SEC Scheduling

[dublinirish]

What really happened between Hugh Freeze, Alabama and the SEC | AL.com

Alabama was one of at least five SEC schools that had contact with Freeze about on-field jobs this offseason. Saban wanted to hire Freeze as a co-offensive coordinator and position coach, sources told AL.com.

However, SEC commissioner Greg Sankey encouraged Alabama not to hire a man as well known for the personal shortcomings that led to his Ole Miss resignation as he is for his success as a coach.

It's the primary reason why Saban, the highest-paid and most powerful coach in college football, couldn't add Freeze to his staff this offseason, according to multiple sources familiar with the situation who provided previously unreported details about Alabama's pursuit of the former Ole Miss head coach.

It was only a few days after Saban's mid-January meeting with Freeze that he learned he couldn't make the hire. Sankey informed both Freeze and Alabama that it would look bad for the SEC for Freeze to be back coaching in the league while Ole Miss suffered from NCAA penalties incurred under his watch. The SEC preferred that Freeze, who resigned in July following a "pattern of personal misconduct," go off the radar for at least a little while before trying to return to work at one of its schools.

 

[Legacy]

What really happened between Hugh Freeze, Alabama and the SEC | AL.com

Multiple SEC schools looked into hiring Freeze as their offensive coordinator, including LSU and Missouri, but no deal was ever reached primarily because of the league's opposition, according to sources. Freeze was publicly linked to the Missouri offensive coordinator position before Barry Odom hired former Tennessee head coach Derek Dooley.

While it seems implausible a coach as influential and successful as Saban couldn't get what he wanted, a nearly year-old SEC bylaw gives the league's commissioner additional oversight into schools' hiring practices. According to bylaw 19.8.1.2, a school must consult directly with Sankey before offering a job to a coach "who has engaged in unethical conduct as defined under NCAA Bylaws or who has participated in activity that resulted, or may result, in a Level I, Level II or major infraction."

I wonder if Jimmy Sexton gets his clients together annually to discuss how they could hire each other when their current college let's them go.

Others he represents
Hugh Freeze,
Derek Dooley, former Tenn head coach, hired by Missouri
Mike Locksley, promoted to co-OC at Alabama when Freeze was not
Butch Jones, former Tenn HC, hired onto Alabama's staff

I don't know if he represents Mike Elko or Josh Gattis. Sexton needs to get Sankey in his pocket.

 

[Legacy]

Using the NCAA method of SOS ranking based on opponents' won-lost record last year. Other SEC teams' SOS included.

Tennessee football: Weak non-conference opponents pull schedule rank to SEC bottom
https://www.seccountry.com/tennessee/tennessee-football-schedule-vols-opponents

The Vols play three of the worst teams in football with a combined W-L record in 2017 of 5-30 - E. Tenn St, UTEP and Charlotte. Charlotte moved to the FBS in 2015.

Tennessee is considered the number one richest SEC school by revenue in the nation's "most lucrative" conference.
Who are richest football programs in SEC? Here are revenue rankings from nation's most lucrative conference | PennLive.com

The SEC has a scheduling problem — but there’s a simple way to fix it
https://www.rockytoptalk.com/2018/5/7/17326852/college-football-sec-scheduling-tennessee-alabama

 

[Legacy]

SEC non-conferences schedules, 2018

SEC non-conferences schedules, 2018

Athlon rankings used.

SEC - almost similar to last year's in that every team (except Arkansas) plays one P5 team and one FCS school.
-- Note: Auburn plays Alabama State and Liberty. Liberty moved up from FCS to FBS as an Independent this year and was 6-5 in FCS last year. Athlon ranks Auburn's n-c schedule as the fifth toughest in the SEC, basically because of playing Washington. S. Miss is Auburn's fourth.

-- Four of the thirteen teams that play a P5 team fill that conference requirement with annual opponents from the ACC. (S. Carolina-@Clemson, Kentucky-@Louisville, Ga-G Tech, Fla-@FSU)
-- Five SEC teams fill their P5 opponent with a Neutral site game played in the South. All Neutral site games are atin the South. (Note: LSU plays a Neutral site game and against an ACC foe, Miami)
-- Four SEC teams play home and home games with teams outside the South - A&M with Clemson, Missouri with Purdue, Mississippi St with Kansas State. Those three games should be competitive.
-- One team (Vandy) is playing an away game (v. ND) without a corresponding home game.

