Trump Presidency Round 2

[Bishop2b5]

I'm talking about healthcare specifically relating to being transgender.

Well yes, I'm aware of that.

And before the conversation devolves I want to be clear we're not talking about how it's being paid for, I'm specifically talking about access to it

But how certain types of elective healthcare is paid for is part of the question of access.

 

[ColoradoIrish]

Well yes, I'm aware of that.


But how certain types of elective healthcare is paid for is part of the question of access.

So here's the biggest disconnect. You view it as elective healthcare, and trans people like myself don't.

What are your views on other elective healthcare? What about ED drugs? That's elective healthcare and the federal government spends multiples more on that than trans healthcare

 

[RDU Irish]

I’m not paying for your surgery. Throw my dick enhancement surgery on there too so I can get to 6 inch girth.

Discretionary surgeries should not be covered by health insurance. I also don't like regulating what adults to to their body whether it is an addadiktamee or euthanasia or IVF. Also think international adoption should have to put up a $1M bond for health insurance and disability.

If someone wants to run around pretending to be something they are not- have at it on your own dime weirdo.

 

[RDU Irish]

So here's the biggest disconnect. You view it as elective healthcare, and trans people like myself don't.

What are your views on other elective healthcare? What about ED drugs? That's elective healthcare and the federal government spends multiples more on that than trans healthcare

ED drugs should not be covered by healthcare insurance. 100% bullshit. Don't cover hearing aids but cover ED drugs - this sums up our nation's priorities surrounding degeneracy over decency. That doesn't mean you can't buy them though - you tolerant types love to conflate things like that.

 

[ab2cmiller]

Discretionary surgeries should not be covered by health insurance. I also don't like regulating what adults to to their body whether it is an addadiktamee or euthanasia or IVF. Also think international adoption should have to put up a $1M bond for health insurance and disability.

If someone wants to run around pretending to be something they are not- have at it on your own dime weirdo.

This seems like a reasonable response that facilitates discussion.

 

[ColoradoIrish]

ED drugs should not be covered by healthcare insurance. 100% bullshit. Don't cover hearing aids but cover ED drugs - this sums up our nation's priorities surrounding degeneracy over decency. That doesn't mean you can't buy them though - you tolerant types love to conflate things like that.

I'm not conflating anything. I'm making a point about how shitty healthcare access is in general in this country. I agree it needs to be fully overhauled.

I'm simply making a point about spending because the consensus I'm hearing from people hear is they just don't want to pay for it.

 

[RDU Irish]

This seems like a reasonable response that facilitates discussion.

Medical costs surrounding IVF are astronomical and the predictable issues created such as premature birth of triplets border on malpractice, IMO. I think the issue of septuplets and whatnot have substantially subsided as fewer embryos are implanted now than in the past. If you can shell out If you can pay $20k -$50k to manufacture a pregnancy in a lab - you can put up a bond for the NICU costs for early delivery of twins.

I'm not conflating anything. I'm making a point about how shitty healthcare access is in general in this country. I agree it needs to be fully overhauled.

I'm simply making a point about spending because the consensus I'm hearing from people hear is they just don't want to pay for it.

Correct - I pay a lot and use very little. I don't want to pay for my neighbor's boob job regardless of if my neighbor is a recent female divorcee' or dude pretending to be a chick (or that dude that got paid to get one). Support their freedom to make dumb decisions and my freedom to mock them for it.

 

[ColoradoIrish]

Medical costs surrounding IVF are astronomical and the predictable issues created such as premature birth of triplets border on malpractice, IMO. I think the issue of septuplets and whatnot have substantially subsided as fewer embryos are implanted now than in the past. If you can shell out If you can pay $20k -$50k to manufacture a pregnancy in a lab - you can put up a bond for the NICU costs for early delivery of twins.



Correct - I pay a lot and use very little. I don't want to pay for my neighbor's boob job regardless of if my neighbor is a recent female divorcee' or dude pretending to be a chick (or that dude that got paid to get one). Support their freedom to make dumb decisions and my freedom to mock them for it.

Then let's fix how our healthcare and insurance works. Lets find common ground and fix the issue. A great way to start resolving the solution is fixing billing and coding(which Trump said he would do and I've been on record saying I'm looking forward to seeing how it's implemented) and not allowing insurance companies to make massive profits

 

[ab2cmiller]

 

[ab2cmiller]

 

[ColoradoIrish]

Hopefully this isn't like the Epstein files release

 

[BuaConstrictor]

Hopefully this isn't like the Epstein files release

Most of the JFK files have already been released anyways.

 

[RDU Irish]

Then let's fix how our healthcare and insurance works. Lets find common ground and fix the issue. A great way to start resolving the solution is fixing billing and coding(which Trump said he would do and I've been on record saying I'm looking forward to seeing how it's implemented) and not allowing insurance companies to make massive profits

Says the person lamenting their insurance needs to cover their elective trans treatments or else we are all nazis.

 

[ColoradoIrish]

Says the person lamenting their insurance needs to cover their elective trans treatments or else we are all nazis.

