Tesla's Revolutionary Model 3

[BleedBlueGold]

Thanks for all the info!

That's a great price for having your plug installed. Did you need any trenching or box work done to add? Due to the age of my house and design of my yard and driveway, I think the charging you described would force me to have like a 40 foot cable running across my driveway and yard. Frankly, I'm just not going to do that. As far as I can tell, this would be true for a Tesla, or for any other EV's. It's encouraging to know that I may not have to charge everyday though, as that estimated $56 may be brought down $10-$20, at least. Now we're getting somewhere!

Good to know the '22 seems to be comparable with other cars as far as amenities and comfort. As I said, my experience was in a '17 or '18 and I would put it more in line with a '07-'12 run-of-the-mill Accord. The $47k is very much so in line with new cars. I do wonder though (again, I haven't priced it out) what the standard model includes? For instance, I know '22 Infinity Q50's start in the 42-44k range (MSRP), but the more realistic MSRP price is 52-60k.

My driving varies from day to day and week and to week. This is a bit of where the rub comes in. I don't go to an office everyday and don't have a standard commute nor drive. Some days and weeks I'm all over town for work and with the kids. Some days I have 4-6 meetings and appointments and there's a decent amount of forethought that goes into making sure each one is met (as well as factoring in delays for my counterpart). I also need to travel (by car) out of town a couple times a month. On one of them, I do a turn-and-burn that ends up taking about 12 hours (rather than spend the night). An EV is not feasible for this one day. I'd have to add the cost of a rental car in 12 times a year and/or add the cost of a hotel room and the extra time. Also, where I live (like I assume many urban areas these days), my supposed 20-30min one way drive sometimes turns into a 1 hour+ drive due to traffic. In short, due to multiple variables and travel, I need to have a high level of certainty about the duration of my charge and drive time capabilities.

I'm completely open to getting an EV and am even more open to saving money. It's still not going to be feasible, for me, for multiple years to come. I do wonder also how the coronavirus may effect some of the EV revolution on society as well, going forward? Obviously many people are returning to their offices, but some may never return or always do a hybrid method of home/office. I think this may spur the EV improvements along, but I really don't know.

Again, thanks for all your insight. It's good info and I know it took some time for you to compose and post the message.

I was lucky on charger install in that my panel had a free spot and it's conveniently located in the exact spot I park my car (literally within a foot). So my cheap price was entirely based on how short the cable run was. I think my neighbor had to run his from the basement panel up into the garage and his quote was significantly higher. Daily charging is entirely up to your driving needs. I charge to about 80%, which is 240 miles of estimated range each night but that's because I drive anywhere from 120-200 miles per day for work. If I only drove 10, like my wife, I'd charge a lot less (keep in mind Tesla batteries have about 1% drain per day when parked). For the record, my friend has a Model Y and he said his electric bill went up $80-$100. I'm on pace for about the same increase with my amount of driving/charging. Compare that to the $500+ per month I was spending on gas....it's a no brainer.

My experience with the purchase was insanely easy. The price that you see online is the price you pay plus tax and a small fee. I'd have to look up the itemized costs but they were negligible. The price is the price. No haggling, no hassle, no "check with my manager." Tesla also gave me the best trade in value for my BMW by a decent margin too. I did almost all of this through the Tesla app. Because I live nearby the dealership, they drove the car to my house and drove the trade-in back to the dealership. Whole process took about 20 minutes (not the hours and hours it takes to get a car at a regular dealership). Get online, price what you want, pay the $250 deposit and then sit back and wait. It's that easy.

