The First Shot To Power Conferences

[T Town Tommy]

SEC ponders potential move to 'Division IV' if NCAA doesn't provide autonomy - ESPN

I think it is just a matter of time till we see the split occur.

 

[Whiskeyjack]

I agree it's only a matter of time. Will be interesting to see if ND chases the money in Division IV (or whatever the newly autonomous group of power conferences is called), or whether it tries to carve out a smaller group of like-minded institutions that can preserve the traditional values of student-athleticism.

This made me chuckle:

"We're in a squeeze here," Machen said. "There are now six lawsuits that name our conference in them that specifically have to do with the whole cost of attendance and stuff like that. We would like to make changes, but we can't because the NCAA doesn't allow us to. We're really caught between a rock and a hard play. We desperately would like some flexibility."

A simple error in transcription, or does UF President Bernie Machen really not know the proper phrasing of this incredibly common idiom?

 

[Cali_domer]

I agree it's only a matter of time. Will be interesting to see if ND chases the money in Division IV (or whatever the newly autonomous group of power conferences is called), or whether it tries to carve out a smaller group of like-minded institutions that can preserve the traditional values of student-athleticism.

This made me chuckle:



A simple error in transcription, or does UF President Bernie Machen really not know the proper phrasing of this incredibly common idiom?

ND Will not be giving up Big Boy Football. Coach Kelly on some of the proposed changes(Northwestern)

I know it's somewhat of an older issue now, but the young man at Northwestern that was trying to get the union going, did you take the temperature of your team about the issues that he wanted to express with regard to the union? Do you feel like it's something that you need to be concerned about or need to talk to your team about at Notre Dame?

COACH KELLY: I chose not to talk about it with our team. I've talked about it with our staff and certainly our administration and Jack Swarbrick, we've had a conversation about it, because it's real; it would affect, in the national labor relations board finds that private universities that student athletes are workers, it has a substantial impact.

Now, my take is, if it turns out that way, we're going to have a significant advantage over every program in the country, because I don't think we're dropping football any time soon here. So we're going to pay compensation, we're going to pay all those things; I think our scholarship stands by itself, and add that to it, I think we're in a pretty good situation.

I don't think the NCAA is going to allow that to happen. I'm sure as heck Michigan is not going to allow that to happen. I think there's so many hurdles here that I didn't think it was the time or the place to bring it up to our team, because I just think it's‑‑ there's so many hurdles there before it gets to them.

But it was a discussion that I had with our athletic director and our staff, just because if it was brought up by a parent or if it was brought up by somebody, that we were all of the same opinion; and that is, as we stand right now, we believe that the value of a degree from Notre Dame stands by itself and that that should be just compensation for the time that a student athlete gives to Notre Dame.'

 

[T Town Tommy]

I don't really see how five conferences would work with playoffs, etc. I could see a scenerio where ND could try to pull Texas and maybe a few other schools that have serious finaincial stakes and try to form a sixth conference.

I think the NCAA will pasify by giving some concessions, but at some point I think the money will be too much for them to overcome.

 

[Pops Freshenmeyer]

Wake me when the Big Ten voices agreement about forming a "Division IV."

 

[phork]

I don't really see how five conferences would work with playoffs, etc. I could see a scenerio where ND could try to pull Texas and maybe a few other schools that have serious finaincial stakes and try to form a sixth conference.

I think the NCAA will pasify by giving some concessions, but at some point I think the money will be too much for them to overcome.

SEC, PAC, ACC, BIG10, BIG12 and however many more teams needed to get to 64 teams.

4 Regional super conferences.

Top 2 from each make the playoff. 8 Team playoff for the championship.

 

[Rack Em]

SEC, PAC, ACC, BIG10, BIG12 and however many more teams needed to get to 64 teams.

4 Regional super conferences.

Top 2 from each make the playoff. 8 Team playoff for the championship.

Or keep current alignments and just go to a 8 team playoff.

 

[NDWorld247]

Swarbrick addressed this issue in a great interview with the South Bend Tribune a couple weeks ago: Notre Dame AD Swarbrick addresses hot issues - South Bend Tribune: Football

But, now I'm confused...what's the difference between providing autonomy to the Power Five conferences and forming another division? Nothing, right? If given autonomy, the Power Five conferences are going to make decisions that make it impossible for the other FBS conferences to compete, forcing some sort of split within FBS.

I guess I don't understand how autonomy would result in anything other than another division, or larger divisions within FCS, II and III given the realignment that would need to take place at lower levels.

As an aside, calling it "Division IV" is ridiculous given the current division structure.

 

[T Town Tommy]

I think it is the first move for the Major 5 to pull away from the NCAA altogether. The NCAA will try to keep everything under their umbrella, but with the amount of money in CFB, I just think the Power 5 won't be satisfied with the first round of concessions. Emmert has already stated he is against several of the recommendations. I think this is Slive's way of simply saying "either get on board with us or we will break away completely."

