The Measuring Stick

[zelezo vlk]

Brendan Clark/Drew Pyne measuring stick games are probably just GaTech/Cuse/Wake? One of them is probably leaving after the yer right?

Clark or Pyne would be idiots to leave after this year. They don't lose eligibility and they'd have a chance to start next year as Book won't be back and Buchner is their only competition.

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[Irish YJ]

Brendan Clark/Drew Pyne measuring stick games are probably just GaTech/Cuse/Wake? One of them is probably leaving after the yer right?

If Book decides to come back (not sure why he wouldn't), I'd definitely expect at least one to leave, maybe both. Clark seems like he could fit in to a MAC like team easily, or maybe compete at a smaller P5. Not sure what to think about Pyne, but he seems to have the lowest expectations tagged to him.

 

[NorthDakota]

We need to talk .... you should sit down for this

Dont do this now pls

 

[Irish YJ]

Clark or Pyne would be idiots to leave after this year. They don't lose eligibility and they'd have a chance to start next year as Book won't be back and Buchner is their only competition.

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Why are you so sure Book doesn't come back? He's not getting picked in the draft. Doubt he transfers. Only way I see him not coming back is simply if BK tells him to move on, which I doubt happens. Perhaps he decides to retire, but I kinda doubt it.

 

[IrishSteelhead]

Lol this is the kind of honesty we need around here!

What we need around here is more videos!!!!

It was no coincidence the years you made videos, were also some of the best years in the BK era!!!!!


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[Sea Turtle]

Pyne has the same 5.9 ranking as Buchner. He had offers from Alabama, Auburn and LSU. There is no reason he can't succeed here other than Kelly.

 

[Irish YJ]

Pyne has the same 5.9 ranking as Buchner. He had offers from Alabama, Auburn and LSU. There is no reason he can't succeed here other than Kelly.

Composite wise, Pyne is a 92 and ranked 225th nationally, vs Buchner who is 97 and 56th nationally. Looking at their measurables, stats, level of comp, and film, they are very different to me.

 

[NDMIA]

QB - Pyne and Buchner has ND trending in the right direction with highly ranked QB recruits. If they want to be a big time program and get over the hump they need some big time QB’s in the program and that’s not once every 3 years or 4 but every single cycle and maybe taking a depth guy from time to time. In 2022 I hope they’re landing another big time recruit like Wimsatt or Angelli (their plan A’s).

RB - Chris Tyree and Kyren Williams. Sprinkle in some 4 stars and you’ll have yourself a backfield. Too bad they went all in on Will Shipley and lost but hopefully they turn it around in 2022. Absolutely no excuse running behind the OLine to have a roster loaded with 3* and positional transfer kids.

WR - This is what happens when you whiff on certain cycles. The 2017 class is coming back to bite ND. 7/12 scholarship guys are 4*+ recruits. Gotta hope the youngsters improve fast. The 2021 class will certainly help add in some more talent.

TE - One of the most talented recruiting depth charts in the country. And it shows on the field.

OL - See TE. When you are in the top 5 in recruited talent you might end up being one of the more talented lines in the country. Not always but talent makes talent.

DL - This is frustrating because it feels like ND could and should be doing better. At DT they look to be on a roll of some serious talent with big time prospects like Jayson Ademilola, Jacob Lacey, Howard Cross, Rylie Mills and Gabriel Rubio. At DE for the 2021 roster they’ve got a projected 10 scholarship guys and 3 4* recruits. That’s crazy (Abiara’s a 3* on 247 and Rivals for those looking at his composite 4*). I know they’ve got loads of depth in numbers and fresh guys all the time but they need some stars along the DE spot and Foskey looks to be a beast but they need some better recruiting which I’m finding crazy to say considering Elston’s DLine prowess.

LB - This is one of the hardest positions to recruit big time 4*’s to because there are fewer of them and ND hunts for some specialized dudes that maybe tweener safeties. As far as I’m concerned I think ND has some playoff level depth and talent at LBer. They’ve got so many big time athletes there and I trust Lea to develop and produce talented LBers.

DB - Recruit more and better DB’s. Every year they seem to go into a season with 11-14 DB’s and I hope they increase that number in the future because it can get dangerously thin fast in the defensive backfield. The last two recruiting cycles ND’s brought in 7 3* DB’s. That won’t get it done. Period. I love me some Ryan Barnes and I think The Opening and a Season would’ve changed his ranking drastically but still ND needs to increase the talent level in the defensive backfield desperately because Kyle Hamilton won’t always be around to save the day

Honestly, when it comes down to it, ND’s very close in their gap to those top teams but they’re missing a few game-changing talents (mainly at QB). I think another issue is the ability to stack position groups. ND’s can get talent at a position but I care more about how they do when they’ve got 16 DLinemen returning and all they need is 2-3 guys. Can they stack classes and build incredible depth and talent or can they say, we knocked it out of the park on the last cycle at this group so let’s go focus on this other group. I’m hoping their consistency increases for talent.

 

[GUknights75]

Is Book the worst starter of the Kelly era? I think he might be.

He's just terrible. At least Tommy seemed to maximize his low floor. He didn't have the athleticism or arm you need to be a great college QB, but he rarely made big time mistakes and could read a defense like a motherfucker.

Book just seems incompetent in every aspect. He can't throw deep AT ALL. He panics and runs around after one read all the time. He fucked up the read option on one 3rd down so badly in the second half I was screaming at my TV. He's just not even close to what you need to be able to compete seriously with the top 10.

