Should BVG Be Fired?

[IrishinSyria]

We can all argue scheme this and that until we are all blue in the face. But when you really break it down into the fundamentals of the game on the defensive side of the ball, notre dame has consistently struggled or flat out failed. Tackling, getting nasty and getting a stop when needed, and just plain coming out and performing on a consistent basis at a high level. I completely understand and agree that some players turn out to be not as good as advertised or they struggle in some other aspect of the transition into college which hinders their development on the field. And in that aspect is where I think notre dame fails and always will. However it seems that the defensive players since bvg came to notre dame, seem to be failing or not developing more frequently. That is bvg's fault and he should be held accountable. The same shit that Weis said "we are going to be far superior with the X's and O's than any team out here" is the same damn thing van gorder is doing and it just isn't true! Bvg is not doing his job, he is not developing these student athletes into good football players. It isn't his job to make sure these kids go to class, that falls ultimately on bk. His sole focus is developing a strong defensive scheme and teaching it to the players.

Notre dame will continue to not develop players on the football field like other schools because they want the players to focus on academics first. If the freshman are struggling to adapt to college life and class, then their football suffers, as it should. Other schools say, screw the academics, we will get that worked out for you, focus on football. That is the ultimate problem.

TBH, I thought our tackling was better than it had been in years, 2012 being the only exception. Not great, but that part of the defense didn't bother me. It was blown coverages more than anything that killed us.

Yesterday didn't bother me much, frustrating as it was. Once Ohio State pulled their collective heads out of their asses after the loss against Sparty, they were the best team in CFB this year, and I don't think it's even that close. Our back-ups were outmatched, and despite the one big elliot run where he hit the hole in our stunt, I don't think scheme had that much to do with it.

 

[kmoose]

I do think his unwillingness to get younger guys more PT is a fair criticism. I was fine with guys like Schmidt starting and getting a majority of reps but you've got to find at least a couple of series a game for the younger guys. We're not talking about taking out Our All-Americans at crucial times. It may also help with some of the injuries we have seen at the end of the year the last couple of years. Guys may be getting worn down.

I saw a lot of guys getting reps on the D Line, though.

Okwara, Day, Cage, and Rochelle were basically your starters.

Blankenship (Soph) played in 3 games.
Bonner (Soph) played in 10 games.
Matuska (Junior) played in 1 game.
Mokwuah (Soph) played in 2 games.
Tillery (Fresh) played in 12 games.

Bonner and Tillery got plenty of time, so there doesn't seem to be any class related block to earning PT. I would say that the other guys just didn't earn enough.

 

[Luckylucci]

44 Points scored by Ohio State, the most ever against Notre Dame in the 35 bowl games it has played. The previous mark was Alabama’s 42-14-victory in the 2013 BCS Championship.

His defenses have broken a lot of records, just not the ones that win games, lol. I'm convinced he's not the answer and needs to go. However, I wouldn't do it right now. I'd wait until we sign this class first. I think it was Lax that first brought this name up but Dave Aranda is the name I'd really like to see us to after.

 

[IrishinSyria]

How about the context that the Buckeyes gave up 1.5 sacks per game this season?

So tell me again how 1 sack is such a great stat?

Tough to extrapolate anything from this Ohio State's team regular season. They played way below their talent level for the first two months of the season.

 

[kmoose]

Tough to extrapolate anything from this Ohio State's team regular season. They played way below their talent level for the first two months of the season.

The argument could just as easily be made that they overachieved at the end of the season.

 

[IrishinSyria]

The argument could just as easily be made that they overachieved at the end of the season.

You could make it, but not many people would agree. Based on the national championship winning talent they were bringing back, they were the consensus #1 team before the season started. They spent most of the year sorting out their QB situation. They're loaded with great NFL prospects, etc...

If Ohio State were playing Bama, the line would be even. That's not true for any other team in the country. They're as stacked as it gets.

 

[kmoose]

You could make it, but not many people would agree. Based on the national championship winning talent they were bringing back, they were the consensus #1 team before the season started. They spent most of the year sorting out their QB situation. They're loaded with great NFL prospects, etc...

If Ohio State were playing Bama, the line would be even. That's not true for any other team in the country. They're as stacked as it gets.

I don't disagree with that. But that's not the debate. The debate was about whether or not Trumbetti's numbers yesterday were just another indication that VanGorder is incompetent.

