Russia Invades Ukraine

[NDVirginia19]

Great post OMM. I would add....

I. The reason Russia was capable of wantonly invading at all is because Ukraine agreed to their own nuclear disarmament in exchange for the United State's protection from just such an invasion. It's the United State's responsibility to hold up that end of our bargain. Not just because it's the right thing to do in terms of that one deal, but as a deterrent to nuclear proliferation.

I've mentioned before, but the agreement had incredibly soft security assurances that amounted to making sure we were upset about it and let people know we were upset about it (which is essentially what we did). And I think the "sacrifice" Ukraine made by giving up the weapons is pretty overblown. They didn't inherit any of the nuclear codes to effectively use the weapons and likely lacked the institutional knowledge and funding to both override the security as well as maintain a stockpile of nuclear weapons. Even if they would have figured out how to operationally employ them, they would have had to rely on Russia for the industrial support of maintenance. It was a more symbolic disarmament rather than a practical one.

 

[GATTACA!]

I've mentioned before, but the agreement had incredibly soft security assurances that amounted to making sure we were upset about it and let people know we were upset about it (which is essentially what we did). And I think the "sacrifice" Ukraine made by giving up the weapons is pretty overblown. They didn't inherit any of the nuclear codes to effectively use the weapons and likely lacked the institutional knowledge and funding to both override the security as well as maintain a stockpile of nuclear weapons. Even if they would have figured out how to operationally employ them, they would have had to rely on Russia for the industrial support of maintenance. It was a more symbolic disarmament rather than a practical one.

It worked well enough that they haven't pursued developing or procuring any more in the three decades since, despite having barbarians at their gates.

If I was any of the Baltic countries I would be working on getting my nuclear program online ASAP if the US does indeed abandon Ukraine.

 

[TorontoGold]

I replied to you because you said "they were all super excited to jump on me", then you excluded Virginia and Turtle.

You ever have one of those posters you just read and move on? Not responding to his posts doesn't mean I agree with Giddyup. You'd be hard pressed to find where I replied to or supported any of his posts. I did give him a thumbs up once, but it had nothing to do with anything antisemitic.

I excluded them because they actually either corrected Giddyup or agreed with my post. If you want to re-litigate the exact posters who've suggested I was antisemtic for calling Bibi's administration out we can do that.

Usually Giddyup is that, but when he says something like "ever seen more people wanting to start a World War more than a Jewish president of Ukraine" and "Sure. Jewish tribe is not natural to Ukraine." that seems kind of insane?

You clearly cared enough about Giddy's comments to thumbs up a post comparing them to Gattaca. So you do have an opinion on it, just that you don't think comparing a jewish leader to being a warmonger, claiming he's a CIA asset, and that "jewish tribe is not natural to Ukraine" is antisemitic?

When there is a clear example of someone trotting out the same old school jews are globalists controlling the government to launder money for their war in a territory they don't belong in, you'd rather be silent on that? It was a perfect chance for you/miller/bishop to call him out for that, but you're most insistent on arguing with me for grouping you in? Virginia and Turtle can put behind political differences to call something out, but the rest of you would rather just "lol" at saying Gattaca posts just like him.

 

[BuaConstrictor]

but the rest of you would rather just "lol" at saying Gattaca posts just like him

Likely a good reason for that.....

Just sayin

 

[GATTACA!]

China 'appalled' by Trump's policy, opposes talks without Ukraine

China's envoy to the EU said the country's policy, unlike Trump's, focuses on peace and cooperation

news.liga.net

 

[NDVirginia19]

China 'appalled' by Trump's policy, opposes talks without Ukraine

China's envoy to the EU said the country's policy, unlike Trump's, focuses on peace and cooperation

news.liga.net

View attachment 3058405

I’m sure the nation that is committing active genocide against their Uighur Muslim population and others is very deeply morally concerned with our strategy to end the war.

 

[GATTACA!]

I’m sure the nation that is committing active genocide against their Uighur Muslim population and others is very deeply morally concerned with our strategy to end the war.

Yeah if even they are calling you an asshole it might be time to reevaluate.

 

[Irish#1]

I excluded them because they actually either corrected Giddyup or agreed with my post. If you want to re-litigate the exact posters who've suggested I was antisemtic for calling Bibi's administration out we can do that.

Usually Giddyup is that, but when he says something like "ever seen more people wanting to start a World War more than a Jewish president of Ukraine" and "Sure. Jewish tribe is not natural to Ukraine." that seems kind of insane?