Athlon's toughest SEC non-conference schedules without P5 and FCS games
1. South Carolina - Coastal Carolina (2nd yr in FBS), Marshall
2. A&M - UAB, La-Monroe
3. LSU - La Tech, Rice
4. Vandy - Middle Tenn, Nevada
5. Auburn - S. Miss, Liberty (1st yr FBS)
6. Florida - Colorado St, Rice
7. Mo - Wyoming, Memphis
8. Miss St - Louisiana, La-Monroe
9. Tenn - UTEP, NC Charlotte (3rd yr in FBS)
10. Alabama - Ark. St, La-Lafayette
11. Kentucky - Central Mich, Middle Tenn
12. Georgia - Middle Tenn, UMass
13. Ole Miss - Kent St, La-Monroe
14. Arkansas - Colo St, N. Texas, Tulsa (no P5 team)

All of these twenty-nine non-P5 except Ark-Colo St are at home and buy-in games. Every SEC team hasat least three non-conference games at home. A&M, Ark, Ga and Ole Miss have four.

 

[Sea Turtle]

Athlon rankings used.

SEC - almost similar to last year's in that every team (except Arkansas) plays one P5 team and one FCS school.
-- Note: Auburn plays Alabama State and Liberty. Liberty moved up from FCS to FBS as an Independent this year and was 6-5 in FCS last year. Athlon ranks Auburn's n-c schedule as the fifth toughest in the SEC, basically because of playing Washington. S. Miss is Auburn's fourth.

-- Four of the thirteen teams that play a P5 team fill that conference requirement with annual opponents from the ACC. (S. Carolina-@Clemson, Kentucky-@Louisville, Ga-G Tech, Fla-@FSU)
-- Five SEC teams fill their P5 opponent with a Neutral site game played in the South. All Neutral site games are atin the South. (Note: LSU plays a Neutral site game and against an ACC foe, Miami)
-- Four SEC teams play home and home games with teams outside the South - A&M with Clemson, Missouri with Purdue, Mississippi St with Kansas State. Those three games should be competitive.
-- One team (Vandy) is playing an away game (v. ND) without a corresponding home game.

Athlon's toughest SEC non-conference schedules without P5 and FCS games
1. South Carolina - Coastal Carolina, Marshall
2. A&M - UAB, La-Monroe
3. LSU - La Tech, Rice
4. Vandy - Middle Tenn, Nevada
5. Auburn - S. Miss, Liberty
6. Florida - Colorado St, Rice
7. Mo - Wyoming, Memphis
8. Miss St - Louisiana, La-Monroe
9. Tenn - UTEP, NC Charlotte
10. Alabama - Ark. St, La-Lafayette
11. Kentucky - Central Mich, Middle Tenn
12. Georgia - Middle Tenn, UMass
13. Ole Miss - Kent St, La-Monroe
14. Arkansas - Colo St, N. Texas, Tulsa (no P5 team)

All of these twenty-nine non-P5 except Ark-Colo St are at home and buy-in games. Every SEC team hasat least three non-conference games at home. A&M, Ark, Ga and Ole Miss have four.

Hmm, and they win most of the Natty's and have multiple teams in the playoffs. Maybe we should schedule like them?

 

[Legacy]

Hmm, and they win most of the Natty's and have multiple teams in the playoffs. Maybe we should schedule like them?

Only six of the fourteen SEC teams had less than six losses. (Alabama, Auburn, Georgia, LSU, S.Carolina and Miss St). Subtract their FCS games and only those six teams had winning records. (Kentucky, Missouri and A&M were 7-6 counting FCS wins)

The SEC teams were 19-20 against P5 teams (counting ND) including a bowl record of 4-5. So those six teams with less than six losses fattened up on the other eight mediocre to bad teams. Only the Pac 12 had a worse bowl record of the P5 conferences.

I doubt the SEC TV package is attractive to many outside the South. The ACC used to schedule similarly and also have an eight game conference schedule but have toughened there non-conference schedule up, especially with ND on six teams' games a year.

 

[drayer54]

They are scheduling some gems out of conference. Problem is all of the softies. I don't think it is THAT bad.

 

[Legacy]

Brian Fremeau's rankings are out - FEI Week 1 Ratings and Drive-Ending Value ND's FEI of .215 is sixth with a SOS of 1.15 (37th).

Alabama has a FEI ranked 1st with a SOS of 1.07.

The SEC West teams ranked were Auburn with a SOS of 2.09 (5th in FEI), Miss St (12th in FEI) with a SOS of 1.59, LSU (18th in FEI) with a SOS of 2.03 and A&M (26th FEI) with SOS of 2.18.

No question that those teams' SOS is impacted by Alabama. Despite Bama playing all those four teams their overall SOS is 46th, reflective of their non-conference games.


