So....What’s the point?

[Rudy89]

In the last three years we have played in a game where we could’ve solidified ourselves as great but instead of doing that we showed that we aren’t even really that good. I’m the years in between we work post season games that made us smile but when the rest of the country looked at it they went “oh, that cute you think that means something.” and please spells me tell me they weren’t in the right. Right now once again we are left humiliated after a big game, on the cusp of getting put in another big game only to maybe have something even worse done to us. Why’s the point of all this? What can we do to be better because I don’t think that’s ever going to happen. Citrus and Camping World Bowls are fun but they aren’t great. We can be fun but not great.

 

[irishtrooper]

Why play at all? I mean, if we can’t be the best why even bother? This is crazy to me. Possibly because I’m a Bills fan, and I’m used to disappointment. I saw ND win in 1988 when I was in elementary school and all of the struggles for years is why we watch. I love this team, these players and the program. It gives me so much to look forward to. It gives me hope. Hope for a better tomorrow. Hope for a continuing pursuit of excellence. Believe me, when they win it all - it will mean so much more.

I also like the St Louis Cardinals in baseball. I did not see them win in 1982 as I was too young. I saw them lose in 1985, 1987 and get close but lose in the late 90’s and early 00s. I felt so much happiness when they finally did it. I love ND a hundred times more than any other team that I follow. I will support each and every glimmer of a chance they will ever have and die a little with each heartbreak. I literally got texts from my boss, coworkers and friends seeing if I was ok tonight....... I suppose they know where my heart is too

This doesn’t mean we don’t have the right to be critical or second guess what we see and such. At the end of the day I hope everyone here feels similarly to me, otherwise why are y’all here?

 

[Rudy89]

Why play at all? I mean, if we can’t be the best why even bother? This is crazy to me. Possibly because I’m a Bills fan, and I’m used to disappointment. I saw ND win in 1988 when I was in elementary school and all of the struggles for years is why we watch. I love this team, these players and the program. It gives me so much to look forward to. It gives me hope. Hope for a better tomorrow. Hope for a continuing pursuit of excellence. Believe me, when they win it all - it will mean so much more.

I also like the St Louis Cardinals in baseball. I did not see them win in 1982 as I was too young. I saw them lose in 1985, 1987 and get close but lose in the late 90’s and early 00s. I felt so much happiness when they finally did it. I love ND a hundred times more than any other team that I follow. I will support each and every glimmer of a chance they will ever have and die a little with each heartbreak. I literally got texts from my boss, coworkers and friends seeing if I was ok tonight....... I suppose they know where my heart is too

This doesn’t mean we don’t have the right to be critical or second guess what we see and such. At the end of the day I hope everyone here feels similarly to me, otherwise why are y’all here?

Reality is they won’t in it all. This was the year to win it all and make it mean that much. We just got exposed as average and it’s about to get worse. Yeah honestly if you can’t compete for a title....why go after it if you’re gonna be mocked like we are. I’d rather just accept our fate as mediocre and we all take a step back than keep us going into ever year like “oh gee golly we can be something” then eventually be sent back to reality knowing we aren’t anything. And I ask to everyone on this board where’s the lie in what I said?

 

[NDRock]

Why are the games we lose the only big games? We beat the #1 team in the country this year in a great game. That wasn’t big?

 

[NDRock]

Reality is they won’t in it all. This was the year to win it all and make it mean that much. We just got exposed as average and it’s about to get worse. Yeah honestly if you can’t compete for a title....why go after it if you’re gonna be mocked like we are. I’d rather just accept our fate as mediocre and we all take a step back than keep us going into ever year like “oh gee golly we can be something” then eventually be sent back to reality knowing we aren’t anything. And I ask to everyone on this board where’s the lie in what I said?

You really thought we had a shot to win it all this year? Did you look at our starting QB and WRs? Do you watch other teams play? Personally, I think we’ve put performed our talent and had a great year.

 

[irishtrooper]

Reality is they won’t in it all. This was the year to win it all and make it mean that much. We just got exposed as average and it’s about to get worse. Yeah honestly if you can’t compete for a title....why go after it if you’re gonna be mocked like we are. I’d rather just accept our fate as mediocre and we all take a step back than keep us going into ever year like “oh gee golly we can be something” then eventually be sent back to reality knowing we aren’t anything. And I ask to everyone on this board where’s the lie in what I said?