Completely understand your predicament when it comes to varying degrees of travel per day. All I can say is range anxiety is real but I got over mine pretty quick. There are some days where I need to "top off" somewhere and that might add 30 minutes to my day, but it's just not a deal breaker for me. The one day per month you drive a long distance could be an issue, or you could just reset your brain to include charge time. Easier said than done, but that shift in mentality/expectation helped me. Tesla navigation will also map a route for you, making sure to hit the necessary Superchargers along the way. It helps eliminate the guess work and I use that feature daily even if I don't need it because it eases my mind. Lastly on this topic, when you aren't driving, the batteries are pretty efficient (1% drain per day when idle as mentioned earlier). I believe there were multiple reports earlier this year on the east coast when that highway got shutdown due to snow that the Teslas held up better than the ICE vehicles. Some people are running their own independent tests on how long the battery lasts if stuck in traffic in a blizzard etc. Results are pretty cool.

If you ever have the opportunity to rent an EV, I'd say give it a try. You might surprise yourself.

 

[irishog77]

I was lucky on charger install in that my panel had a free spot and it's conveniently located in the exact spot I park my car (literally within a foot). So my cheap price was entirely based on how short the cable run was. I think my neighbor had to run his from the basement panel up into the garage and his quote was significantly higher. Daily charging is entirely up to your driving needs. I charge to about 80%, which is 240 miles of estimated range each night but that's because I drive anywhere from 120-200 miles per day for work. If I only drove 10, like my wife, I'd charge a lot less (keep in mind Tesla batteries have about 1% drain per day when parked). For the record, my friend has a Model Y and he said his electric bill went up $80-$100. I'm on pace for about the same increase with my amount of driving/charging. Compare that to the $500+ per month I was spending on gas....it's a no brainer.

My experience with the purchase was insanely easy. The price that you see online is the price you pay plus tax and a small fee. I'd have to look up the itemized costs but they were negligible. The price is the price. No haggling, no hassle, no "check with my manager." Tesla also gave me the best trade in value for my BMW by a decent margin too. I did almost all of this through the Tesla app. Because I live nearby the dealership, they drove the car to my house and drove the trade-in back to the dealership. Whole process took about 20 minutes (not the hours and hours it takes to get a car at a regular dealership). Get online, price what you want, pay the $250 deposit and then sit back and wait. It's that easy.

Completely understand your predicament when it comes to varying degrees of travel per day. All I can say is range anxiety is real but I got over mine pretty quick. There are some days where I need to "top off" somewhere and that might add 30 minutes to my day, but it's just not a deal breaker for me. The one day per month you drive a long distance could be an issue, or you could just reset your brain to include charge time. Easier said than done, but that shift in mentality/expectation helped me. Tesla navigation will also map a route for you, making sure to hit the necessary Superchargers along the way. It helps eliminate the guess work and I use that feature daily even if I don't need it because it eases my mind. Lastly on this topic, when you aren't driving, the batteries are pretty efficient (1% drain per day when idle as mentioned earlier). I believe there were multiple reports earlier this year on the east coast when that highway got shutdown due to snow that the Teslas held up better than the ICE vehicles. Some people are running their own independent tests on how long the battery lasts if stuck in traffic in a blizzard etc. Results are pretty cool.

If you ever have the opportunity to rent an EV, I'd say give it a try. You might surprise yourself.

Hmmm, this is more good info and thanks again for sharing it!

I have already ordered a Bronco. I should be getting it Jul-Sep. But the tentative plan is that I will drive it a couple of years, then my wife will drive it, and we'll get rid of her SUV and get another sedan for me to drive. I will absolutely reevaluate in 2ish years on the Tesla. Hell, maybe by then I can even look at some other EV's. In a certain sense, 2 years may be an eternity and we'll see a lot of changes and continued improvements.

After the batteries and driving distance become a practical and logistical reality for many Americans, I wonder how long it will be before we arrive at the banana peel bio fuel Doc Brown seemed to already master way back in 1985?!

