Trump Presidency

[Cackalacky2.0]

 

[ulukinatme]

I'm still waiting on confirmation he had nuclear secrets. So far no one has been able to reputably confirm those, it's just been anonymous sources at WaPo and everyone else piggybacking off that story.

 

[Cackalacky2.0]

I'm still waiting on confirmation he had nuclear secrets. So far no one has been able to reputably confirm those, it's just been anonymous sources at WaPo and everyone else piggybacking off that story.

It doesn’t matter really from a criminality point. He took hundreds of document that hast TS or classified stamps. There is a chain of custody on all those documents and he stole them. Yea stole. Let’s not gloss over the fact that Reality Winter went straight to jail for one classified document. Trump had hundreds and he knew what he was doing.

 

[ulukinatme]

It doesn’t matter really from a criminality point. He took hundreds of document that hast TS or classified stamps. There is a chain of custody on all those documents and he stole them. Yea stole. Let’s not gloss over the fact that Reality Winter went straight to jail for one classified document. Trump had hundreds and he knew what he was doing.

The President does turn over legal custody of documents to the Archives, but he still retains control over them as they're from his Presidency. He can designate certain documents available for public consumption, and he can also restrict access to certain documents for up to 12 years. It's a little different than Reality Winner who took classified documents she never had control over and mailed them to a news outlet.

 

[Cackalacky2.0]

The President does turn over legal custody of documents to the Archives, but he still retains control over them as they're from his Presidency. He can designate certain documents available for public consumption, and he can also restrict access to certain documents for up to 12 years. It's a little different than Reality Winner who took classified documents she never had control over and mailed them to a news outlet.

Sorry man this wrong. He is not allowed to take anything with him. No one can take classified documents under any circumstances. There are literal laws against it. President or not. Any document. Any scrap of paper generated by his office has to go to the Archives. Classified documents are supposed to be returned. Not absconded with. He did exactly what Winter did.

 

[TorontoGold]

Is there any precedent of presidents taking items similar to this? Did GWB and Barry take anything?

 

[Cackalacky2.0]

Per the Presidential Records act:

The Presidential Records Act (PRA) of 1978, 44 U.S.C. ß2201-2209, governs the official records of Presidents and Vice Presidents that were created or received after January 20, 1981 (i.e., beginning with the Reagan Administration). The PRA changed the legal ownership of the official records of the President from private to public, and established a new statutory structure under which Presidents, and subsequently NARA, must manage the records of their Administrations. The PRA was amended in 2014, which established several new provisions.

Specifically, the PRA:

• Establishes public ownership of all Presidential records and defines the term Presidential records.
• Requires that Vice-Presidential records be treated in the same way as Presidential records.
• Places the responsibility for the custody and management of incumbent Presidential records with the President.
• Requires that the President and his staff take all practical steps to file personal records separately from Presidential records.
• Establishes that Presidential records automatically transfer into the legal custody of the Archivist as soon as the President leaves office.

Classified and top secret documents were never the presidents or any president. It’s a crime to take them and to allow unauthorized people to handle them. This means Trump stole the American peoples documents when he left office and stole classified top secret documents that wer never his.

 

[ulukinatme]

Sorry man this wrong. He is not allowed to take anything with him. No one can take classified documents under any circumstances. There are literal laws against it. President or not. Any document. Any scrap of paper generated by his office has to go to the Archives. Classified documents are supposed to be returned. Not absconded with. He did exactly what Winter did.

No, he didn't do exactly what Winter did. Winter took classified information and literally leaked it to the press. Trump took documents that he was supposed to turn over to the Archives and let them sit and gather dust while locked away. There's clearly a difference, even if they're both wrong on different levels. Again, the former President retains control over his own Presidential records, the Archives just take legal custody of them. He makes the call if the documents can be released to the public, or he has the power to restrict access to them for up to 12 years.

 

[Cackalacky2.0]

Is there any precedent of presidents taking items similar to this? Did GWB and Barry take anything?

No. You can’t. Not since 1981 and the PRA was implemented.

Also Melanie’s friend Stephanie just posted this



Pallets. Unsecured.

 

[Cackalacky2.0]

No, he didn't do exactly what Winter did. Winter took classified information and literally leaked it to the press. Trump took documents that he was supposed to turn over to the Archives and let them sit and gather dust while locked away. There's clearly a difference, even if they're both wrong on different levels. Again, the former President retains control over his own Presidential records, the Archives just take legal custody of them. He makes the call if the documents can be released to the public, or he has the power to restrict access to them for up to 12 years.