Dude I've never once said anything of the sort or advocated for that

 

[BuaConstrictor]

Who is going to tell him?

 

[Bishop2b5]

So here's the biggest disconnect. You view it as elective healthcare, and trans people like myself don't.

What are your views on other elective healthcare? What about ED drugs? That's elective healthcare and the federal government spends multiples more on that than trans healthcare

Yes, what you call trans healthcare - gender reassignment surgery and related procedures and hormone therapy - I absolutely see as elective, as do most people. I understand why you view it differently, but the evidence as well as my medical opinion and my background in biology, psychology, and genetics is that it is a psychological/psychiatric issue and not a physical one, thus absolutely elective and medically unnecessary. We're treating the wrong issue by affirming a delusion instead of treating the underlying issues causing it, just as we'd be mistreating a person with anorexia by performing liposuction or gastric bypass surgery to help them become skinnier instead of treating the underlying mental health/body image issues that cause their anorexia.

I'm not sure what medical care you're claiming to not have access to or why. Is trans surgery or hormone treatment illegal for you or otherwise not available, or is it available, but insurance won't pay for it?

As for ED drugs, that's a medical issue causing a problem with a normal bodily function, so sure, I'm for treating it as such and insurance paying for it. I would be against paying for someone's breast augmentation or tattoos or nose job in most cases, as those are elective. However, as with 99% of things, there can be exceptions. A woman who loses her breasts to cancer and wants breast augmentation surgery and nipple tattoos to restore a semblance of a normal bust is something almost everyone supports and few would complain about insurance paying for. Same for a kid with a congenital deformity or person injured and needing rhinoplasty to fix those issues.

 

[Bishop2b5]

Hopefully this isn't like the Epstein files release

That one was about as lame as Geraldo opening up Capone's hidden vault.

 

[ColoradoIrish]

Yes, what you call trans healthcare - gender reassignment surgery and related procedures and hormone therapy - I absolutely see as elective, as do most people. I understand why you view it differently, but the evidence as well as my medical opinion and my background in biology, psychology, and genetics is that it is a psychological/psychiatric issue and not a physical one, thus absolutely elective and medically unnecessary. We're treating the wrong issue by affirming a delusion instead of treating the underlying issues causing it, just as we'd be mistreating a person with anorexia by performing liposuction or gastric bypass surgery to help them become skinnier instead of treating the underlying mental health/body image issues that cause their anorexia.

I'm not sure what medical care you're claiming to not have access to or why. Is trans surgery or hormone treatment illegal for you or otherwise not available, or is it available, but insurance won't pay for it?

As for ED drugs, that's a medical issue causing a problem with a normal bodily function, so sure, I'm for treating it as such and insurance paying for it. I would be against paying for someone's breast augmentation or tattoos or nose job in most cases, as those are elective. However, as with 99% of things, there can be exceptions. A woman who loses her breasts to cancer and wants breast augmentation surgery and nipple tattoos to restore a semblance of a normal bust is something almost everyone supports and few would complain about insurance paying for. Same for a kid with a congenital deformity or person injured and needing rhinoplasty to fix those issues.

Well we agree to disagree and most experts in this field agree with me and not you.

And ED drugs are definitely elective. You don't have to have erections and sex to be healthy

 

[ColoradoIrish]

Yes, what you call trans healthcare - gender reassignment surgery and related procedures and hormone therapy - I absolutely see as elective, as do most people. I understand why you view it differently, but the evidence as well as my medical opinion and my background in biology, psychology, and genetics is that it is a psychological/psychiatric issue and not a physical one, thus absolutely elective and medically unnecessary. We're treating the wrong issue by affirming a delusion instead of treating the underlying issues causing it, just as we'd be mistreating a person with anorexia by performing liposuction or gastric bypass surgery to help them become skinnier instead of treating the underlying mental health/body image issues that cause their anorexia.

I'm not sure what medical care you're claiming to not have access to or why. Is trans surgery or hormone treatment illegal for you or otherwise not available, or is it available, but insurance won't pay for it?

As for ED drugs, that's a medical issue causing a problem with a normal bodily function, so sure, I'm for treating it as such and insurance paying for it. I would be against paying for someone's breast augmentation or tattoos or nose job in most cases, as those are elective. However, as with 99% of things, there can be exceptions. A woman who loses her breasts to cancer and wants breast augmentation surgery and nipple tattoos to restore a semblance of a normal bust is something almost everyone supports and few would complain about insurance paying for. Same for a kid with a congenital deformity or person injured and needing rhinoplasty to fix those issues.

And in response to trans healthcare and if it's available for me. The answer is yes it currently is. There are concerns from the leadership and legal team at the hospital I work at whether it will be available depending on the legality of Trump's executive orders.

 

[BuaConstrictor]

And in response to trans healthcare and if it's available for me. The answer is yes it currently is. There are concerns from the leadership and legal team at the hospital I work at whether it will be available depending on the legality of Trump's executive orders.

Don't forget all the states exploring outlawing it for adults!

The stories we have shared to answer this question at least twice now.

 

[ColoradoIrish]

Don't forget all the states exploring outlawing it for adults!