I feel bad for you. Maybe you should just root for the best team every year. I really don’t follow the logic. I would rather be in it rather than PSU or Michigan or USC or name any other blue blood program that has never made the playoff or competed for a title in over a decade. We’ve been in the playoff (soon to be twice) and played for the natty 8 yrs ago. So many teams would love to have our success. What about teams that can’t ever even get a shot like name basically any non power 5 team? The reality is if you don’t like Clemson or Bama lately (with very occasional exceptions of LSU or OSU), you’re going to be very disappointed with your outlook

 

[SouthSideChiDomer]

In the last three years we have played in a game where we could’ve solidified ourselves as great but instead of doing that we showed that we aren’t even really that good. I’m the years in between we work post season games that made us smile but when the rest of the country looked at it they went “oh, that cute you think that means something.” and please spells me tell me they weren’t in the right. Right now once again we are left humiliated after a big game, on the cusp of getting put in another big game only to maybe have something even worse done to us. Why’s the point of all this? What can we do to be better because I don’t think that’s ever going to happen. Citrus and Camping World Bowls are fun but they aren’t great. We can be fun but not great.

We cannot beat Clemson, Ohio State, or Alabama trying to play their game while we tie our coaches' hands behind their backs. If we want to beat them, we can't just try to be better than them at what they do while not being able to get the same talent on the field. Notre Dame won championships when we did things other programs hadn't thought to do yet. Now that model of innovation has been take by Alabama, and to a lesser extent, by Clemson. We are constantly playing catch up while only getting to 80% of their level and then hoping somehow we can beat them. The best coaches find all the ways to get that extra 1-2% advantage and then all those 1-2%s add up. Instead of being proactive about finding new advantages that we can use, we are constantly reacting to what others have done.

I firmly believe we could be like Alabama or Clemson if we wanted it enough, but nothing we have done shows me we want it enough. I think all the higher ups in the administration are happy for us to just be good because the effort and investment it would take for us to be elite is just too much for them.

 

[NDRock]

We cannot beat Clemson, Ohio State, or Alabama trying to play their game while we tie our coaches' hands behind their backs. If we want to beat them, we can't just try to be better than them at what they do while not being able to get the same talent on the field. Notre Dame won championships when we did things other programs hadn't thought to do yet. Now that model of innovation has been take by Alabama, and to a lesser extent, by Clemson. We are constantly playing catch up while only getting to 80% of their level and then hoping somehow we can beat them. The best coaches find all the ways to get that extra 1-2% advantage and then all those 1-2%s add up. Instead of being proactive about finding new advantages that we can use, we are constantly reacting to what others have done.

I firmly believe we could be like Alabama or Clemson if we wanted it enough, but nothing we have done shows me we want it enough. I think all the higher ups in the administration are happy for us to just be good because the effort and investment it would take for us to be elite is just too much for them.

The thing is, the rest of college football can’t beat those guys either and many are good with cheating their balls off.

 

[Rudy89]

We cannot beat Clemson, Ohio State, or Alabama trying to play their game while we tie our coaches' hands behind their backs. If we want to beat them, we can't just try to be better than them at what they do while not being able to get the same talent on the field. Notre Dame won championships when we did things other programs hadn't thought to do yet. Now that model of innovation has been take by Alabama, and to a lesser extent, by Clemson. We are constantly playing catch up while only getting to 80% of their level and then hoping somehow we can beat them. The best coaches find all the ways to get that extra 1-2% advantage and then all those 1-2%s add up. Instead of being proactive about finding new advantages that we can use, we are constantly reacting to what others have done.

I firmly believe we could be like Alabama or Clemson if we wanted it enough, but nothing we have done shows me we want it enough. I think all the higher ups in the administration are happy for us to just be good because the effort and investment it would take for us to be elite is just too much for them.

