Special Teams Discussion

[irishff1014]

Really?? I disagree. Have you seen our punt returns? Have you seen the lack of speed in our defensive backfield? Can he even play some slot?

I think he is right there with Tee/Deontay/Jarron!

We have people on this team that could be very good punter returners Kelly just would use them. Instead put the Worse WR we have on the team to catch most of them with no speed or moves of any type. Not to mention we couldn't create room for a plane to land on special teams. Any returner had .2 seconds

 

[IndyIrishFan1]

sarcasm font...

Unfortunately, this isn't universally known yet. I think we're getting there.

 

[cLaRk_JoNeS]

in response to Olympia, there were no punt returns to see. Hester and Peterson could both be back there and we would have same total yards.

No one blocks anyone on the punt team. 4 guys literally SPRINT past the OL to the 3 guys infront of punter then stop no attempts at a block-then stare at punter as he kicks-then stare at the 3 guys they ran to go right by them.

The rest of the lineman do the olay move, then they also watch the other 3 guys run past them. The gunners i havent payed much attention to but they must be coached to nap cuz they are always 10 yards behind the punt team gunners.

Its physically upsetting watching that happen every punt for the whole season. How the special teams coach has a job is beyond me, the fact that he has worked with BK for 7 years is troubling as far as im concerned.

 

[cLaRk_JoNeS]

cfbstats.com - 2011 Notre Dame Fighting Irish Punt Return Offense Game Log

Holy u know what i didnt even know it was worse then i thought. You tell me how a guy coaching that, gets a paycheck from a program trying to come back to life.

 

[rtrn2glory]

bottom line with punt returns is that it doesn't matter how good your blocking is, if you don't put a guy back there that can make plays, nothing is going to happen. golden tate was the frickin man and we need a guy like that back there, not john goodman.

 

[cLaRk_JoNeS]

bottom line with punt returns is that it doesn't matter how good your blocking is, if you don't put a guy back there that can make plays, nothing is going to happen. golden tate was the frickin man and we need a guy like that back there, not john goodman.

thats foolish, no one is returning anything with 5-6 guys watching u catch a ball. Clearly John is not ideal and i have no clue why he was even asked to practice it.

 

[tko]

thats foolish, no one is returning anything with 5-6 guys watching u catch a ball. Clearly John is not ideal and i have no clue why he was even asked to practice it.

he was asked b/c Theo completely soiled himself unfortunately. i was really hoping for big things from him this year and he's really struggled in all facets. in the stanford game, he was still confused on where to line up. i hope he finds himself in the off-season.

 

[anarin]

thats foolish, no one is returning anything with 5-6 guys watching u catch a ball. Clearly John is not ideal and i have no clue why he was even asked to practice it.

Considering that it was an entire unit breakdown and it was better to play it safe, I'd love to hear who you think would be better then Goodman.

 

[BeauBenken]

You guys do realize Goodman is back there specifically to fair catch punts, right? If we want to try to get a real return we put in Floyd...it still never happens though because we don't have a blocking scheme down.

Darby is certainly a guy we have to keep though, duh.

 

[Sherm Sticky]

You guys do realize Goodman is back there specifically to fair catch punts, right? If we want to try to get a real return we put in Floyd...it still never happens though because we don't have a blocking scheme down.

Darby is certainly a guy we have to keep though, duh.

Exactly right!

 

[cLaRk_JoNeS]

Considering that it was an entire unit breakdown and it was better to play it safe, I'd love to hear who you think would be better then Goodman.

Anyone else beside maybe the slowest least athletic skill position player on roster. If no one else was truly capable of catching a ball, thats a pretty big issue lol. By the time game 7/8 rolled around and Kelly saw the unit was garbage, i could understand using a sure handed kinda guy.

How you dont accidently get more then 3 Total Yards for a whole season is pretty funny in a painful way

 

[cLaRk_JoNeS]

Also how do you go from this:


He has established UC's special teams unit as one of the best in the country. The Bearcats, behind two-time Associated Press all-America punter Kevin Huber, have led the nation in net punting in each of the past two seasons. UC is only the fourth team in NCAA Football Bowl Subdivision history to acomplish that task.