The stories we have shared to answer this question at least twice now.

His executive order where he wants to remove federal funding for any organization that provides gender affirming care would absolutely gut access and would leave people to resort to get drugs off the streets. It's what my hospital is concerned about

 

[NDVirginia19]

Take it or leave it, but this is a pretty well explained take on the admin’s approach to not following the injunction on TDA deportations. You might disagree with the explanation and the sets of rules, but I don’t think it is as willy nilly as previously supposed.

 

[ab2cmiller]

Take it or leave it, but this is a pretty well explained take on the admin’s approach to not following the injunction on TDA deportations. You might disagree with the explanation and the sets of rules, but I don’t think it is as willy nilly as previously supposed.

I did see it earlier and it does provide perspective.

With that said, it truly was a brutal interview. Truly painful to listen to both of them go back and forth.

 

[BuaConstrictor]

Take it or leave it, but this is a pretty well explained take on the admin’s approach to not following the injunction on TDA deportations. You might disagree with the explanation and the sets of rules, but I don’t think it is as willy nilly as previously supposed.

It's not well reasoned at all to anyone with even a base-level understanding of that act. In summation, what the fuck are you talking about?

That act that Miller cites can't be used unless we are at war with the "enemy" country.

What Miller MIGHT have been trying to cite is the Alien Friends Act....which was only valid for two years and that two years ran out in the year 1800. ..and even the Alien Friends Act had a due process aspect to it.

In summation.. Miller..and you...are morons.

 

[ColoradoIrish]

Steven Miller absolutely sucks, is a habitual liar. I wouldn't believe a single word that ever leaves his mouth

 

[BuaConstrictor]

Steven Miller absolutely sucks, is a habitual liar. I wouldn't believe a single word that ever leaves his mouth

He's an absolute fucking moron.

Trump's claim is made even more idiotic because he didn't even deport these people to their country of origin.

 

[Bishop2b5]

Well we agree to disagree and most experts in this field agree with me and not you.

And ED drugs are definitely elective. You don't have to have erections and sex to be healthy

I don't believe you're actually correct about most experts in the healthcare field agreeing with your view. I think it's very common for us to spout the party line because nobody wants to get cancelled or deal with having to sit through endless HR sessions about tolerance and being more PC and sensitive. However, my personal experience with doctors, nurses, psychologists, and etc. is that a large majority believe it to be a psychological/psychiatric issue and a delusion, with no genuine medical or scientific validity.

I'm not anti-trans any more than I'm anti-cancer patients, or anti-diabetic patients, or anti-depressives. I'm anti treating the symptoms and encouraging delusional behavior instead of treating the underlying cause. It does no good and is usually quite harmful to encourage a patient to believe in their delusions or to continue harmful behavior or telling them that the very obviously harmful effects of their behavior are completely fine and normal instead of telling them the truth and trying to get them to treat the causes of their problems. I don't treat alcoholics by telling them their drinking and attendant health issues are perfectly acceptable and normal. I don't just treat their injuries and sickness and tell myself I'm affirming their life choices. I do all I can to find out why they drink and encourage them to get help in order to stop. Same with a schizophrenic, e.g. I don't play along and pretend to hear the voices they hear or affirm the delusions they have. I do all I can to get them psychiatric help, into therapy, and on the right meds.

I have nothing against a person who believes he or she is a man or woman in the wrong body. I'm sure it's a miserable, unhappy feeling in many ways. I've treated such people and have a cousin who is trans, so I've seen the situation up close. However, there is absolutely no credible evidence to suggest that it's real and anything more than a mental health issue. Gender reassignment surgery, hormone treatment, and related procedures are treating the symptoms, not the disorder. I feel for you and others in this boat, but I would strongly encourage you to ask yourself if there's anything in your brain structure, your brain activity, your genes, or your physiology that suggest in any meaningful way that you're a woman. Transitioning won't make you an actual woman, and is very unlikely to make you happy or "cure what ails ya" in the long run. Instead, I'd strongly encourage you to seek therapy... not just to affirm you're a woman, but instead to try and understand why you want to be one and what underlying issues caused this.

I genuinely wish you the best and will gladly talk with you, listen to you, or help in any way I can. I would just encourage you to explore treating underlying causes instead of the resultant symptoms.

 

[BuaConstrictor]

Steven Miller absolutely sucks, is a habitual liar. I wouldn't believe a single word that ever leaves his mouth

He's a human skin tag.

 

[NDVirginia19]

That act that Miller cites can't be used unless we are at war with the "enemy" country.

No it doesn’t. That’s not what the law says.

“That whenever there shall be a declared war between the United States and any foreign nation or government, or any invasion or predatory incursion shall be perpetrated, attempted, or threatened against the territory of the United States, by any foreign nation or government”

 

[BuaConstrictor]

Steven Miller absolutely sucks, is a habitual liar. I wouldn't believe a single word that ever leaves his mouth

Love how Miller tries to buttress his bullshit by pointing out the act was written by the founding generation.
1. You know who also never actually used the act?........those same people.
2. That generation also wrote the Articles of Confederation.so....