Racism

[jprue24]

Fatherless homes, crime, hip hop/thug life culture that champions looking cool over getting your life together and actually building a life has eviscerated the black urban communities.

No outside forces affecting any of that over the last 160 years dummy?

 

[Cackalacky2.0]

Florida Straight Up Lied About AP African-American Studies Course, College Board Says — VICE

“We deeply regret not immediately denouncing the Florida Department of Education’s slander,” the College Board said on Saturday.

apple.news

SMH.

 

[TorontoGold]

Of course you assumed correctly. It's obvious. You said it yourself.

Fatherless homes, crime, hip hop/thug life culture that champions looking cool over getting your life together and actually building a life has eviscerated the black urban communities.

I said it myself because I know how much you disdain black culture.

Like I posted earlier, hip hop music became widely successful in the 90's and yet crime dropped from then. What else could have contributed to fatherless homes or "not getting their life together".

 

[Bishop2b5]

I’m completely serious. I think you should be first in shackles. I care less about white people in Alabama than you do about blacks. So my solution has the same contempt for them you show to blacks every time you chime into a conversation.

Do you think that we should just shrug our shoulders at 400 years of slavery and oppression or actually work to do something about the misery that it has caused for the past 20 generations? Because it really seems like you just want to shrug it off.

First, I've never shown contempt for Blacks. That's your spin because I disagree with you about whether Blacks should be treated no differently than anyone else, or should be given special treatment and told they can't succeed without government assistance, special considerations, and treated like helpless children who need caring democrats to rescue them. It's you who treat them like helpless inferiors who can't succeed without you. You want to fix 400 years of injustice? Stop infantilizing them and telling them with every word and deed that they can't succeed without your help. Treat them like capable adults. Hold to them to the same standards as everyone else. Stop telling them that all their problems are someone else's fault and only you can save them.

As for the rest, how in the world do you justify punishing any people for things they had absolutely nothing to do with, no control over, and happened long before they were born? You're calling for enslaving people (I guess slavery's OK with you if it's people you don't like) is ridiculous. You want to enslave people simply because they live in a place where something bad, which they had nothing to do with, happened a few hundred years ago? Do you hear yourself and how crazy that is?

 

[jprue24]

First, I've never shown contempt for Blacks. That's your spin because I disagree with you about whether Blacks should be treated no differently than anyone else, or should be given special treatment and told they can't succeed without government assistance, special considerations, and treated like helpless children who need caring democrats to rescue them. It's you who treat them like helpless inferiors who can't succeed without you. You want to fix 400 years of injustice? Stop infantilizing them and telling them with every word and deed that they can't succeed without your help. Treat them like capable adults. Hold to them to the same standards as everyone else. Stop telling them that all their problems are someone else's fault and only you can save them.

As for the rest, how in the world do you justify punishing any people for things they had absolutely nothing to do with, no control over, and happened long before they were born? You're calling for enslaving people (I guess slavery's OK with you if it's people you don't like) is ridiculous. You want to enslave people simply because they live in a place where something bad, which they had nothing to do with, happened a few hundred years ago? Do you hear yourself and how crazy that is?

Would you consider at least providing them with the bootstraps they need to use?

 

[Bishop2b5]

Would you consider at least providing them with the bootstraps they need to use?

Absolutely. I'm in favor of helping anyone that way.

 

[Sea Turtle]

I said it myself because I know how much you disdain black culture.

Like I posted earlier, hip hop music became widely successful in the 90's and yet crime dropped from then. What else could have contributed to fatherless homes or "not getting their life together".

So, hip hop isn't just music. It's a culture. Calling it hip hop and thug life was simply labeling and glamorizing the black
street life that has existed for decades. Now, we can quibble over time lines and exact definitions but that is my understanding.

There are outside factors that have contributed to the current and historic state of black affairs. But many come from within.
Other groups have faced outside factors in their lives as well.

Jewish communities have and still do face anti-semitism. And yet they pulled together and pulled themselves out of the slums. These are people who endured blood libel and ridiculously enough, thought to have horns for centuries.

These are a people who were enslaved by an African nation for 400 years, created their own nation, saw it destroyed and lived in communities in Europe for over 1000 years. Rounded up, exterminated to a point where they STILL haven't come back to prior numbers and have come back and thrived in the US, Europe, and of course a new nation. And they have nowhere near the chip on their shoulder, adversariel view as the black community.

Now, if they can pull themselves up(as well as the Irish and Italian slum residents of the early 1900's) then there is no reason that the black community can't do the same other than the fact that they refuse to.

 

[GoIrish41]

So, hip hop isn't just music. It's a culture. Calling it hip hop and thug life was simply labeling and glamorizing the black
street life that has existed for decades. Now, we can quibble over time lines and exact definitions but that is my understanding.

