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NDdomer2

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You don't add strength in season. You maintain. I don't know if you believe in the 10,000 hours to acheive mastery theory or not. But, I'd rather have my guys gaining experience in practice reps and game reps than lifting a extra day or two during a season.
 
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koonja

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You don't add strength in season. You maintain. I don't know if you believe in the 10,000 hours to acheive mastery theory or not. But, I'd rather have my guys gaining experience in practice reps and game reps than lifting a extra day or two during a season.

You do if you're not playing. That's my whole point.
 

enrico514

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<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-partner="tweetdeck"><p>Kelly says he’s unsure if the four players want to remain at Notre Dame, regardless of the investigation’s outcome.</p>— Irish Illustrated (@NDatRivals) <a href="https://twitter.com/NDatRivals/statuses/500686648544604160">August 16, 2014</a></blockquote>
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Wouldn't blame the kids one bit if this was the case!
 

TheChosen1

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So could the story go...

Davaris is in class doing a power point presentation, he opens an email on the power point screen in front of the class and the presentation file is in an email from an unknown person. The prof sees this and opens an investigation?
 

enrico514

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Is it me or does this man seem like a complete douche: <blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p>Message to athletes: Never use the university email system even if you are doing things the right way! Don't be judged on incomplete facts!!</p>— Phillip Daniels (@PhillipDaniels) <a href="https://twitter.com/PhillipDaniels/statuses/500650126562426881">August 16, 2014</a></blockquote>
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He doesn't sound like a douche at all to me! He definitely knows more than we do and is sticking up for his kid.
 

BobbyMac

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So could the story go...

Davaris is in class doing a power point presentation, he opens an email on the power point screen in front of the class and the presentation file is in an email from an unknown person. The prof sees this and opens an investigation?


Unless the first line of the email read.... "Attached is the project I did for you so you could remain eligible"... why would opening an email from someone else to retrieve your work be something necessarily wrong?

What if he did it on her/his computer and didn't have a jump to save it to so he emailed it to himself... cuz you know if it was a girl it came from... he wasn't gonna open up him email in front of her, on her computer. I know you plaers feel me on this one fellas!
.
 

rtrn2glory

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that sounded like BK is expecting the worst idk if i read that wrong, but that was my impression.
 

NDWorld247

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This reminds me of the story of Devon Ramsay, the UNC football player featured in last year's "Schooled: The Price of College Sports" documentary.

First, if you haven't seen the documentary, I recommend it to everyone. It's very interesting and has started to change my opinion on the whole college model, paying players, etc. Very enlightening and thought provoking. It's available on Netflix.

Ramsay wasn't your typical UNC student-athlete that's been portrayed in the media. He actually cared about his education. Long story short, he sent his paper to a tutor to proofread before submitting, as he often did. Not because he needed them to write it, but because he was vigilant about his work and wanted another set of eyes. The tutor edited some stuff and sent it back to him. He submitted it. A while later (it was like a year or two), his email exchange gets flagged and sent to the NCAA as part of some wider investigation (IIRC). The NCAA comes down on him and he's suspended. He's later reinstated as he was one of the few that was unfairly punished.

After reading Fowler's article above, there's some renewed hope that the situation with our players is similar and they truly didn't believe what they, or the tutor(s), were doing was wrong. The difference is ND is conducting the investigation and not the NCAA. IIRC, UNC's investigation didn't uncover any wrongdoing (shocker!) in Ramsay's case, and/or other cases, but the NCAA dropped the hammer anyway because clearly some f'ed up shit was going on.

Best case scenario, it's similar to Ramsay's circumstances and the players are found of minimal or no wrongdoing resulting in immediate reinstatement or a "slap on the wrist" (i.e. 1-4 game suspension). I don't think this is the likely story/outcome for ALL four of the players, but I'm holding out hope it's the case for some of them.
 

NDdomer2

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You do if you're not playing. That's my whole point.

Wheres the proof? I have not once in Kelly's tenure heard them praise a RS for the right room gains made in season. You are beating your body up 5 days a week for for months. There honestly isn't a lot if weight room improvement. You lift to maintain strength throughout the season.
 

kmoose

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no... if they were innocent... I wouldn't blame them for wanting to leave.