 

[dkuhn12]

I don't care who it is next year, just simplify the scheme so we can get a little more depth on the field and STOP dropping our d line into coverage!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[magyarirish]

First time posting on this site. 55 years old, 44 years of it as an Irish fan.
We had the same problem yesterday that we have had since Lou Holtz left. Not ready to play when it's a big game. Who remembers that wonderful championship game against Bama. Same look on our face yesterday. Offense scared they were gonna make a mistake and defense not knowing what to do.
We've had some good coaches but it takes more then that. Especially for the Irish. We have to do it without a lot of those big uglys the top teams get because of our academic requirements eliminate the ones that can't spell their name or count to 10 without taking off their shoes.
Personnel aside. Saban, Sweeny, Shaw, they all had their boys ready to play as soon as their feet touched the turf. Kelly just can't do that. Wish I knew why but, he can't. Until we find that guy that can have every player on the razors edge as soon as he steps on the field, this will be our plight.
Don't know the answer. Still baffled that we have to ask the question.
Go Irish!

 

[GATTACA!]

First time posting on this site. 55 years old, 44 years of it as an Irish fan.
We had the same problem yesterday that we have had since Lou Holtz left. Not ready to play when it's a big game. Who remembers that wonderful championship game against Bama. Same look on our face yesterday. Offense scared they were gonna make a mistake and defense not knowing what to do.
We've had some good coaches but it takes more then that. Especially for the Irish. We have to do it without a lot of those big uglys the top teams get because of our academic requirements eliminate the ones that can't spell their name or count to 10 without taking off their shoes.
Personnel aside. Saban, Sweeny, Shaw, they all had their boys ready to play as soon as their feet touched the turf. Kelly just can't do that. Wish I knew why but, he can't. Until we find that guy that can have every player on the razors edge as soon as he steps on the field, this will be our plight.
Don't know the answer. Still baffled that we have to ask the question.
Go Irish!

Good stuff. Welcome to IE.

 

[GoIrish41]

First time posting on this site. 55 years old, 44 years of it as an Irish fan.
We had the same problem yesterday that we have had since Lou Holtz left. Not ready to play when it's a big game. Who remembers that wonderful championship game against Bama. Same look on our face yesterday. Offense scared they were gonna make a mistake and defense not knowing what to do.
We've had some good coaches but it takes more then that. Especially for the Irish. We have to do it without a lot of those big uglys the top teams get because of our academic requirements eliminate the ones that can't spell their name or count to 10 without taking off their shoes.
Personnel aside. Saban, Sweeny, Shaw, they all had their boys ready to play as soon as their feet touched the turf. Kelly just can't do that. Wish I knew why but, he can't. Until we find that guy that can have every player on the razors edge as soon as he steps on the field, this will be our plight.
Don't know the answer. Still baffled that we have to ask the question.
Go Irish!

Good first post!

 

[TDHeysus]

I voted No, however my 'allegiance to BVG' has come into question, somewhat.

Watching the Showtime series, one thing that jumped out for me was BVG's coaching. Before I had 'no idea what he did day-to-day' but after seeing the series I thought he was very effective in the way he handled meetings, players, on-field coaching in practice.........conspicuously, I don't recall much 'in-game' footage of BVG, but I digress.

Ppl are so quick to want to fire a coach, I find it frustrating. The fact there are some ppl that are questioning BK, the active wins leader in all of CFB, is asinine. When SC fired Sark, Brian Kellys was floated out there, and no one nationally laughed at that*. I call the 'fire BK' thread the 'Misery loves company' thread. Not everything is solved by 'firing the coach', period.

*ppl talked about the USC-ND stuff, but NO ONE scoffed at BK's ability to coach, or whether or not he was qualified

Just as some are quick to want to fire to the coach, some are just as quick to dismiss the injuries that have plagued this team, especially defensively. Take last year, the injuries were significant, so much so that I thought 'this is an anomaly, teams don't typically get decimated like this'. Now look at this year, holy shit. First off, I love the players I do, and I don't place blame on them, nor do I hold resentment towards them...but god damn that secondary that was in the fiesta bowl was a fucking joke. 3rd and 4th string dudes, who were not ready to play, overwhelmed and overmatched. Urban Liar knew this as well, and he went right at them. Give me the best defensive coach that has ever walked on this earth and only so much can be done.

If you show me a coach that can make Jarret Grace (another player I got love for, and tons of respect) play like Jaylon Smith, then yeah I'd say, yeah fire BVG and get me that coach.

In my opinion, if you cannot acknowledge the significant impact of defensive injuries on this team, and you are still calling for BVG to be fired. Then I offer this:

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/UhfiWXTBPWU" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

 

[Luckylucci]

I voted as "undecided" because I really value continuity, and the defense was actually okay except for the turnovers and sacks categories.

