The Hit To The Head.

[arrowryan]

Not so much in college football, but mainly in the NFL the officials call almost every hard hit a hit to the head or a hit on a defenseless receiver. It happens a good 2-3 times every Sunday and every time I shake my head in disbelief because that is not football. It happens all the time to my Steelers (mainly Ryan Clark) and all we can do is blame good ol' Roger Goodell.

I can't stand this, I know the players hate it. The players are now aiming for the knees because they don't want to get flagged or even fined for a possible "blow to the head". The game is WAY too fast for players to decide where they want to tackle someone. It needs to change. I have always thought that if the players were afraid to get huyrt then they shouldn't play the game, it's as simple as that.

Don't even get me started on the excessive protection on the quarterbacks

 

[Downinthebend]

Not so much in college football, but mainly in the NFL the officials call almost every hard hit a hit to the head or a hit on a defenseless receiver. It happens a good 2-3 times every Sunday and every time I shake my head in disbelief because that is not football. It happens all the time to my Steelers (mainly Ryan Clark) and all we can do is blame good ol' Roger Goodell.

I can't stand this, I know the players hate it. The players are now aiming for the knees because they don't want to get flagged or even fined for a possible "blow to the head". The game is WAY too fast for players to decide where they want to tackle someone. It needs to change. I have always thought that if the players were afraid to get huyrt then they shouldn't play the game, it's as simple as that.

Don't even get me started on the excessive protection on the quarterbacks

I don't think quarterbacks have enough protection.

 

[woolybug25]

I understand the Defenseless Receiver rule having it's flaws. But knowing now what we do about concussions and the longterm ramifications, how could you possibly want to NFL to get rid of the rules regarding helmet to helmet collisions?

The NFL not only has the moral obligation to put safeguards in, but also a responsibility to protect themselves from future litigation.

I agree that they have gone a little overboard with the defenseless receiver calls, but thats where that ends in my opinion.

 

[arrowryan]

I understand the Defenseless Receiver rule having it's flaws. But knowing now what we do about concussions and the longterm ramifications, how could you possibly want to NFL to get rid of the rules regarding helmet to helmet collisions?

The NFL not only has the moral obligation to put safeguards in, but also a responsibility to protect themselves from future litigation.

I agree that they have gone a little overboard with the defenseless receiver calls, but thats where that ends in my opinion.

Throwing a yellow flag won't get rid a concussions. They still happen every week.

Perfect example, Steelers vs. Giants. Victor Cruz goes over the middle (bad mistake), Ryan Clark made him pay for going across the middle and absolutely cleans his clock. it was a clean hit, helmet to chest. All of a sudden, here comes the flag for a helmet to helmet hit. Cruz leaves the game not for a concussion, but for bruised ribs. You don't get bruised ribs by getting hit in the head.

 

[arrowryan]

Here is a Ryan Clark hit on Willis McGahee in the 2009 AFC Championship. This was a totally clean hit according to the rule book just 3 years ago. If this happened today, he would've been penalized and probably suspended. Football was so much better a couple years ago

Willis McGahee and Ryan Clark BIG Hit - Baltimore Ravens vs Pittsburgh Steelers (AFC Championship) - YouTube

 

[KPENN]

Throwing a yellow flag won't get rid a concussions. They still happen every week.

Perfect example, Steelers vs. Giants. Victor Cruz goes over the middle (bad mistake), Ryan Clark made him pay for going across the middle and absolutely cleans his clock. it was a clean hit, helmet to chest. All of a sudden, here comes the flag for a helmet to helmet hit. Cruz leaves the game not for a concussion, but for bruised ribs. You don't get bruised ribs by getting hit in the head.

Cause on a bang, bang play a ref knows he has bruised ribs?

And honestly it is frustrating to see a great hit like Chancellor's last night on Davis get penalized but I do understand where they are coming from on it.

 

[woolybug25]

Throwing a yellow flag won't get rid a concussions. They still happen every week.

Perfect example, Steelers vs. Giants. Victor Cruz goes over the middle (bad mistake), Ryan Clark made him pay for going across the middle and absolutely cleans his clock. it was a clean hit, helmet to chest. All of a sudden, here comes the flag for a helmet to helmet hit. Cruz leaves the game not for a concussion, but for bruised ribs. You don't get bruised ribs by getting hit in the head.

