The boys of summer! (Baseball Thread)

[Irishize]

Ortiz tested positive in 2003. He seems to get a free pass because of likability and his "clutch" moments.

Helton comps to Bagwell and Edgar Martinez. They're both in. I think he goes eventually, and should.

Rolen is a tougher case, but he's right there as far as numbers. No comps other than Ron Santo.

Ortiz’s case has a lot of inconsistencies b/c it was a list compiled by federal investigators that was released anonymously. Afterward, both the MLBPA & MLB came out in defense of Ortiz saying any name on that list didn’t necessarily test positive for PEDs. Manfred said:

On October 2, 2016 at a press conference at Fenway Park, MLB Commissioner Rob Manfred said it was "entirely possible" Ortiz did not test positive during the MLB survey drug testing in 2003. The commissioner stated that the alleged failed test should not harm Ortiz's legacy, and that there were "legitimate scientific questions about whether or not those were truly positives". Manfred added "Those particular tests were inconclusive because "it was hard to distinguish between certain substances that were legal, available over the counter, and not banned under our program."[98] He also said "Ortiz has never been a positive at any point under our program" since MLB began testing in 2004 and that it is unfair for Hall of Fame voters to consider "leaks, rumors, innuendo and non-confirmed positive test results" when assessing a player.[99]

 

[Irishize]

Ortiz tested positive in 2003. He seems to get a free pass because of likability and his "clutch" moments.

Helton comps to Bagwell and Edgar Martinez. They're both in. I think he goes eventually, and should.

Rolen is a tougher case, but he's right there as far as numbers. No comps other than Ron Santo.

At one time (& probably still the case), 3B was the least represented position in the HOF. That makes for a tough standard for any 3B to compete against. I will not dismiss Rolen as his era post-Phillies is one I checked out of for a time.

 

[Rogue219]

Ortiz’s case has a lot of inconsistencies b/c it was a list compiled by federal investigators that was released anonymously. Afterward, both the MLBPA & MLB came out in defense of Ortiz saying any name on that list didn’t necessarily test positive for PEDs. Manfred said:

I am not a steroid moralist. I'd have voted for all those guys to go in if I had a ballot. I'm also not a Manfred guy.

That said, Ortiz fails the eyeball and stats test when it comes to his career arc. It's pretty improbable and while it doesn't mean he used, he is far beyond benefit of the doubt but seems to get a pass compared to some of these other guys who have been cast out. Bonds and A Rod never failed a public drug test either, and that's an argument everyone seems to cling to in these discussions.

This is the greatest back end of his career hitter of all time. He's not an outlier. His numbers are unprecedented when it comes to 500 HR career guys/HOF players. The three names on the list who follow him: Palmeiro, Bonds, and Sosa.

That speaks for itself.

 

[Irish2155]

A lot of folks don’t like Schilling for many reasons but his dominance on the bump is undebateable, post season especially!!!

If Jack Morris is a HofFer then Curt Schilling is a no brained IMO.

In their primes I’d take Schilling in a must win game over Pedro, and that’s saying a lot. I might take Becket when he’s on his game over both but he wasn’t as consistent. . Pedro, as great as he was, was only good for 7 or 8. Give Schilling the ball and he’ll finish what he started.

 

[Irishize]

I am not a steroid moralist. I'd have voted for all those guys to go in if I had a ballot. I'm also not a Manfred guy.

That said, Ortiz fails the eyeball and stats test when it comes to his career arc. It's pretty improbable and while it doesn't mean he used, he is far beyond benefit of the doubt but seems to get a pass compared to some of these other guys who have been cast out. Bonds and A Rod never failed a public drug test either, and that's an argument everyone seems to cling to in these discussions.

This is the greatest back end of his career hitter of all time. He's not an outlier. His numbers are unprecedented when it comes to 500 HR career guys/HOF players. The three names on the list who follow him: Palmeiro, Bonds, and Sosa.

That speaks for itself.

Oh, I agree 100%. I don’t know anyone who is a Manfred guy. Sosa was a light hitting OF before he donned a Cubs uni. He never did anything that stood out w/ the Rangers or ChiSox. Palmeiro seemed to be steady but his power wasn’t apparent early on.

To me Bonds & Clemens are no-brainers.

 

[NorthDakota]

Tell Bonds he can get in if he gives up his records. Hank and Roger deserve to be recognized.

