Trump Presidency

[jprue24]

You have to figure Donnie's been getting away with a lot of shady business over the years, and these elites probably get away with it all the time because they're not a figurehead in politics. Makes you wonder what the rest of them are getting away with.

It's why the IRS wants those new employees. This is what many of them will be doing.

 

[ulukinatme]

It's why the IRS wants those new employees. This is what many of them will be doing.

I doubt they get much out of them. There's a reason the elite often have good lawyers and accountants: to cover their tracks. Trump shops bargain bin.

 

[Cackalacky2.0]

As this was a civil case it appears she has made criminal referrals as well.

New York Attorney General Letitia James says Trump committed crimes, asks federal prosecutors and IRS to investigate

James announced a civil lawsuit accusing Trump, his adult children, his business and others of submitting years of fraudulent financial statements.

www.cnbc.com

 

[Jiggafini19Deux]

It's why the IRS wants those new employees. This is what many of them will be doing.

But the general public will be told that the IRS is coming after THEM and that makes it all "overreach."

The shady business of wealthy elites is to our benefit, don't forget. In the free market, it is supposed to trickle down to us. While it never trickles down, everyone else waits and they're all planning on going to outer space.

 

[Irish#1]

You have to wonder if the judge has a handle on things. There's no way Mar a Lago is only worth $18M-$20M.

Exclusive | Real estate insiders bewildered by judge’s $18M valuation of Trump’s Mar-a-Lago: ‘Would list at $300M’

Justice Arthur Engoron’s ruling raised eyebrows by valuing the former president’s Mar-a-Lago estate at $18 million when comparable lots nearby ask much more.

nypost.com

From NBC News

Engoron noted that from 2011 to 2021, the Palm Beach County assessor appraised the market value of Mar-a-Lago at $18 million to $27.6 million. Trump's financial statements, meanwhile, put the club's value at almost $427 million to $612 million.

She said the judge's findings, including the one "that Mar-a-Lago is worth approximately $20 million," is "an affront to our legal system."

 

[ab2cmiller]

You have to wonder if the judge has a handle on things. There's no way Mar a Lago is only worth $18M-$20M.

Exclusive | Real estate insiders bewildered by judge’s $18M valuation of Trump’s Mar-a-Lago: ‘Would list at $300M’

Justice Arthur Engoron’s ruling raised eyebrows by valuing the former president’s Mar-a-Lago estate at $18 million when comparable lots nearby ask much more.

nypost.com

From NBC News

I don't know if the judge had any motive to understate the value or if he was simply using the Palm Beach County assessor figure since he assumed that person was knowledgeable as it relates to valuing property.

This news story may bring up some concern over the judge, but to me the more obvious concern is why in the heck the assessor valued it so low to begin with.

 

[Irish#1]

I don't know if the judge had any motive to understate the value or if he was simply using the Palm Beach County assessor figure since he assumed that person was knowledgeable as it relates to valuing property.

This news story may bring up some concern over the judge, but to me the more obvious concern is why in the heck the assessor valued it so low to begin with.

That's why I wonder why the judge wouldn't order their own evaluation? I don't think the judge is shady, but that property has to be worth closer to $300M - $400M. Maybe higher?

 

[ulukinatme]

You have to wonder if the judge has a handle on things. There's no way Mar a Lago is only worth $18M-$20M.

Exclusive | Real estate insiders bewildered by judge’s $18M valuation of Trump’s Mar-a-Lago: ‘Would list at $300M’

Justice Arthur Engoron’s ruling raised eyebrows by valuing the former president’s Mar-a-Lago estate at $18 million when comparable lots nearby ask much more.

nypost.com

From NBC News

Market price and residential property appraisal for the purposes of taxes are two different things. Your property is almost always worth more than what your county's CAMA software says it's worth. Having worked on that side of things for 7 years it feels like they undervalue typically to avoid appeals That said, the property is neither $18-20 mil and it's probably not $420-600 mil either, both seem like a stretch. The true value is probably closer to something in the middle. For reference, Trump bought the property 38 years ago for $12 mil, so it seems unlikely it's only increased in value by $6-8 in the last 40 years.

Mar-a-Lago is worth $282M MORE than the $18M valuation, realtor says

Donald Trump 's stunning Mar-a-Lago estate is worth $282million more than the $18million valuation it was given by Manhattan judge who held ex president liable for fraud, a Palm Beach realtor said.

www.dailymail.co.uk

 

[TorontoGold]

You have to wonder if the judge has a handle on things. There's no way Mar a Lago is only worth $18M-$20M.

Exclusive | Real estate insiders bewildered by judge’s $18M valuation of Trump’s Mar-a-Lago: ‘Would list at $300M’

Justice Arthur Engoron’s ruling raised eyebrows by valuing the former president’s Mar-a-Lago estate at $18 million when comparable lots nearby ask much more.

nypost.com

From NBC News

Why wouldn't the judge?