Brooooo he can’t take ANYTHING. ANYTHING when leaves office. Nothing. You even say the NARA retains Legal custody! Legal. 😂

No one under any circumstance can take TS classified docs not even the president. Lol.

 

[ulukinatme]

Brooooo he can’t take ANYTHING. ANYTHING.

Where did I say he could take anything? I acknowledge he was supposed to turn them over, but again...bit of a different circumstance than Winter just giving classified information to the press. They were documents from Trump's own presidency and they were locked away. Yes, he's supposed to turn custody of them over to the Archives, but he still retains control over the documents because they're from his administration. He literally makes the call what is fit for public consumption, and he can pull access if he chooses.

I don't know what you're expecting is going to happen after all this. My guess is Trump gets hit with a fine at most or some other slap on the wrist because that's what usually happens. Are you expecting jail time? The problem is there's not really much precedent for this sort of thing.

 

[Cackalacky2.0]

Where did I say he could take anything? I acknowledge he was supposed to turn them over, but again...bit of a different circumstance than Winter just giving classified information to the press. They were documents from Trump's own presidency and they were locked away. Yes, he's supposed to turn custody of them over to the Archives, but he still retains control over the documents because they're from his administration. He literally makes the call what is fit for public consumption, and he can pull access if he chooses.

I don't know what you're expecting is going to happen after all this. My guess is Trump gets hit with a fine at most or some other slap on the wrist because that's what usually happens. Are you expecting jail time? The problem is there's not really much precedent for this sort of thing.

He can’t keep them. No matter what. Eventually his love letters from Kim Jong in will be in his library but he doesn’t own them. The public does. Also none of this pertains to classified documents he took. That is criminal. That is what Winter did.

I’m expecting nothing. It’s abhorrent what this man does. There is no bottom.

 

[ab2cmiller]

Cack is right about the documents.

Ulikinatme is correct that there is a difference in that Winner leaked a protected document to the press.

So Trump’s possession is definitely problematic, would be a hundred times worse if he leaked info in his possession to the press or foreign entities.

 

[ulukinatme]

I’m expecting nothing. It’s abhorrent what this man does. There is no bottom.

Or you could come to a more reasonable conclusion and see that not every Trump transgression is as damning as the media makes it out to be. That's probably why he's avoided any strong punishments to date. Well, that, and the fact that most elites rarely get hit with anymore than than monetary penalties.

 

[Cackalacky2.0]

Cack is right about the documents.

Ulikinatme is correct that there is a difference in that Winner leaked a protected document to the press.

So Trump’s possession is definitely problematic, would be a hundred times worse if he leaked info in his possession to the press or foreign entities.

Since 43 classified folders were inventoried by FBI to be empty during the MAL search how does that make you fee?

 

[ab2cmiller]

Since 43 classified folders were inventoried by FBI to be empty during the MAL search how does that make you fee?

That I want to know where these documents are. Certainly concerned he passed those documents to someone that he shouldn’t have. Certainly believe Trump is capable of about anything

 

[Cackalacky2.0]

Or you could come to a more reasonable conclusion and see that not every Trump transgression is as damning as the media makes it out to be. That's probably why he's avoided any strong punishments to date.

Disagree. He escapes two impeachments simply because GOP controlled Senate. Barr shut down Mueller and made him finish. He hasn’t been punished because he has people handling his issues. Simple.

 

[Cackalacky2.0]

That I want to know where these documents are. Certainly concerned he passed those documents to someone that he shouldn’t have. Certainly believe Trump is capable of about anything

Most people should fee this way. Very troubling. FTR I don’t think the DOJ makes a distinction of mishandling TS classified docs (ie Winter). Leaking isn’t really different to letting unsuthorized person(s) unknown from viewing or using.

 

[ulukinatme]

Disagree. He escapes two impeachments simply because GOP controlled Senate. Barr shut down Mueller and made him finish. He hasn’t been punished because he has people handling his issues. Simple.

So you think Mueller would have found something if he had another 2 years to investigate?
The Democrats knew the partisan impeachments weren't going anywhere, but they wasted a lot of tax payer money with them anyway in hopes of deterring a 2nd term for Trump.

 

[Cackalacky2.0]

So you think Mueller would have found something if he had another 2 years to investigate?
The Democrats knew the partisan impeachments weren't going anywhere, but they wasted a lot of tax payer money with them anyway in hopes of deterring a 2nd term for Trump.