 

[IRISHDODGER]

My company is pushing hard for us to go to EV. It’s sounding more like a virtue signal from the CEO since they didn’t truly investigate the logistics for us folks in flyover country. Most of the reps I know are having to rent a car at least half the time for their long trips. There’s just not enough charging stations at this point for long drives. Sounds like the Tesla is the way to go but our company is going for the Chevy EUV (Bolt or Volt…I can’t keep the 2 straight). They don’t have a “super charger” so charging is a time drain if you can find a station. They provide a stipend for the increase in your home electric bill but it’s not enough to cover the increase. Now they’re telling everyone not to run the heat in the winter (“just use the seat warmer…no need to heat up the whole car for one person”) and not to run the air in the summer (roll your windows down instead). I drive 4-5 thousand miles per month. That’s not going to cut it. Still in my hybrid combustible engine vehicle but it’s getting close to 100K miles. Hoping they’ll just let me keep driving it.

I’d be fine w/ an EV if they just had more charging options. It just doesn’t make sense for folks w/ a lot of windshield time. To further the point, I have a friend who works in the automotive industry. He was excited to buy the new Ford Lightning (the electric F150 truck). He was at a local Ford dealership & their Ford Motor Co rep happened to be there. He asked him about ordering one & the rep cautioned him to wait until more infrastructure was available for charging since my friend drives a lot, too. As an example, the Ford rep said he drove an EV from Detroit to Memphis. He was told to download 5 different apps to find charging stations. One station he stopped at had a 5-hour wait. When he was close to his destination, he needed one last charge. His only option was a Porsche dealership where they charged him $65.

If you have a desk job or live in a big city, EV make perfect sense. I actually think if we’d continue driving our hybrid vehicles, it makes the most sense until the infrastructure is set up to ensure EV vehicle charging. But my company wants to remove their carbon footprint…laudable aspiration but the devil is in the details.

 

[Rockin’Irish]

My company is pushing hard for us to go to EV. It’s sounding more like a virtue signal from the CEO since they didn’t truly investigate the logistics for us folks in flyover country. Most of the reps I know are having to rent a car at least half the time for their long trips. There’s just not enough charging stations at this point for long drives. Sounds like the Tesla is the way to go but our company is going for the Chevy EUV (Bolt or Volt…I can’t keep the 2 straight). They don’t have a “super charger” so charging is a time drain if you can find a station. They provide a stipend for the increase in your home electric bill but it’s not enough to cover the increase. Now they’re telling everyone not to run the heat in the winter (“just use the seat warmer…no need to heat up the whole car for one person”) and not to run the air in the summer (roll your windows down instead). I drive 4-5 thousand miles per month. That’s not going to cut it. Still in my hybrid combustible engine vehicle but it’s getting close to 100K miles. Hoping they’ll just let me keep driving it.

I’d be fine w/ an EV if they just had more charging options. It just doesn’t make sense for folks w/ a lot of windshield time. To further the point, I have a friend who works in the automotive industry. He was excited to buy the new Ford Lightning (the electric F150 truck). He was at a local Ford dealership & their Ford Motor Co rep happened to be there. He asked him about ordering one & the rep cautioned him to wait until more infrastructure was available for charging since my friend drives a lot, too. As an example, the Ford rep said he drove an EV from Detroit to Memphis. He was told to download 5 different apps to find charging stations. One station he stopped at had a 5-hour wait. When he was close to his destination, he needed one last charge. His only option was a Porsche dealership where they charged him $65.

If you have a desk job or live in a big city, EV make perfect sense. I actually think if we’d continue driving our hybrid vehicles, it makes the most sense until the infrastructure is set up to ensure EV vehicle charging. But my company wants to remove their carbon footprint…laudable aspiration but the devil is in the details.

It would be a LOT more sensible for a government and corporate push towards hybrid vehicles as the first step to allow the infrastructure to catch up before a more stringent approach to EVs. Unless you have a Tesla where superchargers are an option then just the time you lose is rugged. And even the use of superchargers cause additional loss of battery capacity over time.

 

[yankeehater]

I love how gas (natural gas) and oil have a stigma yet lithium and the close to a dozen other mined minerals in an EV do not. Driving an EV is for the good of the environment. LOL! China thanks everyone though.

