Stanford postgame and post-2023 regular reason thread

ulukinatme

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Hartman was indeed a disappointment, but I had fun rooting for him. Super solid guy who's really easy to like. I wish he could have been even 25% more of what he was on the field. That beats OSU and all this would be different. Really a bummer, I wanted him to be a legend so bad, his whole vibe deserves it. He's going to be a success at something in life.


I still have all the faith in CMF but I'll admit that could change even before next season starts. He needs to handle the staffing issues and put ND on a palatable upward trajectory. Parker was a disaster. We need a home run OC and an honest to God #1 boundary WR. He has to get both before fall or his seat gets warm/hot, whether it's his fault or the admin.

Sad to see Audric go but he needs to.

I really hope Golden sticks with us and a couple of the big boys on D decide to give it one more go.

That being said about Golden, I don't think we give MF enough credit for the quality of this defense. His fingerprints are all over it. If Golden goes, I don't think it will be as precipitous a drop as most seem to think.

Please get us a hot shit OC.

4th in total yards given up, 8th in points given up. 3rd in passing yards per game. Run defense could have been better, but wasn't awful.
Championship level defense. Pay the man, don't let him go. Maybe he can coach offense too?
 

ulukinatme

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Better hope Audric and Hartman play in the bowl game
Depends on who we play. I feel like we should be overmatched for whoever we'll end up getting paired with now. RB room should be able to produce, although Audric might be missed in short yardage situations. I feel like Angeli needs more reps so we can see what he can really do. I'd like to see us get to 10 wins, but it's just so disappointing when we should have at least been going to a New Years bowl this year and probably more.
 

IrishBoognish

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4th in total yards given up, 8th in points given up. 3rd in passing yards per game. Run defense could have been better, but wasn't awful.
Championship level defense. Pay the man, don't let him go. Maybe he can coach offense too?


I agree with you. I want Golden back very much. I hope that came through. It was a long post and I was in my feelings.
 

BeatSC

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The thing is, Parker knows more about football than all of us combined. Al of these guys do. It's about fit.

He's still pretty young. Hopefully, if he returns, he'll have a definite offensive direction to go in, gets serious work with other offensive coaches somewhere and installs something lethal.
Based on his comments on the lack of play action I would say that comment doesn’t hold water. Guy thinks he knows shit when in fact he doesn’t know shit.
 

ColinKSU

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The thing is, Parker knows more about football than all of us combined. Al of these guys do. It's about fit.

He's still pretty young. Hopefully, if he returns, he'll have a definite offensive direction to go in, gets serious work with other offensive coaches somewhere and installs something lethal.
I think it’s both possible that Parker knows more about football than all of us combined but also not nearly as much about football as you’d think the OC of a team with Notre Dame’s aspirations should know…
 

thekid33

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On the one hand, I share the sense of "what if?"

On the other hand, had we managed the regular season Parker would have been exposed in the playoff game.

This way, he was exposed throughout the season.

So, as long as MF mans up and moves on, then I'll be glass half full on the year.

Hire a real OC.

Give Golden a blank check to keep him.

Kick ass next season.
 

tko

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I just followed via text with some buddies and also the espn ridiculous Gamecast. I was losing my mind in that first half. Did Freeman have the boys sleepwalking? Between fumbles, more special teams gaffes, penalties, I cannot comprehend what the future will look like under Freeman. I like MF, but I’m anticipating staff turnover like we’ve never seen before, so will he have the power to hire or will the BoT decide for him? Hopefully the bowl prep goes well and some guys step up and show out in the bowl ahead of next year.
 

Huntr

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From Sampson's post-game write-up.

Notre Dame’s willingness — or reluctance — to work play-action passes into the offense had turned into a November talking point after Sam Hartman attempted just two of them in the loss at Clemson earlier this month. The two games since then aren’t much of a sample size, but they hint that Notre Dame’s offense may have missed out on developing a part of the playbook that could have helped in the season’s three losses.