 

[Irishize]

A lot of folks don’t like Schilling for many reasons but his dominance on the bump is undebateable, post season especially!!!

If Jack Morris is a HofFer then Curt Schilling is a no brained IMO.

In their primes I’d take Schilling in a must win game over Pedro, and that’s saying a lot. I might take Becket when he’s on his game over both but he wasn’t as consistent. . Pedro, as great as he was, was only good for 7 or 8. Give Schilling the ball and he’ll finish what he started.

Schilling reminded me of the starters from the 70s & 80s that were just workhorses: Steve Carlton, Phil Niekro, Don Sutton, Gaylord Perry, Bert Blyleven, Luis Tiant, Nolan Ryan, Tommy John, etc. Some got by on finesse & some by power. Schilling was definitely power but he got the job done.

 

[Irish2155]

Schilling reminded me of the starters from the 70s & 80s that were just workhorses: Steve Carlton, Phil Niekro, Don Sutton, Gaylord Perry, Bert Blyleven, Luis Tiant, Nolan Ryan, Tommy John, etc. Some got by on finesse & some by power. Schilling was definitely power but he got the job done.

Schilling reminds me of one of the best big game pitchers ever. Many, many greats...only a select few have dominated pitched their teams to championships and Schilling did it more than once.

 

[Irishize]

Schilling reminds me of one of the best big game pitchers ever. Many, many greats...only a select few have dominated pitched their teams to championships and Schilling did it more than once.

Definitely. He was a money pitcher. That’s a compliment. Once he got established in the Majors (post Baltimore & Houston) as a regular rotation guy, he was a vital cog that helped his team to the World Series for each team.

 

[zelezo vlk]

And the Cardinals get Nolan Arenado, very nice. Only a year after I predicted it

 

[Rack Em]

And the Cardinals get Nolan Arenado, very nice. Only a year after I predicted it

I’m very torn about this trade. Arenado is going on 30, has $199 million left on his contract, and is reportedly getting another year at $15 mil tacked on to the end. That’s a lot of money for someone at that point in the aging curve. 4 years from now they’re going to have a lot of money tied up in Goldy and Arenado. Plus they need to find money to extend Flaherty. That could be a $200 mil contract easily.

But the Cardinals are basically giving up nothing in terms of prospects and are getting $50 mil to offset the contract.

 

[Irish2155]

Got me thinking on an uneventful Saturday...

Who are the best 1/2s ever? Schilling is at least on 2 of the top 10 and probably top 5. Off the top of my head...

- Johnson/Schillig
- Koufax/Drysdale (so I’ve been told)
- Pedro/Schilling (again)

Y’all can fill in the rest. But anyway it’s diced, Schilling was dominate.

 

[zelezo vlk]

I’m very torn about this trade. Arenado is going on 30, has $199 million left on his contract, and is reportedly getting another year at $15 mil tacked on to the end. That’s a lot of money for someone at that point in the aging curve. 4 years from now they’re going to have a lot of money tied up in Goldy and Arenado. Plus they need to find money to extend Flaherty. That could be a $200 mil contract easily.



But the Cardinals are basically giving up nothing in terms of prospects and are getting $50 mil to offset the contract.

I hear that some has been deferred too. I'm happy with the trade.

Sent from my SM-J337U using Tapatalk

 

[Dale]

I’m very torn about this trade. Arenado is going on 30, has $199 million left on his contract, and is reportedly getting another year at $15 mil tacked on to the end. That’s a lot of money for someone at that point in the aging curve. 4 years from now they’re going to have a lot of money tied up in Goldy and Arenado. Plus they need to find money to extend Flaherty. That could be a $200 mil contract easily.

But the Cardinals are basically giving up nothing in terms of prospects and are getting $50 mil to offset the contract.

Eh put it a different way. We’re getting Arenado at the same price as Jays got Springer if the 50 million part is correct. That’s a younger and better player than the best FA available at the same price. The Goldy trade is already made so you can’t waste his years. If you wait till the better 2022 class, god willing baseball is back to normal and you’d be in a bidding war and pay a weaker player more money more then likely or get nothing.

Credit to DeWitt, he gets called cheap at every turn yet as traded for 2 of the biggest deals in MLB (Stanton and Arenado)

 

[Irish2155]

Bauer signing with LA is ridiculous. They’re trying to fork cash like the Yankees and I hope SD takes them down.