I want to make sure I understand this............. are you saying that, if they are innocent, but get suspended for the season, then you would not blame them?

Or are you saying that you would not blame them for wanting to transfer, even if the investigation clears them of any wrongdoing?
 

enrico514

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Here's a question... there's 14 days before the season starts... why would ND not wait until they completed their investigation before notifying the NCAA (which I am assuming is where the leak came from) or the day before the opener if the investigation is not yet done?
 

enrico514

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I want to make sure I understand this............. are you saying that, if they are innocent, but get suspended for the season, then you would not blame them?

Or are you saying that you would not blame them for wanting to transfer, even if the investigation clears them of any wrongdoing?

If they are innocent... I would understand why they would not want to stay at ND.

I they are guilty... They should be suspended or worse depending on the crime.
 
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Buster Bluth

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Wheres the proof? I have not once in Kelly's tenure heard them praise a RS for the right room gains made in season. You are beating your body up 5 days a week for for months. There honestly isn't a lot if weight room improvement. You lift to maintain strength throughout the season.
I'm not sure if I understand this correctly, but I do remember plenty of talk about players making gains in the weight room during the 2010 season. Probably because they were still experiencing the post-Weis improvement.
 

NDWorld247

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<iframe src="//player.vimeo.com/video/103600278" width="500" height="281" webkitallowfullscreen mozallowfullscreen allowfullscreen></iframe>
 

kmoose

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If they are innocent... I would understand why they would not want to stay at ND.

Yes, why would they want to stay at a place where they are expected to play by the rules, and they are treated fairly when someone accuses them of not doing so?
 

enrico514

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Yes, why would they want to stay at a place where they are expected to play by the rules, and they are treated fairly when someone accuses them of not doing so?

We don't know anything and are speculating but if I was in their shoes and was innocent I would be turned off by this entire situation and accompanying circus. Once again... without knowing anything... ND has had a couple weeks to investigate this situation and should have had straighten it out before it got to this point. I would also ask myself why did ND notify the NCAA about potential possible cheating that may have occured before knowing that they did in fact cheat and why are they even talking about vacating wins? Guilty or not these kids will forever be associated with this and one has to wander if the school could have handled it better.
 
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JughedJones

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We don't know anything and are speculating but if I was in their shoes and was innocent I would be turned off by this entire situation and accompanying circus. Once again... without knowing anything... ND has had a couple weeks to investigate this situation and should have had straighten it out before it got to this point. I would also ask myself why did ND notify the NCAA about potential cheating before knowing that they did in fact cheat and why are they even talking about vacating wins? Guilty or not these kids will forever be associated with this and one has to wander if the school could have handled it better.


This line doesn't make any sense.

So, if they are guilty of cheating... it's ND's fault for not stopping them? Or should we have swept it under the rug? Or... I don't get it.

Please explain.
 

Crazy Balki

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We don't know anything and are speculating but if I was in their shoes and was innocent I would be turned off by this entire situation and accompanying circus. Once again... without knowing anything... ND has had a couple weeks to investigate this situation and should have had straighten it out before it got to this point. I would also ask myself why did ND notify the NCAA about potential possible cheating that may have occurred before knowing that they did in fact cheat and why are they even talking about vacating wins? Guilty or not these kids will forever be associated with this and one has to wander if the school could have handled it better.

Well, in terms of how the school handled it. I'd say about as well as you'd expect. Did they do it perfectly? No. I think they should have come out with it sooner, but it seems like they wanted to have as much background on the situation as possible before convicting anybody.

As far as the players leaving if found innocent. That'd be beyond stupid. They'd be throwing away 3 years of the highest quality education, because they feel "betrayed" or "turned off by the situation". Well kids, that's life. Sometimes you get in deep shit and it's not fun. I don't think these guys will just up and leave just because their feelings were hurt. Would I be pissed at the school? Abso-fuckin-lutely. But I wouldn't let that cloud my judgment. I'm a year away from one of the best degrees this country has to offer and have a chance to improve my draft stock, while playing for one of the best schools in college football.
 

