Situation in Syria

[LoveThee]

The community here at IE is very enlightened and I quite like the perspective people bring here. I am surprised there hasn't already been a thread on this topic considering the implications of it. So, this thread's purpose is to discuss the current state of events taking place in Syria and thoughts as to what our involvement should be.

I apologize if this thread has already been made and closed, if so feel free to delete...

China Warns Against Syria Intervention

 

[Junkhead]

I admit to not looking into the Syria situation too deeply, but it really seems like a bad idea to get involved right now. Afghanistan, Iraq, Syria, Iran?, North Korea? Why do us taxpayers have to support the world police?

 

[LoveThee]

Not to mention China saying there would be hell to pay... Don't want to **** them off. I'm admittedly pretty ignorant on politics, but I don't see any rational as to why it would be a good idea to get involved.

 

[Kanye West]

I don't think any sensible being actually think its a good idea to go in. But lead it to our government to go do it. sigh... When will we learn that fighting other's wars isn't a good idea. Vietnam? Nah. Iraq? Nah. Syria? I hope we never go in.

 

[Mr. McGibblets]

Maybe China can place one of their Carriers off the coast of Syria.

 

[Junkhead]

Aren't there enough problems here? I hate politics, but how many wars can we afford to fight? Not to mention the troops and their families that have to put up with it.

 

[Kanye West]

Using chemical weapons is a bad reason to interfere in a civil war, that has major world significance. 100,000 people died with regular weapons, but the 500 justifies those means?

 

[irishff1014]

We need to turn our back to this. We really can't afford this nor will it look good on this country. They have always been fighting over there and always will. This is terrible to say but as long as they are killing our people or our allies people we need to stay far far away from this.

 

[phillyirish]

I doubt the US will go full out and invade but a limited intervention with providing air superiority would probably be enough for the rebels to win and topple the government. The only risk is for a more extreme government or even worse indefinite instability lingering for years.

 

[m-araim]

I remember their was an irish Syria something posting on this site, if he/she is still in Syria I hope doing fine. if possible I like to hear from him.

 

[Irish Insanity]

http://www.irishenvy.com/forums/members/irishinsyria.html

Looks like its been 2 months to the day since he's last been on.

 

[GATTACA!]

At this point i dont really see any upside to getting involved in this situation. The reason that we will probably have some involvement is because president obama made a hard line threat against the syrian governments use of chemical weapons. He will likely want to stick to his word.

My guess would be a few days our even hours of missile strikes. Targeting the major air strips to limit the governments ability to use air strikes on their own people. Multiple sources have corroborated the theory that we will be unable to destroy the stockpiles of chemical weapons without further contamination.

My problem with this is not the idea of starting another war, because i honestly dont feel it will turn into that type of conflict. My problem is the precedent it sets. The idea that the united states is the moral compass for all other countries, and will punish actions we dont agree with with military force. As far as i can tell the united states is in no direct danger from the syrian government.

 

[Rhode Irish]

I just have to point something out without jumping into the war-or-no-war debate. I saw a story tonight that Assad's 12 year old son made a facebook post daring the U.S. to attack Syria. Which...OK. Pretty strange, but a sign of the time, I guess?

But the article ponders whether the post is real or fake (again, a sign of the times and a legit query). As part of the evidence that the post is real, they link to the facebook profiles of two people who liked the post. Apparently, these are kids of the Syrian Deputy Vice President. Please, go look at these profiles!

Look at the pictures. What in the world is going on? Look at how....Western they are. The girl (attractive, BTW) is the fashionista type I feel like I know from college. The boy looks like he eats 4 or 5 happy meals a week. In his profile picture, the boy is wearing a shirt that says "NEW YORK" and "lower east side" on it. The girl's pictures go back and forth between militant propaganda and cute-girl-doing-cute-things. Honestly, it is mind blowing. This is not the picture I have in my head of the people behind the images that I am seeing on my TV every night.

 

[Rhode Irish]

And think of the cognitive dissonance at play to like the post daring America to attack you while you are wearing a "NEW YORK CITY" t-shirt in your profile. Do you think the kid even knows that New York is in the U.S.?

 

[phork]

I'm thinking just carpet bomb the entire mideast and turn it into a glass parking lot with a shiny walmart near Iraq or Iran that has blue light specials on oil.

I think its humorous that these terrorists continue to point fingers at the west when their very people would gas women and children. Punks.

 

[GATTACA!]

I'm thinking just carpet bomb the entire mideast and turn it into a glass parking lot

It's sad that that's honestly the only option for a sustainable solution.

 

[ulukinatme]

I've got a buddy that's a tank commander. He told me a few weeks ago that they were getting prepared to go to Syria. That doesn't mean of course that we're definitely going, but the Army is already ready if the word is given. I hope it doesn't come to that though. I'm not sure war is a good idea when the economy is struggling as it is.

 

[Andy in Sactown]

Maybe China can place one of their Carriers off the coast of Syria.

Article from today on economic times: China to build more aircraft carriers apart from 'Liaoning' - The Economic Times

Also, http://www.jeffhead.com/worldwideaircraftcarriers/varyag.htm is a good reference.