So nothing should have been done because the outcome was already known? Cool got it. Maybe my lawyers can use that next time I need it. Totally worth it to me to even get a glimpse of the unethical (minimum) and criminal ( obstruction) things he and his admin were up to. Many people such as myself saw that as the right thing to do and the American public should be aware of what they were doing. Oversight and all that. I never viewed that as Dems trying to keep him from running. But the pure partisanship of how it all went down was predictable.

Mueller was asked during his testimony if he found things Trump could be charged with after he leaves office. mueller answered yes. The time to charge him for the Mueller stuff has expired.m

What he did to his ambassador and to Zelensky was unconscionable. Disgusting. Unbecoming of any president. It was extortion for political dirt.

 

[Bishop2b5]

 

[SeekNDestroy]

View attachment 3051608

Traitor

 

[ulukinatme]

So nothing should have been done because the outcome was already known? Cool got it. Maybe my lawyers can use that next time I need it. Totally worth it to me to even get a glimpse of the unethical (minimum) and criminal ( obstruction) things he and his admin were up to. Many people such as myself saw that as the right thing to do and the American public should be aware of what they were doing. Oversight and all that. I never viewed that as Dems trying to keep him from running. But the pure partisanship of how it all went down was predictable.

Mueller was asked during his testimony if he found things Trump could be charged with after he leaves office. mueller answered yes. The time to charge him for the Mueller stuff has expired.m

What he did to his ambassador and to Zelensky was unconscionable. Disgusting. Unbecoming of any president. It was extortion for political dirt.

Why else would they bring articles of impeachment against Trump if they knew they never had the votes to convict? It's all posturing for votes at the end of the day.

Right, a President should never do something so dishonorable for political dirt. Obama's administration would never continue spying on a campaign after they were told the basis for their FISA application was bogus, the investigation conducted by agents with an axe to grind against a particular candidate.

More willful blindness by the media on spying by Obama administration

A new document shows what lots of news outlets discredited.

thehill.com

 

[chisea03]

Disagree. He escapes two impeachments simply because GOP controlled Senate. Barr shut down Mueller and made him finish. He hasn’t been punished because he has people handling his issues. Simple.

 

[Irish#1]

So nothing should have been done because the outcome was already known? Cool got it. Maybe my lawyers can use that next time I need it. Totally worth it to me to even get a glimpse of the unethical (minimum) and criminal ( obstruction) things he and his admin were up to. Many people such as myself saw that as the right thing to do and the American public should be aware of what they were doing. Oversight and all that. I never viewed that as Dems trying to keep him from running. But the pure partisanship of how it all went down was predictable.

Mueller was asked during his testimony if he found things Trump could be charged with after he leaves office. mueller answered yes. The time to charge him for the Mueller stuff has expired.m

What he did to his ambassador and to Zelensky was unconscionable. Disgusting. Unbecoming of any president. It was extortion for political dirt.

So you think Mueller would have found something if he had another 2 years to investigate?
The Democrats knew the partisan impeachments weren't going anywhere, but they wasted a lot of tax payer money with them anyway in hopes of deterring a 2nd term for Trump.

Yet they went through with it, got the expected results then acted shocked when he wasn’t convicted. Wasted time and money as pretty much everything that came out was already known.

Trump will be dead and gone and we’ll still be reading how they are trying to convict him.

 

[Cackalacky2.0]

 

[NDMatt91]

Hot take: Democrats and the outlets that are more favorable to the Democratic Party (NYT, CNN, MSNBC, Meidas Touch, Lincoln Project, NPR, ABC, NBC, Atlantic, CBS, etc.) don’t want anything to happen to him. They want Trump to be the 2024 GOP nominee because they know he’ll lose. They want him to take out DeSantis in the primary because they know DeSantis will likely win, particularly against Biden. The DeSantis-Biden debates will be more of a bloodbath than the Obama-McCain debates.

 

[chisea03]

Hot take: Democrats and the outlets that are more favorable to the Democratic Party (NYT, CNN, MSNBC, Meidas Touch, Lincoln Project, NPR, ABC, NBC, Atlantic, CBS, etc.) don’t want anything to happen to him. They want Trump to be the 2024 GOP nominee because they know he’ll lose. They want him to take out DeSantis in the primary because they know DeSantis will likely win, particularly against Biden. The DeSantis-Biden debates will be more of a bloodbath than the Obama-McCain debates.

Biden might not run.

 

[Cackalacky2.0]

 

[NDMatt91]

It's absolutely pathetic that a guy who lost an election is out holding rallies. If I lost to a guy who is nearly 80 years old and is clearly on the cognitive decline, I don't think I'd be able to show my face in public. Imagine back in 1994 if HW Bush was going all over the country holding rallies after he had lost. We'd all be saying that he should be institutionalized.