Rumored Violations

[kmoose]

...this is intentionally fucking over football players...

To what end, though?

 

[ginman]

To what end, though?

I agree. I think this is the illusion of super competence. You can see it with the secret service here recently. In Hollywood we see the organization as the best of the best- infallible experts who never screw up. In reality, some of them are hiring prostitutes when they are supposed to be protecting the first family, and then somebody jumps the fence at the White House and is able to walk thru the front door. Afterwards, instead of saying they f'd up they say that they showed major restraint with the incident and there isn't a problem with what happened.

ND and some on this board will do the same when this case is over.

 

[ThePiombino]

This is a friendly reminder that the "ignore" function is your friend.[/IMG]

Amen to that!

One of the players involved told me " I know the same as you bro, we have not heard a thing since the day they pulled us out of practice" refereeing to where the investigation was at . That was last Thursday.

This is absolutely disturbing.

 

[JughedJones]

To what end, though?

I'm thinking that this is the University's way of saying loud and clear that ND is NOT like the rest of the football world that is going through so much shit right now.

I think there's a few of the muckity-mucks that believe it's a great idea to make sure the world knows that ND is different than the public perception of football. They got such praise for 'doing the right thing' with Golson that they wanted to make an even bigger statement now that all these 'crises', (large and small/college and pro,) have broke.

I hope I don't need to add that this is all in my head and just my own theory.

I will say definitively that this is the first time my faith in the school's leadership has been challenged. I've always trusted them to do the right thing by their guys/gals... this is not the right thing.

 

[NDdomer2]

I'm thinking that this is the University's way of saying loud and clear that ND is NOT like the rest of the football world that is going through so much shit right now.

I think there's a few of the muckity-mucks that believe it's a great idea to make sure the world knows that ND is different than the public perception of football. They got such praise for 'doing the right thing' with Golson that they wanted to make an even bigger statement now that all these 'crises', (large and small/college and pro,) have broke.

I hope I don't need to add that this is all in my head and just my own theory.

I will say definitively that this is the first time my faith in the school's leadership has been challenged. I've always trusted them to do the right thing by their guys/gals... this is not the right thing.

so then would you say that you think ND will wait to release this info when all the other hoopla is died instead of the usually PR move of letting it out when something big happens, to ensure that we have attention on us?

 

[NDdomer2]

Conclusion of academic probe still at least a week away | Inside the Irish

so confusing:

“It’s a very complicated situation, obviously. There are a lot of pieces here,” Kelly said. “There are NCAA implications, certainly. We’re probably going down a path that has never gone before.”

and...

“I do not have any knowledge of vacating wins or NCAA implications,” Kelly said. “I have not been informed of that, and whether that is impending, I think I would have been informed of all those things, if we were in that kind of I am immediacy.”

 

[JughedJones]

so then would you say that you think ND will wait to release this info when all the other hoopla is died instead of the usually PR move of letting it out when something big happens, to ensure that we have attention on us?

I don't know, man.

I mean, they could have ended it during the Ray Rice crap if they wanted to save face. Then they had another chance with AP. They're clearly not waiting for the "7:00 pm Friday night, end of the news cycle" strategy.

Like I said, that's just what's in my head. It's the only thing that makes sense to me. Whatever the excuse or reasoning for this is... it's not good enough. They've fucked these kids.

 

[Booslum31]

I'm thinking that this is the University's way of saying loud and clear that ND is NOT like the rest of the football world that is going through so much shit right now.

I think there's a few of the muckity-mucks that believe it's a great idea to make sure the world knows that ND is different than the public perception of football. They got such praise for 'doing the right thing' with Golson that they wanted to make an even bigger statement now that all these 'crises', (large and small/college and pro,) have broke.

I hope I don't need to add that this is all in my head and just my own theory.

I will say definitively that this is the first time my faith in the school's leadership has been challenged. I've always trusted them to do the right thing by their guys/gals... this is not the right thing.

I keep telling myself that I'm going to reserve judgement on how administration has handled this until I see how this plays out. and all the facts come out. Ofcourse, assuming all of the facts DO come out. But hearing that not even the players involved know WTF is going on is very alarming. On another note, I just can't picture a scenario where it would take this long to make a decision for a regular non-athlete student at ND.