What exactly is that example suppose to prove, exactly? That refs make bad calls sometimes? Wasn't that called "defenseless receiver" not "helmet to helmet" though? I'm pretty sure it was. Which according to the rule, was the right call. I told you that I agree with you that the defenseless receiver call is a bit much, but I don't get your logic regarding why true "helmet to helmet" collisions shouldn't be called if there was indeed a helmet to helmet collision.

 

[arrowryan]

That's another thing I don't understand, the defenseless receiver thing. So if the wide receiver is going up for the ball or reaching out for the ball, the defender is supposed to be like "well wait a minute guys, let's wait for him to catch the ball then we can all tackle him". No, that's not how it works. Like I said, if they are afraid to get hurt then don't play.

I'm not trying to pick a fight with you Wooly, I'm just ranting on something that makes the NFL look really weak.

And over half the time they call a "helmet to helmet" the helmet never touches the players body.

 

[Rhode Irish]

I think if you lead into contact with your helmet, whether it's to the other player's head or not, the player should be ejected from the game and suspended for an additional game. All of this "it's not football" stuff is for stupid people who also happen to be horrible human beings who don't care about the safety of the men entertaining them. I don't care whether the players like it or not. The players aren't doctors. Most of them wouldn't have even graduated from high school if they weren't good at football.

Nothing aggravates me more as a sports fan than this ignorant and idiotic garbage from neanderthal football fans, 87.3% of whom are Steeler, Raider or Raven fans.

 

[Rhode Irish]

Also, if you didn't have a defenseless receiver rule it would eliminate the passing game entirely because coaches would just teach to kill the receiver as he's catching the ball, which is much easier to do than play real defense, and you would never be able to complete a pass, eventually a couple players would die, and football cease to exist.

 

[johnnykillz]

Things change.

People change.

 

[arrowryan]

Well one, I'm not a horrible human being. That's an idiotic thing to say for never even meeting me. Secondly, I do care for the players safety. Throwing a flag hasn't stopped anything and it never will. Science is what will fix this problem. They come out with new helmet designs every year it seems like. They will get it right, more padding / thicker helmets should fix this problem. But I'm not a doctor/scientists so what do I know

 

[Pa Golden Tate Fan]

Arrowryan is absloutely correct. The NFL is only calling it a flag because the NFL is concerned with lawsuits against the NFL for concussions. If NFL did nothing then it would set itself up for bankruptcy. Goodell is a hypocrite and needs to go.

 

[arrowryan]

Arrowryan is absloutely correct. The NFL is only calling it a flag because the NFL is concerned with lawsuits against the NFL for concussions. If NFL did nothing then it would set itself up for bankruptcy. Goodell is a hypocrite and needs to go.

He is a huge hypocrite. He wants to "protect" the players but wants to extend the regular season to 18 games? Uhhhh that makes zero sense. He fined James Harrison $80,000 for 2 helmet to helmet hits but then the NFL puts a picture of those hits for sale on nflshop.com.

Stay classy Goodell

 

[NDPhilly]

This hit by Ed Reed was penalized and he'll likely be fined for it. I hate the Giants as much as the next person but this is total BS

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/pzZMOm_picU" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

 

[woolybug25]

We're talking about two subjects:

1) head to head contact
2) defenseless receiver

I think the NFL has a responsibility to try to limit and protect players from head to head hits. If you think that this isn't an actual problem than go talk to Dave Duerson... oh wait...

The defenseless player rule is silly and not really helping with head to head contact. I agree with this, but not that they should simply not try to put rules in place to protect head to head contact.

These two subjects are separate from one another.

 

[Bishop2b5]

A LOT of the hits in decades past would get flagged now and result in suspensions, yet not nearly as many players from decades ago ended up with longterm brain trauma, even though helmets are much better now and the rules are more restrictive. Part of the problem is the athletes are bigger, faster, and stronger now than they were then, and the forces they generate with hits are much greater. Getting hit in 1960 by a 210 lb linebacker who ran a 4.9 isn't the same as getting hit today by one who runs a 4.5 and weighs 250. It's like a Prius at 60 versus a semi at 90.