There are outside factors that have contributed to the current and historic state of black affairs. But many come from within.
Other groups have faced outside factors in their lives as well.

Jewish communities have and still do face anti-semitism. And yet they pulled together and pulled themselves out of the slums. These are people who endured blood libel and ridiculously enough, thought to have horns for centuries.

These are a people who were enslaved by an African nation for 400 years, created their own nation, saw it destroyed and lived in communities in Europe for over 1000 years. Rounded up, exterminated to a point where they STILL haven't come back to prior numbers and have come back and thrived in the US, Europe, and of course a new nation. And they have nowhere near the chip on their shoulder, adversariel view as the black community.

Now, if they can pull themselves up(as well as the Irish and Italian slum residents of the early 1900's) then there is no reason that the black community can't do the same other than the fact that they refuse to.

Dick!

 

[jprue24]

So, hip hop isn't just music. It's a culture. Calling it hip hop and thug life was simply labeling and glamorizing the black
street life that has existed for decades. Now, we can quibble over time lines and exact definitions but that is my understanding.

Can you define the pillars of the Hip Hop culture you despise so much dummy?

Now, if they can pull themselves up(as well as the Irish and Italian slum residents of the early 1900's) then there is no reason that the black community can't do the same other than the fact that they refuse to.

You know that white Jews, Irish, and Italians became accepted as "white", right dummy?

 

[ab2cmiller]

Dick!

Only had one person on ignore. Now I have 2. You are an embarrassment.

 

[GoIrish41]

Only had one person on ignore. Now I have 2. You are an embarrassment.

Cool with me.

 

[TorontoGold]

So, hip hop isn't just music. It's a culture. Calling it hip hop and thug life was simply labeling and glamorizing the black
street life that has existed for decades. Now, we can quibble over time lines and exact definitions but that is my understanding.

There are outside factors that have contributed to the current and historic state of black affairs. But many come from within.
Other groups have faced outside factors in their lives as well.

Jewish communities have and still do face anti-semitism. And yet they pulled together and pulled themselves out of the slums. These are people who endured blood libel and ridiculously enough, thought to have horns for centuries.

These are a people who were enslaved by an African nation for 400 years, created their own nation, saw it destroyed and lived in communities in Europe for over 1000 years. Rounded up, exterminated to a point where they STILL haven't come back to prior numbers and have come back and thrived in the US, Europe, and of course a new nation. And they have nowhere near the chip on their shoulder, adversariel view as the black community.

Now, if they can pull themselves up(as well as the Irish and Italian slum residents of the early 1900's) then there is no reason that the black community can't do the same other than the fact that they refuse to.

Well your understanding is completely wrong lol. Hip hop music wasn't just started because they wanted to cause trouble. It's because their communities were being destroyed.

My guy, it's taken centuries for jewish people to feel safe and there are still constant attacks. Even in pop culture there's attacks on them. As someone who has worked and study with many jewish people, there is absolutely a sense of community and in that they always have to be wary of becoming too comfortable with society because they may become a scape goat again. Literally a program that is setup for jewish people to take a trip to Israel to remind them of their culture (Birthright Israel | A Free Trip to Israel | Taglit - Birthright Israel) and what they've had to go through. They have certainly have a chip on their shoulder (rightfully so), and it's not as prevalent because being anti-semitic is not as en vogue as being a traditional racist.

Now, let's circle back to African Americans - why do you think that irish and italian immigrants were able to pull themselves up? Is it, that, laws weren't written to keep them from having equal rights to other citizens? Or, that they weren't targeted with over policing? Maybe, that their ancestors weren't raped and owned as slaves with no sort of wealth to be passed down to their kin? Or did they succeed because they just wanted it more than the black community?

Only had one person on ignore. Now I have 2. You are an embarrassment.

Thoughts on Sea Turtle's comments? I would say those are a true embarrassment.

 

[Sea Turtle]

Well your understanding is completely wrong lol. Hip hop music wasn't just started because they wanted to cause trouble. It's because their communities were being destroyed.

My guy, it's taken centuries for jewish people to feel safe and there are still constant attacks. Even in pop culture there's attacks on them. As someone who has worked and study with many jewish people, there is absolutely a sense of community and in that they always have to be wary of becoming too comfortable with society because they may become a scape goat again. Literally a program that is setup for jewish people to take a trip to Israel to remind them of their culture (Birthright Israel | A Free Trip to Israel | Taglit - Birthright Israel) and what they've had to go through. They have certainly have a chip on their shoulder (rightfully so), and it's not as prevalent because being anti-semitic is not as en vogue as being a traditional racist.

Now, let's circle back to African Americans why do you think that irish and italian immigrants were able to pull themselves up? Is it, that, laws weren't written to keep them from having equal rights to other citizens? Or, that they weren't targeted with over policing? Maybe, that their ancestors weren't raped and owned as slaves with no sort of wealth to be passed down to their kin? Or did they succeed because they just wanted it more than the black community?