The Environmental Impact of Lithium Batteries

During the Obama-Biden administration, hydraulic fracturing was accused of causing a number of environmental problems—faucets on fire, contamination of drinking…

www.instituteforenergyresearch.org

 

[NDFAN420]

I love how gas (natural gas) and oil have a stigma yet lithium and the close to a dozen other mined minerals in an EV do not. Driving an EV is for the good of the environment. LOL! China thanks everyone though.

The Environmental Impact of Lithium Batteries

During the Obama-Biden administration, hydraulic fracturing was accused of causing a number of environmental problems—faucets on fire, contamination of drinking…

www.instituteforenergyresearch.org

Lithium mining. Not one free person in these pictures.

 

[yankeehater]

Yep. Aren't China and the Congo the two largest producers? I am sure they both meet OSHA standards.

 

[IRISHDODGER]

Lithium mining. Not one free person in these pictures.

I wasn’t going to get into that aspect but you are correct. The Congo supplies most of the world’s cobalt. Unfortunately, there are no longer an US-owned companies mining for it as they all sold out to China. To say there are human rights violations is an understatement when it comes to these artisanal miners breaking their backs & risking their lives for this stuff. Cobalt is what allows a lithium battery to get a longer charge so it’s necessary for EV & smart phones. We are all guilty of supporting this although I suspect very few of us knew as much until just recently. I hear Musk has an alternative to cobalt in development & plans to start manufacturing as many as half his vehicles w/o cobalt but it’s going to take awhile to find a safely mined equivalent.

 

[IRISHDODGER]

Yep. Aren't China and the Congo the two largest producers? I am sure they both meet OSHA standards.

The Congo contains the most cobalt. I want to say there’s a place in northern Norway that has a huge abundance of Lithium but the locals are fighting it b/c they live on that land. The fight for clean energy isn’t as clean as people think.

 

[yankeehater]

The Congo contains the most cobalt. I want to say there’s a place in northern Norway that has a huge abundance of Lithium but the locals are fighting it b/c they live on that land. The fight for clean energy isn’t as clean as people think.

Is anyone working on the recycling of the lithium batteries? Guessing that will be the next great boom coming up.

 

[Rockin’Irish]

Is anyone working on the recycling of the lithium batteries? Guessing that will be the next great boom coming up.

There are battery recycling operations being built but even these will produce waste that will have to be dealt with. There are no perfect solutions, we’ll have to pick our poison.

 

[NDohio]

The forklift world has already made a pretty big shift in going away from nickel/manganese/cobalt (NMC) compound batteries to lithium/iron/phosphate (LPF) compound batteries. Very few of the industrial battery manufacturers still use the NMC. LPF batteries have a longer life span and are waaaay more recyclable (high 90% compared to around 70%). There are a few factors that need to be worked on before they really start to take off for cars and trucks though. LPF batteries are heavier - this reduces the run time capabilities for EVs - and they are difficult to charge in cold temperatures.

I know some Ford vehicles are already using LPF batteries but those vehicles are have run time issues. I am sure they will get those worked out fairly quickly though.

 

[NDFAN420]

I wasn’t going to get into that aspect but you are correct. The Congo supplies most of the world’s cobalt. Unfortunately, there are no longer an US-owned companies mining for it as they all sold out to China. To say there are human rights violations is an understatement when it comes to these artisanal miners breaking their backs & risking their lives for this stuff. Cobalt is what allows a lithium battery to get a longer charge so it’s necessary for EV & smart phones. We are all guilty of supporting this although I suspect very few of us knew as much until just recently. I hear Musk has an alternative to cobalt in development & plans to start manufacturing as many as half his vehicles w/o cobalt but it’s going to take awhile to find a safely mined equivalent.

I did mean to write cobalt 🤦‍♂️ Thanks for the correction!