 

[Irishcop]

Probably the wrong place for this post but if the NCAA finds J. Winston was guilty of wrong doing back in 2012 would that make him ineligible retroactively and would FSU have to vacate wins? I know it's no longer a criminal case but in terms of eligibility.

 

[JughedJones]

On a purely selfish level: It's really hard for me to get pumped for Saturday and talk X's and O's with all this crap.

However, if there's a coach in the country that I believe can get their guys to play through it, it's BK. That "Reborn" film showed me a whole different side of him.

I'm glad he's our guy. Further - unlike many - I don't think this episode is going to be the catalyst for him going anywhere. He might pop for the NFL, but this won't be the reason why.

 

[Pachuco]

Not everything is a conspiracy.

I'm not saying that mistakes haven't been made,

but I've never experienced Notre Dame as a University that seeks to inflict harm on its student body, athletes included.

For every administrator with a chip on his/her shoulder, there's one trying to help alleviate the stress of a difficult situation.

If there are innocents involved, I do hope that the University acknowledges the mistakes it made, not to us as a public, but to those players involved.

My two.

 

[MNIrishman]

Not everything is a conspiracy.

I'm not saying that mistakes haven't been made,

but I've never experienced Notre Dame as a University that seeks to inflict harm on its student body, athletes included.

For every administrator with a chip on his/her shoulder, there's one trying to help alleviate the stress of a difficult situation.

If there are innocents involved, I do hope that the University acknowledges the mistakes it made, not to us as a public, but to those players involved.

My two.

Correct.

 

[JughedJones]

Not everything is a conspiracy.

I'm not saying that mistakes haven't been made,

but I've never experienced Notre Dame as a University that seeks to inflict harm on its student body, athletes included.

For every administrator with a chip on his/her shoulder, there's one trying to help alleviate the stress of a difficult situation.

If there are innocents involved, I do hope that the University acknowledges the mistakes it made, not to us as a public, but to those players involved.

My two.

I didn't mean it as a conspiracy, at least in the pejorative sense. I don't think they're meaning to act with malice, but I do think they believe there is a greater good to be served which is in turn fucking these kids.

Opus Dei style flagellation.

 

[Irish#1]

I was listening to the Power Hour the other day and totally agreed with the host when he said there can be no good cause for this much of a delay. Either kick them out or reinstate them.

It's just cruel to keep them hanging on for this long. No excuse is good enough at this point. This isn't a RICO case their investigating/adjudicating... it's some kids cheating. Handle it or don't.

This is what gets me. We have no idea why this has taken so long, so how can you say that?

I'm one of the few that at this moment feel they probably have a good reason for the length of this. Now if it finally comes out that the cause for such a lengthy process was simply someone wasn't available or some other lame excuse, then I will join Koonja in storming the castle doors, moats be damned!

 

[BGIF]

Probably the wrong place for this post but if the NCAA finds J. Winston was guilty of wrong doing back in 2012 would that make him ineligible retroactively and would FSU have to vacate wins? I know it's no longer a criminal case but in terms of eligibility.

I believe the current flap is over FSU's compliance with provisions of Title IX, federal gender equity. Some 70 universities are being investigated by the Feds, not the NCAA, for their handling/procedures/policies on sexual incidents/allegations.

It's not related to the NCAA from what I've read. Nor is it a retroactive eligibility issue.

The local FL DA said there was insufficient evidence to proceed with prosecution. No NCAA violation if he had.

The FSU Honor Committee (I'm not sure if that's the right name) found one player, the cell phone videographer, guilty of a school code violation and he received one year Probation but was not suspended from the football team.


Now if an e-mail from someone of the FSU Honor Committee turned up establishing that the vote was tainted by the influence of a coach, the AD, a Dean, etc or the investigation was intentionally inept there could be grounds for the dreaded "Lack of Institutioal Control" charge. But simple sloppy procedures (Title IX sloppiness) wouldn't generate that.

 

[koonja]

Can we get back to news?