 

[Rocky2820]

I think if you lead into contact with your helmet, whether it's to the other player's head or not, the player should be ejected from the game and suspended for an additional game. All of this "it's not football" stuff is for stupid people who also happen to be horrible human beings who don't care about the safety of the men entertaining them. I don't care whether the players like it or not. The players aren't doctors. Most of them wouldn't have even graduated from high school if they weren't good at football.

Nothing aggravates me more as a sports fan than this ignorant and idiotic garbage from neanderthal football fans, 87.3% of whom are Steeler, Raider or Raven fans.

RhodeIrish, I actually agree with your overall premise. Yes, even as a Steelers fan.

However, to suggest that most NFL players wouldn't have even graduated from high school is ridiculous.

And to suggest that people who feel differently about the safety issue are "horrible human beings" is even more absurd.

I do not typically call people out, but this one is absurd on so many levels. And again, this is coming from someone who actually agrees with your overall stance.

 

[arrowryan]

RhodeIrish, I actually agree with your overall premise. Yes, even as a Steelers fan.

However, to suggest that most NFL players wouldn't have even graduated from high school is ridiculous.

And to suggest that people who feel differently about the safety issue are "horrible human beings" is even more absurd.

I do not typically call people out, but this one is absurd on so many levels. And again, this is coming from someone who actually agrees with your overall stance.

Yeah his statement about NFL players not graduating high school was a head scratcher. So I guess the NFL players that graduated from Notre Dame weren't smart enough to graduate high school? They only graduated because they are good at football?

 

[Rhode Irish]

I said most of them wouldn't have graduated from high school, not all of them. Anyways, you guys are focusing on the parts of what I said that was clearly hyperbole. The real point is that it would be irresponsible not try to protect the players using the rulebook. Throwing a flag or fining a guy isn't going to undo any damage a player suffers from a head shot, but that isn't the goal. The goal is to condition players to eliminate the kill shot through negative reinforcement. There are obviously players in the league who are too stupid and too ignorant to change, but over the long haul it will work.

As far as Goodell, the man is a grossly incompetent buffoon and nobody likes him less than I do. The sudden increased focus on player safety is a transparent attempt to minimize the league's culpability for the post-career medical issues of the players. Doesn't mean it isn't the right thing to do, though.

 

[NYMIKE6]

You can make a million rules for "helmet to helmet" hits. The truth is they will always exist. Good coaches teach their defensive players to tackle, head up, wrap and drive your face mask through your opponents numbers (High cloth). A split second or a couple inches can separate a text book tackle from helmet to helmet. It is a part of the game.
It's a violent sport, which means players need to be violent on the field. They know the risks, which is why they get paid huge money. Quite or retire if you don't want to get injured.

 

[woolybug25]

You can make a million rules for "helmet to helmet" hits. The truth is they will always exist. Good coaches teach their defensive players to tackle, head up, wrap and drive your face mask through your opponents numbers (High cloth). A split second or a couple inches can separate a text book tackle from helmet to helmet. It is a part of the game.
It's a violent sport, which means players need to be violent on the field. They know the risks, which is why they get paid huge money. Quite or retire if you don't want to get injured.

Or kill yourself years later when you realize that you have CTE. Or worse, beat or kill your wife and kids.

Yeah, but penalizing players for the hits that cause CTE is just part of the game.

Then the NFL should just not do nothing in the rules to protect players from the inherent risks involved with a violent game.

 

[NYMIKE6]

Or kill yourself years later when you realize that you have CTE. Or worse, beat or kill your wife and kids.

Yeah, but penalizing players for the hits that cause CTE is just part of the game.

Then the NFL should just not do nothing in the rules to protect players from the inherent risks involved with a violent game.

So then the obvious solution is to just put flags on these guys?

There are risks in a lot of jobs... Electricians get electrocuted, Miners get crushed, Police officers get shot... they know the risks, but still continue to work... What's your point? Like i said they know the risks... Retire or quit... but lets keep the game the way it should be played... They are after all modern day gladiators!!!!

 

[Rhode Irish]

The sport is changing. Coaches that refuse to adapt will be dinosaurs. If they are teaching their players techniques that are dangerous and illegal, they aren't good coaches. Football can still be physical without the players trying to mame one another. It's hard for me to understand the mentality of people who can be confronted with the serious health risks presented by repeated head injuries and not understand the need to change in order to reduce those risks. In my opinion, if you understand how serious the problem is and you still resist change because you think watching a less savage sport will be less entertaining, you are a bad person. I don't see any way you could dispute that.