Thoughts on Sea Turtle's comments? I would say those are a true embarrassment.

And here we go. Over policing. Yeah, that's why blacks never got off the mat.
I grant you there were laws in the SOUTH that were anti black. Frankly, the south has always been anti anything but white protestants. Especially to blacks. But they could have flourished in the north and every one that stayed in the south did so because they chose to. Freaking persevere like the immigrants who came here starving. And STILL are. 6 months later they are putting roofs on homes and over their own.

All you did with your thoughts on the Jewish community was confirm my stance. You didnt 'i know the real jewish story' with me. I worked for them for years. You think i dont know about Jewish trips to Israel and Aliyah? They STILL have to be wary of becoming the scapegoat but they aren't fucking murduring each other over sneakers. They arent committing 50% of the nations crime. And jewish men want responsibility. They want to be men.

The jews had nothing when they came here and Israel after ww2. Nothing. Everything was taken from them. The wealth that they tried to pass down to their kids were literally ripped out of their stomachs(diamonds). The gold fillings were pulled from their mouths and you're talking about generational wealth? Their shoes were taken to make leather. Their women were raped and made to be sex toys(the pretty ones)
They started from scratch when they came to the US and worked up. They didn't call each other sellouts, uncle Tom's and trying to be white when they started to excel. No one would sell to them or buy from them. They were outcasts and called the K word, devils, Jesus killers, Jew boys. Jews were persecuted more in the north after the Civil war than blacks were.

Once they got to Israel a bunch of Jewish farmers had to pick up rifles and fight off 5 nations coming to crush them. A freaking miracle. It took about 20 years for them to get strong. Now, less than a century later, they are so strong that they are accused of being an apartheid state.

 

[TorontoGold]

And here we go. Over policing. Yeah, that's why blacks never got off the mat.
I grant you there were laws in the SOUTH that were anti black. Frankly, the south has always been anti anything but white protestants. Especially to blacks. But they could have flourished in the north and every one that stayed in the south did so because they chose to. Freaking persevere like the immigrants who came here starving. And STILL are. 6 months later they are putting roofs on homes and over their own.

All you did with your thoughts on the Jewish community was confirm my stance. You didnt 'i know the real jewish story' with me. I worked for them for years. You think i dont know about Jewish trips to Israel and Aliyah? They STILL have to be wary of becoming the scapegoat but they aren't fucking murduring each other over sneakers. They arent committing 50% of the nations crime. And jewish men want responsibility. They want to be men.

The jews had nothing when they came here and Israel after ww2. Nothing. Everything was taken from them. The wealth that they tried to pass down to their kids were literally ripped out of their stomachs(diamonds). The gold fillings were pulled from their mouths and you're talking about generational wealth? Their shoes were taken to make leather. Their women were raped and made to be sex toys(the pretty ones)
They started from scratch when they came to the US and worked up. They didn't call each other sellouts, uncle Tom's and trying to be white when they started to excel. No one would sell to them or buy from them. They were outcasts and called the K word, devils, Jesus killers, Jew boys. Jews were persecuted more in the north after the Civil war than blacks were.

Once they got to Israel a bunch of Jewish farmers had to pick up rifles and fight off 5 nations coming to crush them. A freaking miracle. It took about 20 years for them to get strong. Now, less than a century later, they are so strong that they are accused of being an apartheid state.

Uh, over policing is why they're still on the mat. Brother, there's no *shot* you just said only the south had laws that were anti-black lol. Up here we had a segregated school until 1965 in Ontario, and there was one in Nova Scotia until 1983. So I have a really hard time believing that in the North there were never laws that discriminated against African Americans.

I did do that with you, yes you read that correctly (btw one of my clients is literally the largest jewish community centre in Canada). I'm really not going to get into a who had it worse but the world was certainly more accepting of providing rehabilitation to the jewish community in 1940's than North America to African American's in 1800's. The tastefulness of you putting in brackets (the pretty ones) when talking about jewish women getting raped is very on brand. I'll let you in on a little secret, it's not just pretty girls who get/got raped.

"The jews" were certainly not more persecuted in the North, Jewish kids could attend every school in Ontario where black kids could not until 1965.

The calls of an apartheid state is because of the reduction in land of Palestinians btw.

@ab2cmiller - I think it might be time to chime in on these posts from Sea Turtle, I understand that you don't like GI41 using cuss words at people but the post above from Sea Turtle is exponentially worse. The black community only cares about luxury goods, (the pretty ones), no laws in the north discriminating against black people etc. At some point it becomes strange when responding to someone saying "dick" vs not calling out racist rhetoric.

