Random History Discussion

[thekid33]

It's tough being Independent, everyone criticizes your schedule and say you never beat anyone good.

Pawwwwllll, The USA ain't played nobody!

 

[Irish#1]

The carriers being out training on the 7th was a big miss for Japan as well.

That along with calling off the final strike. I think it was Nagumo who felt they had succeeded and didn’t need to send the final wave.

 

[Irish#1]

The 30th best general from the Napoleonic wars was better than the second best rebel general.

There might have been some better generals but 30th seems a stretch. Jackson, Longstreet and Stuart were pretty good at what they did.

 

[Pointman02]

“The Americans have never once, in their entire history, fought a major power peer adversary at the zenith of its strength in a high-intensity war”

There are just so many requirements in this statement for it to be almost meaningless. The Revolutionary War was fought against perhaps the greatest global power of the late 18th century when the UK to that point and beyond still maintained global superiority and beyond. Does that not count because the UK wasn’t a “peer” to a bunch of remote, sparsely populated colonies, or because it wasn’t high-intensity enough? The Civil War was certainly high-intensity, and the two sides were peer enough to match up pretty evenly for at least the first 2 years. Maybe that was kinda like if 2012 Bama played 1s vs 2s - you habe a pretty good idea who should win, but it’s probably one of the 3 toughest games all season. Japan in WWII is ridiculous not to count: definitely a global power at the time, highly militaristic and expansionary when they struck Pearl Harbor. So you have to argue that because the US was already concerned about Japan and therefore doing what we could short of armed conflict to rein in their expansionary ambitions for a couple years, that it doesn’t count. Or maybe it’s because Japan made a couple of strategic blunders immediately before or actually while initiating war with us, that we didn’t actually fight the, at their “zenith.”

We also overran the 4th largest Army in the world in 1990-1991. Iraq wasn’t really a major power peer adversary, but that’s because the US certainly didn’t have one in 1990, and might not have one now. I can bet if, God forbid, we got into a war with China and won, this guy would be arguing that China’s military is a fraction the size of ours, Trump’s tariffs did more to hurt them economically then previously thought, and they hyperextended themselves with belt and road initiatives in remote lands, so they never really were peer and they were actually past their peak.

 

[NorthDakota]

I hope are several perceptions some on the board have of the German military in WW2 might be based more on stereotypes or caricatures than reality... the guy who redesigned the Army's doctrine after Vietnam appears to have been very influenced by them!

 

[Pointman02]

As for the South defeating contemporary European armies, it would all come down to home field advantage, The South could not successfully project power north of Virginia, with their two forays into Union territory ending at Antietam and Gettysburg. They had virtually no naval power, so I don’t think they could have successfully launched an attack on Luxembourg even if the Belgians let them through. On the other hand, I doubt any European power or even a large alliance successfully invading the South in an imaginary world where the CSA existed in peace with the North. But that’s less a statement of military strength or parity than an observation about the external difficulty of projecting power across an ocean, particularly with the limited transportation and communication methods available at that time.

 

[Dizzyphil]

Patton is a great example. He actually took things a little too far a few times.

Montgomery was supposed to spearhead the campaign to take Messina in Sicily. Patton was supposed to protect his flank on the west coast and was upset not being given the lead but also with Montgomery’s plan which wasn’t aggressive. Montgomery was surprised and upset when they got to Messina only to find Patton had already taken it.

Sounds like 'Gunny Highway vs Major Powers' LOL

 

[Dizzyphil]

The U.S. has 82--84M registered gun owners.

China has the largest active military force of 2M followed by India with 1.5M.....

This is a statistic I found amazing. Don't think there will be any countries trying to 'Red Dawn' their way into the US.

 

[Irish#1]

The U.S. has 82--84M registered gun owners.

China has the largest active military force of 2M followed by India with 1.5M.....

This is a statistic I found amazing. Don't think there will be any countries trying to 'Red Dawn' their way into the US.

This is where you come to appreciate SEC SEC. Lol

 

[NDBoiler]

The U.S. has 82--84M registered gun owners.

China has the largest active military force of 2M followed by India with 1.5M.....

This is a statistic I found amazing. Don't think there will be any countries trying to 'Red Dawn' their way into the US.

I get what you’re saying, but I don’t think it’s the slam dunk you might perceive it to be. A situation like this wouldn’t be as simple as numbers. The average US gun owner is going to be someone with a handgun and or/rifle. Thats not going to be anything besides a bug on the windshield against a conventional army armored division or even a light armored unit. The battle against the US general population would be largely lopsided and only limited by the army’s ability to stay supplied with ammunition. However, the size and landscape of the country would be significant factor in favor of the US and is probably more of a deterrent than the number of regular citizen gun owners, as it would make logistics for any invading force very difficult to maintain.