 

[Blazers46]

I would get one. My new gig I’ll be driving 500-600 miles per week. Not sure what that equates to in waiting times at the “pump”. But I don’t like anything that makes me wait. I’ll gas and go until they figure out how to make my time more efficient.

 

[BleedBlueGold]

My company is pushing hard for us to go to EV. It’s sounding more like a virtue signal from the CEO since they didn’t truly investigate the logistics for us folks in flyover country. Most of the reps I know are having to rent a car at least half the time for their long trips. There’s just not enough charging stations at this point for long drives. Sounds like the Tesla is the way to go but our company is going for the Chevy EUV (Bolt or Volt…I can’t keep the 2 straight). They don’t have a “super charger” so charging is a time drain if you can find a station. They provide a stipend for the increase in your home electric bill but it’s not enough to cover the increase. Now they’re telling everyone not to run the heat in the winter (“just use the seat warmer…no need to heat up the whole car for one person”) and not to run the air in the summer (roll your windows down instead). I drive 4-5 thousand miles per month. That’s not going to cut it. Still in my hybrid combustible engine vehicle but it’s getting close to 100K miles. Hoping they’ll just let me keep driving it.

I’d be fine w/ an EV if they just had more charging options. It just doesn’t make sense for folks w/ a lot of windshield time. To further the point, I have a friend who works in the automotive industry. He was excited to buy the new Ford Lightning (the electric F150 truck). He was at a local Ford dealership & their Ford Motor Co rep happened to be there. He asked him about ordering one & the rep cautioned him to wait until more infrastructure was available for charging since my friend drives a lot, too. As an example, the Ford rep said he drove an EV from Detroit to Memphis. He was told to download 5 different apps to find charging stations. One station he stopped at had a 5-hour wait. When he was close to his destination, he needed one last charge. His only option was a Porsche dealership where they charged him $65.

If you have a desk job or live in a big city, EV make perfect sense. I actually think if we’d continue driving our hybrid vehicles, it makes the most sense until the infrastructure is set up to ensure EV vehicle charging. But my company wants to remove their carbon footprint…laudable aspiration but the devil is in the details.

Yuck.

Nail on the head. The infrastructure and charge times are way too slow and unreliable to make it worth it for someone who drives as much as you do. For most people, it's perfectly fine.

I drive 120-200 miles per day. I have a tesla model y. I love it. I charge at home, at night and I'm good to go the next day. I've had a few month stretch when I couldn't charge at my house due to a renovation and it was brutal. Constantly having to schedule time in my day to run to Meijer to charge, each time taking 30-60 minutes depending on battery level and battery temperature (pre-conditioned vs not). It's fine, and I managed, but it was annoying.

The current design is set up for you to always get from point A to point B. In the event you cannot make it on one charge, the Tesla Supercharge Network is built so you can always get from one to the next w/o a full charge....which means you aren't stopping to charge for 60 minutes or longer constantly. Instead, you should be stopping every few hours for only about 10-15 minutes. That sounds annoying....and it would be if you had to do that every day. But most people don't. So for the majority, it's just fine at the moment.

Any non-Tesla EV that doesn't have access to the supercharge network can't compete yet. The new Ionic 6 has fast-charge capability but what they don't advertise is that Electrify America doesn't offer fast-charging at all of their stations. It's widely reported, too, that these stations aren't always reliable and sometimes have really long waits. Tesla has private access to it's own stations while everyone else is competing for any and all non-Tesla station. Tesla also has it's network integrated within it's navigation system. The car knows where the nearest one is, how long you need to stop, when to begin pre-conditioning, etc. It's so damn convenient.

 

[sixstar]

I've always been passively interested in going electric until recently.