In the meantime, Boston needs anyone who can touch 90. All and any applications welcome.

 

[Irishize]

Bauer signing with LA is ridiculous. They’re trying to fork cash like the Yankees and I hope SD takes them down.

In the meantime, Boston needs anyone who can touch 90. All and any applications welcome.

I love it!

Buehler
Kershaw
Urias
Bauer
Gonsolin
Price
May

NL West should be the best race in MLB if it plays out like it seems to on paper. Hate the game, don’t hate the player.

 

[Irish2155]

I love it!

Buehler
Kershaw
Urias
Bauer
Gonsolin
Price
May

NL West should be the best race in MLB if it plays out like it seems to on paper. Hate the game, don’t hate the player.

Go Padres

 

[Irish2155]

I love it!

Buehler
Kershaw
Urias
Bauer
Gonsolin
Price
May

NL West should have the best Wild Card race in MLB if it plays out like it seems to on paper. Hate the game, don’t hate the player.

FIFY. Dodgers are going to make a joke of the league this year.

 

[Irish2155]

I love it!

Buehler
Kershaw
Urias
Bauer
Gonsolin
Price
May

NL West should be the best race in MLB if it plays out like it seems to on paper. Hate the game, don’t hate the player.

When you stack Aces on top of Aces like that we’re getting into the ATL 90s staff. But the above is better

 

[Irishize]

Go Padres

Go Rays

 

[Irishize]

FIFY. Dodgers are going to make a joke of the league this year.

Nothing is guaranteed. Yankees proved in the 80s that throwing money at a roster guarantees nothing. You still have to throw money at the right guys as well as avoid trading away your young future stars in hopes of catching lightning in a bottle. Speaking of Bauer, look at the D’backs. They traded both Max Scherzer & Bauer away for basically nothing. That’s got zero to do with money and everything to do w/ talent evaluation and long-term investment. Some teams spend wisely. Some teams spend like Lotto winners & they’re broke w/in a decade.

 

[Rogue219]

Go Rays

If Cash leaves Snell in, they might win three championships in the city of Tampa, and they don't have an NBA team.

 

[irishff1014]

I heard a few things about the O’s that makes you wonder if they are staying in Baltimore. The lease they have at Camden Yards was up so they signed a new 2 year lease. That just seems odd. But with the 100 million the owners owe the Nationals due to the disaster with the masn network.

 

[Rogue219]

How happy is the White Sox chairman that they traded Fernando Tatis Jr. for James Shields?

And how pissed is he that the Padres gave Tatis that contract when MLB owners are crying they have money constraints?

And how much are the Braves happy they signed Acuna for the deal they did?

 

[irishff1014]

How happy is the White Sox chairman that they traded Fernando Tatis Jr. for James Shields?

And how pissed is he that the Padres gave Tatis that contract when MLB owners are crying they have money constraints?

And how much are the Braves happy they signed Acuna for the deal they did?

Good for the Padres though to lock him up early. The White Sox’s screwed up.

The Braves were early and are getting a steal.

 

[Rogue219]

Good for the Padres though to lock him up early. The White Sox’s screwed up.

The Braves were early and are getting a steal.

James Shields was crap when they got him.

Acuna was a fool to sign that deal.

 

[irishff1014]

James Shields was crap when they got him.

Acuna was a fool to sign that deal.

Acuna is a aggressive player. He very well could have injuried himself and cost himself money.

 

[Rogue219]

Acuna is a aggressive player. He very well could have injuried himself and cost himself money.

Look, I can understand wanting to secure your long term future, but even if I am looking at it from that point of view that deal was steal staggeringly stupid. He's probably never going to make what his actual value is going to be. This isn't football or hockey. The risk of serious injury to non pitchers is pretty low, so however aggressive he might be, he screwed himself out of a lot of money signing the deal he did.

The White Sox gave Eloy Jimenez $43 million dollars before he ever played a day in the Majors and Acuna signed the deal he did? Stupid. Only a GM and owner would look at that and think it was a good idea.

 

[tussin]

We're back boys. Go Yanks.

 

[GowerND11]

Welp... We shall see how the young core does this year for the M's. Need to see progress and growth. Unfortunately, it also means we will see Seager get traded this summer. Though some bullpen and/or rotation help would be massively needed for the expected push in the coming years.