Notre Dame's opponents' SOS in the top 30 of FEI are Michigan (1.77), FSU (1.59), Stanford (1.49), (USC (1.18), Va Tech (1.05).

 

[irishtrain]

While ND schedules aggressively, they have their fair share of less than stellar opponents as well. That's why last year was such a disappointment. The Irish schedule outside of Stanford and USC was littered with average teams.

I'm going to disagree Alabama would not like Notre Dame's varied diverse and weather challenged schedule-I don't see them lining up to play ARMY/Navy and having celebration games in big venues, the gripes that would come from their fanbase after the injuries would be off the wall. Alabama would not win every game on Notre Dame's schedule ---we will never know but I'd bet $$$$$ they couldn't run the table with Notre Dame's schedule. Saban has the schedule out of conference just the way he likes it-best team in the country, should win another championship but the schedule is not good. No sour grapes on my part give them their due, but the out of conference schedule sucks. Irish catch hell if they played some of the teams Alabama plays.

 

[Bishop2b5]

I'm going to disagree Alabama would not like Notre Dame's varied diverse and weather challenged schedule-I don't see them lining up to play ARMY/Navy and having celebration games in big venues, the gripes that would come from their fanbase after the injuries would be off the wall. Alabama would not win every game on Notre Dame's schedule ---we will never know but I'd bet $$$$$ they couldn't run the table with Notre Dame's schedule. Saban has the schedule out of conference just the way he likes it-best team in the country, should win another championship but the schedule is not good. No sour grapes on my part give them their due, but the out of conference schedule sucks. Irish catch hell if they played some of the teams Alabama plays.

I agree with some of your points, but it's not so black & white as you make it. Sometimes what looks like an easy schedule turns out to be hard, and sometimes a schedule that looks brutal in August becomes a cakewalk. It's not always something you can control regardless of how you schedule. It's been discussed in here before, but a few years ago, ND had a brutal looking schedule, yet several of those opponents fell apart over the season and it hurt your SOS badly. It happened to Bama a year or two later.

Bama does schedule a cupcake or two every year, yet our SOS has been higher than ND's 7 of the past 11 years according to Sagarin. And we all know that the playoff committee doesn't give us any credit (nor do we expect them to) for beating a completely overmatched 3rd tier team. They know those are glorified scrimmages to give our starters a rest and our young players some game experience. Nobody on the committee is saying, "Hmm, Bama or OSU? Well heck, you saw what they did to Mercer. Let's go with Bama!" They're only looking at what we did against the other 10 teams.

Our two schools schedule differently. There's a difference between scheduling 12 average opponents, 6 weak ones and six strong ones, or 3 cupcakes & 6 average ones & 3 strong ones. All three ways may give you the same SOS, but they're structured very differently. Advantages & disadvantages to all of them.

 

[irishog77]

I agree with some of your points, but it's not so black & white as you make it. Sometimes what looks like an easy schedule turns out to be hard, and sometimes a schedule that looks brutal in August becomes a cakewalk. It's not always something you can control regardless of how you schedule. It's been discussed in here before, but a few years ago, ND had a brutal looking schedule, yet several of those opponents fell apart over the season and it hurt your SOS badly. It happened to Bama a year or two later.

Bama does schedule a cupcake or two every year, yet our SOS has been higher than ND's 7 of the past 11 years according to Sagarin. And we all know that the playoff committee doesn't give us any credit (nor do we expect them to) for beating a completely overmatched 3rd tier team. They know those are glorified scrimmages to give our starters a rest and our young players some game experience. Nobody on the committee is saying, "Hmm, Bama or OSU? Well heck, you saw what they did to Mercer. Let's go with Bama!" They're only looking at what we did against the other 10 teams.

Our two schools schedule differently. There's a difference between scheduling 12 average opponents, 6 weak ones and six strong ones, or 3 cupcakes & 6 average ones & 3 strong ones. All three ways may give you the same SOS, but they're structured very differently. Advantages & disadvantages to all of them.

The point remains, that outside of them doing a home-and-home against shitty pedo state teams, saban does not travel for games, and does not play away games out of conference.

You're correct in that the actual difficulty of opponents varies from year to year, but saban is purposefully controlling variables of difficulty by specifically not traveling far and specifically not going to a campus to play away games, ooc.

 

[Irish#1]

When was the last time Alabama played a true road game against an OOC opponent like ND, USC, OSU, OU, Clemson, etc.?

 

[dublinirish]

When was the last time Alabama played a true road game against an OOC opponent like ND, USC, OSU, OU, Clemson, etc.?

Penn State (when they were very shite) 2011

 

[Bishop2b5]

The point remains, that outside of them doing a home-and-home against shitty pedo state teams, saban does not travel for games, and does not play away games out of conference.

