Rioting in St Louis

[tommyIRISH23]

And here read this

Rookie Jersey City Cop Melvin Santiago Killed During Armed Robbery

You'll be thrilled to know that the bloods put a hit out on all cops bc they killed him. His trash bag wife said on the channell 10 news that she wishes her husband would've killed more cops.

Go tell Melvin's mom that you can relate to why this poor kid was killed

 

[kmoose]

I've spent time in black neighborhoods and live in about a half-black one right now, and people are afraid of the police. Hate from "fuck the police" and "cop killer" and whatnot comes from fear. I think it's obvious why people try not to act scared around cops. People are protesting because they are afraid of the same thing happening to them or their kids. What happened not only to Michael Brown but John Crawford, Darrien Hunt, Tamir Rice, etc.

I'm afraid that the cops will target me because I am black....... so I am going to burn down this black-owned business.

Yeah, that makes a lot of sense.

But I do understand that what you say was the truth for many people that peacefully demonstrated.

 

[GoIrish41]

I'm afraid that the cops will target me because I am black....... so I am going to burn down this black-owned business.

Yeah, that makes a lot of sense.

But I do understand that what you say was the truth for many people that peacefully demonstrated.

You do realize that the vast majority of protesters did not loot or burn anything, right?

 

[GoIrish41]

Terrified lol? what do you base this on? How much time have you spent in black neighborhoods. I can garuntee I have spent much more than you have spent and black kids are not terrified of cops. Just because your sociology professor told you so, who himself, has never spent meaningful time interacting with the "poor" other than treating them like lab rats in an attempt to verify his own opinions that are based off "data".

I am a cop in one of the top 10 most dangerous cities in america. I interact regularly with the residents of my city and not one of them runs from or acts fearful of me. They joke around, laugh, and help when they can.

lol and to the moron who said less patrols in black neighborhoods with high crime rates is a great idea....really? what fuckin world do you live in? have you ever been in a city? the residents that arent criminals (99%) welcome increased police and will request more patrols on their streets when they feel theres more need. The tip lines recievers 100's of calls a night.

I grew up in a predominantly black neighborhood and know how the kids therr felt about the police ... even the one who had the most going for them. One friend from high school who earned an academic scholarship to school and went on to a career in the navy that emded woth a toir with the blue angels used to avoid cops loke they had a disease. He was terrified of them. Why? His dad was shot and killed by cops who mistook him for a suspect in a robbery. He was afraid because he had every righy to be. I never tool sociology bit i have seen plenty of evidence in my life that blacks are treated worse by cops than whites. If you are not part of that problem good on you. Bit you are not every cop and you cettainly do not speak for every black person. Thpse who i have known my whole life seem to roumdly fear police.

 

[wizards8507]

I grew up in a predominantly black neighborhood and know how the kids therr felt about the police ... even the one who had the most going for them. One friend from high school who earned an academic scholarship to school and went on to a career in the navy that emded woth a toir with the blue angels used to avoid cops loke they had a disease. He was terrified of them. Why? His dad was shot and killed by cops who mistook him for a suspect in a robbery. He was afraid because he had every righy to be. I never tool sociology bit i have seen plenty of evidence in my life that blacks are treated worse by cops than whites. If you are not part of that problem good on you. Bit you are not every cop and you cettainly do not speak for every black person. Thpse who i have known my whole life seem to roumdly fear police.

I'm not sure how old you are but let's say you're 35. That would mean your friend's dad was a young man in the 60s and 70s. It's not the 60s and 70s anymore.

 

[NoJusticeNoPeace]

People are still mistakenly shot and arrested by cops. That hasn't ended. It also takes a while to build trust and obviously cops in the 1960s weren't trusted by black people either.

 

[Irish#1]

"They need you to believe that a 12-year-old child could look like a 20 year old man. "

Greg Oden looked like he was 40 when he was 17. LeBron James looked 30 when he was 18.

 

[GoIrish41]

I'm not sure how old you are but let's say you're 35. That would mean your friend's dad was a young man in the 60s and 70s. It's not the 60s and 70s anymore.

I'm 50 and to my eye racism is alive and well. It is not the 70s anymore but any disease left untreated continues to do harm. How many young black men should die before we take steps to cure this nation's sickness?

 

[kmoose]

You do realize that the vast majority of protesters did not loot or burn anything, right?

They didn't? Damn. Who knew?

 

[wizards8507]

How many young black men should die before we take steps to cure this nation's sickness?