Huber, a consensus All-American in 2007, and kick returner Mardy Gilyard have helped UC win back-to-back BIG EAST Special Teams Player of the Year Awards. Huber earned the honor in 2007 and Gilyard took the award in 2008.

to only 88 yards in 2010 and 3 yards in 2011. It doesnt make any sense. Hes a Michigan grad so maybe he is secrectly trying to kill all the ND fans.

 

[GoldenIsThyFame]

BK talked quite a bit in one of his press conferences about punt returns and how they are way down across the country this year. He said that there are new formations and schemes that the kicking teams have implemented this year that make it difficult to have a successfull return.

He went on to basically say that they would wait until after the season to review the film and develop a strategy for next year as there were so many other issues we had to iron that took precident (i.e turnovers).

 

[Ironman8]

Also how do you go from this:


He has established UC's special teams unit as one of the best in the country. The Bearcats, behind two-time Associated Press all-America punter Kevin Huber, have led the nation in net punting in each of the past two seasons. UC is only the fourth team in NCAA Football Bowl Subdivision history to acomplish that task.

Huber, a consensus All-American in 2007, and kick returner Mardy Gilyard have helped UC win back-to-back BIG EAST Special Teams Player of the Year Awards. Huber earned the honor in 2007 and Gilyard took the award in 2008.

to only 88 yards in 2010 and 3 yards in 2011. It doesnt make any sense. Hes a Michigan grad so maybe he is secrectly trying to kill all the ND fans.

What does that tibit have to do with punt RETURNING, which is your main issue, is it not? You're telling me he had a great punter and a great kick return unit? The punter is a great singular talent, and you could argue that our own Ben Turk improved greatly over the course of this season. As for kick return, did you not see a true freshman return 2 kicks for touchdowns? He and Collinsworth also had numerous other returns that set us up with decent field position.

I guess I just don't understand how you are defending your punt return stance with that quote? I have my issues with the punt return as well (what ND fan wouldn't), but that certainly is not the quote to go about it. I do not have any issue with kick return, or honestly punting and coverage after the strides made this year in those categories. Condemn put return all you want, but our other aspects of special teams were pretty good.

 

[irishff1014]

What does that tibit have to do with punt RETURNING, which is your main issue, is it not? You're telling me he had a great punter and a great kick return unit? The punter is a great singular talent, and you could argue that our own Ben Turk improved greatly over the course of this season. As for kick return, did you not see a true freshman return 2 kicks for touchdowns? He and Collinsworth also had numerous other returns that set us up with decent field position.

I guess I just don't understand how you are defending your punt return stance with that quote? I have my issues with the punt return as well (what ND fan wouldn't), but that certainly is not the quote to go about it. I do not have any issue with kick return, or honestly punting and coverage after the strides made this year in those categories. Condemn put return all you want, but our other aspects of special teams were pretty good.

Field goals and punt returns were not goood and Kickoff returns we goood and as you said punts got better.

 

[cLaRk_JoNeS]

What does that tibit have to do with punt RETURNING, which is your main issue, is it not? You're telling me he had a great punter and a great kick return unit? The punter is a great singular talent, and you could argue that our own Ben Turk improved greatly over the course of this season. As for kick return, did you not see a true freshman return 2 kicks for touchdowns? He and Collinsworth also had numerous other returns that set us up with decent field position.

I guess I just don't understand how you are defending your punt return stance with that quote? I have my issues with the punt return as well (what ND fan wouldn't), but that certainly is not the quote to go about it. I do not have any issue with kick return, or honestly punting and coverage after the strides made this year in those categories. Condemn put return all you want, but our other aspects of special teams were pretty good.

LOL i read that as Huber was an all american punt returner. So thats my bad.

 

[Ironman8]

Field goals and punt returns were not goood and Kickoff returns we goood and as you said punts got better.

Well I mean field goals could only go down from last year, and honestly that isn't really coaching as long as they aren't getting blocked or something like that. If a normally reliable kicker is simply in a slump or is missing more this year that last, I don't see how you can put that on the coaches.

 

[cLaRk_JoNeS]

BK talked quite a bit in one of his press conferences about punt returns and how they are way down across the country this year. He said that there are new formations and schemes that the kicking teams have implemented this year that make it difficult to have a successfull return.