You're correct in that the actual difficulty of opponents varies from year to year, but saban is purposefully controlling variables of difficulty by specifically not traveling far and specifically not going to a campus to play away games, ooc.

He's built/following a scheduling model that works well for us. As a fan, I'd love to see more home/away series with USC, Oklahoma, ND, Texas, etc., but what he's doing is certainly effective in generating revenue, helping with recruiting, and getting us into the playoffs. I understand others not liking it (and Bama fans don't always like all of it either), but the results are hard to argue with.

 

[snoopdog]

He's built/following a scheduling model that works well for us. As a fan, I'd love to see more home/away series with USC, Oklahoma, ND, Texas, etc., but what he's doing is certainly effective in generating revenue, helping with recruiting, and getting us into the playoffs. I understand others not liking it (and Bama fans don't always like all of it either), but the results are hard to argue with.

Personally I believe that the playoff committee should announce a policy going forward that any team that schedules a FCS school automatically becomes ineligible for the playoffs.

There is zero justification to schedule teams below your level of play.

 

[Wingman Ray]

Im here in Birmingham, AL and have a lot of interaction with Bama fans here at the office. A lot are season ticket holders for years on years. Gotta feel for them because they are shelling a ton of clams for those season tickets + the Saban fee to keep them every year. It is not right how bad of a schedule Bama has set up for their home games. Really bad. Looking at this year, they play exactly one home game with a pulse, Auburn. Possibly two in Texas A&M but not real hopeful of that one either. It is a flat out rip off and those fans deserve better that that crappy schedule.

 

[Bishop2b5]

Personally I believe that the playoff committee should announce a policy going forward that any team that schedules a FCS school automatically becomes ineligible for the playoffs.

There is zero justification to schedule teams below your level of play.

I understand your position, but I respectfully disagree. There are a few good reasons.

1. The playoff committee isn't putting Bama or anyone else in the playoffs because of wins over FCS opponents. They give no credence to those games. They're looking at the body of work against quality opponents... and you still have to do enough with those other 9 or 10 opponents to demonstrate you're a top 4 team deserving of a playoff spot.

2. Those cupcake games give you a chance to rest starters, get injured players healed up, work out problems, and get younger players some playing time (which helps with recruiting) and some game experience they'll need down the road.

3. Those games are HUGE for the FCS programs. If they want to move up to FBS, they have to play a certain number of FBS schools. More importantly, those games provide a big part of the revenue they need to keep their program going. A game against Bama or other major FBS program provides as much as half of their annual budget. I heard an analyst just yesterday (maybe Joel Klatt?) say that without those games, many of the FCS programs simply couldn't make it financially today.

4. Playing an FBS program is a huge recruiting boost for those programs. They can tell potential recruits, "Sign with us and you'll get to play Big U. on TV next year."

Those games benefit both sides. They don't affect how the playoff committee chooses its four teams, they help the big school with experience and getting healed up, and they keep the FCS programs financed.

 

[snoopdog]

I understand your position, but I respectfully disagree. There are a few good reasons.

1. The playoff committee isn't putting Bama or anyone else in the playoffs because of wins over FCS opponents. They give no credence to those games. They're looking at the body of work against quality opponents... and you still have to do enough with those other 9 or 10 opponents to demonstrate you're a top 4 team deserving of a playoff spot.

2. Those cupcake games give you a chance to rest starters, get injured players healed up, work out problems, and get younger players some playing time (which helps with recruiting) and some game experience they'll need down the road.

3. Those games are HUGE for the FCS programs. If they want to move up to FBS, they have to play a certain number of FBS schools. More importantly, those games provide a big part of the revenue they need to keep their program going. A game against Bama or other major FBS program provides as much as half of their annual budget. I heard an analyst just yesterday (maybe Joel Klatt?) say that without those games, many of the FCS programs simply couldn't make it financially today.

4. Playing an FBS program is a huge recruiting boost for those programs. They can tell potential recruits, "Sign with us and you'll get to play Big U. on TV next year."

Those games benefit both sides. They don't affect how the playoff committee chooses its four teams, they help the big school with experience and getting healed up, and they keep the FCS programs financed.

I do understand the rationale to play FCS schools, but the wear and tear of a 12 game season is greatly reduced if you can add an FCS game or TWO.

Those teams that play a full slate of FBS schools don’t get the break and will wear down quicker.

So what I am advocating is teams can choose to play FCS for all the reasons you posted above, but they make themselves ineligible for the playoffs. For SEC teams like Vandy or Kentucky this presents no problems.