Okay here's a practical application of your theory that this country is "sick" with racism. In 2000, 48% of voters supported white Democrat Al Gore for President. In 2004, 48% of voters supported white Democrat John Kerry for president. Based on those figures, we can assume that roughly 52% of voters disagree with the Democrat agenda for reasons that have 100% nothing to do with race. If 52% of voters disagree with the Democrat agenda based strictly on substantive policy differences, PLUS there's a big pile of racists somewhere, how on earth did Barack Obama get 53% of the vote in 2008? If America was even the smallest measurable amount of racist as a whole, how could he possibly have beaten his similarly-principled Democrats by a total of 5 percentage points in a national election?

EDIT: Yes, racism exists in America, but that does not mean America is racist. A black man who is a criminal does not mean all black men are criminals. Likewise, a racist cop does not mean cops are racist.

 

[ulukinatme]

Just saw this, different story but related, the family is f'in' stupid:

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/sL5iqph_KRQ" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

What an outrage, he's a good kid, he's just running with the wrong crowd!

 

[GoIrish41]

Okay here's a practical application of your theory that this country is "sick" with racism. In 2000, 48% of voters supported white Democrat Al Gore for President. In 2004, 48% of voters supported white Democrat John Kerry for president. Based on those figures, we can assume that roughly 52% of voters disagree with the Democrat agenda for reasons that have 100% nothing to do with race. If 52% of voters disagree with the Democrat agenda based strictly on substantive policy differences, PLUS there's a big pile of racists somewhere, how on earth did Barack Obama get 53% of the vote in 2008? If America was even the smallest measurable amount of racist as a whole, how could he possibly have beaten his similarly-principled Democrats by a total of 5 percentage points in a national election?

EDIT: Yes, racism exists in America, but that does not mean America is racist. A black man who is a criminal does not mean all black men are criminals. Likewise, a racist cop does not mean cops are racist.

We don't disagree here at all. I'll rephrase my hypothetical ... how long is "non-racist" America going to sit back and let those infected with the sickness of racism continue to do harm?

Racism did not end the day the nation elected a black president. Indeed, post election, it seems to have made racism more openly apparent. No president has been treated with the disrespect that Obama has over the past six years. Disagreement happens with every president and his rivals. Who screams out "liar" in an open session of Congress when he is speaking? Who wags their finger in the president's face on the runway of an airport? Who accuses the president of being from a different country, thereby questioning his citizenship and legitimacy as to serve? What president has endured a systematic and openly discussed plan by his allies to say no to everything he proposes? The minority leader in the Senate openly said in Obama's first term that their number one priority was to ensure that Obama didn't get a second term -- at the exclusion of passing any substanative legislation whatsoever. His signature piece of legislation has been challenged more than 50 times in Congress and several more times in the courts. The government was shut down, deals to acomodate republicans were ignored and mocked all to ensure that he would have no success in helping the Americna people -- all for transparent, base political gain. Political correctness might have hidden racism under several layers of superficial civility for a while, but when a black man was elected president, the sickness came back with a vengence. So forgive me if I roll my eyes at your example of how a black man being elected proves anything about the nature of racism in this country other than it is still alive and well.

 

[GoIrish41]

They didn't? Damn. Who knew?

apparently you didn't as your posts always seem to lump all the protestors together into a single disgruntled unit who harmed their own community when they didn't get their way.

 

[wizards8507]

Racism did not end the day the nation elected a black president.

I didn't say Obama's election caused the end of racism or anything along those lines. However, it is EVIDENCE that the remaining racism in our country isn't nearly as widespread as many would like to indicate.

No president has been treated with the disrespect that Obama has over the past six years.

Oh come on, that's just false. Not just presidents, either. How many people think Sarah Palin actually said "I can see Russia from my house"? Spoiler alert: that was Tina Fey.

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/IxUs0WnE6aQ" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

<iframe width='640' height='360' scrolling='no' frameborder='0' src='https://screen.yahoo.com/couric-palin-open-000000480.html?format=embed' allowfullscreen='true' mozallowfullscreen='true' webkitallowfullscreen='true' allowtransparency='true'></iframe>

 

[kmoose]

apparently you didn't as your posts always seem to lump all the protestors together into a single disgruntled unit who harmed their own community when they didn't get their way.

You're f'in kidding, right?

Did you even READ the entire post of mine that you quoted?

I'm afraid that the cops will target me because I am black....... so I am going to burn down this black-owned business.

Yeah, that makes a lot of sense.

But I do understand that what you say was the truth for many people that peacefully demonstrated.