1701003694418.jpeg
 

Rockin’Irish

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I just followed via text with some buddies and also the espn ridiculous Gamecast. I was losing my mind in that first half. Did Freeman have the boys sleepwalking? Between fumbles, more special teams gaffes, penalties, I cannot comprehend what the future will look like under Freeman. I like MF, but I’m anticipating staff turnover like we’ve never seen before, so will he have the power to hire or will the BoT decide for him? Hopefully the bowl prep goes well and some guys step up and show out in the bowl ahead of next year.
Three turnovers by the Irish in the first half are the only things that kept the game close. Hartman with a fumble after a long run, Hartman with an INT that he tried to throw when he wasn’t set and a fumble by Price after a nice kickoff return. The offense was moving the ball well but those gaffes continuously put the D in bad positions giving Stanford short fields and even then, the D limited the damage to some degree.
 

IRISHDODGER

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Depends on who we play. I feel like we should be overmatched for whoever we'll end up getting paired with now. RB room should be able to produce, although Audric might be missed in short yardage situations. I feel like Angeli needs more reps so we can see what he can really do. I'd like to see us get to 10 wins, but it's just so disappointing when we should have at least been going to a New Years bowl this year and probably more.
10 wins matters when folks look back because all they see in the 10 or 9 and nothing else.
 

IRISHDODGER

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Hey Pete, apologize for telling your subscribers that we were wrong about play action being successful for the offense!
It’s weird b/c he & O’Malley were the only ones preaching that. I listened to Tyler James and he disagreed w/ Sam’s history of PA pass efficiency going back to WF. My guess is folks are using different metrics or definitions of PA. I’ve seen some consider slow mesh as a type of PA and others that don’t. What we’ve seen the past two games against an average D & one of the worst D in America is that PA worked almost every time for Hartman & the offense.
 

Redbar

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Yeah it’s sad to think that with basic passing concepts and well design play action ND would’ve been 11-1 at worst.
People have been running play action since shortly after the forward pass. All types of offenses run pa, why would we think this was not something to keep in the toolbox?
 

DomerInHappyValley

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It’s weird b/c he & O’Malley were the only ones preaching that. I listened to Tyler James and he disagreed w/ Sam’s history of PA pass efficiency going back to WF. My guess is folks are using different metrics or definitions of PA. I’ve seen some consider slow mesh as a type of PA and others that don’t. What we’ve seen the past two games against an average D & one of the worst D in America is that PA worked almost every time for Hartman & the offense.
It's almost like PA from a team that was consistently facing man coverage with 8 in the box was always going to be successful.

Who knew?
 

Huntr

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It's not even *just* play action, and I don't want the media to define the problem that way.

It's being creative on the offensive side, in any manner. For most of the year, if they lined up and it looked like run, it was run. They consistently looked at 7-8 guys within 4 yards of the LoS and decided to run it right up the middle, despite Coogan, Correll and Spindler being varying degrees of dog shit and undersized. No pre-snap motion, no audibles, few(if any) "check with me's", no creativity with the ungodly stable of RBs - just line up and mash it. It was 3/4 of the season before they even tried making Faison and Raridon integral parts of the game plan, despite the receiving corps being a) young and b) short-handed due to injuries. And they looked like shit for it.

Yeah, sure ND was gassed by UL, but the coaching staff pissed away Ohio State and they pissed away Clemson. The D saved the Duke game, and they gifted the O a bunch of short fields vs USC. It took until the 11th game of the season until it even looked like the staff learned anything. I don't know if that is hubris or stupidity or what.
 

Luckylucci

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So can we finally say Sam Hartman was a giant waste of money and shouldnt play the bowl game?
I am continually amazed at the conclusions fans come too.

He finished the regular season with the highest QB rating of any ND starting QB since Jimmy Clausen’s 2009 season.

It’d be the 2nd highest rating dating all the way back to 2003. So, higher than two Jimmy Clausen seasons and all of Brady Quinn’s.

And, his yds/att were the 2nd highest mark during that same time frame. Only being surpassed by Brady Quinn’s 2005 mark of 9.4.
 

CanadalovesND

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I am continually amazed at the conclusions fans come too.

He finished the regular season with the highest QB rating of any ND starting QB since Jimmy Clausen’s 2009 season.

It’d be the 2nd highest rating dating all the way back to 2003. So, higher than two Jimmy Clausen seasons and all of Brady Quinn’s.

And, his yds/att were the 2nd highest mark during that same time frame. Only being surpassed by Brady Quinn’s 2005 mark of 9.4.

