Russia Invades Ukraine

Blazers46

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TorontoGold said:
Well, why vote for people want to increase military budgets?
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So my take was just that money sent with a nefarious purpose is dirty and was never clean and your response is to not increase military budgets? lol. Yet you are okay with my country sending billions for a shitty country to “defend” themselves against another shitty country? Yet you and others seem to be rooting for more war and more spending? And mock Trump who wants to end this bullshit. Make it make sense.
 
Irish#1

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There comes a time when you need to be pragmatic. I think we've reached that point. Ukraine has some eastern territory that was pro Russia. Give that to Russia and lets move on.
 
TorontoGold

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Blazers46 said:
So my take was just that money sent with a nefarious purpose is dirty and was never clean and your response is to not increase military budgets? lol. Yet you are okay with my country sending billions for a shitty country to “defend” themselves against another shitty country? Yet you and others seem to be rooting for more war and more spending? And mock Trump who wants to end this bullshit. Make it make sense.
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My point is increasing the defense budget is not an issue that establishment Dems or the GOP disagree with. Feigning some sort of shock and horror that the US Gov is sending money to less than stellar people is stupid. If they were sending money to the aggressor then you would have more of a case. Soviet's weren't exactly a fine upstanding democracy in WW2 but you'd still line up with them to defeat the Nazi's. Take issue with the MIC, it's not Ukraine's fault that there isn't a perfect record.

I'm not rooting for war at all, I'm rooting for defense.

I mock Trump because he is enabling dictators and has been doing so his entire political career. It's made even dumber when people say it's some 4d chess move to keep your "enemies" closer, what about your friends? They get tariffs and undermined?
 
GowerND11

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Irish#1 said:
There comes a time when you need to be pragmatic. I think we've reached that point. Ukraine has some eastern territory that was pro Russia. Give that to Russia and lets move on.
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You're probably right, but the perception that Trump is giving off is all wrong here. Meeting with Putin and calling Zelinskyy a dictator and blaming Ukraine is not the way to go about this. Maybe the "master negotiator" has something up his sleeve, but You go hardball at Russia first here one would think, then "settle" with some concessions. Instead, he is giving Russia the upper hand.
 
Blazers46

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TorontoGold said:
My point is increasing the defense budget is not an issue that establishment Dems or the GOP disagree with. Feigning some sort of shock and horror that the US Gov is sending money to less than stellar people is stupid. If they were sending money to the aggressor then you would have more of a case. Soviet's weren't exactly a fine upstanding democracy in WW2 but you'd still line up with them to defeat the Nazi's. Take issue with the MIC, it's not Ukraine's fault that there isn't a perfect record.
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Shock and horror would be stupid. Disagreeing with throwing money down the drain for a war that nobody is going to win that could have and should been stopped a long time ago is a very rational thought. It’s not shock and horror just because you disagree. Equating this to defeating the Nazis is also stupid. The US made the decision to just funnel more and more money without any peace talks. They are the grown up here instigating more war when they were grown up enough with the power to stop it.
TorontoGold said:
I'm not rooting for war at all, I'm rooting for defense.
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Defense of what? Ukraine? Cool, they wouldn’t need defense if the end goal was to stop this buffoonery.
TorontoGold said:
I mock Trump because he is enabling dictators and has been doing so his entire political career. It's made even dumber when people say it's some 4d chess move to keep your "enemies" closer, what about your friends? They get tariffs and undermined?
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Enabling them to do what? Stop a war. Have it Trump.
 
TorontoGold

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Blazers46 said:
Shock and horror would be stupid. Disagreeing with throwing money down the drain for a war that nobody is going to win that could have and should been stopped a long time ago is a very rational thought. It’s not shock and horror just because you disagree. Equating this to defeating the Nazis is also stupid. The US made the decision to just funnel more and more money without any peace talks. They are the grown up here instigating more war when they were grown up enough with the power to stop it.

Defense of what? Ukraine? Cool, they wouldn’t need defense if the end goal was to stop this buffoonery.

