden with Ukraine and ME, would you then say Trump is at fault for COVID?

The child tax credit, for one, helped reduce our tax debt by $3,000 extra bucks. It didn't hurt that the business I worked for at the time gave me a little kickback during the tax cuts, although I realize many weren't so lucky. We got right in on the bubble of the housing market too, sold our house for twice what I paid for 10 years prior and built a new home just as wood prices were starting to go up. There's really no comparison with the current regime, they haven't really put anything in my pocket to help us out, they've really just taken away when you factor inflation. I won't debate how much of that is attributed to the pandemic and what lies with Biden, but the fact remains we did better before.

I can see your line of reasoning with Ukraine/ME and COVID, but it's bit hard to compare localized battles and a global pandemic. Trump didn't handle COVID well at all, but not many did. Everyone was pretty damned at the end of the day. One thing is certain when it comes to Ukraine and the Middle East, it was a more peaceful time under Trump. Biden's proxy war hasn't deterred or stopped Putin and he's running out of gas. For whatever reason, Putin didn't have the balls to move on Ukraine while Trump was in office.

 

[GATTACA!]

For whatever reason, Putin didn't have the balls to move on Ukraine while Trump was in office.

He was massing troops for "training exercises" on the border. Seems pretty obvious he was hoping Trump would win the election and then he could invade with little to no involvement from the US.

 

[Cackalacky2.0]

He was massing troops for "training exercises" on the border. Seems pretty obvious he was hoping Trump would win the election and then he could invade with little to no involvement from the US.

For real like it was so obvious at the time

 

[Cackalacky2.0]

Yeah, he said something about that, it was earlier in the evening prior to the call to be peaceful and disperse.

I'm not MAGA, my guy. It's okay, I always thought you were pretty rational. Never thought you'd go to the Cack side.

You can’t tar anyone with my brush. I’m not on the wrong side here defending insurrectionists.

 

[TorontoGold]

The child tax credit, for one, helped reduce our tax debt by $3,000 extra bucks. It didn't hurt that the business I worked for at the time gave me a little kickback during the tax cuts, although I realize many weren't so lucky. We got right in on the bubble of the housing market too, sold our house for twice what I paid for 10 years prior and built a new home just as wood prices were starting to go up. There's really no comparison with the current regime, they haven't really put anything in my pocket to help us out, they've really just taken away when you factor inflation. I won't debate how much of that is attributed to the pandemic and what lies with Biden, but the fact remains we did better before.

I can see your line of reasoning with Ukraine/ME and COVID, but it's bit hard to compare localized battles and a global pandemic. Trump didn't handle COVID well at all, but not many did. Everyone was pretty damned at the end of the day. One thing is certain when it comes to Ukraine and the Middle East, it was a more peaceful time under Trump. Biden's proxy war hasn't deterred or stopped Putin and he's running out of gas. For whatever reason, Putin didn't have the balls to move on Ukraine while Trump was in office.

View attachment 3055454

So in terms of assessing a President's economic success, government transfers are important? Do you believe you'll get more under a Republican administration? What kind of transfers are you looking forward to?

If you were to look back, comparatively Trump's 4 years vs Obama's 8 years. Obama did much better, if economics are your main concerns - why not vote for his VP? Especially given his success in economic recovery, since when Trump left things weren't really in a great spot.

So just to be clear, Ukraine falls at the feet of Biden even though NATO is 31 countries and Russia was building up troops on the border during Trumps term. ME conflict is Biden, because....? Like Joe Hamas is thinking "Ok, thank god Joe Biden is in charge, let's do an Oct 7th". Never mind the Abraham accords during Trump's term.

We don't like attributing anything bad from Covid to Trump because it was a global thing, but historical conflicts across the sea is on Joe because? How many American troops died in these conflicts?

Too each their own, I just don't see how the government transfers guy is Trump and I can't wrap my head around deciding who's fault it is for which event.

 

[Cackalacky2.0]

So the people outside on the steps that didn't hurt anyone and were peacefully protesting are just as guilty as the idiots that damaged property and injured officers?

Peacefully protesting? They were all there over a lie. The dumb motherfuckers didn’t have any better sense. Fuck them kids.

 

[Irish#1]

Trump's going to need a loan or two.

https://www.cnn.com/2024/02/28/politics/donald-trump-appeals-court-new-york/index.html

 

[Cackalacky2.0]

Trump's going to need a loan or two.

https://www.cnn.com/2024/02/28/politics/donald-trump-appeals-court-new-york/index.html

In order to appeal those decisions, he has to come up with a bond for 120% of each judgement.

For the tax fraud case that is 120% of over $450 million which is accruing $120k in interest daily.
For the E Jean Caroll case that is 120% of almost $90 million.

Not sure any bank will loan him jack shit. Though it wouldnt surprise me if he managed to get one.