 

[Legacy]

Conference Comparisons after Week 2 (Colley)
Against P5 Opponents (includes only ND of Indep. teams)

Southeastern - 5-2 (10 of 14 FCS teams already played)
Big 10 - 5-4 (9 conference games. Does not play FCS teams)
Pac-12 - 3-3 (4 of 10 FCS teams played so far; UCLA and USC do not play FCS teams. All but one will have played their FCS game after week 3. The last team's FCS game is in Week 4)
Big 12 - 2-4 (6-1 - 7 of 9 FCS teams already played. Okla. does not play a FCS team)
ACC - 2-5 (12 of 14 FCS games already played)
ND - 1-0 (has never played FCS schools, of course)

33 of 45 scheduled games with FCS teams - about three-fourths - have been played so far - "warm-up games".

I'd add to Bishop's points that suspensions can be served. FCS teams scheduled may also be in-state schools, boosting the schools' revenue and relieving some pressure on states' funding. The ACC schedules are most similar to the SEC's - fourteen schools with all playing a FCS team.

College Football Helmet Schedules

 

[Legacy]

P5 conferences records against other P5 teams

P5 conferences records against other P5 teams

After Week 3

SEC - 6-2
Big 12 - 4-6
ACC - 3-5
Big 10 - 6-6
Pac 12 - 3-4

 

[NDRock]

After Week 3

SEC - 9-4
Big 12 - 4-6
ACC - 3-5
Big 10 - 6-6
Pac 12 - 3-4

Not surprised. Feels like the SEC is on an upswing after being relatively down (overall, always top heavy) the last few years. The East is definitely getting better. Added some better coaches.

 

[Bishop2b5]

Not surprised. Feels like the SEC is on an upswing after being relatively down (overall, always top heavy) the last few years. The East is definitely getting better. Added some better coaches.

A lot of coaching turnover the past few years and the bad play that led to it brought the SEC way down. Some bad coaching hires over the past several years hurt most of the mid-level programs and they imploded, leaving the conference with 2 or 3 good programs, no middle, and a bunch of hot garbage at the bottom. Several of those programs seem to have righted the ship and are playing surprisingly well so far. The SEC has a solid middle again.

 

[ab2cmiller]

I know that Tennessee is not good, but I was shocked to see that the betting line for the Georgia - Tennessee game is 32.5 points in favor of the Bulldogs.

 

[ACamp1900]

I know that Tennessee is not good, but I was shocked to see that the betting line for the Georgia - Tennessee game is 32.5 points in favor of the Bulldogs.

 

[greyhammer90]

I know that Tennessee is not good, but I was shocked to see that the betting line for the Georgia - Tennessee game is 32.5 points in favor of the Bulldogs.

Upset time

 

[Luckylucci]

Against the 2 power 5 teams they've played, UT has been outscored 87-35, lol. They are not good at football. Yet, they have the #12 ranked class as it stands today.

 

[ACamp1900]

Against the 2 power 5 teams they've played, UT has been outscored 87-35, lol. They are not good at football. Yet, they have the #12 ranked class as it stands today.

S.
E.
C.

 

[Bishop2b5]

I'm surprised the line is only 32.5. I thought it would be 40 or more. Pruitt's a good coach and hell of a recruiter and he'll get them turned around, but it won't be overnight. They have the roster talent of a directional school.

 

[ACamp1900]

I'm surprised the line is only 32.5. I thought it would be 40 or more. Pruitt's a good coach and hell of a recruiter and he'll get them turned around, but it won't be overnight. They have the roster talent of a directional school.

Freaking HOW tho?!?!

UT recruiting rankings:

2017 Signing Class: 17 (national), 7 (SEC)

2016 Signing Class: 14 (national), 7 (SEC)

2015 Signing Class: 4 (national), 2 (SEC)

2014 Signing Class: 7 (national), 5 (SEC)

2013 Signing Class: 25 (national), 11 (SEC)

I get that they've had attrition and turnover but still, that should NEVER be 30 plus dogs to anyone... just crazy.

 

[irishog77]

I'm surprised the line is only 32.5. I thought it would be 40 or more. Pruitt's a good coach and hell of a recruiter and he'll get them turned around, but it won't be overnight. They have the roster talent of a directional school.

Per Rivals, their class rankings the last 5 years have been:

'18- 20th
'17- 15th
'16- 15th
'15- 5th
'14- 5th

What directional school gets that type of talent?

As for Pruitt, we shall see. I'm not convinced he will get it turned around. I think you pointed out some months back that he is an extremely unlikable coach and person, and there were reasons he hadn't been given a shot before tennessee hired him, despite a helluva resume at several big-time schools and at the high school level as well.