In the filing it shows many easements that Trump signed so that he would have a lower tax base. He signed an easement so that the property would only be used as a social club. He signed another one with the National Trust for Historic Preservation. These were not accounted for in his Statements of Financial Condition......which is complete malpractice and probably why his accounting firm dropped him.

Most property valuations are done with the property tax assessment as the jump-off point before they get into the FMV comps and CGU's of the property. The easements give any valuator a tricky time because not many CBV's are going to sign off on something on the basis of their client being able to sway the court to change the law.

This whole thing furthers the incredible incompetence that Trump has demonstrated. You can't go through all these hoops to say "oh this property isn't that great....charge us less for property taxes" and then turn around and say the FMV is $1.5B. His incredible ego and need to acquire as much debt as possible means that he will always need to have aggressive valuations on his properties, but he can't fathom paying the necessary property taxes so he gets cooked.

 

[TorontoGold]

All this to say - Of course Trump should be confident in his ability to sway the County to drop the easements, he's Teflon Don for a reason. I'm sure the renewal period will be coming up and someone on the county board will get a tidy sum and the easements will be dropped.

You just can't file statements to regulators saying "I will put pressure on the government to drop this". Typically the IRS/Feds don't like being told you can go over their head.

 

[Irish#1]

Why wouldn't the judge?

In the filing it shows many easements that Trump signed so that he would have a lower tax base. He signed an easement so that the property would only be used as a social club. He signed another one with the National Trust for Historic Preservation. These were not accounted for in his Statements of Financial Condition......which is complete malpractice and probably why his accounting firm dropped him.

Most property valuations are done with the property tax assessment as the jump-off point before they get into the FMV comps and CGU's of the property. The easements give any valuator a tricky time because not many CBV's are going to sign off on something on the basis of their client being able to sway the court to change the law.

This whole thing furthers the incredible incompetence that Trump has demonstrated. You can't go through all these hoops to say "oh this property isn't that great....charge us less for property taxes" and then turn around and say the FMV is $1.5B. His incredible ego and need to acquire as much debt as possible means that he will always need to have aggressive valuations on his properties, but he can't fathom paying the necessary property taxes so he gets cooked.

I may be out of touch, but I would think given the profile of the case, he would order his own?

 

[RDU Irish]

Are the TDSers here really claiming the massive banks got duped b/c they took some loan applicant at their word with no due diligence of their own? Any fucking moron who has ever taken a 1st, 2nd or 3rd mortgage knows damn well whatever you think counts for diddly squat - banks do their own appraisals and will demand documentation. I have never seen a bank ordered appraisal that was anywhere close to market value for any property I have ever refinanced, always on the nose for a new purchase though. I'm sure it is just like the Eddie Murphy skit for $100M and up borrowers though.

Besides - who was harmed by him borrowing money and paying it back with interest? Love the timing on top of China wire transfers uncovered using Biden's home address.

 

[Cackalacky2.0]

This is a very detailed video on the evaluations.

 

[TorontoGold]

Are the TDSers here really claiming the massive banks got duped b/c they took some loan applicant at their word with no due diligence of their own? Any fucking moron who has ever taken a 1st, 2nd or 3rd mortgage knows damn well whatever you think counts for diddly squat - banks do their own appraisals and will demand documentation. I have never seen a bank ordered appraisal that was anywhere close to market value for any property I have ever refinanced, always on the nose for a new purchase though. I'm sure it is just like the Eddie Murphy skit for $100M and up borrowers though.

Besides - who was harmed by him borrowing money and paying it back with interest? Love the timing on top of China wire transfers uncovered using Biden's home address.

Not multiple banks, you mean Deutsche Bank? The very upstanding bank known for it's strong commitment to regulatory controls lmao.

You'd be massively surprised to find out that banks will lend to high profile people and bend their internal covenants all the time. There's a reason that banking agreements are a lot friendlier for wealthy people than joe blow. You don't think that.....maybe.....banks are in the business of making money......so by taking on a high profile client who has the financial acuity of an actual orangutang you can secure your loans against these properties and publicly embarrass him if he doesn't pay up.

I mean, bank fraud is a thing. No shot you pivot to crack head hunter as if it's even somewhat comparable lmao. But yeah if Hunter violated FARA have him hung whatever no one is going to lose sleep over him like you are for daddy trump lmao.

 

[TorontoGold]

This is a very detailed video on the evaluations.