The more interesting thing to me is the fact that I have not heard the other conference commisioners come out so strongly on this. Wonder if they too share Slive's opinion of possibly going on without the NCAA involved in CFB?

 

[Rhode Irish]

Pretty candid comments from Kelly. Remarkably candid, I would say. And I'm sure he isn't talking out of turn. Not worried as a ND football fan.

 

[NDWorld247]

I think it is the first move for the Major 5 to pull away from the NCAA altogether. The NCAA will try to keep everything under their umbrella, but with the amount of money in CFB, I just think the Power 5 won't be satisfied with the first round of concessions. Emmert has already stated he is against several of the recommendations. I think this is Slive's way of simply saying "either get on board with us or we will break away completely."

The more interesting thing to me is the fact that I have not heard the other conference commisioners come out so strongly on this. Wonder if they too share Slive's opinion of possibly going on without the NCAA involved in CFB?

I don't think this is accurate though, and that's not what Slive is saying. The NCAA isn't going away and CFB isn't breaking away from it.

From the article you posted:

Moving to Division IV would keep the Power Five under the NCAA umbrella while granting college football's biggest money makers the kind of power to better take care of student-athletes.

Giving autonomy to the Power Five conferences would accomplish the same goal, right? But, what are the consequences of autonomy for the Power Five? My guess is an uneven playing field where the other FBS conferences decide to either create their own division (somewhere between FBS and FCS), or join FCS. So, again, what's the difference? Autonomy will create another division. Not granting autonomy to the Power Five will create another division.

Also, I loved the answer Swarbrick gave to the NCAA question in the interview I posted:

SBT: Again, in our business, a lot of people want to kind of blow up the NCAA. But I haven’t seen a lot of great ideas on how to replace it, reform it, fix it. Do you feel like you have a handle on what you think the vision of the reformed NCAA should be?

Swarbrick: The first important thing to remember is the NCAA is us. It’s a membership association. It drives me crazy when people refer to it as a third party. There’s never been a piece of legislation adopted that didn’t have the support of the member institutions. Most often, some school brought forward the proposal, and then we treat it like it’s an independent agency enforcing rules on us.

It’s not. It’s us.

The first part, in sort of getting to the new NCAA, is to step up to that reality and recognize that our membership association, by and large, is doing what we asked them to. I think the critical issue for the future — and again a conscious decision was made to deal with governance first — but I think the next issue that has to be addressed is: What do we want the NCAA to do? What are the things that we want to be the focus of its efforts?

Do we want it to be our compliance and enforcement arm? They’re not the only way you could do that. You could create third-party entities that do that — college sports version of the Securities and Exchange Commission. I don’t mean it’s a government agency, but something inventive.

What role do we want it to play in championships? I think everybody is very satisfied with the role they play in that. What role do we want them to play in setting initial eligibility standards? Before we start worrying about what a specific legislative proposal is, I think we really have to answer the question about what do we want the core mission of the NCAA to be? What things do we want them to focus their energies on, as a membership?

 

[T Town Tommy]

But I think the autonomy they are seeking is the first step to going it absent of the NCAA. What happens when the NCAA doesn't give in to their requests? I think at that point college football will change completely. Maybe I am wrong but I think that's where we are headed... unless the NCAA realizes M. Emmert is the major problem and move to get rid of him.

To me, this is Slive's way of telling the NCAA to either get on board or get left behind.

 

[Pops Freshenmeyer]

Swarbrick addressed this issue in a great interview with the South Bend Tribune a couple weeks ago: Notre Dame AD Swarbrick addresses hot issues - South Bend Tribune: Football

But, now I'm confused...what's the difference between providing autonomy to the Power Five conferences and forming another division? Nothing, right? If given autonomy, the Power Five conferences are going to make decisions that make it impossible for the other FBS conferences to compete, forcing some sort of split within FBS.

I guess I don't understand how autonomy would result in anything other than another division, or larger divisions within FCS, II and III given the realignment that would need to take place at lower levels.

As an aside, calling it "Division IV" is ridiculous given the current division structure.

If their football programs are not members of the NCAA they will not be able to play FBS and FCS programs. Much the same reason the Yankees and Red Sox remain in MLB, the wealthiest programs need their punching bags. In addition, if a group of schools decide to break off to provide greater levels of benefits to their football players, how do they comply with Title IX as well as the agreed upon scholly limits and other things to participate in non-revenue NCAA sports?

As far as breaking off, what revenue streams do they really have to gain? How will going it alone make them more money?

In order for the Big 5 to break off and go it alone (which is basically a prerequisite for it to even be a break even financial proposition) they need to agree upon rules and uniform enforcement. Do the comments of Delaney give you the impression he thinks that his conference and the SEC are operating under the same rules? Do you think he would trust them in such a partnership where their proportion of influence will be increased? Do you think the B1G would rather be a bigger fish in a smaller pond and let other conferences leave?