Until we stop recruiting munchkin top 50 QB prospects and land a legit, NFL blue chip 6'3+ 5 star stud we're never going to compete. We're never going to recruit well enough to be able to cover our glaring hole at QB. I love the optimism looking forward to Buchner, but I'm not holding my breath.

I'm not defending Books performance today but I think you're being a little harsh here. I mean in 2018 he came in for Wimbush and the offense exploded. I'll admit he has regressed since then but at least he can still hit a dump off pass 9/10 times compared to Wimbush. You can't call someone with a 20-3 career record as a starter can't really be considered the worst. His ability to run and low turnover rate makes him average at worst but he is capable of putting up some gems.

 

[Sea Turtle]

Composite wise, Pyne is a 92 and ranked 225th nationally, vs Buchner who is 97 and 56th nationally. Looking at their measurables, stats, level of comp, and film, they are very different to me.

I only pay attention to Rivals for better or for worse. I think Buchner is 82 and Pyne was 119 nationally. I agree that Buchner is physically bigger.
I guess my biggest point is if ND, Alabama, LSU and Auburn are offering you, you are a fine prospect.

 

[ColinKSU]

Notre Dame is what is is. They’re a very good team that’s maybe two tiers below the very top. For instance, if Clemson is clearly the top tier, then a team like Georgia or Alabama is below that and I can’t argue that ND’s on that level either.

The difference, for ND at least, is the QB position. Book is not going to win the really important games he needs to beat to get ND to the next tier. He’s proven that against Clemson, Georgia, Michigan and Miami. The moment is consistently too big for him. I can’t blame him for playing, though, because it’s not his fault that Kelly can’t develop anyone to replace him.

I’ve learned to just enjoy the ride. They’re not beating Clemson, just like they weren’t going to beat Clemson in the CFP. They don’t have the talent under center to do that. I’m just enjoying the wins as they happen, though.

 

[Irish YJ]

I only pay attention to Rivals for better or for worse. I think Buchner is 82 and Pyne was 119 nationally. I agree that Buchner is physically bigger.
I guess my biggest point is if ND, Alabama, LSU and Auburn are offering you, you are a fine prospect.

I'd have to revisit as I don't remember specifics, but I was pretty impressed with Buchner's film from last year, and pretty meh about Pynes. Pynes SR stats pale biggly to Buchner's stats last year. Not saying stats are everything, but just never felt any wow factor about Pyne. I'm sort of done with short QBs too, to be honest lol.

 

[TorontoGold]

If Book decides to come back (not sure why he wouldn't), I'd definitely expect at least one to leave, maybe both. Clark seems like he could fit in to a MAC like team easily, or maybe compete at a smaller P5. Not sure what to think about Pyne, but he seems to have the lowest expectations tagged to him.

IMO if ND makes it to the playoffs and loses maybe Book will come back, the whole "unfinished business" "we were so close" attitude. But if ND comes up short I don't see him coming back. I'm sure there's been some thought about this from both Kelly and Book, but will be interesting to see what the beat guys think. At the end of the day, I don't know jack and who knows, it's like going to an average all you can eat sushi....it's not bad you're just full and want to go home.

 

[zelezo vlk]

Why are you so sure Book doesn't come back? He's not getting picked in the draft. Doubt he transfers. Only way I see him not coming back is simply if BK tells him to move on, which I doubt happens. Perhaps he decides to retire, but I kinda doubt it.

Because sites have been saying that Book is gone and Lax said so too within the past week or two.

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[Irish YJ]

Notre Dame is what is is. They’re a very good team that’s maybe two tiers below the very top. For instance, if Clemson is clearly the top tier, then a team like Georgia or Alabama is below that and I can’t argue that ND’s on that level either.

The difference, for ND at least, is the QB position. Book is not going to win the really important games he needs to beat to get ND to the next tier. He’s proven that against Clemson, Georgia, Michigan and Miami. The moment is consistently too big for him. I can’t blame him for playing, though, because it’s not his fault that Kelly can’t develop anyone to replace him.

I’ve learned to just enjoy the ride. They’re not beating Clemson, just like they weren’t going to beat Clemson in the CFP. They don’t have the talent under center to do that. I’m just enjoying the wins as they happen, though.

Just to focus in on your second paragraph.

Vs UGA last year, you could easily point to our lack of running game who couldn't even get to 50 yards, and had less than 25 RB yards. BK basically abandoned the run (we only had like 10 RB carries all game IIRC) and UGA's DBs were just plain good. Meanwhile, Swift had ~100, and we were still right there at the end (and led at half). And that was on the road.

The whole team quit vs scUM. We had like 35 RB yards there too. Michigan's D was in the backfield all game, and our D didn't do diddly.

 

[Irish YJ]

Because sites have been saying that Book is gone and Lax said so too within the past week or two.

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Didn't see Lax's post. What did he say? I'd trust him over the sites lol.

 

[zelezo vlk]

Didn't see Lax's post. What did he say? I'd trust him over the sites lol.

Can't remember and it's always a fluid situation in South Bend, but Lax did express that opinion recently.

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[Irish YJ]

Can't remember and it's always a fluid situation in South Bend, but Lax did express that opinion recently.

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Thanks.

Purely my opinion, I just don't see any reason for him personally not to come back. I think it would have to be a situation where BK says we're going with Clark to start next year, and just can't see BK doing that. And definitely can't see BK making the advanced decision to go with Buchner that early. Maybe behind the scenes Clark is closer to Book than thought?