Enabling them to do what? Stop a war. Have it Trump.
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Ok cool, what should Biden done differently? What was Trump doing that was so successful? How do you know there were no peace talks? Who do you think is the one that needs to initiate the peace talks? I break into your house destroy it, and you shoot me in the leg. Who should apologize first?

Enabling to do whatever they want because they know that Trump will pressure his "allies" before his "enemies".
 
Blazers46

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TorontoGold said:
Ok cool, what should Biden done differently? What was Trump doing that was so successful? How do you know there were no peace talks? Who do you think is the one that needs to initiate the peace talks? I break into your house destroy it, and you shoot me in the leg. Who should apologize first?

Enabling to do whatever they want because they know that Trump will pressure his "allies" before his "enemies".
Click to expand...

Biden should apologize first.
 
Irish#1

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TorontoGold said:
Ok cool, what should Biden done differently? What was Trump doing that was so successful? How do you know there were no peace talks? Who do you think is the one that needs to initiate the peace talks? I break into your house destroy it, and you shoot me in the leg. Who should apologize first?

Enabling to do whatever they want because they know that Trump will pressure his "allies" before his "enemies".
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How do we know there were no peace talks? Something of that magnitude would be known even if they wanted to keep it quiet. Besides, Joe wasn't shy about letting everyone know he was trying to get Israel and Hamas to sit down and talk.
 
Irish#1

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GowerND11 said:
You're probably right, but the perception that Trump is giving off is all wrong here. Meeting with Putin and calling Zelinskyy a dictator and blaming Ukraine is not the way to go about this. Maybe the "master negotiator" has something up his sleeve, but You go hardball at Russia first here one would think, then "settle" with some concessions. Instead, he is giving Russia the upper hand.
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His approach isn't how I would handle it either, but I'm going to wait and see what is proposed. I'm still not convinced Trump and Putin are that chummy. If they were, why didn't Putin go ahead and invade while Trump was in his first term? Conditions were more favorable.
 
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Irish#1 said:
His approach isn't how I would handle it either, but I'm going to wait and see what is proposed. I'm still not convinced Trump and Putin are that chummy. If they were, why didn't Putin go ahead and invade while Trump was in his first term? Conditions were more favorable.
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He was waiting for Trump to win reelection. If Trump wins in 2020 Russia invades with zero resistance from the US.
 
TorontoGold

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Irish#1 said:
How do we know there were no peace talks? Something of that magnitude would be known even if they wanted to keep it quiet. Besides, Joe wasn't shy about letting everyone know he was trying to get Israel and Hamas to sit down and talk.
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If Russia isn't willing to come to the table to concede it seems like there's nothing to talk about, unless you want to ruin international relationships and just want to score political points.
 
Sea Turtle

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I get Trump wanting to get something out of helping Ukrine. But 50% forever is too much.

25% for 99 years sounds more appropriate.
 
calvegas04

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Sea Turtle said:
I get Trump wanting to get something out of helping Ukrine. But 50% forever is too much.

25% for 99 years sounds more appropriate.
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The US could invest into Ukraine and turn them into another South Korea while russia wouldn't look like North Korea.
 
drayer54

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GATTACA! said:
He was waiting for Trump to win reelection. If Trump wins in 2020 Russia invades with zero resistance from the US.
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drayer54 said:
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Who would think they would be rely on a guy calling Zelinsky a dictator, saying Ukraine started the war, and only wants to meet with Russia for peace talks??

Shocking people would think that.
 
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Yeah dumbo America ran an election during the friggin Civil War. He’s had three yrs to destroy his country. Enough is enough. Now midget Z is suppressing free speech wonder why.
 
TorontoGold

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Biden: Maintained relationships with allies.
Trump: Zelensky only has a 4% approval rating, he started the war!
IE MAGA: You see, this is a very complex issue! Ukraine should just hand its land over! But, like I think Biden is to blame! Anyways, DavidDukeSuperFan1488 shared a tweet that helped me come to this conclusion.
 
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