You clearly cared enough about Giddy's comments to thumbs up a post comparing them to Gattaca. So you do have an opinion on it, just that you don't think comparing a jewish leader to being a warmonger, claiming he's a CIA asset, and that "jewish tribe is not natural to Ukraine" is antisemitic?

When there is a clear example of someone trotting out the same old school jews are globalists controlling the government to launder money for their war in a territory they don't belong in, you'd rather be silent on that? It was a perfect chance for you/miller/bishop to call him out for that, but you're most insistent on arguing with me for grouping you in? Virginia and Turtle can put behind political differences to call something out, but the rest of you would rather just "lol" at saying Gattaca posts just like him.

Yes I did one thumbs up on one comment which I eluded to. That doesn’t make me a
Giddyup supporter or that I agree with all of his comments. People are free to call him out. I simply ignore those outlandish comments. Those that don’t, aren’t automatically agreeing or approving of his comments like you seem to seem to think. If it makes you feel better, I will try to make this as clear as possible. I do not condone or agree with his comments about Jews or Zelenskyy being a warmongering Jew.

Now feel free to call out the other posters who didn’t comment and don’t give me an excuse that they didn’t post at you.

 

[NDVirginia19]

Yeah if even they are calling you an asshole it might be time to reevaluate.

The “so what” is less about “oh wow maybe we might be the bad guys” and more about China seeing our backing away from European regional influence and China trying to ingratiate themselves to the EU. It’s a purely political move, not about their moral righteousness

 

[GATTACA!]

The “so what” is less about “oh wow maybe we might be the bad guys” and more about China seeing our backing away from European regional influence and China trying to ingratiate themselves to the EU. It’s a purely political move, not about their moral righteousness

And we want to exclude Ukraine from peace talks because?

 

[TorontoGold]

Yes I did one thumbs up on one comment which I eluded to. That doesn’t make me a
Giddyup supporter or that I agree with all of his comments. People are free to call him out. I simply ignore those outlandish comments. Those that don’t, aren’t automatically agreeing or approving of his comments like you seem to seem to think. If it makes you feel better, I will try to make this as clear as possible. I do not condone or agree with his comments about Jews or Zelenskyy being a warmongering Jew.

Now feel free to call out the other posters who didn’t comment and don’t give me an excuse that they didn’t post at you.

lol you didn't ignore it enough to like Miller's comment comparing him to Gattaca, or did you just like that post without reading the reason why? Do you think it's appropriate to equate Gattaca to someone who makes those kinds of comments? I'm glad you've decided to call out his comments.

I've mentioned Miller and Bishop countless times, I'm not hiding from it or just targeting you, you posted at me first, remember? They're just too lost in the sauce that they think Gattaca's posting style is on par with someone parroting antisemitic tropes.

 

[NDVirginia19]

And we want to exclude Ukraine from peace talks because?

I think the extent to which we are excluding Ukraine from our peace talks is overblown. We haven’t had trilateral discussions, but we’ve had bilateral discussions with both countries.

 

[GATTACA!]

I think the extent to which we are excluding Ukraine from our peace talks is overblown. We haven’t had trilateral discussions, but we’ve had bilateral discussions with both countries.

How about being alone with Russia, North Korea, and Belarus refusing to condemn Russia in the UN vote?

 

[NDVirginia19]

How about being alone with Russia, North Korea, and Belarus refusing to condemn Russia in the UN vote?

I’ve said before that I was against that decision. I understand it but I’m against it

 

[Old Man Mike]

Frankly, since "we" aren't in the room in any peace talks (i.e. IE posters are not), it would seem to me to be intellectually prudent not to have any strong opinions on things like "exclusion" or overblown-ness until we get the next public commentary by various (biased) leaderships and the analysis by professionals. Many of us here on IE seem to write "conclusion" or deduction style comments based upon what they want (often badly) to be true, rather than anything they have any evidence for. It's why some threads are so hard to read --- lots of assertions and often few if any evidence that real research went into them. It's why I come in hope but leave usually wondering why I did. ... actually kind of painful for me, anyway, so I think I'll try to take a break from these threads.

How do you guys hang in there hollering at one another week after week?

 

[calvegas04]

How do you guys hang in there hollering at one another week after week?

It's the off season

 

[NDVirginia19]

Frankly, since "we" aren't in the room in any peace talks (i.e. IE posters are not), it would seem to me to be intellectually prudent not to have any strong opinions on things like "exclusion" or overblown-ness until we get the next public commentary by various (biased) leaderships and the analysis by professionals. Many of us here on IE seem to write "conclusion" or deduction style comments based upon what they want (often badly) to be true, rather than anything they have any evidence for. It's why some threads are so hard to read --- lots of assertions and often few if any evidence that real research went into them. It's why I come in hope but leave usually wondering why I did. ... actually kind of painful for me, anyway, so I think I'll try to take a break from these threads.