You’re right....so again I aka what is the point?! What do we as Irish fans have to look forward to anymore? I’ve been an Irish fan since 92 and in my whole lifetime we have had one legit elite team, some fools gold, and many mediocre teams that our fandom blinders led us to believe actually were worth more than what they are. Ohio State fans are laughing at us right now. Alabama fans are laughing at us right now. There’s non relief in sight other than next year after we get killed getting to say “we beat some other team in the whatever bowl y’all” I just feel like I’ve reached my breaking point. If a championship won’t ever happen then what really is the point?

 

[Rudy89]

The thing is, the rest of college football can’t beat those guys either and many are good with cheating their balls off.

The let’s start cheating! I don’t know what playing this morale high horse game has won us but it’s not as much as them.

 

[Irish YJ]

In the last three years we have played in a game where we could’ve solidified ourselves as great but instead of doing that we showed that we aren’t even really that good. I’m the years in between we work post season games that made us smile but when the rest of the country looked at it they went “oh, that cute you think that means something.” and please spells me tell me they weren’t in the right. Right now once again we are left humiliated after a big game, on the cusp of getting put in another big game only to maybe have something even worse done to us. Why’s the point of all this? What can we do to be better because I don’t think that’s ever going to happen. Citrus and Camping World Bowls are fun but they aren’t great. We can be fun but not great.

We're not great, but we're better than just fun.

There's only been a few great teams the last 10 years. If we're honest, we know Bama, Clemson, and OSU simply have more talent, and easier conditions to work under. Saban and Dabo are the best.

I'm honestly fine with fun, as I love this team. It's better to be fun, and approaching great, than being any other team not named OSU, Bama, or Clemson.

 

[SouthSideChiDomer]

The thing is, the rest of college football can’t beat those guys either and many are good with cheating their balls off.

They are also trying to copy them while being worse at it. These teams have perfected the formula while the wannabes are still trying to figure it out, but as soon as they do, the best teams are already moved on to the next thing.

You’re right....so again I aka what is the point?! What do we as Irish fans have to look forward to anymore? I’ve been an Irish fan since 92 and in my whole lifetime we have had one legit elite team, some fools gold, and many mediocre teams that our fandom blinders led us to believe actually were worth more than what they are. Ohio State fans are laughing at us right now. Alabama fans are laughing at us right now. There’s non relief in sight other than next year after we get killed getting to say “we beat some other team in the whatever bowl y’all” I just feel like I’ve reached my breaking point. If a championship won’t ever happen then what really is the point?

I take solace knowing we are better than all but maybe 10 teams in the entire country. That is honestly pretty amazing when you think about it. Year in and year out now, we will be one of the top 10 teams in the country. That means there are 120 teams we are better than. We might not be a national title contender, but we a really good team that can do it in a clean way. And if we stay like this, maybe eventually we catch lightning in a bottle like last years LSU team. Or we finally decide to take the jump and put in the effort and investment to be elite. But I don't see that happening for a while, so for now I'm happy with just being able to be proud to wear the ND logo around except for the week or two after the embarrassing loss every year.

 

[Luckylucci]

I think everyone is disappointed but these threads are worse than the performance today.

The guys came out and beat everyone except for 1 team on their 11 game schedule. That’s pretty damn good and should be celebrated. It was a crazy fun ride. If every year we were 11-1, I’d be pretty damn happy.

That means we all watched a lot of good football for many Saturdays.

 

[ulukinatme]

Why did this need to be a thread?

I remember where we were. I know where we are now. Most teams can't compete with Alabama or Clemson. When you're consistently averaging the #12-15th recruiting class (And you hamstring your recruiting pool with admissions and other self inflicted roadblocks) you can't expect to win every game against the football factories or even 50%. You're going to lose more often than not when the other team has advantages you don't. Be realistic, but that also means the sky isn't falling. We're a good team.

 

[Greenore]

Too funny! My phone has been going non-stop since the game ended.

I think your reply really mirrors my own experience. I didn't go to ND but attended University in Alberta. For reasons I can only try to explain, I feel much closer to ND than my alma mater.

ND is a community that, in my opinion, is based on faith and excellence. I really got to experience the "community" aspect in 2015 when I was blessed to attend the USC game with some like-minded friends. The experience transcended "just a football game" and was elevated by the history, fellowship, tradition and spirit of the campus.