You want to know when non-racist America will take action? We'll take action when non-oppressed minorities quit crying "racism" with every bad thing that happens to someone of color.

 

[wizards8507]

You want to know when non-racist America will take action? We'll take action when non-oppressed minorities quit crying "racism" with every bad thing that happens to someone of color.

(Including Presidents of the United States.)

 

[GoIrish41]

You're f'in kidding, right?

Did you even READ the entire post of mine that you quoted?



You want to know when non-racist America will take action? We'll take action when non-oppressed minorities quit crying "racism" with every bad thing that happens to someone of color.

What action is there to take if you feel that the "non oppressed minorities" are just whining when one of them gets chocked to death by a cop for selling cigarettes, or gunned down on the playground, or shot a dozen times in the street?

And yes, I read the whole post. A dismissive, ignorant comment to start and then a "but I understand" to end up. The second statement does not excuse the first.

 

[wizards8507]

What action is there to take if you feel that the "non oppressed minorities" are just whining when one of them gets chocked to death by a cop for selling cigarettes, or gunned down on the playground, or shot a dozen times in the street?

A handful of incidents does not equate to an epidemic. Rape and murder happen all the time in this country but that doesn't me we're a nation of rapists and murders.

 

[GoIrish41]

A handful of incidents does not equate to an epidemic. Rape and murder happen all the time in this country but that doesn't me we're a nation of rapists and murders.

Its not just a handful of incidents. These are flashpoints in a much larger issue that is always boiling just below the surface. Black people are sentenced more extremely. They disproportunately fill the nation's prisons. There is so much evidence that there is a problem, it is unbelievable to me that we can just brush it off as no big deal. It's even worse when we demonize the people who are complaining about the issue. When we throw our hands in the air and say, beh it doesn't happen that often, so ... what they hell, we are allowing the problem to go on and on.

At what point is apathy part of the problem?

 

[kmoose]

What action is there to take if you feel that the "non oppressed minorities" are just whining when one of them gets chocked to death by a cop for selling cigarettes, or gunned down on the playground, or shot a dozen times in the street?

There is no action to take, when people try to characterize it as "gets chocked(choked) to death by a cop for selling cigarettes". That's not what happened, and it's an ignorant and inflammatory statement designed to set up people who might disagree to look like racists. The man was accidentally choked to death during an attempt to subdue him, after he resisted arrest. That's not to say that there shouldn't be any action as a result of the incident. I don't know all of the facts, so I wouldn't be able to comment on that from a reasonably informed point of view. I think there is absolutely room for vast improvement in how the police in this country handle uncooperative citizens. But you, and others, claiming that all of the incidents are part of a conspiracy against people of color is simply (no pun intended) white noise. And, like in audio applications, white noise simply gets filtered out because it is undesirable.

And yes, I read the whole post. A dismissive, ignorant comment to start and then a "but I understand" to end up. The second statement does not excuse the first.

And now you are just trying to obfuscate the issue. I did make a dismissive comment. It was dismissive of your dismissive and sarcastic question about whether or not I realized that very few protestors took part in looting and arson. That much was obvious, so I dismissively answered your question. Then you accused me of trying to paint all of the protestors in the same light, which simply isn't true. So I reposted my words, to refute that. Now you are trying to act like I made some kind of outlandish statement, and then tried to cover it up with some false praise or something. That's not what happened. I never indicated that I thought that all of the protestors were criminals. THAT is what you accused me of. So I showed you where I had made a distinction between the criminal element and the rest of the peaceful protestors. If you want to be taken seriously, and you want me to have empathy for your plight, then quit trying to make me out to be some kind of racist.

 

[ab2cmiller]

We don't disagree here at all. I'll rephrase my hypothetical ... how long is "non-racist" America going to sit back and let those infected with the sickness of racism continue to do harm?

Racism did not end the day the nation elected a black president. Indeed, post election, it seems to have made racism more openly apparent. No president has been treated with the disrespect that Obama has over the past six years. Disagreement happens with every president and his rivals. Who screams out "liar" in an open session of Congress when he is speaking? Who wags their finger in the president's face on the runway of an airport? Who accuses the president of being from a different country, thereby questioning his citizenship and legitimacy as to serve? What president has endured a systematic and openly discussed plan by his allies to say no to everything he proposes? The minority leader in the Senate openly said in Obama's first term that their number one priority was to ensure that Obama didn't get a second term -- at the exclusion of passing any substanative legislation whatsoever. His signature piece of legislation has been challenged more than 50 times in Congress and several more times in the courts. The government was shut down, deals to acomodate republicans were ignored and mocked all to ensure that he would have no success in helping the Americna people -- all for transparent, base political gain. Political correctness might have hidden racism under several layers of superficial civility for a while, but when a black man was elected president, the sickness came back with a vengence. So forgive me if I roll my eyes at your example of how a black man being elected proves anything about the nature of racism in this country other than it is still alive and well.