Irish YJ

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We don't know anything and are speculating but if I was in their shoes and was innocent I would be turned off by this entire situation and accompanying circus. Once again... without knowing anything... ND has had a couple weeks to investigate this situation and should have had straighten it out before it got to this point. I would also ask myself why did ND notify the NCAA about potential possible cheating that may have occured before knowing that they did in fact cheat and why are they even talking about vacating wins? Guilty or not these kids will forever be associated with this and one has to wander if the school could have handled it better.

Just a couple points.
  • The athletic department did not notify the NCAA. The school did. ND is not looking at this as an athletic issue. They see this as a student issue. As the students are atheletes, they informed the NCAA.
  • They pulled the 4 from the team as to CYA in the case they are proven at fault. If they played, wins could be vacatated and bowl ban could happen. It sucks, but they are doing the right thing for both the football team and the university.
  • From the intel we have, and the quality of intel we have, I unfortunately don't see them being found innocent. I would love if they are, but I'm tempering my expectations. I have not found them guilty, but I do trust the info from a few key posters.
  • I'd also point out that it's better to throw yourself under the bus, then let the bus run over you. Better to self report than have a breaking deadspin or yahoo story come out. Shows integrity and intelligence in my opinion. We are ND, and we do hold ourselves to a different standard.
  • Hope for the best, be prepared for the worst. Support the young men playing or suspended regardless.
 

phillyirish

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IDK if its been posted cause I dont feel like reading a 1200 post thread but here it gores:

Ok my source is a stretch but its legit, My brother has a friend, whose brother went to ND and is friends with Tommy Rees. (Legit not making that up).

Apparent Davaris Daniels emailed some chick to do his paper. I guess the same chick thats been helping him out before. She emailed him the paper. Davaris then forwarded the link along with every single previous email detailing the cheating and shit to his teacher.

IDK if the same girl has been helping out the other players, but Davaris and I guess the girl were told to give up all the other information about the other players or theyd be expelled. Don't know why Davaris complied cause looks like he is done regardless.

Thats what I heard, all I know. Sounds legit to me and have no further info so I can't really elaborate.
 

kmoose

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IDK if its been posted cause I dont feel like reading a 1200 post thread but here it gores:

Ok my source is a stretch but its legit, My brother has a friend, whose brother went to ND and is friends with Tommy Rees. (Legit not making that up).

Apparent Davaris Daniels emailed some chick to do his paper. I guess the same chick thats been helping him out before. She emailed him the paper. Davaris then forwarded the link along with every single previous email detailing the cheating and shit to his teacher.

IDK if the same girl has been helping out the other players, but Davaris and I guess the girl were told to give up all the other information about the other players or theyd be expelled. Don't know why Davaris complied cause looks like he is done regardless.

Thats what I heard, all I know. Sounds legit to me and have no further info so I can't really elaborate.

Phillip Daniels says, "You take that back, you suminabeach!! YOU TAKE THAT BACK, RIGHT NOW!!!"
:wink:
 

Irishman77

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IDK if its been posted cause I dont feel like reading a 1200 post thread but here it gores:

Ok my source is a stretch but its legit, My brother has a friend, whose brother went to ND and is friends with Tommy Rees. (Legit not making that up).

Apparent Davaris Daniels emailed some chick to do his paper. I guess the same chick thats been helping him out before. She emailed him the paper. Davaris then forwarded the link along with every single previous email detailing the cheating and shit to his teacher.

IDK if the same girl has been helping out the other players, but Davaris and I guess the girl were told to give up all the other information about the other players or theyd be expelled. Don't know why Davaris complied cause looks like he is done regardless.

Thats what I heard, all I know. Sounds legit to me and have no further info so I can't really elaborate.

So DD asked the girl to do his paper and then turned himself in? Was he baiting her to throw her under the bus? I don't understand and this doesn't make sense....was he just feeling ashamed and turned himself in?
 

phillyirish

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So DD asked the girl to do his paper and then turned himself in? Was he baiting her to throw her under the bus? I don't understand and this doesn't make sense....was he just feeling ashamed and turned himself in?

No he accidentally forwarded the emails detailing the cheating and the fact that she did the paper for him when he sent the essay to his teacher. No one was trying to out eachother or anything. Just a dumb goof to not send in the paper seperatley.\

So when the teacher received the email with paper, he could read all of there previous emails that were attached.
 