I rented a 2018 Model S on a business trip last month. It was cold out, and the car averaged ~165 miles per full charge. It was abysmal. The car's calculated remaining range dropped 3-4 miles for every 1 mile that I drove. Just looking at my range stressed me out. I had to turn off the heater for an hour because my battery was low and I had about 15 miles of margin to get to the next charging station. I'm guessing that the rental car's battery was bad. Not sure what the replacement policy is on a 5-year old Tesla.

But that experience alone completely soured my opinion on owning an electric car in the near future. I don't want to constantly watch my tank as I drive, and I don't want to plan my trips around the location of superchargers. And I don't like sitting in a car charging up for an hour at a time.

 

[BleedBlueGold]

I would get one. My new gig I’ll be driving 500-600 miles per week. Not sure what that equates to in waiting times at the “pump”. But I don’t like anything that makes me wait. I’ll gas and go until they figure out how to make my time more efficient.

That's not a lot of driving. See my above post.

 

[Irish#1]

My company is pushing hard for us to go to EV. It’s sounding more like a virtue signal from the CEO since they didn’t truly investigate the logistics for us folks in flyover country. Most of the reps I know are having to rent a car at least half the time for their long trips. There’s just not enough charging stations at this point for long drives. Sounds like the Tesla is the way to go but our company is going for the Chevy EUV (Bolt or Volt…I can’t keep the 2 straight). They don’t have a “super charger” so charging is a time drain if you can find a station. They provide a stipend for the increase in your home electric bill but it’s not enough to cover the increase. Now they’re telling everyone not to run the heat in the winter (“just use the seat warmer…no need to heat up the whole car for one person”) and not to run the air in the summer (roll your windows down instead). I drive 4-5 thousand miles per month. That’s not going to cut it. Still in my hybrid combustible engine vehicle but it’s getting close to 100K miles. Hoping they’ll just let me keep driving it.

I’d be fine w/ an EV if they just had more charging options. It just doesn’t make sense for folks w/ a lot of windshield time. To further the point, I have a friend who works in the automotive industry. He was excited to buy the new Ford Lightning (the electric F150 truck). He was at a local Ford dealership & their Ford Motor Co rep happened to be there. He asked him about ordering one & the rep cautioned him to wait until more infrastructure was available for charging since my friend drives a lot, too. As an example, the Ford rep said he drove an EV from Detroit to Memphis. He was told to download 5 different apps to find charging stations. One station he stopped at had a 5-hour wait. When he was close to his destination, he needed one last charge. His only option was a Porsche dealership where they charged him $65.

If you have a desk job or live in a big city, EV make perfect sense. I actually think if we’d continue driving our hybrid vehicles, it makes the most sense until the infrastructure is set up to ensure EV vehicle charging. But my company wants to remove their carbon footprint…laudable aspiration but the devil is in the details.

Kind of unreasonable to push employees to EV's when there is a long way to go in getting better mileage out of the batteries, time to charge and location of charging stations.

 

[BleedBlueGold]

I've always been passively interested in going electric until recently.

I rented a 2018 Model S on a business trip last month. It was cold out, and the car averaged ~165 miles per full charge. It was abysmal. The car's calculated remaining range dropped 3-4 miles for every 1 mile that I drove. Just looking at my range stressed me out. I had to turn off the heater for an hour because my battery was low and I had about 15 miles of margin to get to the next charging station. I'm guessing that the rental car's battery was bad. Not sure what the replacement policy is on a 5-year old Tesla.

But that experience alone completely soured my opinion on owning an electric car in the near future. I don't want to constantly watch my tank as I drive, and I don't want to plan my trips around the location of superchargers. And I don't like sitting in a car charging up for an hour at a time.

100% true regarding extreme cold weather. It's a problem, no doubt.

You might've also experienced battery degradation. Which is a real concern of mine. I forget what the average degrade times are, but they aren't negligible. Especially for people who's commute is doable on a single charge. When it depletes below that single-charge territory, it'll drastically alter someone's experience w/ the EV if that's what they were previously used to.