 

[woolybug25]

So then the obvious solution is to just put flags on these guys?

There are risks in a lot of jobs... Electricians get electrocuted, Miners get crushed, Police officers get shot... they know the risks, but still continue to work... What's your point? Like i said they know the risks... Retire or quit... but lets keep the game the way it should be played... They are after all modern day gladiators!!!!

Electricians have protocal, mines have regulation, police have to follow protocol. That is my freaking point. You guys want the NFL to quit trying to put rules into place so you can have your selfish gladiator fantasies of "better play". What about these people's families, their loved ones or their future health? I realize that some of you don't see them as real people and that they should just go out and be "gladiators" for you, but they are real people and concussions (and the resulting CTE) is a serious problem in the game. If you don't believe that it is a problem, then you are uneducated on the issue. Plain and simple.

I agree that there are inherent risks in the game. But head to head contact can clearly be penalized, and in turn, get the players to adjust their behavior for the sake of not hurting their team. This will make the game safer.

 

[NYMIKE6]

Electricians have protocal, mines have regulation, police have to follow protocol. That is my freaking point. You guys want the NFL to quit trying to put rules into place so you can have your selfish gladiator fantasies of "better play". What about these people's families, their loved ones or their future health? I realize that some of you don't see them as real people and that they should just go out and be "gladiators" for you, but they are real people and concussions (and the resulting CTE) is a serious problem in the game. If you don't believe that it is a problem, then you are uneducated on the issue. Plain and simple.

I agree that there are inherent risks in the game. But head to head contact can clearly be penalized, and in turn, get the players to adjust their behavior for the sake of not hurting their team. This will make the game safer.

Well i will simply say this my friend, They should be an adult and make a rational and self conscious decision weighing the risks of their career choice... If they do not want to risk their health, well i guess they should use that degree they received from college???
You're trying to make excuses for their decisions... Ridiculous... no one holds a gun to their head makes them play football... it's their choice... You call us uneducated, these players should be educated on the risks not us...

On top of that you can not coach players with sub 4.4 speed to stop on a dime and redirect when trying to deliver a blow.

 

[Downinthebend]

This issue should be negotiated between the NFL and the NFL PA.

 

[GEORGIA DOMER]

Just throwing it out there but are qbs to blame for some of these hits? Years ago qbs would get ripped for getting a receiver killed? Also it is a pass first game now. With pass happy come big hits?

 

[Rhode Irish]

Well i will simply say this my friend, They should be an adult and make a rational and self conscious decision weighing the risks of their career choice... If they do not want to risk their health, well i guess they should use that degree they received from college???
You're trying to make excuses for their decisions... Ridiculous... no one holds a gun to their head makes them play football... it's their choice... You call us uneducated, these players should be educated on the risks not us...

On top of that you can not coach players with sub 4.4 speed to stop on a dime and redirect when trying to deliver a blow.

This is honestly the most infuriated I've ever been with another poster on this board. Football is a sport, not a death match. I don't want the athletes that play football in order to entertain me to have to risk their lives (and those of their spouses and kids) in order to participate. We aren't savages and this isn't Ancient Rome. I want to watch football, and I want world class athletes to be able to play it like they do the other sports. I'm going to go now; I don't need to subject myself to this kind of stupidity tonight of all nights.

 

[NYMIKE6]

Electricians have protocal, mines have regulation, police have to follow protocol. That is my freaking point. You guys want the NFL to quit trying to put rules into place so you can have your selfish gladiator fantasies of "better play". What about these people's families, their loved ones or their future health? I realize that some of you don't see them as real people and that they should just go out and be "gladiators" for you, but they are real people and concussions (and the resulting CTE) is a serious problem in the game. If you don't believe that it is a problem, then you are uneducated on the issue. Plain and simple.

I agree that there are inherent risks in the game. But head to head contact can clearly be penalized, and in turn, get the players to adjust their behavior for the sake of not hurting their team. This will make the game safer.

I almost took offense to that statement, but then i remembered i only have two feelings left and they fight amongst each other....

I know quite a few former NFL players on a personal level.. They are friends of mine and we have this discussion every time we are on the phone... I guess their opinion is irrelevant because they played in a different era.