Russia Invades Ukraine

calvegas04

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And the world moves into a more scary time. This is not good for anyone even Ukraine and still doesn't bring this war any closer to an end.
Is Ukraine supposed to just let Russia bomb them non stop and take it?
 

Cackalacky2.0

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And the world moves into a more scary time. This is not good for anyone even Ukraine and still doesn't bring this war any closer to an end.
Ukraine can bomb Russia all it wants. This is war. Just note that Ukraine is hitting military targets and not civilian centers and power stations trying to freeze the citizens to death in winter.
 

Irish#1

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Makes you wonder how crappy their defense systems are?
 

Sea Turtle

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Probably still running a bear front with big white linebackers in neck rolls. Cornerbacks that can only play zone and slow safeties.

They have always had a defense of 'strategic depth'. An extreme version of bend but don't break. It's why they can never have enough land.

Napoleon made it to Moscow before having to retreat. Hitler made it to Stalingrad I believe. They just keep moving everything east.

The country is just so freaking big.
 

PerthDomer

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Looks like we're sending Patriot Missile systems now. Russia should have a much harder time hitting civilian infrastructure.
 

INLaw

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Agreed with all of this. As a conservative I am just not at all with the Tucker Carlson’s on this and think it’s not only a potential wrong side of history but also either doesn’t play well with the right base or splits it. Even isolationist right generally recognizes Russia is the Ivan Drago forever foe and is more than happy to help kick em in the nutz whenever possible. Russia is michigan level assholes
 

Irish#1

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Agreed with all of this. As a conservative I am just not at all with the Tucker Carlson’s on this and think it’s not only a potential wrong side of history but also either doesn’t play well with the right base or splits it. Even isolationist right generally recognizes Russia is the Ivan Drago forever foe and is more than happy to help kick em in the nutz whenever possible. Russia is michigan level assholes
We have to keep kicking them in the proverbial nutz until they forgo communism which means we'll be kicking them for a long long time.
 

dublinirish

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We have to keep kicking them in the proverbial nutz until they forgo communism which means we'll be kicking them for a long long time.

They haven’t been a communist state since 1991


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

Cackalacky2.0

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Agreed with all of this. As a conservative I am just not at all with the Tucker Carlson’s on this and think it’s not only a potential wrong side of history but also either doesn’t play well with the right base or splits it. Even isolationist right generally recognizes Russia is the Ivan Drago forever foe and is more than happy to help kick em in the nutz whenever possible. Russia is michigan level assholes
It’s absolutely the wrong side of history to defend Putin or dissuade the US from helping Ukraine.
 

Cackalacky2.0

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We have to keep kicking them in the proverbial nutz until they forgo communism which means we'll be kicking them for a long long time.
Not sure if serious? They have become a oligarchical kleptocracy since the fall of the USSR. It’s still very corrupt and inefficient but now they have billionaires doing the state work instead of party men.
 

INLaw

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Not sure if serious? They have become a oligarchical kleptocracy since the fall of the USSR. It’s still very corrupt and inefficient but now they have billionaires doing the state work instead of party men.
I think the experience for an average Russian didn’t change all that much from Tzar to Red Communist, to the oligarchy dictatorship they have now. Kind of all sucked particularly for people outside the major cities and their numerous ethnic minorities
 

Cackalacky2.0

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I think the experience for an average Russian didn’t change all that much from Tzar to Red Communist, to the oligarchy dictatorship they have now. Kind of all sucked particularly for people outside the major cities and their numerous ethnic minorities
I don’t disagree with that but the actual communist economic model died when USSR fell.
 

sixstar

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As someone who makes his money in contracting, war is good for business. But I don't like where we are at because I don't know where we are going.

I'm genuinely interested in your answers to these questions:
  • What threat does Russia pose to the US? Please categorize (economic, political, military) and quantify each threat. Be specific.
  • On a scale 1-10, what is the likelihood that Russia would ever attack the US unprovoked?
  • What are the top 5 reasons that the US should be attacking Russia via Ukraine right now?
  • How much has the US spent supporting Ukraine vs. the war in Afghanistan?
  • What is the end criteria, and how much more money is required to achieve this end goal? How long will this take?
 

Jiggafini19Deux

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As someone who makes his money in contracting, war is good for business. But I don't like where we are at because I don't know where we are going.