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/RxriKrEGnwQ" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

As a side note, if they wanted to deploy their one active aircraft carrier off the coast of Syria, she'd have to get underway from her berthing at Dazhu Shan on China's east coast and sail 15,772 nautical miles (thank you, google earth). At her reported top speed of 32 knots (probably a little faster, but going that speed 100% of the time isn't always feasible, so we'll roll with that) it would take her 492.875 hours to be on station (just a smidge over 20 and a half days).

The circumference of the earth at the equatorial bulge is 24840 nautical miles. So yeah, they're about as far away from the coast of Syria as any other place on the planet.

For comparison, we already have a carrier group in the med right now, not to speak of our other land based assets out of Turkey, etc. And that's not even counting NATO allied forces.

EDIT: I can't speak to the other branches of the U.S. Military, but if there are ever any naval questions on the board, as a sailor myself, I'm pretty "plugged in" to the fleet and naval topics in general and would be happy to oblige.

 

[Jason Pham]

From the perspective of realist theories of international relations (which argues that state actions are fundamentally influenced by the balance of power among states), the most powerful states have a strong interest in maintaining the status quo because the status quo maintains their position near the top.

If the U.S. involves itself in Syria, at least from the realist perspective, it would be a rational response to American interests in maintaining the stability of the Middle East, not just to maintain our influence in the Middle East but also to maintain a reliability in our access to certain resources therein.

Now just because a state acts rationally (acting based on its interests) does not preclude it from miscalculating the costs and benefits of any of its actions (e.g., any of the European nations invading Russia), but all of the above is just to demonstrate a rationale behind intervention.

 

[PLACforever]

I've got a buddy that's a tank commander. He told me a few weeks ago that they were getting prepared to go to Syria. That doesn't mean of course that we're definitely going, but the Army is already ready if the word is given. I hope it doesn't come to that though. I'm not sure war is a good idea when the economy is struggling as it is.

Point of reference, WWII was one of the larger factors that brought an end to the Great Depression (the economic one, not to be confused with my name for this offseason)

 

[dublinirish]

well the UK has said No so it will be up to the US to find a coalition partner (if they even need one) for their attack on Asad

This echoes back to the Invasion of Iraq when Blair went ahead with it despite not seeing any evidence of WMD's. UK parliament eager not to see a repeat of this.

 

[PLACforever]

I hope our country is getting its Frequent War Club Card punched because if it is this next one with Syria should be free.

(stolen from some guy's twitter but I don't know how to post the original from this iPad)

 

[Andy in Sactown]

I hope we do not have to intervene.

 

[dublinirish]

Looks like France is ready to go:
BBC News - France's Hollande backs US on Syria action

 

[irish1958]

What troubles me is that the Assad's government had nothing to gain from the use of chemical weapons on civilians. The insurgents, however, have everything to gain and nothing to loose.
Another thing that troubles me is that the Assad government has had a policy of defending the Christian minority where as many of the insurgent factions had a severe policy of anti-Christian and anti-Jewish suppression and outright persecution.
We face the exact same problem in Egypt and actually in the entire region.
The governments are bad but the insurgents are much worse.
Any intervention appears wrong for our interests.
As for the "democratically " elected governments; remember the Nazis were democratically elected in Germany and the Hitler regime had the support of the population. Not every "democratically" elected government is wonderful.

 

[rikkitikki08]

Im a firm believer in if we get hit we have the right to hit back, with that being said im not sure where i stand on syria. One part of me thinks we should go and help those innocent people who really got involved in a fight they have no place being caught in the middle of, America should stand up for innocent people and use our resources to help others. While the other part of me believes we have no dog in this fight and should stay out of it and worry about our people. I see both sides of the fence when it comes to this incident and argument

 

[woolybug25]

**WARNING: GRAPHIC**
Syria: Napalm-Like Burns After School Attack

Looks like Syria dropped a chemical bomb on a school today.

This scares me frankly. I find it more than a coincidence that immedietely after China/Russia walk out on UN debate on Syria, that Syria would use a chemical attack again. On all things, a school filled with kids.

I remember in junior high I told a kid that was getting picked on that if the bully did it again, I would help him. When the bully showed up, the normally reserved geek walked up to him and pushed him.

Why do I feel like Syria is poking us with a stick?

 

[rikkitikki08]

Like i said America as a country has an obligation to defend civiliians due to our large amount of resources. Killing kids in a school is not ok by any standards. Does rolling into Syria make me nervous? Yes, Do i think we should allow this to continue? Absolutely not

 

[LoveThee]

Like i said America as a country has an obligation to defend civiliians due to our large amount of resources. Killing kids in a school is not ok by any standards. Does rolling into Syria make me nervous? Yes, Do i think we should allow this to continue? Absolutely not

Don't we have enough of our own problems? Where did we sign on to be world police? Isn't that more the United Nations role?

 

[rikkitikki08]

Don't we have enough of our own problems? Where did we sign on to be world police? Isn't that more the United Nations role?

Im not disagreeing with this by any means. Im just saying as a country we should not sit back and watch a country gas children. And lets be honest these "problems" you say we have in this country would get you laughed at in countries like Syria. We do indeed have problems but lets not compare it to what those people have to go through on a day to day basis