His own accountants said that they didn't even audit the statements of financial condition. So they weren't held to the same legal standards as if they provided any level of assurance. They had to take Trump's word, and I am 100% certain that for any significant estimates that deviated from standard accounting principles (ie using braindead discount rates to value a property) they would have received a letter of management representation in which Trump or someone with signing authority would have approved that basically says "yep all these judgements were made by management".

I still think that accounting firm should be shot into the sun because you can't seriously just issue those statements knowing that your mentally unwell client is showing it to financers as if it's rock solid.

This really would have been something nice to see in 2015 or any year after since it's probably in the public's best interest to know who holds the debt and what it's secured against. I know it's not for water color paintings of a crack pipe, but imagine if people knew he was committing bank fraud? All the very principled conservatives would be given an easy out to change leadership without MSNBC converting everyone to being a Trump supporter.

 

[Cackalacky2.0]

His own accountants said that they didn't even audit the statements of financial condition. So they weren't held to the same legal standards as if they provided any level of assurance. They had to take Trump's word, and I am 100% certain that for any significant estimates that deviated from standard accounting principles (ie using braindead discount rates to value a property) they would have received a letter of management representation in which Trump or someone with signing authority would have approved that basically says "yep all these judgements were made by management".

I still think that accounting firm should be shot into the sun because you can't seriously just issue those statements knowing that your mentally unwell client is showing it to financers as if it's rock solid.

This really would have been something nice to see in 2015 or any year after since it's probably in the public's best interest to know who holds the debt and what it's secured against. I know it's not for water color paintings of a crack pipe, but imagine if people knew he was committing bank fraud? All the very principled conservatives would be given an easy out to change leadership without MSNBC converting everyone to being a Trump supporter.

It’s amazing to me people are defending this behavior or at least tacitly approving it.

 

[TorontoGold]

It’s amazing to me people are defending this behavior or at least tacitly approving it.

I mean, it's pretty easy to see why - lib AG, lib state, and on it's face the valuation seems insanely low, oh and all the usual grifters are pulling up Zillow ads to tell the masses that it's an AG out for blood.

He did this to himself, if he was really this amazing business person he would have kept his fucking mouth shut and been happy that he got someone from the county to signoff on the valuation of the property to be so low. He could save himself millions in taxes by gifting the property to his kids and in exchange receive shares in the new holdco to which he could receive dividends of the profits. This way he doesn't have estate tax charged on his realized gains of the property when he dies. But, of course ol'Donny only thinks about screwing as many people as possible so to save a few bucks on property taxes he exposed himself to bank fraud charges and in doing so will probably try to remove the easements to get his properties revalued and costing his kids millions in unnecessary taxes.

Just sheer incompetence and it's mind numbing to think that people see this guy as someone who's "business orientated" when he's just a corrupt moron who got fired by his accountants lmao.

 

[Cackalacky2.0]

I mean, it's pretty easy to see why - lib AG, lib state, and on it's face the valuation seems insanely low, oh and all the usual grifters are pulling up Zillow ads to tell the masses that it's an AG out for blood.

He did this to himself, if he was really this amazing business person he would have kept his fucking mouth shut and been happy that he got someone from the county to signoff on the valuation of the property to be so low. He could save himself millions in taxes by gifting the property to his kids and in exchange receive shares in the new holdco to which he could receive dividends of the profits. This way he doesn't have estate tax charged on his realized gains of the property when he dies. But, of course ol'Donny only thinks about screwing as many people as possible so to save a few bucks on property taxes he exposed himself to bank fraud charges and in doing so will probably try to remove the easements to get his properties revalued and costing his kids millions in unnecessary taxes.

Just sheer incompetence and it's mind numbing to think that people see this guy as someone who's "business orientated" when he's just a corrupt moron who got fired by his accountants lmao.

I mean Eric and Trump are both on social media right now claiming the MAL is worth $1.8 billion. Thats the inherent dishonesty here and their MAGA morns are lapping it up. With Florida's 1% property tax that means they would be required to pay $180million in taxes. The adjacent homeowners with no restriction and no easements who can freely sell their property unencumbered are paying the full tax burden. Again, Eric Trump and Jr and anyone else posting zillo listings are being completely dishonest here and they know it. So a $40million dollar home next door paid $4mil in taxes. The MAL tax bill was $500k. In addition to the deed restrictions they agreed to, they challenged the ruling of the property assessor to lower the assed value even further so they paid even less in taxes. No one is making this up. They did it to themselves and have benefitted. I believe Trump is listed as a property manager at MAL so he can actually live there since its restricted as a business and cannot function as a residence.

 

[ulukinatme]

I touched on this previously, but a lot of people online are confusing tax appraised value and market value. They're very different numbers. I don't pretend to understand how the Florida CAP rules and the SCH homestead stuff factor in as those can be kinda screwy, I dealt mostly with Colorado and Missouri when I was on the rest estate tax side of things. I also don't buy that the property is worth a billion.