So to summarize, you believe that Republicans are racist and that specifically Republicans in Congress are racist and that is why they did all of the things that you mentioned above.

Give me a break. You wonder why cries of racism are slapped away so easily with people not giving them a second thought? It's because of the incessant cries of racism at every turn even in situations when none exist including your rant above.

The Brown case is another example of this. This case is continually being held up as an example of racism in how police deal with the African-American community. Is it possible that Wilson was a racist? Sure there is that possibility, but it certainly is not obvious.

As I've said before, I believe that there are certainly some bad cops that are racists. But to hold up this case as the war cry over how blacks are treated by police and racism in general is doing the overall argument a disservice. It will most likely be brushed aside and we will be left with the visuals of riots in Ferguson.

Overall Net Effect: Negative to the overall cause.

 

[phgreek]

We don't disagree here at all. I'll rephrase my hypothetical ... how long is "non-racist" America going to sit back and let those infected with the sickness of racism continue to do harm?

Racism did not end the day the nation elected a black president. Indeed, post election, it seems to have made racism more openly apparent. No president has been treated with the disrespect that Obama has over the past six years. Disagreement happens with every president and his rivals. Who screams out "liar" in an open session of Congress when he is speaking? Who wags their finger in the president's face on the runway of an airport? Who accuses the president of being from a different country, thereby questioning his citizenship and legitimacy as to serve? What president has endured a systematic and openly discussed plan by his allies to say no to everything he proposes? The minority leader in the Senate openly said in Obama's first term that their number one priority was to ensure that Obama didn't get a second term -- at the exclusion of passing any substanative legislation whatsoever. His signature piece of legislation has been challenged more than 50 times in Congress and several more times in the courts. The government was shut down, deals to acomodate republicans were ignored and mocked all to ensure that he would have no success in helping the Americna people -- all for transparent, base political gain. Political correctness might have hidden racism under several layers of superficial civility for a while, but when a black man was elected president, the sickness came back with a vengence. So forgive me if I roll my eyes at your example of how a black man being elected proves anything about the nature of racism in this country other than it is still alive and well.

"how long is "non-racist" America going to sit back and let those infected with the sickness of racism continue to do harm?"

...it is an interesting question...albeit, I'm guessing a little loaded

Probably more people might jump in had you refrained from asserting the notion that the rebuke of Mr. Obama was race-based in the face of alot of deep policy differences, and conduct contrary to the type of conduct he promised which garnered much of the goodwill responsible for his election. The inclusion of MR. Obama's "plight" may be co-incidental...but it is certainly not inviting a discussion nonetheless.

Honestly, on here, what passes for "racist" seems to be someone with a view not tightly in line with a specific narrative...the only "facts" that seem unimpeachable are those in line with the narrative...its just all really too convenient to be able to condemn people and institutions, and thereby discredit and dismiss any source of information as just "part of the problem".

This thread is not even approaching a balanced discussion...and if taken as representative of the nation...well, not shocked where we are...and why the narrative dies out quickly after major issues.

EDIT: no idea why the post looks funny...??? Fixed by spoon feeding from wizards

 

[wizards8507]

EDIT: no idea why the post looks funny...???

Put a bracket at the biggining: [

 

[phgreek]

[/I]

"how long is "non-racist" America going to sit back and let those infected with the sickness of racism continue to do harm?"

...it is an interesting question...albeit, I'm guessing a little loaded

Probably more people might jump in had you refrained from asserting the notion that the rebuke of Mr. Obama was race-based in the face of alot of deep policy differences, and conduct contrary to the type of conduct he promised which garnered much of the goodwill responsible for his election. The inclusion of MR. Obama's "plight" may be co-incidental...but it is certainly not inviting a discussion nonetheless.

Honestly, on here, what passes for "racist" seems to be someone with a view not tightly in line with a specific narrative...the only "facts" that seem unimpeachable are those in line with the narrative...its just all really too convenient to be able to condemn people and institutions, and thereby discredit and dismiss any source of information as just "part of the problem".