Irish YJ

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IDK if its been posted cause I dont feel like reading a 1200 post thread but here it gores:

Ok my source is a stretch but its legit, My brother has a friend, whose brother went to ND and is friends with Tommy Rees. (Legit not making that up).

Apparent Davaris Daniels emailed some chick to do his paper. I guess the same chick thats been helping him out before. She emailed him the paper. Davaris then forwarded the link along with every single previous email detailing the cheating and shit to his teacher.

IDK if the same girl has been helping out the other players, but Davaris and I guess the girl were told to give up all the other information about the other players or theyd be expelled. Don't know why Davaris complied cause looks like he is done regardless.

Thats what I heard, all I know. Sounds legit to me and have no further info so I can't really elaborate.

Interesting.... so if true,,,, cheats, then is stupid about cheating, then rats. I'm guessing the girl was more afraid of getting expelled because DD would likely be gone otherwise.
Anyway.....

loose-lips-will-sink-ships-1.png
 

enrico514

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Just a couple points.
  • The athletic department did not notify the NCAA. The school did. ND is not looking at this as an athletic issue. They see this as a student issue. As the students are atheletes, they informed the NCAA. So they inform the NCAA that students potentially maybe cheated? Makes no sense to me!
  • They pulled the 4 from the team as to CYA in the case they are proven at fault. If they played, wins could be vacatated and bowl ban could happen. It sucks, but they are doing the right thing for both the football team and the university.Last time I checked the season starts in two weeks. One would think this is plenty of time to figure out if they are guilty or not.
  • From the intel we have, and the quality of intel we have, I unfortunately don't see them being found innocent. I would love if they are, but I'm tempering my expectations. I have not found them guilty, but I do trust the info from a few key posters. No clue on this point but why not wait to make sure they are guilty (given you have 2 weeks before the season starts)
  • I'd also point out that it's better to throw yourself under the bus, then let the bus run over you. Better to self report than have a breaking deadspin or yahoo story come out. Shows integrity and intelligence in my opinion. We are ND, and we do hold ourselves to a different standard. Totally disagree with you on this point. In this case ND is throwing 4 kids it is supposed to protect without having concluded wether they are guilty or not.
  • Hope for the best, be prepared for the worst. Support the young men playing or suspended regardless. agreed


...
 
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irishfan

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No he accidentally forwarded the emails detailing the cheating and the fact that she did the paper for him when he sent the essay to his teacher. No one was trying to out eachother or anything. Just a dumb goof to not send in the paper seperatley.\

So when the teacher received the email with paper, he could read all of there previous emails that were attached.

I just got a text that the alleged cheating was uncovered by an accidental email sent by one of the players to his professor. Doesn't sound like the tutor started the investigation.

Edit: Connects the dots to Phillip Daniel's tweet.

Just saw this from an ISD poster. Same info as you. Figured I'd post it here as well.

What a stupid way to get caught.
 

enrico514

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IDK if its been posted cause I dont feel like reading a 1200 post thread but here it gores:

Ok my source is a stretch but its legit, My brother has a friend, whose brother went to ND and is friends with Tommy Rees. (Legit not making that up).

Apparent Davaris Daniels emailed some chick to do his paper. I guess the same chick thats been helping him out before. She emailed him the paper. Davaris then forwarded the link along with every single previous email detailing the cheating and shit to his teacher.

IDK if the same girl has been helping out the other players, but Davaris and I guess the girl were told to give up all the other information about the other players or theyd be expelled. Don't know why Davaris complied cause looks like he is done regardless.

Thats what I heard, all I know. Sounds legit to me and have no further info so I can't really elaborate.

The DD case would be pretty clear cut if this was true. I doubt DD would have made his recent comment if this is true. Then again I can't imagine someone being so stupid/lazy/careless to do this.
 
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mokpra37

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Reported Daniels says only used source to edit ..

Reported Daniels says only used source to edit ..

Just saw a link on Rivals reporting that Daniels has stated he only used source to edit punctuation and that he writes his own papers. This would seem to fly in the face of the most recent tripe in this string. I have seen ten different stories, including one that stated 22 players were involved. Let it play out.
 
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