The defense should take a [big] step forward next year because:
-another year in the system will be good in general
-the unit should be healthier than it was this year
-there will be better athletes at nearly every open position, with the exception of Jaylon's spot
-the three above should result in improvement in terms of generating turnovers
-the defense may need to be "dumbed down" due to the loss of Joe Schmidt, which should help let these guys fly around more efficiently

The reason I'm undecided, though, is because of the way Trumbetti straight balled out when he got an extended look. He was one of maybe three defenders that looked like they belonged on the field against OSU. Dude kept our defense alive nearly on his own late in the game, when ND was still within relative striking defense. WHY IN THE HELL HASN'T HE BEEN PLAYING MORE? And for that matter, it just provided more evidence that things might be *okay* if BVG would quit being such a twat about his system and let some young guys get reps in a rotation, rather than sticking with the anti-rotation policy.

It is mind-bottling.

Reps for using the word Twat for describing BVG!

 

[IrishinSyria]

I voted No, however my 'allegiance to BVG' has come into question, somewhat.

Watching the Showtime series, one thing that jumped out for me was BVG's coaching. Before I had 'no idea what he did day-to-day' but after seeing the series I thought he was very effective in the way he handled meetings, players, on-field coaching in practice.........conspicuously, I don't recall much 'in-game' footage of BVG, but I digress.

Ppl are so quick to want to fire a coach, I find it frustrating. The fact there are some ppl that are questioning BK, the active wins leader in all of CFB, is asinine. When SC fired Sark, Brian Kellys was floated out there, and no one nationally laughed at that*. I call the 'fire BK' thread the 'Misery loves company' thread. Not everything is solved by 'firing the coach', period.

*ppl talked about the USC-ND stuff, but NO ONE scoffed at BK's ability to coach, or whether or not he was qualified

Just as some are quick to want to fire to the coach, some are just as quick to dismiss the injuries that have plagued this team, especially defensively. Take last year, the injuries were significant, so much so that I thought 'this is an anomaly, teams don't typically get decimated like this'. Now look at this year, holy shit. First off, I love the players I do, and I don't place blame on them, nor do I hold resentment towards them...but god damn that secondary that was in the fiesta bowl was a fucking joke. 3rd and 4th string dudes, who were not ready to play, overwhelmed and overmatched. Urban Liar knew this as well, and he went right at them. Give me the best defensive coach that has ever walked on this earth and only so much can be done.

If you show me a coach that can make Jarret Grace (another player I got love for, and tons of respect) play like Jaylon Smith, then yeah I'd say, yeah fire BVG and get me that coach.

In my opinion, if you cannot acknowledge the significant impact of defensive injuries on this team, and you are still calling for BVG to be fired. Then I offer this:

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/UhfiWXTBPWU" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Good post. If our D doesn't show signs of significant improvement next year, I might reconsider.

 

[Luckylucci]

Trumbetti is the best athlete we have at DE on the roster, he definitely should've been in the field more with the lack of pass rush we were able to get at times. Rochell should've been put inside more and bring Trumbetti in. No brainer for me.

 

[irishff1014]

His defenses have broken a lot of records, just not the ones that win games, lol. I'm convinced he's not the answer and needs to go. However, I wouldn't do it right now. I'd wait until we sign this class first. I think it was Lax that first brought this name up but Dave Aranda is the name I'd really like to see us to after.

Do you think that matters Lucci? He hasn't been a huge impact in the recruiting world. We will have Denson who is probably going to be our best recruiter, Gilmore and Lyght also doing good jobs on the recruiting front.

 

[Luckylucci]

Do you think that matters Lucci? He hasn't been a huge impact in the recruiting world. We will have Denson who is probably going to be our best recruiter, Gilmore and Lyght also doing good jobs on the recruiting front.

I don't know but I don't see the need to rush the decision before then anyways so why not wait.

 

[nd1989]

Just a few comments:
- I think the issue isn't BVG so much as a defensive philosophy. This defense seems to rely on thinking and athleticism. Under Diaco, it seemed to rely on position and gaps. In Diacos system the players seemed to know their role better. I think the defense needs to get simpler.

- Lyght might be good recruiter, but he's got a lot to learn as a coach. The secondary lacks fundamentals in both pass coverage and tackling. Butler, Cole, and Russell were poor tacklers. Coke had the best pass fundas.

- LBs in general are weak. Jaylon covered up a lot of errors. Maybe this goes back to the simplicity point. Same goes for Safeties.

 

[GATTACA!]

Just a few comments:
- I think the issue isn't BVG so much as a defensive philosophy. This defense seems to rely on thinking and athleticism. Under Diaco, it seemed to rely on position and gaps. In Diacos system the players seemed to know their role better. I think the defense needs to get simpler.

- Lyght might be good recruiter, but he's got a lot to learn as a coach. The secondary lacks fundamentals in both pass coverage and tackling. Butler, Cole, and Russell were poor tacklers. Coke had the best pass fundas.