This thread is not even approaching a balanced discussion...and if taken as representative of the nation...well, not shocked where we are...and why the narrative dies out quickly after major issues.

EDIT: no idea why the post looks funny...???

Put a bracket at the biggining: [[/QUOTE]
oh...HTML getting soft I guess ...thanks

 

[wizards8507]

<iframe width='416' height='234' src='http://www.cnn.com/video/api/embed.html#/video/crime/2014/12/03/ctn-bts-barkley-ferguson-race-police.cnn' frameborder='0'></iframe>

 

[ulukinatme]

 

[GoIrish41]

So to summarize, you believe that Republicans are racist and that specifically Republicans in Congress are racist and that is why they did all of the things that you mentioned above.

Give me a break. You wonder why cries of racism are slapped away so easily with people not giving them a second thought? It's because of the incessant cries of racism at every turn even in situations when none exist including your rant above.

The Brown case is another example of this. This case is continually being held up as an example of racism in how police deal with the African-American community. Is it possible that Wilson was a racist? Sure there is that possibility, but it certainly is not obvious.

As I've said before, I believe that there are certainly some bad cops that are racists. But to hold up this case as the war cry over how blacks are treated by police and racism in general is doing the overall argument a disservice/ It will most likely be brushed aside and we will be left with the visuals of riots in Ferguson.

Overall Net Effect: Negative to the overall cause.

Which is exactly why I'm not doing that. Read back and you will see that I made the same point within the past couple of days. That said, the fact that you seem to be able to simply dismiss all of the claims that I made above as absolutely having nothing to do with race strikes me as the other side of the coin of a person who makes everything about race. Are you certain that none of those things had anything to do with race? Obviously they appear to me that way. Maybe the "incessant cries of racism at every turn" are valid in more instances than you are willing to accept. I think if we look at things with an open mind we are able to see beyond what our guts tell us. Maybe your quick reaction that these instances where people blame race happen "even when there is (no racism) there" is part of the problem. It is an apathetic approach to something that a huge portion of this country sees as a major problem. I'm not picking on you ab2cmiller, but looking at the whole of the posts in this thread. It seems that many don't see perceived racial issues as a problem. Others acknowledge that there may be a problem, but are willling (perhaps for political gain or to avoid confrontation) to let it stand . Others definately know there is a problem, and choose to do nothing. None of this moves to solve anything. Racism is a problem for no other reason than so many of our fellow citiizens perceive it as one. In my opinion we should ask ourselves what we are willing to do to fix it, instead of calling bullshit every time someone says there is a racial element to an issue.

 

[NoJusticeNoPeace]

Sad that Garner's death couldn't even get an indictment even with the illegal restraint on camera.

 

[T Town Tommy]

Which is exactly why I'm not doing that. Read back and you will see that I made the same point within the past couple of days. That said, the fact that you seem to be able to simply dismiss all of the claims that I made above as absolutely having nothing to do with race strikes me as the other side of the coin of a person who makes everything about race. Are you certain that none of those things had anything to do with race? Obviously they appear to me that way. Maybe the "incessant cries of racism at every turn" are valid in more instances than you are willing to accept. I think if we look at things with an open mind we are able to see beyond what our guts tell us. Maybe your quick reaction that these instances where people blame race happen "even when there is (no racism) there" is part of the problem. It is an apathetic approach to something that a huge portion of this country sees as a major problem. I'm not picking on you ab2cmiller, but looking at the whole of the posts in this thread. It seems that many don't see perceived racial issues as a problem. Others acknowledge that there may be a problem, but are willling (perhaps for political gain or to avoid confrontation) to let it stand . Others definately know there is a problem, and choose to do nothing. None of this moves to solve anything. Racism is a problem for no other reason than so many of our fellow citiizens perceive it as one. In my opinion we should ask ourselves what we are willing to do to fix it, instead of calling bullshit every time someone says there is a racial element to an issue.

Racism exists. So does claims of racism that really aren't racist at all. So does racism toward whites. Probably the largest segment of society today that is openly discriminated against is the white, heterosexual male. Why? Because we have a liberal media and a liberal section of our society that tries to tell us that if we don't think like them, accept the things they accept, agree on hot button social topics such as gay marriage, then we are racist, elitist, pigs.

It appears liberals are very happy and very inclusive... when everyone thinks, believes, and acts like them. If not, then we hear all the claims that have reared their ugly head in this case.

 

[wizards8507]

Sad that Garner's death couldn't even get an indictment even with the illegal restraint on camera.

He died of cardiac arrest, not from the "illegal restraint."