He went on to basically say that they would wait until after the season to review the film and develop a strategy for next year as there were so many other issues we had to iron that took precident (i.e turnovers).

Im sorry but that is a joke. Formations have nothing to do with your players NOT touching the other team at all. Im not bashing here, they seriously didnt bother TRYING to block ppl i saw players move out of the way of guys. Again all i have to point out is the stat 3 YARDS. If Goodman just falls down after a catch hes tall enough to get 2 yards.

His punt return yards were 600 2008 2009 combined, so clearly the guy has some sort of clue. Its mind blowing how the stats can be that diff, its not formations.

 

[irishff1014]

I didn't mean for it to sound like it was coaches fault for that. And not even to bash the kicker but you have to be be better thne 66%.

 

[returnofthemack]

It doesn't matter who's back for punt returns. Devin Hester, Desean Jackson, LaMichael James, etc. I don't remember watching an ND "punt return" where the receiver wasn't surrounded by at least 4 members of the kicking team. Nobody's going to break out of that. And I should think that after we saw how bad Riddick was at fair-catching that we'd appreciate the sure-handedness of Goodman.

 

[GoldenDomer87]

Guys, I thought it was pretty obvious by the Purdue game that Kelly had given up on punt return and decided to just fair catch everything.

I think we can agree that ND needed a whole revamp on the punt return phase and that is not something you do mid-season. I think Kelly might try to install something over the bowl break, but this will be, and is, an off-season project.

 

[BGIF]

I didn't mean for it to sound like it was coaches fault for that. And not even to bash the kicker but you have to be be better thne 66%.

Carney is 75% for his career.
Hendricks is 69%.

Ruffer shattered the All-Time FG record at ND. He's at 84% for his career. He's 66 for this year but with only 15 kicks, one more successful kick or 11/15 is 73%, two more would put him at 75%. We're not talking 300 or 400 passes like QBs.

Keep in mind the goals posts have gotten narrower and taller through the years as well as being moved back from the goal line making it kicks longer and tougher. FG kickers also have to have a good snap, a good hold, OLine protection in the middle and the wings, and THEN they have to kick it through the uprights. Then there are other factors like weather, swirling winds, headwind, and poor footing were the back and receivers keep falling down using two feet.

The SU miss was Ruffer's, the ones earlier in the season had some flaky snaps and holds.

 

[Patulski]

I have never seen an ND coach deliberately not try to improve a facet of the team like Kelly did with the punt return team this year. It is baffling. It was obvious that Goodman was back there to fair catch the ball. People in the stands were calling him "Fair Catch Goodman". Most high school coaches could put Roby Toma back there and make something out of the punt return unit. Why Kelly decided to do nothing is disconcerting.

 

[GoldenDomer87]

I have never seen an ND coach deliberately not try to improve a facet of the team like Kelly did with the punt return team this year. It is baffling. It was obvious that Goodman was back there to fair catch the ball. People in the stands were calling him "Fair Catch Goodman". Most high school coaches could put Roby Toma back there and make something out of the punt return unit. Why Kelly decided to do nothing is disconcerting.

BECAUSE IT TAKES TOO MUCH TIME! That is the point I was trying to make. When would he fix it? Kelly has limited practice time, has to plan for the next game, and is still trying to install his offense. There were more pertinent things that needed work on (maybe things he thought were easier to fix). I would have loved to see some young guns get a chance to make a play, but you can't just throw guys in and say go do it.

I'm hoping it gets a look over the bowl break so it could be a "surprise" for whomever we play because we all know there is no tape of ND returning punts .

 

[Kak7304]

BECAUSE IT TAKES TOO MUCH TIME! That is the point I was trying to make. When would he fix it? Kelly has limited practice time, has to plan for the next game, and is still trying to install his offense. There were more pertinent things that needed work on (maybe things he thought were easier to fix). I would have loved to see some young guns get a chance to make a play, but you can't just throw guys in and say go do it.

I'm hoping it gets a look over the bowl break so it could be a "surprise" for whomever we play because we all know there is no tape of ND returning punts .

Kelly is well-aware of our ineptitude in the punt return game. My guess is the unit (strategy, players, etc.) needs a complete overhaul and he feels it can't simply be solved during the season and will be revisited in the off-season.