 

[Dizzyphil]

I get what you’re saying, but I don’t think it’s the slam dunk you might perceive it to be. A situation like this wouldn’t be as simple as numbers. The average US gun owner is going to be someone with a handgun and or/rifle. Thats not going to be anything besides a bug on the windshield against a conventional army armored division or even a light armored unit. The battle against the US general population would be largely lopsided and only limited by the army’s ability to stay supplied with ammunition. However, the size and landscape of the country would be significant factor in favor of the US and is probably more of a deterrent than the number of regular citizen gun owners, as it would make logistics for any invading force very difficult to maintain.

Not to mention all the Army, Navy, Marine, National Guard, and Paramilitary bases in the U.S.... how those suckers parachuted into that High School in Colorado I'll never know......

 

[Irish#1]

I came across this. Never heard of Thomas Hutchinson or this story until now. Crazy story. Seems far fetched. Any idea if this is true?
Rejected for military duty, the guy joins the Civil Defense in Montana during WW2. Builds his own anti-aircraft gun out of scraps and shoots down three Japanese bombers heading to bomb an aluminum facility in Great Falls Montana. This remain classified until 1998.

<iframe width="1111" height="630" src="" title="This Farm Boy Built a Scrap Gatling Gun — And Shot Down 3 Bombers in 9 Minutes" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture; web-share" referrerpolicy="strict-origin-when-cross-origin" allowfullscreen></iframe>


Edit: I edited to be more clear on whether this is fake or real. Seems it could have been declassified earlier than 1998.

 

[calvegas04]

I came across this. Never heard of Thomas Hutchinson or this story until now. Crazy story. Rejected for military duty, the guy joins the Civil Defense in Montana during WW2. Builds his own anti-aircraft gun out of scraps and shoots down three Japanese bombers heading to bomb an aluminum facility in Great Falls Montana. This remain classified until 1998.

<iframe width="1111" height="630" src="" title="This Farm Boy Built a Scrap Gatling Gun — And Shot Down 3 Bombers in 9 Minutes" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture; web-share" referrerpolicy="strict-origin-when-cross-origin" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Are you sure this story is real?

 

[Irish#1]

Are you sure this story is real?

No idea. That's why I said it was crazy and had never heard of it. I was curious if anyone else had heard about this. Seemed like a stretch to me. Probably should have been a little more clear in my post.

 

[calvegas04]

No idea. That's why I said it was crazy and had never heard of it. I was curious if anyone else had heard about this. Seemed like a stretch to me. Probably should have been a little more clear in my post.

As far as I know Japan only sent balloons over the US and no bombers have ever been reported. They did have plans to launch planes from giants subs but that never happened.

 

[Katzenboyer]

As for the South defeating contemporary European armies, it would all come down to home field advantage, The South could not successfully project power north of Virginia, with their two forays into Union territory ending at Antietam and Gettysburg. They had virtually no naval power, so I don’t think they could have successfully launched an attack on Luxembourg even if the Belgians let them through. On the other hand, I doubt any European power or even a large alliance successfully invading the South in an imaginary world where the CSA existed in peace with the North. But that’s less a statement of military strength or parity than an observation about the external difficulty of projecting power across an ocean, particularly with the limited transportation and communication methods available at that time.

I think the thought experiment involved the armies hypothetically fighting on a neutral field. Supply line issues, force projection, etc. all being equal.

 

[ab2cmiller]

No idea. That's why I said it was crazy and had never heard of it. I was curious if anyone else had heard about this. Seemed like a stretch to me. Probably should have been a little more clear in my post.

Likely fabricated. I’ve fallen for a couple YouTube videos who tell these amazing compelling stories only to look at the comments and/or do a Google search and verify it was a lie or that there is absolutely nothing on the entire web about it except for a YouTube video.

Earlier this week I wasted a half an hour watching this compelling story of how the first time Clapton played Tears in Heaven publicly he broke all 6 strings on his guitar. “Luckily” there was someone in the audience who brought his guitar and gave it to the sobbing Clapton and encouraged him to finish the song for his son. Totally fabricated.

 

[InKellyWeTrust]

What if Darth Vader and the Empire battled Optimus Prime and the Autobots?

 

[InKellyWeTrust]

But for real, its an interesting thread to read.

 

[Bishop2b5]

Likely fabricated. I’ve fallen for a couple YouTube videos who tell these amazing compelling stories only to look at the comments and/or do a Google search and verify it was a lie or that there is absolutely nothing on the entire web about it except for a YouTube video.

Earlier this week I wasted a half an hour watching this compelling story of how the first time Clapton played Tears in Heaven publicly he broke all 6 strings on his guitar. “Luckily” there was someone in the audience who brought his guitar and gave it to the sobbing Clapton and encouraged him to finish the song for his son. Totally fabricated.

These sorts of stories are getting out of control. Almost every day I see people I know on FB repost some story that is totally fake, yet they believe it. Clapton or Jagger or Jimmy Page donated $5 million to some disaster relief fund. Former Bama and HOF lineman John Hannah killed in wreck. Thirsty puma approaches kind woman for food and water and becomes her pet. NASA discovers missing day in Earth's revolution around the sun, confirming a Bible story. My favorite was the story about a tornado lifting a Kansas house off its foundation and transporting it hundreds of miles away to Colorado, then setting it down gently without harming any of the people in it. I couldn't believe how many people thought that one was real. AI video and images aren't helping.

 

[Bluto]

What if Darth Vader and the Empire battled Optimus Prime and the Autobots?

Marky Mark would show up and fuck them all up while wearing his Kalvin Kleins.

 

[Dizzyphil]

My Son (History Major) cannot find anything on this story. I sent him the link and he sent it to his Professor. Same result. His Professor told him that there would be little to none effectiveness for anti-aircraft especially when the Navy and Army Air Corps (now the Air Force) used .50 cal Browning M2, the 20mm Oerlikon cannon, and the 40mm Bofors gun predominately.

Although they cannot prove it - they cannot 'debunk' it either.

 

[GoldenToTheGrave]

I don't think many people today actually realize or appreciate what it took to get there so quickly. The commitment of the civilian population is unparalleled. Ladies working in the factories, factories running 24/7/365, households donating pots, pans, bikes, pretty much any metal they could spare, families rationing their food so we could feed the troops. The collective effort that was made by this country is mindboggling.

The US started mobilizing in 1940. Obviously not to full wartime economy, but we had the first ever peacetime draft and industry was gearing up to send weapons to Europe. Even still it didn't reach peak form until well into 1944.

 

[GoldenToTheGrave]

The U.S. has 82--84M registered gun owners.

China has the largest active military force of 2M followed by India with 1.5M.....

This is a statistic I found amazing. Don't think there will be any countries trying to 'Red Dawn' their way into the US.

China also has 10x the population and 10x the steel production of peak "Arsenal of democracy" 1944 US war economy.

The manufacturing capabilities of China vs US is probably even less favorable than 1940s Germany or Japan vs US.

 

[NorthDakota]

My Son (History Major) cannot find anything on this story. I sent him the link and he sent it to his Professor. Same result. His Professor told him that there would be little to none effectiveness for anti-aircraft especially when the Navy and Army Air Corps (now the Air Force) used .50 cal Browning M2, the 20mm Oerlikon cannon, and the 40mm Bofors gun predominately.

Although they cannot prove it - they cannot 'debunk' it either.

Do him a favor and tell him to change majors!

 

[Dizzyphil]

Do him a favor and tell him to change majors!

Why? I don't understand if this is real or a joke..... He's working on his Doctorate now on History.....

 

[Veritate Duce Progredi]

China also has 10x the population and 10x the steel production of peak "Arsenal of democracy" 1944 US war economy.

The manufacturing capabilities of China vs US is probably even less favorable than 1940s Germany or Japan vs US.

Wars are fought very differently and tallying raw numbers of soldiers, air & seacraft is of little value. China couldn't complete a land invasaion for a host of reasons. But the first 10 reasons wouldn't include an armed populace. It's simply an added pressure should the world devolve and the US be invaded.

How are you measuring manufacturing? I also think the US is behind but that's purely based on listening to some podcast debates and Palmer Luckey interviews. If anyone wants to hear an interesting perspective on defense contracts, the U.S vs China and the future of warfare, you should search 'Palmer Luckey' on your podcast app. One of the guys who is doing his best to drive the US forward.

 

[calvegas04]

Why? I don't understand if this is real or a joke..... He's working on his Doctorate now on History.....

My college counselor told me to change to something else when I said I was interested in History

 

[calvegas04]

My Son (History Major) cannot find anything on this story. I sent him the link and he sent it to his Professor. Same result. His Professor told him that there would be little to none effectiveness for anti-aircraft especially when the Navy and Army Air Corps (now the Air Force) used .50 cal Browning M2, the 20mm Oerlikon cannon, and the 40mm Bofors gun predominately.

Although they cannot prove it - they cannot 'debunk' it either.

Yeah a 50 cal homemade machine gun isn't downing bombers

 

[Irish#1]

Why? I don't understand if this is real or a joke..... He's working on his Doctorate now on History.....

I think it was a little of both, but I’m guessing he said that because the job market doesn’t have a demand for history majors.

Of course if his intention is to teach that’s a different story.

Regardless, it’s good to have someone with his background to go to.