I don’t think it’s correct to lump stats in with ability and efficiency. His stats may look good on paper, but most know that his ability is not that of a Quinn or Clausen. Clausen lost games, but there was never much doubt about him after his freshman season.

I was all for Hartman coming in. He was the only QB we could have had this season. Buchner was not the guy, neither was Pyne, and Angeli was not ready. And it is still questionable whether he was the tools to be that CFP caliber QB that ND is going to need.
 

Kingbish01

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For me, the season as a whole was disappointing. Losing to both OSU and Clemson hurt, and beating SC felt good for 5 days....and then everyone beat them. No signature win, and poor play by some guys we all thought would be stars. But, the great news is....we should all be use to it by now. Go Irish!
 

Redbar

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It's not even *just* play action, and I don't want the media to define the problem that way.

It's being creative on the offensive side, in any manner. For most of the year, if they lined up and it looked like run, it was run. They consistently looked at 7-8 guys within 4 yards of the LoS and decided to run it right up the middle, despite Coogan, Correll and Spindler being varying degrees of dog shit and undersized. No pre-snap motion, no audibles, few(if any) "check with me's", no creativity with the ungodly stable of RBs - just line up and mash it. It was 3/4 of the season before they even tried making Faison and Raridon integral parts of the game plan, despite the receiving corps being a) young and b) short-handed due to injuries. And they looked like shit for it.

Yeah, sure ND was gassed by UL, but the coaching staff pissed away Ohio State and they pissed away Clemson. The D saved the Duke game, and they gifted the O a bunch of short fields vs USC. It took until the 11th game of the season until it even looked like the staff learned anything. I don't know if that is hubris or stupidity or what.
Good post. I think it is a head coach who knows he is a novice on that side of the ball. He didn’t get who he wanted so he rolled with someone he saw as having a lot of potential. He knew it would be a learning experience so he tried to give him time to grow and adjust. Finally, he knows that in that industry you don’t just shoot guys down publicly especially good people and quality coaches (ie Coach Prime) nobody will want to coach with you and players lose confidence in the plan. A head coach cannot be as reactionary and whimsical as an internet poster. We’ll see how this offseason plays out, some of the decisions on MF’s plate and how he deals with them will resonate, and tell a lot about how successful a career he will have as a head coach at Notre Dame and beyond.
 

Luckylucci

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I don’t think it’s correct to lump stats in with ability and efficiency. His stats may look good on paper, but most know that his ability is not that of a Quinn or Clausen. Clausen lost games, but there was never much doubt about him after his freshman season.

I was all for Hartman coming in. He was the only QB we could have had this season. Buchner was not the guy, neither was Pyne, and Angeli was not ready. And it is still questionable whether he was the tools to be that CFP caliber QB that ND is going to need.
I made no such comments about him having more ability than them.

The comparison of stats shows the type of season he had in comparison to two ND QB’s most deem all-time greats. But, it also compares him, favorably I might add, to every other QB since then.

The yds/att stat is very significant because it shows we were finally able to get a QB that could consistently create big plays downfield. We literally haven’t had that in over a decade. Not even Kizer was as consistent with that during 2015 and he had Will Fuller.
 

Luckylucci

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Maybe put differently, that type of season is definitely worth $2M.
 

NDPhilly

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Disappointing season but not a total failure. 10-3 just optically is a hell of a lot better than another 9-4 year.

Honestly don’t know if it’s worth nuking the offensive staff if we get the offensive scheme we saw the last few weeks. Maybe just Give the play calling duties to Gino and give it another year. 2 straight years of turnover is tough for a team.

10-2 should be the floor for 2024, regardless of QB. Schedule is very manageable on the face, and anything less should make Freeman’s seat warm.
 

Bluto

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I don’t think it’s correct to lump stats in with ability and efficiency. His stats may look good on paper, but most know that his ability is not that of a Quinn or Clausen. Clausen lost games, but there was never much doubt about him after his freshman season.

I was all for Hartman coming in. He was the only QB we could have had this season. Buchner was not the guy, neither was Pyne, and Angeli was not ready. And it is still questionable whether he was the tools to be that CFP caliber QB that ND is going to need.
Put two receivers at the level of Tate and Floyd on this team and they are 12-0 and Hartman wins a heisman.
 
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