I'm likely older than most posters so you will have to forgive me if I am set in my ways. I am somewhat flexible (maybe reasonable) on some change but for the most part, I am very appreciative and proud of ND, the student body, the academics and the athletics. I think they are doing it right.

Given their challenges in accepting student athletes who do not meet academic requirements, I think our teams have performed extraordinarily. When I hear of an ND athlete graduating with a meaningful degree, I am happier than if they had a pick 6 or KO return for a TD. To be committed to both their course loads and their athletic schedules, and perform at the levels they do is quite an accomplishment.

I am a Kool-Aid drinker. I don't expect to win a Natty every year or every five years or every ten years but like all fans, I hope. A little prayer to Our Lady doesn't hurt either. Our kids have character, they are intelligent and work hard. At some point I believe they will be rewarded both on and off the field.

We haven't won a Natty but we have won on a lot of Saturdays the past ten years. I cannot imagine all the fun and laughs we have had. CBK wants to win and I think we can. But if we can't compete without dropping to the recruiting standards of the so-called football factories, I'm okay with that. Your mileage might vary and that's okay too. It's good to have these discussions.

Trooper, I just got a phone call from my DOCTOR to see if I was okay... I kid you not! Isn't life grand.

Not a good game today and it reminded me a bit of our earlier game against Louisville which made me sad. Players have had plenty of distractions over the past several weeks so hopefully we get it out of our systems for the next game.

Cheers and Go Irish!!

 

[UPMich_NDfan]

Honest question, do Bama, Clemson cheat?! Or are they just that hot of a brand to be consistently in the top 3 for this long of a run?!

 

[Junkhead]

Honest question, do Bama, Clemson cheat?! Or are they just that hot of a brand to be consistently in the top 3 for this long of a run?!

I don't have any idea if they cheat, but damn if their respective runs aren't going on a long time, bama especially. How about retiring Saban?

 

[NorthDakota]

I don't have any idea if they cheat, but damn if their respective runs aren't going on a long time, bama especially. How about retiring Saban?

I dont think Alabama cheats. That is a blueblood brand with the best coach in football.

Clemson though... they cheat. I'm 100% confident that is the case.

 

[Wingman Ray]

Honest question, do Bama, Clemson cheat?! Or are they just that hot of a brand to be consistently in the top 3 for this long of a run?!

Think it is a combo of a lot of things

1) Southern recruiting by nature. Sorry folks, HS football in the south is just way better than in the north. Kids live it year around, every year.

2) Great HCs with great staffs. Saban obviously knows his stuff since his coordinators today become HCs at big time programs tomorrow. Meyer was the same way. Everywhere he went he struck gold.

3) A school that isnt a cakewalk to be at. ND is the very much odd man out in the discussion of AL/Clem/OSU/GA/USC/ND/LSU

 

[NDRock]

I dont think Alabama cheats. That is a blueblood brand with the best coach in football.

Clemson though... they cheat. I'm 100% confident that is the case.

I’m sure they’re all juicing. Our guys are as well probably.

 

[Wingman Ray]

I’m sure they’re all juicing. Our guys are as well probably.

All D1 CFB juices my friend. Anyone saying otherwise is not in reality.

People think you stick a needle in your ass and you become Arnold. Not true at all. A lot of players use different roids to maintain during the seasons when their bodies are not getting rest and are constantly strained.

Twenty dive years ago I remember a 2nd string Safety for the Chicago Bears talking about how everyone does it to be remotely competitive. Where natural ability just isnt enough in a sea of ability freaks. That was twenty five years ago.

Todays lineman are 315 lbs. The LBs are 245 running 4.8s. WRs are 220.

Cmon folks.

 

[NDRock]

All D1 CFB juices my friend. Anyone saying otherwise is not in reality.

People think you stick a needle in your ass and you become Arnold. Not true at all. A lot of players use different roids to maintain during the seasons when their bodies are not getting rest and are constantly strained.

Twenty dive years ago I remember a 2nd string Safety for the Chicago Bears talking about how everyone does it to be remotely competitive. Where natural ability just isnt enough in a sea of ability freaks. That was twenty five years ago.

