Rioting in St Louis

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Ferguson Nightly Briefing

Ferguson Nightly Briefing

St Louis Co Police Chief and Captain Johnson gave a nightly report.

26 arrested
150 shots fired
No shots fired by police
A dozen or more building burned
Burning cars
They claimed some difficulty controlling street traffic due to the burning of police cars. (I only recall one police car afire but heard no other reports as I flipped through the channels).


Question about why no National Guard Troops on the streets.
Plan was for them to guard police stations and other infrastructure so police and troopers trained in crowed control could be freed up to deal with the crowd.

Both the Chief and Johnson commented that last summer outside agitators were the primary culprits. Tonight was on us, the residents of Ferguson. I didn't hear any stats on whether the arrested were locals or out of towners/staters. Both had hoped the demonstrations would be free of violence and both expressed regret that they weren't.

 

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Gov Orders More Guard To Ferguson

Gov Orders More Guard To Ferguson

Ferguson: Fires and chaos erupts after no indictment - CNN.com

 

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Peaceful National Demonstrations Around The Country

Peaceful National Demonstrations Around The Country

Protests spread far beyond Ferguson - CNN.com

 

[kmoose]

If you have to ask...

Many of those tweets are downright disgusting.

 

[Irish Insanity]

Hopefully all of the IE ers in the area, and their families, were (and still are) able to stay safe.

 

[DomerInHappyValley]

We need another MLK Jr. This violence does nothing to help anyone all it's doing is reinforcing negative stereotypes.

 

[Irish#1]

They are peacefully assembling and they have for over 99% of the time.

Using a percentage makes it hard for anyone to quantify, but let's just say you were wrong here. I saw too many cars and buildings on fire when I caught the news this morning.

 

[Irish#1]

Don't leave out the important part. Original witnesses said Wilson stood over his body and fired multiple rounds into his back which was a complete lie. And there's no gun in his hand in this pic.

 

[kmoose]

Chris Cuomo, a well known communist, of CNN keeps talking about how Wilson's testimony before the grand jury "wasn't challenged". Maybe one of our attorneys on here could explain what that means? I thought that grand jury testimony was NOT "an argument", and therefore not cross examined?

 

[Irish#1]

People are oppressed and angry. I hope every cop car is burned.

Nice sentiment. Let's set cars on fire, which may in turn blow up and hurt people.

So if I am summarizing your position correctly and I believe I am;
1. All official parties involved covered up all evidence that might have led to an indictment against Wilson.
2. The witnesses who originally stated Wilson stood over Brown and fired bullets into his back were forced to change their minds by the authorities.
3. At the autopsy, the coroner took pictures of another black persons back that was void of gun shot wounds to refute the witnesses.
4. The pictures of Wilson's face with red marks from being hit were fabricated.
5. Our president is being held down and oppressed by the white congress.
6. The outburst of cars and buildings set on fire is being done covertly by the authorities so they can say, "See I told you so".
7. This all happened because we have a war on drugs.

Explain this to me. When OJ was tried for murder and found not guilty, why didn't the white community riot and burn cars and buildings?

 

[Irish#1]

Cuz I'm the onlyear one who think it's still an issue.

You are so wrong about that. Your problem is that everyone else who believes race is still an issue don't believe in solving problems with violent protest and hoping cops die.

Your position is quite clear. If someone doesn't agree with you, they are wrong. If facts prove you wrong, someone fabricated them. You avoid discussing the issues by responding with simple sentences instead of providing more detail and facts to support your position. If you really want to solve these issues, get rid of your tunnel vision. Not every white person or white cop is out to get every black person.

 

[Irish#1]

Anger is rational here. Anger is empathy, sadness, caring, everything. It just makes people uncomfortable.

Anger is okay until it turns physical which happens too often. That's why people are uncomfortable with it.

 

[wizards8507]

80 arrests, only one for arson. 25 fires.

 

[kmoose]

80 arrests, only one for arson. 25 fires.

So 1 for arson, 79 for being black?

 

[dublinirish]

We need another MLK Jr. This violence does nothing to help anyone all it's doing is reinforcing negative stereotypes.

MLK Jr. did all the non violence thing and ended up getting shot in the face.

 

[BleedBlueGold]

Unrelated to Ferguson, but I can't seem to find an answer for my question regarding the young kid who was shot and killed in Cleveland. Was this police office African American or Caucasian?

 

[dublinirish]

Unrelated to Ferguson, but I can't seem to find an answer for my question regarding the young kid who was shot and killed in Cleveland. Was this police office African American or Caucasian?

officers have not been made public. They were placed on three days' paid administrative leave, and will be on restricted duty when they return, police said.

Police: Video clearly shows shooting of Ohio boy, 12

"This is not a black and white issue. This is a right and wrong issue," attorney Tim Kucharski said.

from that im guessing the officer was black

 

[BleedBlueGold]

Police: Video clearly shows shooting of Ohio boy, 12

That's all I seem to be finding as well. Not to derail the thread, but are they not disclosing this information because the police office is white and they want to prevent a riot in Cleveland?

The cynic in me (along with my hatred for the media) is torn: 1) If the police officer is black; (a) it's a non-story for the media (b) but it may be info the police dept should disclose 2) If the police officer is white; (a) it'd be all over the news...again (b) reasons why the police dept should not disclose.

 

[connor_in]

SIAP

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en data-scribe-reduced-action-queue="><p>CNN anchor gets hit by a rock while reporting <a href="https://t.co/w8Hy71wcPJ">https://t.co/w8Hy71wcPJ</a></p>— Marcus Gilmer (@marcusgilmer) <a href="https://twitter.com/marcusgilmer/status/537126702619824128">November 25, 2014</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

 

[connor_in]

MLK Jr. did all the non violence thing and ended up getting shot in the face.

...and he is remembered to this day as a man who stood up to violence with peace...not forgotten or reviled as a bloodthirsty thug

 

[IrishLax]

It's been a mixed bag for me. When I was a kid growing up in Kern County my family was exposed to some of the worst kind of police behavior. My dad was a labor organizer and he was arrested more times than I can count during peacefull protests and while on picket lines. Beat downs with mag flash lights and night sticks were standard practice and one of his fellow organizers was beat to death by the Sherrifs department. Anyhow, I still get nervous any time a cop car gets behind me even though I've never been arrested and it's been like 10 years since I've had a speeding ticket. I immediately go through a mental check list regarding insurance, tags, tail lights, wallet.

The thing is, I'd love to see more posts like this then half the shit I see on social media or from the artist formerly known as Title2012/Title2014/Title2114.

I firmly believe that in a lot of places across the country the "police state" issue is VERY real, and I also believe that Ferguson (and more the subsequent actions by police than the actual killing itself) is a rather strong illustration of a lot of things working poorly. But rather than anyone try to pragmatically discuss what these discreet issues are and how they should be fixed, it's WHITE COPS SYSTEMATICALLY MURDER INNOCENT BLACK CHILDREN when fatal shooting statistics for police clearly show that's not true.

IMO, the discussion should be about excessive force and empowerment of police officers that leads to a lack of accountability.

One VERY EASY mitigation through technology would simply be to make it mandatory that all police officers keep fully functional functional dash cams w/ audio running on their cruisers 24 hours a day that backup to the cloud. This wouldn't even be that expensive. And you could have them all wear chest cams as well that turn on automatically any time they exit their vehicle. This would immediately cut down on certain cops ability to operate in the margins where "conflicting accounts" is all they need to avoid consequences for their actions. It would also help THEM in the case where they're doing the right thing.

 

[irishff1014]

I wish I owned a store in ferguson I bet my store wouldn't have been looted!

 

[tussin]

The thing is, I'd love to see more posts like this then half the shit I see on social media or from the artist formerly known as Title2012/Title2014/Title2114.

I firmly believe that in a lot of places across the country the "police state" issue is VERY real, and I also believe that Ferguson (and more the subsequent actions by police than the actual killing itself) is a rather strong illustration of a lot of things working poorly. But rather than anyone try to pragmatically discuss what these discreet issues are and how they should be fixed, it's WHITE COPS SYSTEMATICALLY MURDER INNOCENT BLACK CHILDREN when fatal shooting statistics for police clearly show that's not true.

IMO, the discussion should be about excessive force and empowerment of police officers that leads to a lack of accountability.

One VERY EASY mitigation through technology would simply be to make it mandatory that all police officers keep fully functional functional dash cams w/ audio running on their cruisers 24 hours a day that backup to the cloud. This wouldn't even be that expensive. And you could have them all wear chest cams as well that turn on automatically any time they exit their vehicle. This would immediately cut down on certain cops ability to operate in the margins where "conflicting accounts" is all they need to avoid consequences for their actions. It would also help THEM in the case where they're doing the right thing.

I tried to start this discussion yesterday and it went nowhere.

 

[connor_in]

Justice Was Served in Ferguson - This Isn't Jim Crow America - The Daily Beast

 

[GoIrish41]

The thing is, I'd love to see more posts like this then half the shit I see on social media or from the artist formerly known as Title2012/Title2014/Title2114.

I firmly believe that in a lot of places across the country the "police state" issue is VERY real, and I also believe that Ferguson (and more the subsequent actions by police than the actual killing itself) is a rather strong illustration of a lot of things working poorly. But rather than anyone try to pragmatically discuss what these discreet issues are and how they should be fixed, it's WHITE COPS SYSTEMATICALLY MURDER INNOCENT BLACK CHILDREN when fatal shooting statistics for police clearly show that's not true.

IMO, the discussion should be about excessive force and empowerment of police officers that leads to a lack of accountability.

One VERY EASY mitigation through technology would simply be to make it mandatory that all police officers keep fully functional functional dash cams w/ audio running on their cruisers 24 hours a day that backup to the cloud. This wouldn't even be that expensive. And you could have them all wear chest cams as well that turn on automatically any time they exit their vehicle. This would immediately cut down on certain cops ability to operate in the margins where "conflicting accounts" is all they need to avoid consequences for their actions. It would also help THEM in the case where they're doing the right thing.

This is a good post Lax. I think the bolded is right on the mark.

This certainly isn't directed on you, Lax, but more of a mini rant on my feelings about this whole situation. While I absolutely dispise the violence that is happening as a result of this grand jury decision I think there is good reason for anger among the protestors. I wish they would react to their anger in such a way that does not harm others, but I understand their outrage. And I think that if we are all honest with ourselves, we ALL understand their outrage. I've read many posts in this thread that simply discount that the experience of a poor black person in the inner city is different than a middle class white person in the burbs. There is ample evidence to the contrary. Black people disproportunately fill our prisons even though they are a minority in this country. Do they commit more crimes (I doubt it, but even if they do, the question that should be asked is why they do). The excessive force and empowerment of police is a absolutely a crucial issue, but when the small minority of those police officers who have certain attitudes about blacks, such as they are all lazy, they are all criminals, they are all thugs -- that brings a racial element into the discussion. Many will argue that race has no place in this issue. I believe they are purposely ingoring what is plainly a part of American society. I do not advocate the violent actions that went on in Ferguson last night, but at the same time, what are black people who feel like they are being unfairly, and often violently, mistreated by servants of the people to do to bring about change? Their pleas for fairness have gone unanswered for decades? It really seems unrealistic to me that they would not escalate their efforts, even if in this case I believe they have taken it in a direction I cannot condone. I agree that dash cams and body cams are a good start, but there also has to be empathy for people who are not given a fair shake and who are demonized by many for being poor, or acting with desperation when their lives are often desperate. Are there thugs in the black communities of this country -- absolutely. Just as there are overzealous and even racist police officers entrusted to serve the common good. In either case, these are not representatives of the vast majority of their peers. And it is just as wrong to say all cops are bad as it is to say all blacks are gangbanging thugs. What outlet do African Americans who believe in their hearts that they are being wronged have to bring about the change to society that will allow them to be simply citizens, and not black citizens with all of the negative connotations that come along with being poor and black and living in the inner city with far more obsticles to overcome than most people in this country? I remain astonished by this nation's lack of empathy and I feel for the families of the victims of this crime and the many similar crimes that happen across this country every day.

 

[irishff1014]

There are also a number of massive fires along W. Florissant Ave that the FD can't get to because the area is deemed unsafe. They were battling one at a storage unit but were sent off, leaving their hoses in the street, because of gunfire in the area.

I don't know if y'all are getting this info from the national news. Sorry if it's out there and I'm being redundant.

Good thing i am not the fire Chief. I wouldn't put my guys out there in this mess.

 

[irishff1014]

This is a good post Lax. I think the bolded is right on the mark.

This certainly isn't directed on you, Lax, but more of a mini rant on my feelings about this whole situation. While I absolutely dispise the violence that is happening as a result of this grand jury decision I think there is good reason for anger among the protestors. I wish they would react to their anger in such a way that does not harm others, but I understand their outrage. And I think that if we are all honest with ourselves, we ALL understand their outrage. I've read many posts in this thread that simply discount that the experience of a poor black person in the inner city is different than a middle class white person in the burbs. There is ample evidence to the contrary. Black people disproportunately fill our prisons even though they are a minority in this country. Do they commit more crimes (I doubt it, but even if they do, the question that should be asked is why they do). The excessive force and empowerment of police is a absolutely a crucial issue, but when the small minority of those police officers who have certain attitudes about blacks, such as they are all lazy, they are all criminals, they are all thugs -- that brings a racial element into the discussion. Many will argue that race has no place in this issue. I believe they are purposely ingoring what is plainly a part of American society. I do not advocate the violent actions that went on in Ferguson last night, but at the same time, what are black people who feel like they are being unfairly, and often violently, mistreated by servants of the people to do to bring about change? Their pleas for fairness have gone unanswered for decades? It really seems unrealistic to me that they would not escalate their efforts, even if in this case I believe they have taken it in a direction I cannot condone. I agree that dash cams and body cams are a good start, but there also has to be empathy for people who are not given a fair shake and who are demonized by many for being poor, or acting with desperation when their lives are often desperate. Are there thugs in the black communities of this country -- absolutely. Just as there are overzealous and even racist police officers entrusted to serve the common good. In either case, these are not representatives of the vast majority of their peers. And it is just as wrong to say all cops are bad as it is to say all blacks are gangbanging thugs. What outlet do African Americans who believe in their hearts that they are being wronged have to bring about the change to society that will allow them to be simply citizens, and not black citizens with all of the negative connotations that come along with being poor and black and living in the inner city with far more obsticles to overcome than most people in this country? I remain astonished by this nation's lack of empathy and I feel for the families of the victims of this crime and the many similar crimes that happen across this country every day.

Lets face it of course there is bad officers. But a lot of the times it's when they first get out of the academy. They get their bad and become 10 foot tall and bullet proof. They think they have to prove they can be stern instead of doing what they are supposed too. But on that same token that happens withe Ceo's everywhere. I don't like this person i want this person to run this dept.

I want to give you a prime example.

BWI airport fire dept this summer open up like 15 positions due to people leaving or retiring. So they open the process up. You have to take a written exam, an interview, a physical test called Cpat. Well once they go to this point they didn't have enough minorities pass this process. So they canceled the whole process. I know this is race/sexual orientation that we are dealing with. How is it fair that these people went and did what they were supposed to and know wasted hours and roughly 200 dolllars because they didn't have enough minorities get this far? That then is racist/sexiest against a white male.

 

[DomerInHappyValley]

MLK Jr. did all the non violence thing and ended up getting shot in the face.

And yet you'd be hard pressed to find someone who's done more for race relations in this country.

 

[Polish Leppy 22]

This is a good post Lax. I think the bolded is right on the mark.

This certainly isn't directed on you, Lax, but more of a mini rant on my feelings about this whole situation. While I absolutely dispise the violence that is happening as a result of this grand jury decision I think there is good reason for anger among the protestors. I wish they would react to their anger in such a way that does not harm others, but I understand their outrage. And I think that if we are all honest with ourselves, we ALL understand their outrage. I've read many posts in this thread that simply discount that the experience of a poor black person in the inner city is different than a middle class white person in the burbs. There is ample evidence to the contrary. Black people disproportunately fill our prisons even though they are a minority in this country. Do they commit more crimes (I doubt it, but even if they do, the question that should be asked is why they do). The excessive force and empowerment of police is a absolutely a crucial issue, but when the small minority of those police officers who have certain attitudes about blacks, such as they are all lazy, they are all criminals, they are all thugs -- that brings a racial element into the discussion. Many will argue that race has no place in this issue. I believe they are purposely ingoring what is plainly a part of American society. I do not advocate the violent actions that went on in Ferguson last night, but at the same time, what are black people who feel like they are being unfairly, and often violently, mistreated by servants of the people to do to bring about change? Their pleas for fairness have gone unanswered for decades? It really seems unrealistic to me that they would not escalate their efforts, even if in this case I believe they have taken it in a direction I cannot condone. I agree that dash cams and body cams are a good start, but there also has to be empathy for people who are not given a fair shake and who are demonized by many for being poor, or acting with desperation when their lives are often desperate. Are there thugs in the black communities of this country -- absolutely. Just as there are overzealous and even racist police officers entrusted to serve the common good. In either case, these are not representatives of the vast majority of their peers. And it is just as wrong to say all cops are bad as it is to say all blacks are gangbanging thugs. What outlet do African Americans who believe in their hearts that they are being wronged have to bring about the change to society that will allow them to be simply citizens, and not black citizens with all of the negative connotations that come along with being poor and black and living in the inner city with far more obsticles to overcome than most people in this country? I remain astonished by this nation's lack of empathy and I feel for the families of the victims of this crime and the many similar crimes that happen across this country every day.

Disappointed that you've forgotten what most people's reactions were on here when this thing first happened.

Almost everything I saw was, "Awful situation. Feel for the family. No one should ever have to go through this. Hope it doesn't turn into a race war down there."

 

[dublinirish]

And yet you'd be hard pressed to find someone who's done more for race relations in this country.

my point is that the people protesting right now are feeling that the work MLK Jr did hasn't them gotten where they want to be: living in a country that that truly provides them with equality.

I'm sure they feel silent protesting isn't getting things done and they are angry.
As regards the uproar about burning flags. I'm sure people who were offended by it are proud of their country and the opportunity it provides them. The flag burners obviously do not share these views.