The reason for the saber rattling is that current NCAA rules act to suppress the competitive advantages that arise from having more cash. If the upper classes of college football up this ante, it gives them greater distance between their ability to use resources and the middle classes of college football - thus solidifying their position in the pecking order while preserving their ability to continue playing these schools who are operating at an even greater disadvantage than before. They will probably get their way to some extent but leaving the NCAA is an empty threat, IMO.

 

[koonja]

I agree it's only a matter of time. Will be interesting to see if ND chases the money in Division IV (or whatever the newly autonomous group of power conferences is called), or whether it tries to carve out a smaller group of like-minded institutions that can preserve the traditional values of student-athleticism.

This made me chuckle:



A simple error in transcription, or does UF President Bernie Machen really not know the proper phrasing of this incredibly common idiom?

I don't follow any of this conference realignment because considering the cosmic shifts and time it would take, I don't think the speculation is worth the effort.

So my question might be a dumb one.

But why on earth wouldn't ND be in the ACC if this were to happen? I seriously doubt they'll join a sub-par Ivy-style league.

 

[NDWorld247]

But I think the autonomy they are seeking is the first step to going it absent of the NCAA. What happens when the NCAA doesn't give in to their requests? I think at that point college football will change completely. Maybe I am wrong but I think that's where we are headed... unless the NCAA realizes M. Emmert is the major problem and move to get rid of him.

To me, this is Slive's way of telling the NCAA to either get on board or get left behind.

With all due respect, I think you're off base here. Emmert is not the major problem. He's not even really part of the problem. I have very little respect for the guy, but understand that he has almost no power or decision making authority. He is a figurehead, nothing more.

The NCAA is all of its member institutions. It's not a third-party organization that schools need to answer to. They collectively make up the NCAA.

The problem, for the Power Five, is with the decision making process of the NCAA. The Power Five don't have enough power to make decisions that are best for them because they are only 60 or so schools and, I believe, all of the FBS and FCS schools are represented as part of the NCAA decision making process. They are outnumbered and their proposals are not getting approved because they don't benefit the non-Power Five schools.

Breaking away from the NCAA is not the goal. Reforming it is. But that brings me back to my original question, what's the difference between autonomy for the Power Five and another division?

For the record, I have no problem with autonomy or another division. I just don't understand the difference and, as of now, don't think there is one.

 

[T Town Tommy]

With all due respect, I think you're off base here. Emmert is not the major problem. He's not even really part of the problem. I have very little respect for the guy, but understand that he has almost no power or decision making authority. He is a figurehead, nothing more.

The NCAA is all of its member institutions. It's not a third-party organization that schools need to answer to. They collectively make up the NCAA.

The problem, for the Power Five, is with the decision making process of the NCAA. The Power Five don't have enough power to make decisions that are best for them because they are only 60 or so schools and, I believe, all of the FBS and FCS schools are represented as part of the NCAA decision making process. They are outnumbered and their proposals are not getting approved because they don't benefit the non-Power Five schools.

Breaking away from the NCAA is not the goal. Reforming it is. But that brings me back to my original question, what's the difference between autonomy for the Power Five and another division?

For the record, I have no problem with autonomy or another division. I just don't understand the difference and, as of now, don't think there is one.

I can agree with what Pops just posted and think he is probably spot on. But I see the NCAA a lot like state high school associations. While high schools make up the membership, they are bound to the rules set forth by the governing body... yes, composed of member institutions. But to state that Emmert has no authority is the same as saying the state high school commissioner has no authority and that is simply not the case. I know it's a big jump from high school to the NCAA, but a lot of high schools have reverted to private leagues to get away from the oversight of the HS athletic association and/or commisiioners who have a vested interest in keeping things at status quo.

What I believe the Big 5 wants is exactly what you say. But, what happens when they aren't satisfied with the arrangements. If they aren't given the autonomy they seek, I could see them working together to try and go it on their own. The money is there. Yes, it would require a lot of other things to happen but when you are talking billions in revenue it wouldn't take them long to figure it out. Form their own board, with their own interests, and their own revenue streams. It is something that seems far reaching but the same could be said about paying college athletes 20 years ago. I just don't think we can dismiss what Slive said as simply rhetoric either. I could very easily see a Big 5 college football division seperate from the other sports at colleges in the future - with the NCAA having no say so in their business.

And I do agree that Slive's comments aren't that far reaching yet... but then again I think it could be the first step in that direction in the future.

 

[Irish#1]

Pretty candid comments from Kelly. Remarkably candid, I would say. And I'm sure he isn't talking out of turn. Not worried as a ND football fan.

In Jack We Trust.