 

[Cackalacky2.0]

I touched on this previously, but a lot of people online are confusing tax appraised value and market value. They're very different numbers. I don't pretend to understand how the Florida CAP rules and the SCH homestead stuff factor in as those can be kinda screwy, I dealt mostly with Colorado and Missouri when I was on the rest estate tax side of things. I also don't buy that the property is worth a billion.

Even at the most unconservative valuation of MAL i have seen...$300 million is the highest. Trump and his sons are claiming its worth $1.8 billion and they would USE that on their SFCs..... that is the fraud and what they are being held to account for The judge did not establish the valuations for the properties just so we are clear.

But similarly.....just like how people are "confusing" the adjacent unencumbered home value/taxes and MAL property worth/taxes? The real issue that no one is talking about in all this is the actual fraud that was committed by the Trump's as part of a long term well documented and quite clear fraudulent scam.

NY ruling on Trump business fraud

NY Supreme Court

www.documentcloud.org

This is the order showing why the judge ruled the way he did. They clearly violated the specific fraud law in NY by repeatedly and consistently using fraudulent valuations to conduct business and the defense provided to the judge on behalf of TrumpOrg were wholly without merit or legal basis....shocking (page 20)

He claimed a unit he resided in in Trump tower was 30,000 sf but was actually 11,000 sf resulting in an overvaluation of this property but hundreds of millions of dollars. He claims the calculations for "square footage" is subjective....lmao. Maybe due to weird shapes and layouts one could expect 10-20% discrepancies but not 200%. The rest in on pages 21 and after. Feel free to read it. They made intentionally incorrect SFCs even after being informed they were inaccurate. Not only that but Trump's depositions showed that there was systmic fraud and business malpractice because of his "worthless clause" (LMAO) and the fact no one ever reviewed the fraudulent SFCs even though it was celar they knew they were fraudulent. That was all the burden there was required for this law to be tried.

The footnotes are incredible reading.

 

[ulukinatme]

Yeah, insurance fraud, that's a horse of a different color. I don't have time to read it right now at work, but if he lied about dimensions on an insurance form that does sound like some fraud.

 

[Cackalacky2.0]

Yeah, insurance fraud, that's a horse of a different color. I don't have time to read it right now at work, but if he lied about dimensions on an insurance form that does sound like some fraud.

I'd recommend reading it. Quite interesting and it pretty much shuts down any claims of a biased judge or prosecutor or any conspiracy against the Trump. Pretty clear cut and this was something we heard about from Michael Cohen back during what.... 2017?

 

[jprue24]

 

[RDU Irish]

LOL - you guys got him now! Defend the honor of massive banks! Poor DoosheaBank - if they only had some way of knowing Trump was a boisterous ass with a history of overstating his real estate holdings.

Can we get a moment of silence for champion of industry Diane Feinstein? That is what a real real estate mogul looks like. Why borrow from DB when you can grift for free? I'm sure there will be a massive estate tax levy on her holdings since any estate planning is immoral and wrong and she is pure as the driven snow.

 

[GATTACA!]

LOL - you guys got him now! Defend the honor of massive banks! Poor DoosheaBank - if they only had some way of knowing Trump was a boisterous ass with a history of overstating his real estate holdings.

Can we get a moment of silence for champion of industry Diane Feinstein? That is what a real real estate mogul looks like. Why borrow from DB when you can grift for free? I'm sure there will be a massive estate tax levy on her holdings since any estate planning is immoral and wrong and she is pure as the driven snow.

Seems like a good excuse to be allowed to commit fraud. I’m gonna try that. “You guys know I’m full of shit? Wtf??”

 

[Cackalacky2.0]

Seems like a good excuse to be allowed to commit fraud. I’m gonna try that. “You guys know I’m full of shit? Wtf??”

The funny thing about American libertarians is essentially everything becomes the wild west and no one is accountable to anyone ever because that philosophy in American politics boils down to this:

 

[jprue24]

The funny thing about American libertarians is essentially everything becomes the wild west and no one is accountable to anyone ever because that philosophy in American politics boils down to this:

They want a utopian style of fantasy government.

 

[TorontoGold]

The funny thing about American libertarians is essentially everything becomes the wild west and no one is accountable to anyone ever because that philosophy in American politics boils down to this:

No no no! No taxes! BUT BUT BUT big manly strong borders and private police! That sounds like a utopia to me. War lords ruling the lands

 

[Cackalacky2.0]

 

[Cackalacky2.0]

I’m asking for the CPAs in here to respond as I think this would be egregiously unethical (maybe criminal) to operate as a CFO for supposed billion dollar corp and the person who prepared taxes, made payments, moved money around etc…without this knowledge but I’d like some outside info: