Rees vs Golson/Hendrix

[NDinL.A.]

Pretty much how everyone who wants Rees benched feels about those who don't.... Brah

Really...who's a better option? Deer-in-headlights Crist? Golson, a true freshman who only knows 20% of the playbook and will undoubtedly make MORE mistakes than Rees? Hendrix, who was so far behind Crist and Rees in practice he couldn't even get into the conversation??? Who should we go with???

I was screaming at the TV more than anyone yesterday, and I was hoping for Crist to get another shot...in the heat of the moment b/c the offense needed a spark. But thank God I'm not the head coach because when the offense NEEDED a spark, like always, Tommy got the job done. No way in hell do you pull him AFTER 2 wins, especially when Crist plays HORRIBLY from behind.

If Rees continues to play horribly, and we lose, then I can see you wanting to go with the freshmen. But as long as we are winning and a good bowl game is still in sight and USC and Stanford are still on your schedule, no way in hell do you make the change yet.

And BK loves Rees and is sticking with him, so get used to it. As long as we win, then I'm gonna back the coach in this instance. He really doesn't have much choice now does he?

 

[GBdomer]

this board after a football game is the funniest thing to read.

 

[IrishLax]

For what it's worth.... Ben Roethlisberger in the first half of this game is making Tommy Rees look like a ball protecting God. Holy f*ck would I be pissed off if I was a Steelers fan.

 

[ND_HAS_RISEN]

Really...who's a better option? Deer-in-headlights Crist? Golson, a true freshman who only knows 20% of the playbook and will undoubtedly make MORE mistakes than Rees? Hendrix, who was so far behind Crist and Rees in practice he couldn't even get into the conversation??? Who should we go with???

I was screaming at the TV more than anyone yesterday, and I was hoping for Crist to get another shot...in the heat of the moment b/c the offense needed a spark. But thank God I'm not the head coach because when the offense NEEDED a spark, like always, Tommy got the job done. No way in hell do you pull him AFTER 2 wins, especially when Crist plays HORRIBLY from behind.

If Rees continues to play horribly, and we lose, then I can see you wanting to go with the freshmen. But as long as we are winning and a good bowl game is still in sight and USC and Stanford are still on your schedule, no way in hell do you make the change yet.

And BK loves Rees and is sticking with him, so get used to it. As long as we win, then I'm gonna back the coach in this instance. He really doesn't have much choice now does he?

I don't necessarily think it has to be Hendrix/Golsen to take over. As for only knowing 20-30% of the playbook... Which playbook? The playbook that BK "could" run, or the one that he has Rees doing? It wouldn't be that hard for anybody to pick up Rees's playbook if they got all the reps in practice.

I'm done arguing about it though. Nothing you say will change my mind, and nothing I say will change your mind or any other Rees supporter.

 

[HereComeTheIrish]

Really...who's a better option? Deer-in-headlights Crist? Golson, a true freshman who only knows 20% of the playbook and will undoubtedly make MORE mistakes than Rees? Hendrix, who was so far behind Crist and Rees in practice he couldn't even get into the conversation??? Who should we go with???

I was screaming at the TV more than anyone yesterday, and I was hoping for Crist to get another shot...in the heat of the moment b/c the offense needed a spark. But thank God I'm not the head coach because when the offense NEEDED a spark, like always, Tommy got the job done. No way in hell do you pull him AFTER 2 wins, especially when Crist plays HORRIBLY from behind.

If Rees continues to play horribly, and we lose, then I can see you wanting to go with the freshmen. But as long as we are winning and a good bowl game is still in sight and USC and Stanford are still on your schedule, no way in hell do you make the change yet.

And BK loves Rees and is sticking with him, so get used to it. As long as we win, then I'm gonna back the coach in this instance. He really doesn't have much choice now does he?

Couldn't have said it better myself.

 

[HereComeTheIrish]

I don't necessarily think it has to be Hendrix/Golsen to take over. As for only knowing 20-30% of the playbook... Which playbook? The playbook that BK "could" run, or the one that he has Rees doing? It wouldn't be that hard for anybody to pick up Rees's playbook if they got all the reps in practice.

I'm done arguing about it though. Nothing you say will change my mind, and nothing I say will change your mind or any other Rees supporter.

We Are ND.... Right??? It has nothing to do with this guy or that... It has to do with ND. And at this time, BK feels that Tommy gives us the best chance to win.

 

[kmoose]

having an opinion on what we (The people who think Rees needs to be benched) feel is a major problem is totally justified given the QB play we have all seen.

That's fine, but come with some kind of convincing argument. Don't make sh!t up like, "We were told before the season that Crist won the QB competition hands down.", or "The Tulsa loss is on Rees.", or "Rees isn't mobile enough to win in Kelly's offense." Give us a compelling reason to see your opinion is of value.

 

[Kak7304]

For what it's worth.... Ben Roethlisberger in the first half of this game is making Tommy Rees look like a ball protecting God. Holy f*ck would I be pissed off if I was a Steelers fan.

Tom Brady wasn't much better.

 

[ND_HAS_RISEN]

That's fine, but come with some kind of convincing argument. Don't make sh!t up like, "We were told before the season that Crist won the QB competition hands down.", or "The Tulsa loss is on Rees.", or "Rees isn't mobile enough to win in Kelly's offense." Give us a compelling reason to see your opinion is of value.

Watch the games.

And tell me how Crist earning the starting nod before the season isn't compelling? If he won the battle then he was clearly better than Rees. At least with everyone saying you trust BK with his decision... Crist's first half against USF in the first game of the season wasn't nearly as bad as the 3 games that Rees has played since he took over.

If you all trust BK so much, then how is that arguement not compelling?

 

[Kingbish01]

I would like to see Dayne pull a Russell Wilson. If I was yanked after a bad half of the first game and didn't get another shot after the way Rees has been playing....I would be looking at my options.

 

[Old Man Mike]

kmoose: You may be asking for too much [albeit rationally]. Very few posters on this board bring anything with any depth to it to the table when they give opinions. If they actually attempted thorough arguments for any of this ["thorough" meaning taking the other side fully into consideration before concluding], there would be far more light and far less heat emitted. And it all would contain much less name-calling and much more humility. But as this is a "shallow hobby" and few want to do any work, we are what we are. Grin, and [mostly] bear it.

 

[meowmix]

Really...who's a better option? Deer-in-headlights Crist? Golson, a true freshman who only knows 20% of the playbook and will undoubtedly make MORE mistakes than Rees? Hendrix, who was so far behind Crist and Rees in practice he couldn't even get into the conversation??? Who should we go with???

I was screaming at the TV more than anyone yesterday, and I was hoping for Crist to get another shot...in the heat of the moment b/c the offense needed a spark. But thank God I'm not the head coach because when the offense NEEDED a spark, like always, Tommy got the job done. No way in hell do you pull him AFTER 2 wins, especially when Crist plays HORRIBLY from behind.

If Rees continues to play horribly, and we lose, then I can see you wanting to go with the freshmen. But as long as we are winning and a good bowl game is still in sight and USC and Stanford are still on your schedule, no way in hell do you make the change yet.

And BK loves Rees and is sticking with him, so get used to it. As long as we win, then I'm gonna back the coach in this instance. He really doesn't have much choice now does he?

While I agree with most of your sentiments, the bolded part is totally untrue. Did you already forget scUM 2010? Our deer-in-the-headlights, doesn't-know-what-to-do, horrible then-starting qb Crist scored 24 points. I wanted Crist to play and think we could have won with him playing. Obviously, this doesn't matter now. I don't care who plays as long as ND wins. On a side note, I was watching the irish connection video 9 and Kelly says that Pitt has a multitude of coverages and that they would have to keep the plays simple for Tommy. This made me feel a little better because I was pretty appalled by some of the play-calls, but it makes sense when you realize that they game-planned knowing that Pitt was going to throw everything they had at Rees. I have no doubt he'll bounce back and have a monster game vs. Purdue. Then we can see how Hendrix does (I hope Golson redshirts).

 

[HereComeTheIrish]

While I agree with most of your sentiments, the bolded part is totally untrue. Did you already forget scUM 2010? Our deer-in-the-headlights, doesn't-know-what-to-do, horrible then-starting qb Crist scored 24 points. I wanted Crist to play and think we could have won with him playing. Obviously, this doesn't matter now. I don't care who plays as long as ND wins. On a side note, I was watching the irish connection video 9 and Kelly says that Pitt has a multitude of coverages and that they would have to keep the plays simple for Tommy. This made me feel a little better because I was pretty appalled by some of the play-calls, but it makes sense when you realize that they game-planned knowing that Pitt was going to throw everything they had at Rees. I have no doubt he'll bounce back and have a monster game vs. Purdue. Then we can see how Hendrix does (I hope Golson redshirts).

Good post.

 

[kmoose]

Watch the games.

And tell me how Crist earning the starting nod before the season isn't compelling? If he won the battle then he was clearly better than Rees. At least with everyone saying you trust BK with his decision... Crist's first half against USF in the first game of the season wasn't nearly as bad as the 3 games that Rees has played since he took over.

If you all trust BK so much, then how is that arguement not compelling?

Quit talking like Crist blew Rees away, in earning the starting nod. Kelly constantly said that it was too close to call. Then his self imposed deadline came, and he named Crist the starter. Crist's one half gave him a QB Rating of 86.5. Rees' QB Rating is 133.6. So don't try to sell me that Rees has been worse than Crist's one half. Again, give me something to go with. Quit making false statements and give me a reason to say, "You might be on to something there."

I'm not attached to Rees in any way. I want the guy who gives us the best chance to start. I've not so much been defending Rees, as I've been punching holes in the "logic" of those who have been down on him since he took his first snap, in the second half of the USF game. I've yet to see anyone come up with a compelling argument. The first argument that I heard was that he wasn't mobile enough to run Kelly's offense. Well, Tony Pike was not mobile, either, and he ran Kelly's offense just fine. Then I heard that he could manage a game, but he couldn't lead a winning rally. I haven't heard that, after the Pitt game. Now, someone is claiming that he is too short to throw a screen pass. I have a prediction...........

If Rees is still the starter, going into Stanford week, someone on here will claim that we should bench him because he shot JFK!!!

 

[NDinL.A.]

While I agree with most of your sentiments, the bolded part is totally untrue. Did you already forget scUM 2010? Our deer-in-the-headlights, doesn't-know-what-to-do, horrible then-starting qb Crist scored 24 points. I wanted Crist to play and think we could have won with him playing. Obviously, this doesn't matter now. I don't care who plays as long as ND wins. On a side note, I was watching the irish connection video 9 and Kelly says that Pitt has a multitude of coverages and that they would have to keep the plays simple for Tommy. This made me feel a little better because I was pretty appalled by some of the play-calls, but it makes sense when you realize that they game-planned knowing that Pitt was going to throw everything they had at Rees. I have no doubt he'll bounce back and have a monster game vs. Purdue. Then we can see how Hendrix does (I hope Golson redshirts).

I LOVE Dayne Crist and was pining for him to start the season. But he plays horribly when the chips are down. That Michigan comeback was great, but that was the last time he played well from behind. (And relive the game again...he got us that TD pass to TJ Jones, and then nothing until the last drive. But that pass to Rudolph was friggin' nails, no doubt.) His best game, vs. MSU, he sucked in the 4th quarter, and had a huge fumble. Against Navy, when we went down, he was absolutely awful. Stanford...got us out to a 3-0 lead, and then was under 50% the rest of the game - awful playing from behind (but that loss wasn't on him). And then this year, once Gray's fumble happened and the tide turned, he was downright putrid.

So one game, his first time playing from behind, he did well, and then after that, he's been really bad the next 4 times that the team has been down. Meanwhile, when the team needs a drive, no matter how poorly he has played, Rees delivers. It's uncanny. And that's why BK trusts him so damn much. And again, what other option is there, you know?

 

[ND_HAS_RISEN]

Quit talking like Crist blew Rees away, in earning the starting nod. Kelly constantly said that it was too close to call. Then his self imposed deadline came, and he named Crist the starter. Crist's one half gave him a QB Rating of 86.5. Rees' QB Rating is 133.6. So don't try to sell me that Rees has been worse than Crist's one half. Again, give me something to go with. Quit making false statements and give me a reason to say, "You might be on to something there."

I'm not attached to Rees in any way. I want the guy who gives us the best chance to start. I've not so much been defending Rees, as I've been punching holes in the "logic" of those who have been down on him since he took his first snap, in the second half of the USF game. I've yet to see anyone come up with a compelling argument. The first argument that I heard was that he wasn't mobile enough to run Kelly's offense. Well, Tony Pike was not mobile, either, and he ran Kelly's offense just fine. Then I heard that he could manage a game, but he couldn't lead a winning rally. I haven't heard that, after the Pitt game. Now, someone is claiming that he is too short to throw a screen pass. I have a prediction...........

If Rees is still the starter, going into Stanford week, someone on here will claim that we should bench him because he shot JFK!!!

I am not saying he blew him away. BK told everyone Dayne won the battle outright in the presser when he announced the decision. He said that it was close, but Crist gave them the best chance at winning. Yet in one half of a football game all that goes out the window?

You are asking to hear a comelling arguement as to why Rees should be benched (I think the the performance speaks for itself..). Why don't you start asking the same questions about why Rees should stay? Lemme guess, cause he's 6-1 as the starter right, and because BK says he is their best shot at winning? BK said the same thing about Dayne 4 weeks ago..

 

[NDinL.A.]

I don't necessarily think it has to be Hendrix/Golsen to take over. As for only knowing 20-30% of the playbook... Which playbook? The playbook that BK "could" run, or the one that he has Rees doing? It wouldn't be that hard for anybody to pick up Rees's playbook if they got all the reps in practice.

I'm done arguing about it though. Nothing you say will change my mind, and nothing I say will change your mind or any other Rees supporter.

Ummm, THE playbook. What other playbook would I be talking about? While Rees can't run everything, he can run WAY more than the freshmen. And it's not even close. It's not just about the knowing the plays, it's about knowing them inside and out, and knowing when to run them and when not to run them, and what the defense is showing you, and what personnel group is in so you can run a certain play out of a certain formation, etc etc etc.

And saying that it wouldn't be hard to run Rees' playbook if they got all the reps is just foolish. Those kids had the same playbook and got a ton of reps in the spring (remember, Kelly was giving all 4 lots of looks), and they STILL were miles behind Rees and Crist.

Something tells me you're not done arguing about it either...

 

[koonja]

Crist had a pretty short leash. One INT in one half of the first game of the year against a good defense.

 

[NDinL.A.]

I am not saying he blew him away. BK told everyone Dayne won the battle outright in the presser when he announced the decision. He said that it was close, but Crist gave them the best chance at winning. Yet in one half of a football game all that goes out the window?

You are asking to hear a comelling arguement as to why Rees should be benched (I think the the performance speaks for itself..). Why don't you start asking the same questions about why Rees should stay? Lemme guess, cause he's 6-1 as the starter right, and because BK says he is their best shot at winning? BK said the same thing about Dayne 4 weeks ago..

You said, "We were told before the season that Crist won the QB competition hands down."

That's a straight lie, and you know it. Own it. We were never told that.

 

[meowmix]

I was discussing the Crist vs. Rees topic with some of my friends on Saturday. Crist, when on a roll (UM, MSU, 1st 2 drives against USF), is very impressive. However, when he makes a bad mistake, (pick in end zone against USF), he freaks out and gets in his own head. He gets tentative and starts air-mailing throws or he gouges out holes in the turf. He also checks down constantly when he's nervous. We know his ceiling's higher but he's so inconsistent after a mistake. Thus far, I think even the biggest Crist fans should still be on board. (For the record, I love Dayne: fantastic guy, very intelligent and polite).

Tommy has a lower ceiling but is VERY consistent. He is more accurate than Crist and is better at reading coverages (when they're not very complicated - like Pitt's: watch the irish connection video 9 where Kelly talks about how they were using a simpler gameplan. they probably didn't devote too much time to pitt's plethora of coverages). So our conclusion was, it's better to have somebody that is consistently GOOD rather than someone who is great for a period of time, makes a mistake, and tanks. In addition, he simply never looks nervous. He's got the mentality of every good kicker: forget the past and do your job. He doesn't let past mistakes make him tentative.

At first, I was arguing that Crist didn't have the benefit of the defense playing beastly and Cierre and Jonas going wild. But think about it. Tommy is much better in the red zone because of his quick release and accuracy. Even his much-maligned Pitt game, his td pass to Duval was gorgeous as was the Floyd td. Dayne doesn't release it fast enough for that. So, in conclusion, both qbs have limitations, but Rees gives us the best chance to win due to his consistent play. I won't even dignify the possibility of an untried redshirt freshman and a 185-pound 18 year old.

Anyway, that's my last contribution to this argument, as it is pointless since Kelly has already deemed Rees the unquestioned starter (evidenced by Rees playing the whole 2nd half) and he knows a hell of a lot more than us.

 

[Who'saWildManNow]

It was either merged with one of the other QB debate threads or deleted.

I see some of your points as valid but do you not think if Kelly thought he had a better option he'd use it? Kelly knows Tommy can't run and he also knows a hell of a lot more about his possible replacements than you, I or anyonelse else on this board. He is following his plan.. greatness takes time and I trust this staff.

Then why name Crist the starter at the beginning of the season? Was his plan to pull the kid after one mediocre half of football?

Obviously not but his plan is to play the guys that can run the system right now and that give ND the best chance to win.. You are sitting at ur computer.. Brian Kelly is running practice. I'm so sick of this argument.

 

[kmoose]

You are asking to hear a comelling arguement as to why Rees should be benched (I think the the performance speaks for itself..). Why don't you start asking the same questions about why Rees should stay?

I don't have to justify the status quo. You, and others, are advocating a major change. The burden of persuasion is on you.

 

[ND_HAS_RISEN]

You said, "We were told before the season that Crist won the QB competition hands down."

That's a straight lie, and you know it. Own it. We were never told that.

Haha, yeap I lied. You caught me.. You've never said something that was taken out of context either.

Should I be waiting for the ban hammer now oh mighty mod?

 

[Kak7304]

Crist had a pretty short leash. One INT in one half of the first game of the year against a good defense.

He made less mistakes than Tommy, but also didn't do as much. 0 pts for ND w/ Crist and 20 w/ Tommy.

 

[koonja]

He made less mistakes than Tommy, but also didn't do as much. 0 pts for ND w/ Crist and 20 w/ Tommy.

Don't start with the points argument. In their careers at ND, Crist has put up five 30+ point games to Rees's 2 (3 if you count the bowl game).

 

[NDinL.A.]

Haha, yeap I lied. You caught me.. You've never said something that was taken out of context either.

Should I be waiting for the ban hammer now oh mighty mod?

Nope, but keep being a prick and I'll definitely grant you that wish.

Out of context??? LOL!!! Hey Terrell Owens, I quoted you word for word, and you said the same thing several times. How was that 'out of context'??? Look, you stay stupid sh!t, get called out on it, and then backpedal like Robert Blanton and talk sh!t about the posters who are calling you out on it instead of just admitting you were wrong or backing up what you said.

 

[NDinL.A.]

Don't start with the points argument. In their careers at ND, Crist has put up five 30+ point games to Rees's 2 (3 if you count the bowl game).

Actually, Crist has 3, and Rees has 3. I'll give you 4 as Crist needed OT to get to 31 vs. MSU (although, if Rees got to play OT vs. Utah the team would have gotten to 30+ as well).

But say we can't go with points, well then, can we go with wins?

And don't discount how the team plays with Rees at the helm. In almost all cases, they are better with Rees under center. The USF game says it all.

Crist got a quick hook, no doubt, but let's not act as if the team plays better with him under center. They just don't.

 

[Kak7304]

Don't start with the points argument. In their careers at ND, Crist has put up five 30+ point games to Rees's 2 (3 if you count the bowl game).

I'm just saying, after the first drive, the offense went stagnant.

 

[koonja]

Actually, Crist has 3, and Rees has 3. I'll give you 4 as Crist needed OT to get to 31 vs. MSU (although, if Rees got to play OT vs. Utah the team would have gotten to 30+ as well).

But say we can't go with points, well then, can we go with wins?

And don't discount how the team plays with Rees at the helm. In almost all cases, they are better with Rees under center. The USF game says it all.

Crist got a quick hook, no doubt, but let's not act as if the team plays better with him under center. They just don't.

The thing that scares me is that Tommy Rees is going to turn the ball over more than 2 times per game on average.

Last year, he started 4 games (and part of the Tulsa game) and threw 8 INTs (not even counting fumbles).

This year, he's played 3.5 games and had 9 turnovers himself.

It's not a small sample size at this point, it is what it is. We were 'ok' for the most part because he could move the ball. But last week, he played the worst passing defense in the country and completed under 60% of his passes and had almost 150 less passing yards than Maine did against Pitt.

Teams are starting to fill the box and his field is going to get smaller and smaller.

At this point, I, along with many others are willing to give Crist a shot. We've already had our expectations lowered, we might as well go with a guy who isn't going to turn the ball over as much.

With Tommy turning the ball over 2-3 times every game, we're asking the defense to play lights out just to beat average teams.

 

[ND_HAS_RISEN]

Nope, but keep being a prick and I'll definitely grant you that wish.

Out of context??? LOL!!! Hey Terrell Owens, I quoted you word for word, and you said the same thing several times. How was that 'out of context'??? Look, you stay stupid sh!t, get called out on it, and then backpedal like Robert Blanton and talk sh!t about the posters who are calling you out on it instead of just admitting you were wrong or backing up what you said.

HAHA, do what you need.

BTW, when did I say you were being a "prick"? Just another case where the "rules" don't apply to you. You wanna call people pricks, stupid, ridiculous, Terrel Owens, etc.. Yet you get to ban people?

Move on. Go find some other poster that you disagree with and engage them in your posting tactics.

Johnnykillz hit the nail on the head with his thread about you.