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p>They need to go ahead and put a bugs life, toy story and Love & Basketball on Netflix</p>— Toot Daddy Fresh™ (@DaVarisDaniels) <a href="https://twitter.com/DaVarisDaniels/status/514887833803563008">September 24, 2014</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

 

[ndftbl]

Not everything is a conspiracy.

I'm not saying that mistakes haven't been made,

but I've never experienced Notre Dame as a University that seeks to inflict harm on its student body, athletes included.

For every administrator with a chip on his/her shoulder, there's one trying to help alleviate the stress of a difficult situation.

If there are innocents involved, I do hope that the University acknowledges the mistakes it made, not to us as a public, but to those players involved.

My two.

The problem is just that they move at a snail's pace, and it is almost impossible to ever change anything there. Brian Kelly knows this all too well, yet he keeps plugging away. See, e.g., stadium music, field turf, minimizing the boring stadium "cheers," like "WE R N D," etc.

Simply incredible that this academic committee was JUST FORMED. "Well, we always do this the first month of each academic year; this is nothing new."

Exactly.

Junior Parents Weekend, for example, is ALWAYS held on the weekend of the year which is expected to be the coldest and have the most snow.

Enough said.

 

[ndftbl]

This is what gets me. We have no idea why this has taken so long, so how can you say that?

I'm one of the few that at this moment feel they probably have a good reason for the length of this. Now if it finally comes out that the cause for such a lengthy process was simply someone wasn't available or some other lame excuse, then I will join Koonja in storming the castle doors, moats be damned!

Why do you write "we have no idea why this has taken so long"?

Didn't Brian just tell us why?

It's because, procedurally, the school always appoints the Academic Committee the first month of each school year, i.e., not the first week.

If you are an ND grad, you of course know it is virtually impossible to ever get that University to change any procedure.

I STILL can't believe they continue to hold Junior Parents Weekend over the coldest and snowiest weekend of the year.

 

[Classic Irish]

I STILL can't believe they continue to hold Junior Parents Weekend over the coldest and snowiest weekend of the year.

Ain't that the truth, LOL!

 

[JughedJones]

This is what gets me. We have no idea why this has taken so long, so how can you say that?

I'm one of the few that at this moment feel they probably have a good reason for the length of this. Now if it finally comes out that the cause for such a lengthy process was simply someone wasn't available or some other lame excuse, then I will join Koonja in storming the castle doors, moats be damned!

That's just the thing. At this point, there is nothing remotely possible that they could offer up that would be a reasonable explanation for something taking this long.

It's either utter incompetence or they're trying to make a point.

Either way, it's beyond ridiculous. What could they possibly... POSSIBLY... be thinking about that takes this long? It's a case of academic dishonesty.

You're thinking WAY too much of yourself if it takes you this long to figure out who gets what kind of punishment for cheating. Either kick them out or let it go. Let these kids get on with their lives one way or the other.

This is bordering on negligent behavior. Something I never thought I'd see from Notre Dame.

 

[ndftbl]

Ain't that the truth, LOL!

I remember most of my son's roommates were from Miami or even out of the country.

By the time their parents were able to get to Junior Parents Weekend, through all the snow, it was over.

And they had a great time touring the campus for the first time, in a blizzard.

It is just impossible to get these guys to change, and I am convinced this was the major source of the delay here, i.e., "we do not appoint the Academic Committee until the fourth full week of the academic year," or some BS like that.

 

[JughedJones]

I remember most of my son's roommates were from Miami or even out of the country.

By the time their parents were able to get to Junior Parents Weekend, through all the snow, it was over.

And they had a great time touring the campus for the first time, in a blizzard.

It is just impossible to get these guys to change, and I am convinced this was the major source of the delay here, i.e., "we do not appoint the Academic Committee until the fourth full week of the academic year," or some BS like that.

I believe that would fall into the 'utter incompetence' category.

My only hope at this point is that, no matter what the verdict/outcome, ND make a full apology for their behavior as well.

It's the only right thing to do. Regardless.

 

[Classic Irish]

I remember most of my son's roommates were from Miami or even out of the country.

By the time their parents were able to get to Junior Parents Weekend, through all the snow, it was over.

And they had a great time touring the campus for the first time, in a blizzard.

It is just impossible to get these guys to change, and I am convinced this was the major source of the delay here, i.e., "we do not appoint the Academic Committee until the fourth full week of the academic year," or some BS like that.

I remember there being a big snow storm for my JPW back in 1991. It was in February, as I recall. Of all times to have your parents come to campus.

 

[MNIrishman]

That's just the thing. At this point, there is nothing remotely possible that they could offer up that would be a reasonable explanation for something taking this long.

It's either utter incompetence or they're trying to make a point.

Either way, it's beyond ridiculous. What could they possibly... POSSIBLY... be thinking about that takes this long? It's a case of academic dishonesty.

You're thinking WAY too much of yourself if it takes you this long to figure out who gets what kind of punishment for cheating. Either kick them out or let it go. Let these kids get on with their lives one way or the other.

This is bordering on negligent behavior. Something I never thought I'd see from Notre Dame.

So little has been released that it's difficult to say for sure that this is indeed all that it is.

 

[JughedJones]

So little has been released that it's difficult to say for sure that this is indeed all that it is.

“Integrity is at the heart of our mission and academic misconduct will not be tolerated at Notre Dame,” said Rev. John I. Jenkins, C.S.C., the University’s president. “If the suspected improprieties are proven, we will use the experience to reinforce among our students the importance of honesty in all that they do. We are also examining ways of better conveying to students that they can avail themselves of legitimate academic assistance without resorting to cheating.”

AUGUST FUCKING 15TH!

 

[Bogtrotter07]

I believe that would fall into the 'utter incompetence' category.

My only hope at this point is that, no matter what the verdict/outcome, ND make a full apology for their behavior as well.

It's the only right thing to do. Regardless.

I would be interested in getting Kelly's take as to whether it is conscious incompetence, or unconscious incompetence.

 

[JughedJones]

I would be interested in getting Kelly's take as to whether it is conscious incompetence, or unconscious incompetence.

 

[Irish To The Core]

I believe that would fall into the 'utter incompetence' category.

My only hope at this point is that, no matter what the verdict/outcome, ND make a full apology for their behavior as well.

It's the only right thing to do. Regardless.

I am inclined to agree, except that an apology (while it is warranted) will not be forthcoming. This is bureaucracy plain and simple and bureaucracies cannot apologize for being bureaucracies without throwing a fall guy to the wolves to take the heat for the real villain...the bureaucracy itself.

Without courageous leadership to stand up and bypass the red tape, this is how a bureaucratic system grinds along totally blind to anything but its own procedure.

 

[JughedJones]

I am inclined to agree, except that an apology (while it is warranted) will not be forthcoming. This is bureaucracy plain and simple and bureaucracies cannot apologize for being bureaucracies without throwing a fall guy to the wolves to take the heat for the real villain...the bureaucracy itself.

Without courageous leadership to stand up and bypass the red tape, this is how a bureaucratic system grinds along totally blind to anything but its own procedure.

As someone that actually appreciates a good bureaucracy, I'm not buying this.

I refuse to accept that Notre Dame is so mired in its red tape that they are unable to find an agile response to this issue. If they wanted to, they could certainly be 'agile' enough to handle this in a little less than the forever it's taken.

They've completely lost sight that these are kids whose parents they promised to treat correctly. There's no kind of mistake these kids could have made that warrant this neglect. If it is truly that bad... call the cops. Otherwise, I'm sure between all the incredibly bright people we have at this University, we could come to something a little less egregious than this.

 

[MNIrishman]

AUGUST FUCKING 15TH!

We know what the suspicions were. We do not know what the evidence is, or whether additional complications arose in the course of investigation. We're really quite blind here. A speedy resolution would have been fantastic. I'm reserving pissed-off-alum-with-a-pitchfork status for when I hear what's been discovered, what's been decided, and the timeframe along which things went. If those don't align with my expectations of fair treatment for current students, I will let the administration know that I am disappointed, as I am sure many other alums will.