 

[IRISHDODGER]

Kind of unreasonable to push employees to EV's when there is a long way to go in getting better mileage out of the batteries, time to charge and location of charging stations.

My perception is there’s a disconnect from corporate in that they are in a major metro area where there’s chargers at every office building and they have nothing but commute from home to their office to consider or if they’re in a big city there’s minimal driving. Whereas flyover country has long interstate drives from rural are to rural area or even mid-size cities.

 

[IrishSpartan]

Lucid over Tesla any day

 

[drayer54]

I’m on the car market now or at least debating it. I test drove the Ford Mach-E, Tesla Model 3, and another Tesla that was whatever the step up from the Model 3.

I currently drive a diesel truck and have paid over $5/gal for the last two years or so, so was interested in it given the tax handouts, “free” charging at work, and pure curiosity. I asked the reps what it would be like for my annual drive to Florida or Texas and that was where they lost me.
Ford guy told me that it basically does the route and tells me where to charge. Explained that it basically doubles my road trip time and has a lot of stops and that all assumes that I’m not waiting in line to charge. Tesla made it sound better, but it was basically the same thing.
Tesla features were nifty, but both cars were dropping range miles faster than I was driving.
The tax credit is also garbage, because it basically only included the lower end EVs. The higher end EVs are ridiculously higher priced for comparable models. I also saw the average new car is approaching $50k and that makes me hate this process even more. My truck was 56k in 2018 and a comparable version for this year was 73k.
I’m the OCD type that never has a tank below half full and can‘t imagine obsessing over parking near outlets, running cords, and tracking miles.
My favorite feature was the fake noise to make it sound like the car was accelerating.

I think the EV is a no from me for years to come.

 

[GATTACA!]

I’m on the car market now or at least debating it. I test drove the Ford Mach-E, Tesla Model 3, and another Tesla that was whatever the step up from the Model 3.

I currently drive a diesel truck and have paid over $5/gal for the last two years or so, so was interested in it given the tax handouts, “free” charging at work, and pure curiosity. I asked the reps what it would be like for my annual drive to Florida or Texas and that was where they lost me.
Ford guy told me that it basically does the route and tells me where to charge. Explained that it basically doubles my road trip time and has a lot of stops and that all assumes that I’m not waiting in line to charge. Tesla made it sound better, but it was basically the same thing.
Tesla features were nifty, but both cars were dropping range miles faster than I was driving.
The tax credit is also garbage, because it basically only included the lower end EVs. The higher end EVs are ridiculously higher priced for comparable models. I also saw the average new car is approaching $50k and that makes me hate this process even more. My truck was 56k in 2018 and a comparable version for this year was 73k.
I’m the OCD type that never has a tank below half full and can‘t imagine obsessing over parking near outlets, running cords, and tracking miles.
My favorite feature was the fake noise to make it sound like the car was accelerating.

I think the EV is a no from me for years to come.

Car prices are outrageous right now.

 

[IRISHDODGER]

Lucid over Tesla any day

Just make one that holds a long enough charge that equals a tank of gas. I doubt Lucid does that either.

 

[BleedBlueGold]

Is your trip to Florida only once per year? Why not just rent a gas vehicle for that trip?

We drive to Florida once or twice per year and we always rent a Chrysler Pacifica PHEV because, I agree, driving a full EV from Indiana to Florida doubles our trip time. With the Pacifica, we get 30 miles of electric range before the gas kicks in. It's negligible for a trip that long, but at least all of the city driving during the week of vacation is "free" since we just plug in at the house we rent. Anyways, just a thought. I'm not sure I'd let one yearly trip convince me to not get an EV.

Regarding the tax credit, from what I read, Tesla is decreasing prices in order to help fall within the cap. Idk if that's been verified. I do know that the model y has dropped in price from what I paid and if you factor in the $7500 credit, the price of that car is pretty reasonable compared to other full EVs or PHEVs on the market. It's a no-brainer for me. Factor in your "free" charging at work and that should add far more savings.