 

[BGIF]

BECAUSE IT TAKES TOO MUCH TIME! That is the point I was trying to make. When would he fix it? Kelly has limited practice time, has to plan for the next game, and is still trying to install his offense. There were more pertinent things that needed work on (maybe things he thought were easier to fix). I would have loved to see some young guns get a chance to make a play, but you can't just throw guys in and say go do it.

I'm hoping it gets a look over the bowl break so it could be a "surprise" for whomever we play because we all know there is no tape of ND returning punts .

There's only 20 hours in the college "work week". Hard to take a Floyd who needs time to get in sync with Crist, then Rees, and now Hendrix. Fans forget the time limitations and that plays aren't student body left, go long, or triple option left on three. The entire offense has to read the defense, the OL checks blocking assignments, the QB and RB look for the blitz, the QB audibles, everybody reasseses, on the snap the receivers and QB are reassessing coverage on the fly ... . It takes practice time.

Anyone recall The Shark's Senior Year. He and Quinn had been a great pair as Juniors. Shark took the summer to play pro ball. First two games of the year, Shark broke left as Quinn was throwing right, Quinn would throw the ball and Shark never turned around, kept on running, or put the brakes on 5 yds short of Quinn's pass. They looked like they had never played together before.

So take a Floyd or Riddick out of an offense that needs all the PT it can get to what, turn a fair cathch into a 5 yd gain ... or a muff. A couple of days ago I came across stats on punt returns by lost the link. Bottom line the chances of a turnover exceeded the likelihood or a big game. After the first two games or so I suspect Kelly decided the risk was too great in the allotted time and would take up time of players needed to practice more elsewhere.

I was at a loss for the lack of block on 4 or 5 men coming downfield unimpeded unless you consider that The Plan IS to Fair Catch. Is so, why risk a hold or block in the back when you have no intention of returning the punt? Think about it.

It doesn't play to the testoserone crowd but it is the smarter play, like laying up on the golf course in front of the water hazard and taking a high percentage chip to the green rather than going for the flag from 230 yds out and hoping you can hold on the green. Piece of cake for the guys that play for pay with no practice time restraints.

Not an excuse, a rationale.

 

[Ignats]

On the bright side, I've enjoyed breaking out the "John Goodman" at parties and social gatherings. Stand in the middle of the room and wave your arm over your head. Works like a charm every time and the whole room is doing it before you know it.

 

[cLaRk_JoNeS]

On the bright side, I've enjoyed breaking out the "John Goodman" at parties and social gatherings. Stand in the middle of the room and wave your arm over your head. Works like a charm every time and the whole room is doing it before you know it.

the new Tebowing?

 

[Patulski]

BECAUSE IT TAKES TOO MUCH TIME! That is the point I was trying to make. When would he fix it? Kelly has limited practice time, has to plan for the next game, and is still trying to install his offense. There were more pertinent things that needed work on (maybe things he thought were easier to fix). I would have loved to see some young guns get a chance to make a play, but you can't just throw guys in and say go do it.

I'm hoping it gets a look over the bowl break so it could be a "surprise" for whomever we play because we all know there is no tape of ND returning punts .

Every coach in the country manages to work on the punt return team and manage the rest of the team. Heck, there's a feature article in the SB Tribune today of a local kid at Wabash college. In it, he says "“My teammates get mad at me if I fair-catch the ball”.

If Wabash college can find a kid to catch the ball and return it, I'm sure ND can. I don't buy the excuse that it takes too much time, or that ND had so many deficiencies that it couldn't work on fielding and returning a punt. Sorry.

 

[Mr. Larson]

Every coach in the country manages to work on the punt return team and manage the rest of the team. Heck, there's a feature article in the SB Tribune today of a local kid at Wabash college. In it, he says "“My teammates get mad at me if I fair-catch the ball”.

If Wabash college can find a kid to catch the ball and return it, I'm sure ND can. I don't buy the excuse that it takes too much time, or that ND had so many deficiencies that it couldn't work on fielding and returning a punt. Sorry.

Kelly is rebuilidng from the bottom up. Takes time to "change the culture". Punt returns were a low priority this year. Secure the ball. Take over on offense.