I'm genuinely interested in your answers to these questions:
  • What threat does Russia pose to the US? Please categorize (economic, political, military) and quantify each threat. Be specific.
  • On a scale 1-10, what is the likelihood that Russia would ever attack the US unprovoked?
  • What are the top 5 reasons that the US should be attacking Russia via Ukraine right now?
  • How much has the US spent supporting Ukraine vs. the war in Afghanistan?
  • What is the end criteria, and how much more money is required to achieve this end goal? How long will this take?
What percentage of my grade does this count for?
 

sixstar

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Well, you posted the article. Let's discuss it. Before we claim that it's costing the US peanuts, let's scope the discussion.
 

Jiggafini19Deux

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Well, you posted the article. Let's discuss it. Before we claim that it's costing the US peanuts, let's scope the discussion.
I posted the article without comment. A week ago. I didn't claim jack shit, so I don't know who "we" is exactly.

There is a final exam's worth of questions here that I'm going to answer, so I need a few minutes for typing alone.
 

sixstar

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I posted the article without comment. A week ago. I didn't claim jack shit, so I don't know who "we" is exactly.

There is a final exam's worth of questions here that I'm going to answer, so I need a few minutes for typing alone.

So do you agree, disagree, or have no opinion on the premise of the article you posted, and why?

No need to get cranky, jiggs.
 

Jiggafini19Deux

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I'm genuinely interested in your answers to these questions:
  • What threat does Russia pose to the US? Please categorize (economic, political, military) and quantify each threat. Be specific.
  • On a scale 1-10, what is the likelihood that Russia would ever attack the US unprovoked?
  • What are the top 5 reasons that the US should be attacking Russia via Ukraine right now?
  • How much has the US spent supporting Ukraine vs. the war in Afghanistan?
  • What is the end criteria, and how much more money is required to achieve this end goal? How long will this take?

1. Europe depends on Russia for energy. Europe is not as economically stable this century via the Great Recession. Makes it a lot harder for the US to have a grip on the financial and payment systems with all of that hanging over everyone's heads. We probably don't even know the full economic ramifications just yet, though, direct and indirect.

Russia is a threat to our allies and to us. US NSD calls them an "acute threat." Putin isn't someone we can rely on as an ally or partner and he has a particular interest is sowing division among Americans politically. Obviously we're better divided to him than united. He should be taken seriously and from a strategic standpoint, a weakened Putin is better for everyone, especially the United States. We send a message of our resolve to our allies and enemies alike.

Militarily, Russia is being drained of resources, but they still have nuclear capability. That should be taken seriously, especially if they are pursuing nuclear modernization. they're not the threat they were during the Cold War, but a serious nuclear threat in addition to the cyber hacking capabilities.

2. On a scale 1-10, what is the likelihood that Russia would ever attack the US unprovoked?

Haven't a fucking clue. I'm sure our military and intelligence people know this better than I could answer it. Nuclear? Militarily? Space? Cyber hacking? Disinformation to the American public?

3. What are the top 5 reasons that the US should be attacking Russia via Ukraine right now?

1. Ukraine holding off Russia and potentially winning stops the war from spreading and spilling over into nearby countries.
2. NDS calls Russia an acute threat. The more money they spend fighting, the more materials they use and lose, the more men that they lose on the battlefield downgrades them as an overall threat.
3. Ukraine succeeding vs Russia is better for the global economy, especially for Europe, which makes it good for us and everyone.
4. Putin undermines American values, democracy in particular. We can't be the world police, but we should still stand for something decent.
5. Sovereignty, secure borders and defense. Stuff we take for granted here.

4. How much has the US spent supporting Ukraine vs. the war in Afghanistan?

I assume this question can be answered by everyone here with the capability of looking it up.

5. What is the end criteria, and how much more money is required to achieve this end goal? How long will this take?

Defend and preserve democracy and sovereignty, our values, around the world. Ukraine is an ally. I am concerned about our troops being redeployed from where they already are in the world to that region the further this goes on and would like to avoid that. Ukraine becomes an even stronger ally in the end, particularly militarily, with a victory and support. One threat gets put back into the box.

How much money it takes, I don't know, but we obviously can't go on forever giving it. Nor can all the other nations providing support, most of whom have even higher inflation than the US does right now. I also don't know how long it takes because the Ukraine has been essentially crippled in every aspect of their existence. What does reconstruction and recovery look like after a victory? A decade? Two decades?
 
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