Todays lineman are 315 lbs. The LBs are 245 running 4.8s. WRs are 220.

Cmon folks.

Pretty much every top athlete in sports is on something.

 

[UPMich_NDfan]

I’m sure they’re all juicing. Our guys are as well probably.

I’m more so asking are they 💵💵💵 paying their recruits?

I know for a fact it’s happening in basketball...but in basketball it’s such a smaller amount you have to pay. Looking at the sheer amount of top tier recruits Bama, Clemson, even OSU get...are they really paying all these guys?

Is that the difference?

 

[NDRock]

I’m more so asking are they 💵💵💵 paying their recruits?

I know for a fact it’s happening in basketball...but in basketball it’s such a smaller amount you have to pay. Looking at the sheer amount of top tier recruits Bama, Clemson, even OSU get...are they really paying all these guys?

Is that the difference?

I’m sure boosters give these kids money, even at ND. My boss’ brother was a big time recruit and went to Ole Miss. in the 80’s. Rich guys were always giving him money after games. As far as paying players to come, I bet it happens at the wannabes more (Ole Miss under Freeze for instance). Don’t think Saban has to as everyone seems to leave there and make money in the NFL.

 

[hungryhippo]

I’m more so asking are they 💵💵💵 paying their recruits?

I know for a fact it’s happening in basketball...but in basketball it’s such a smaller amount you have to pay. Looking at the sheer amount of top tier recruits Bama, Clemson, even OSU get...are they really paying all these guys?

Is that the difference?

It certainly still happens in the South. You'd get a wide variety of opinions about how prevalent it is.

Part of LSU's current self-imposed bowl ban is from a booster giving an OL's father a no-show job (Vadal Alexander 2012-15); on draft day a few years back Laremy Tunsil admitted he was paid at Ole Miss (I actually knew about this while he was at Ole Miss bc I was writing a book on SEC culture and a Florida writer told me it was an open secret when Tunsil was in HS in FL, and all the FL schools knew it too and kinda backed off him in recruiting).

Girl I knew at OSU with Carlos Hyde said he flat out asked "Which one of yall wants to write my (whatever class) papers this semester?" (Much like Cardale, word is he wasn't there to play school)

So, yeah, I know a handful of stories, a handful more are a matter of public record. How many more are out there probably depends on who you ask.

 

[hungryhippo]

As far as paying players to come, I bet it happens at the wannabes more (Ole Miss under Freeze for instance). Don’t think Saban has to as everyone seems to leave there and make money in the NFL.

Southern fans, across the SEC, had this POV most often.

Second most common POV is it's happening everywhere but at my school lol.

 

[Ndaccountant]

You’re right....so again I aka what is the point?! What do we as Irish fans have to look forward to anymore? I’ve been an Irish fan since 92 and in my whole lifetime we have had one legit elite team, some fools gold, and many mediocre teams that our fandom blinders led us to believe actually were worth more than what they are. Ohio State fans are laughing at us right now. Alabama fans are laughing at us right now. There’s non relief in sight other than next year after we get killed getting to say “we beat some other team in the whatever bowl y’all” I just feel like I’ve reached my breaking point. If a championship won’t ever happen then what really is the point?

FFS. Really? Nd is not OSU or Clemson or Bama. But is clearly atop the next best. Sure that doesn't win a natty. But considering where this program has been for the last 25 years, I will take. Walk before run and all that.

 

[NDFAN420]

The let’s start cheating! I don’t know what playing this morale high horse game has won us but it’s not as much as them.

I'd say most people don't even consider it "cheating" anymore. I say we take the Tony Rice's and Chris Zorich's that we refuse to take now because we're too sanctimonious. ND can only be that way, as selective a university as its BECOME b/c it wasn't always that way, because of the world class football team. Time to give back.

 

[Irish2155]

This season is not over. We’ll rest up today and start prepping for Bama tomorrow.

 

[Sea Turtle]

This season is not over. We’ll rest up today and start prepping for Bama tomorrow.

Sounds fun

https://images.app.goo.gl/ok8j7d4Tmd3CfgTy7