- LBs in general are weak. Jaylon covered up a lot of errors. Maybe this goes back to the simplicity point. Same goes for Safeties.

How is that all not BVG's fault? Those are all his responsibilities.

 

[irishff1014]

I don't know but I don't see the need to rush the decision before then anyways so why not wait.

I understand that. I could see it looking bad for kelly if he made a quick decision as compared to waiting a few weeks. I think Kelly is to loyal to his guys so unless BVG gets a better offer he will be at ND.

 

[Nothingman]

I think it was Lax that first brought this name up but Dave Aranda is the name I'd really like to see us to after.

Apologies if this is already common knowledge, but apparently he has accepted the DC position at LSU.

LSU job too good to turn down for Badgers coordinator Dave Aranda - Big Ten Blog- ESPN

 

[nd1989]

How is that all not BVG's fault? Those are all his responsibilities.

Maybe I wasn't clear. It is BVGs fault, it's his scheme doesn't work in college. Maybe he can change the scheme.

 

[anarin]

So it's safe to say BVG is coaching for his job next season? Since 75% of you fired him already. Lol

 

[ulukinatme]

Remember when we wanted to get rid of diaco.

I've got news for ya, Diaco's defense requires you to have a stout NT and a light's out MLB to be effective. We were struggling to bring in bodies for both positions, and combined with injuries we would have just as much trouble stopping anybody if Bob was still here. That said, BVG is definitely on the hot seat I would imagine, injuries or no. He deserves at least one more season imo. Our defense is always respectable in September when we have most of our players, it collapses towards the end of the season as the injuries have mounted.

 

[Luckylucci]

Apologies if this is already common knowledge, but apparently he has accepted the DC position at LSU.

LSU job too good to turn down for Badgers coordinator Dave Aranda - Big Ten Blog- ESPN

Hadn't seen that, thanks. Good hire and a bummer

 

[Irish_I_HadHair]

BVG is the college equivalent to Rob Ryan. All you hear about is how great and complicated his schemes are yet the results are rarely there.

Amen!

Look-at-how-smart-I-am, reckless coaching. And the luster has worn off Rex Ryan's defensive "genius" the last two years, too, in addition to his poor head coaching.

 

[Luckylucci]

I've got news for ya, Diaco's defense requires you to have a stout NT and a light's out MLB to be effective. We were struggling to bring in bodies for both positions, and combined with injuries we would have just as much trouble stopping anybody if Bob was still here. That said, BVG is definitely on the hot seat I would imagine, injuries or no. He deserves at least one more season imo. Our defense is always respectable in September when we have most of our players, it collapses towards the end of the season as the injuries have mounted.

See I disagree that we don't have the players to do it. Jarron Jones, Cage, and Tillery could all play 3-4 NT. Rochell was recruited for it, so was Trumbetti, Romeo, Gace, Jaylon and just about everybody that plays on defense. They are all Diaco players.

 

[IrishinSyria]

So it's safe to say BVG is coaching for his job next season? Since 75% of you fired him already. Lol

I think he probably is, but there's only one person whose opinion really matters.

 

[IrishLax]

For all the BVG hate, the bowl game isn't what makes the case for a change. The first half was VERY bad but after losing Smith and Coney + not having enough DBs to play nickel + being bet up on the DL I don't know what people expect. When Ohio State doesn't intentionally sabotage themselves, they have arguably the best offense in the entire country... and w were stuck with asking Jarret Grace to run with slot WRs.

Stanford loss? Good case for making a change at DC. End of the game is inexcusable. Many other obvious issues? Sure. But I don't buy that the bowl game was anything other than exactly what should've been expected. Michigan had a GREAT defense this year and gave up 42 to Ohio State at home while perfectly healthy.

But you could've had Smart or Pruitt or Chavis or anyone coordinating the defense for that game and I can't conceive of a way Ohio State gets held below 35 points. The personnel was simply not good enough, and that's equal parts Diaco, Cooks, and bad luck.

 

[IrishLax]

As for Aranda, the reason he went to LSU and not USC or elsewhere is:
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Dave Aranda getting a 3-YR deal from <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/LSU?src=hash">#LSU</a>, starting at $1.3 MILLION a year & it escalates, source tells <a href="https://twitter.com/FOXSports">@FoxSports</a>: <a href="https://t.co/I7yBH7qgRn">https://t.co/I7yBH7qgRn</a></p>— Bruce Feldman (@BruceFeldmanCFB) <a href="https://twitter.com/BruceFeldmanCFB/status/683433084524478464">January 2, 2016</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

That's a lot of freaking money to pay a coordinator.