How do you guys hang in there hollering at one another week after week?

We are sick, sick individuals

 

[GATTACA!]

Frankly, since "we" aren't in the room in any peace talks (i.e. IE posters are not), it would seem to me to be intellectually prudent not to have any strong opinions on things like "exclusion" or overblown-ness until we get the next public commentary by various (biased) leaderships and the analysis by professionals. Many of us here on IE seem to write "conclusion" or deduction style comments based upon what they want (often badly) to be true, rather than anything they have any evidence for. It's why some threads are so hard to read --- lots of assertions and often few if any evidence that real research went into them. It's why I come in hope but leave usually wondering why I did. ... actually kind of painful for me, anyway, so I think I'll try to take a break from these threads.

How do you guys hang in there hollering at one another week after week?

It keeps the mind sharp. It's like mental sparring.

Like the mental equivalent to me going to a kindergarten and sparring with a group of kids on the playground.

 

[Irish#1]

We are sick, sick individuals

Yes we are.

 

[Irish#1]

It keeps the mind sharp. It's like mental sparring.

Like the mental equivalent to me going to a kindergarten and sparring with a group of kids on the playground.

Damn it Gat. I thought for sure you were older than 6.

 

[Irish#1]

lol you didn't ignore it enough to like Miller's comment comparing him to Gattaca, or did you just like that post without reading the reason why? Do you think it's appropriate to equate Gattaca to someone who makes those kinds of comments? I'm glad you've decided to call out his comments.

I've mentioned Miller and Bishop countless times, I'm not hiding from it or just targeting you, you posted at me first, remember? They're just too lost in the sauce that they think Gattaca's posting style is on par with someone parroting antisemitic tropes.

Following your logic, I'm disappointed you didn't call out The Prospector for calling A2B a Putin supporter given he's never made a comment anywhere near that. Does that mean you think AB2 is a Putin sympathizer?

For clarification, here's AB2's post with a key point that you clearly missed highlighted.

The entertaining part is that Gattaca’s and Giddyup’s posting styles are virtually the same, just arguing the opposite side on every issue.

Notice he referenced Gattaca and Giddyups "styles". No where does he mention the content being the same or even similar. He clearly states they are on the opposite side. Big difference.

How about this. Every time Giddyup posts, you tell me which ones I should object too. That way you won't think I agree with him and your feelings don't get hurt.

 

[NDVirginia19]

The political threads (except Bua because he's so smart)

 

[BuaConstrictor]

except Bua because he's so smart

True.

 

[NDVirginia19]

 

[TorontoGold]

Following your logic, I'm disappointed you didn't call out The Prospector for calling A2B a Putin supporter given he's never made a comment anywhere near that. Does that mean you think AB2 is a Putin sympathizer?

For clarification, here's AB2's post with a key point that you clearly missed highlighted.


Notice he referenced Gattaca and Giddyups "styles". No where does he mention the content being the same or even similar. He clearly states they are on the opposite side. Big difference.

How about this. Every time Giddyup posts, you tell me which ones I should object too. That way you won't think I agree with him and your feelings don't get hurt.

lol can you source your claims? Also, why would I comment on that? How many times have people said the Left sympathizes with Hamas with no push back? Difference that you miss, is we had a very clear case of antisemitism that was ignored and made into a joke.

My feelings are totally fine, remember, you injected yourself into this not me. I'll keep highlighting the moments in which you and the rest ignore easy layups, while people that are "on your side" are able to walk and chew gum.

It's impressive how much energy you've devoted to this because you're more upset with me than the antisemitic post.

 

[BuaConstrictor]

It's impressive how much energy you've devoted to this because you're more upset with me than the antisemitic post.

 

[GATTACA!]

Zelensky's approval rating jumps to 68% after Trump clash, poll shows

The most significant jump came after the Feb. 28 Oval Office meeting, which ended in a public dispute over security guarantees for Ukraine and the cancellation of the U.S.-Ukraine mineral agreement signing.

kyivindependent.com

 

[Giddyup]

Sounds like there is a meeting set up with Russia US Ukraine next week in Saudi Arabia. Hopefully some progress can be made or it’ll be another dance from Z

 

[GATTACA!]

Sounds like there is a meeting set up with Russia US Ukraine next week in Saudi Arabia. Hopefully some progress can be made or it’ll be another dance from Z

Second one is just a bold face lie.

 

[calvegas04]

Trump is currently getting Ukrainians killed