You say you're OCD and never let your gas tank fall below half full...well if you're charging at home at night and at work during the day, your battery will basically never drop below that (unless you have a crazy commute to work each day).

 

[IRISHDODGER]

Is your trip to Florida only once per year? Why not just rent a gas vehicle for that trip?

We drive to Florida once or twice per year and we always rent a Chrysler Pacifica PHEV because, I agree, driving a full EV from Indiana to Florida doubles our trip time. With the Pacifica, we get 30 miles of electric range before the gas kicks in. It's negligible for a trip that long, but at least all of the city driving during the week of vacation is "free" since we just plug in at the house we rent. Anyways, just a thought. I'm not sure I'd let one yearly trip convince me to not get an EV.

Regarding the tax credit, from what I read, Tesla is decreasing prices in order to help fall within the cap. Idk if that's been verified. I do know that the model y has dropped in price from what I paid and if you factor in the $7500 credit, the price of that car is pretty reasonable compared to other full EVs or PHEVs on the market. It's a no-brainer for me. Factor in your "free" charging at work and that should add far more savings.

You say you're OCD and never let your gas tank fall below half full...well if you're charging at home at night and at work during the day, your battery will basically never drop below that (unless you have a crazy commute to work each day).

I’ve heard that Tesla dropped their price even more than what you posted. I want to say it was $15K.

 

[IRISHDODGER]

Electric vehicle drivers get candid about charging: 'Logistical nightmare'

Charging an electric vehicle on the go is neither easy nor fast.

abcnews.go.com

 

[BleedBlueGold]

Electric vehicle drivers get candid about charging: 'Logistical nightmare'

Charging an electric vehicle on the go is neither easy nor fast.

abcnews.go.com

Any non-Tesla EV that doesn't have access to the supercharge network can't compete yet. The new Ionic 6 has fast-charge capability but what they don't advertise is that Electrify America doesn't offer fast-charging at all of their stations. It's widely reported, too, that these stations aren't always reliable and sometimes have really long waits. Tesla has private access to it's own stations while everyone else is competing for any and all non-Tesla station. Tesla also has it's network integrated within it's navigation system. The car knows where the nearest one is, how long you need to stop, when to begin pre-conditioning, etc. It's so damn convenient.

I had to reiterate this point to a friend of mine who loathes Tesla (probably for some weird anti-Musk reasons) and is leaning towards getting an Ioniq 6.

Non-Tesla EVs can't compete with Tesla when it comes to the Supercharger network.

That's a good article. There are many valid take-home points within it. Musk has been pounding the table for many of them for years. For example, most charging is done at home and most daily drivers don't need more than 250 miles of range. This is crucial to understand and accept. EVs are not a one-size-fits-all type of vehicle, but for "most" people, the 250-300 mile range EVs are more than enough. The real problem to solve isn't increasing range cost-effectively, it's finding ways to increase the charge rates and Tesla is leading the way in that realm as well.

I think that Subway charge station concept is "neat," but again, most people charge from home or once they get to their destination. Charge stations like this concept will work for some road-trippers, but most people aren't ok doubling or tripling the length of travel time. Instead of investing in these one-stop-shop places that assume charging will take an hour...investment needs to be made in technology that yields faster charge times. Tesla's new roll out of the 250kw charges are attacking this issue head on and with Hyundai and Electrify America pushing the 350kw envelope (although not consistently), it's forcing Tesla to move to their Version 4 chargers that will do 350kw as well. If the batteries are preconditioned and can accept the faster charging speeds, this will be a massive game-changer for charge times. You'd barely have time to take a piss before your battery is full. Thankfully, it appears the push is in this direction as opposed to the former Subway concept model.

 

[drayer54]

 

[NorthDakota]

Saw a man in my building has a Tesla. Pretty surprising he would prioritize having a Tesla instead of owning a home. Particularly in a place like ND.