 

[Sea Turtle]

Uh, over policing is why they're still on the mat. Brother, there's no *shot* you just said only the south had laws that were anti-black lol. Up here we had a segregated school until 1965 in Ontario, and there was one in Nova Scotia until 1983. So I have a really hard time believing that in the North there were never laws that discriminated against African Americans.

I did do that with you, yes you read that correctly (btw one of my clients is literally the largest jewish community centre in Canada). I'm really not going to get into a who had it worse but the world was certainly more accepting of providing rehabilitation to the jewish community in 1940's than North America to African American's in 1800's. The tastefulness of you putting in brackets (the pretty ones) when talking about jewish women getting raped is very on brand. I'll let you in on a little secret, it's not just pretty girls who get/got raped.

"The jews" were certainly not more persecuted in the North, Jewish kids could attend every school in Ontario where black kids could not until 1965.

The calls of an apartheid state is because of the reduction in land of Palestinians btw.

@ab2cmiller - I think it might be time to chime in on these posts from Sea Turtle, I understand that you don't like GI41 using cuss words at people but the post above from Sea Turtle is exponentially worse. The black community only cares about luxury goods, (the pretty ones), no laws in the north discriminating against black people etc. At some point it becomes strange when responding to someone saying "dick" vs not calling out racist rhetoric.

Im talking about the camps you moron. I tried to be cordial with you.

Don't try to turn this into into me putting down jewish women. They are lovely. And you have no idea of my ancestry. The prettiest women were lined up and taken to officers quarters as 'servants'. The rest were gassed. You know EXACTLY what I was talking about.

The raping of women was quite common on the battlefield of ww2 no matter the beauty of of any girl. This horror is happening right now in Ukraine. Don't ever accuse me of being flippant about rape again.

I don't what was going on in Canada when it comes to blacks and the Jewish community. I really should when it comes to Jewish integration. That's on me. Mostly the northern US. But laws are currently on the books that are hindering black advancement? What laws in the last 25 years? 40 years?

And your tropes of anyone disagreeing with you is racist and 'im the smartest guy in the room ' is tired and boring and very 'on band'. Only your opinion matters. Only yours is correct.

I've never blocked anyone until now.

 

[jprue24]

Im talking about the camps you moron. I tried to be cordial with you.

Don't try to turn this into into me putting down jewish women. They are lovely. And you have no idea of my ancestry. The prettiest women were lined up and taken to officers quarters as 'servants'. The rest were gassed. You know EXACTLY what I was talking about.

The raping of women was quite common on the battlefield of ww2 no matter the beauty of of any girl. This horror is happening right now in Ukraine. Don't ever accuse me of being flippant about rape again.

I don't what was going on in Canada when it comes to blacks and the Jewish community. I really should when it comes to Jewish integration. That's on me. Mostly the northern US. But laws are currently on the books that are hindering black advancement? What laws in the last 25 years? 40 years?

And your tropes of anyone disagreeing with you is racist and 'im the smartest guy in the room ' is tired and boring and very 'on band'. Only your opinion matters. Only yours is correct.

I've never blocked anyone until now.

You are, without a doubt, a piece of shit bigot.

 

[Irish#1]

I mean, there are too many things that could/should be done that I’d get cramps from typing them all. The general idea is erasing all of the structural barriers that are represented in actual data and trying to find rationale more nuanced than they are a lesser form of citizen who are culturally incapable of succeeding. Or, pull yourself up by your bootstraps. It’s a gross oversimplification of the issue. There are structural reasons why African Americans have not been able to accumulate generational wealth, governmental and otherwise. Same goes for access to quality education, employment, medical care, etc., etc. Remove those barriers. Get rid of policies that are bound up in racist ideology and dehumanizing solutions, like the electoral college so that blacks who have been historically red-lines into communities with the least investment don’t have their votes marginalized by gerrymandering. There’s plenty to be done if we’re being honest. Reparations are about admitting our forefathers were kinda racist and made some policies that has deflated communities and skewed statistics where un-nuanced thinkers stop. assign blame and do nothing. just like our crummy ancestors did. We should start by refreshing our understanding of our founding principles. I’m not for cutting anyone a check, I’m for real lasting change to out this shitty topic behind us once and for all.

That's not really reparations. Those are ideas on fixing the current issues, but you did say you're not for cutting a check to anyone which answers the three questions. I appreciate you commenting.

I think the lack of responses says more than answering the questions.

 

[Blazers46]

This is how we fix the single motherhood rate, murder rate, etc. by providing more opportunities in black communities, by not incarcerating black men at a 3-1 clip over whites, by fixing the schools in the communities, by addressing the issues created by red lining, etc.

You want to focus on the results of bad policy but not on examining the source of the problems. I have no idea what motivated those officers from beating a black guy to death, and it’s every bit as disgusting as a cop putting his knee on a guy’s neck for 9 minutes as he begs for his life. There are few consequences historically for police officers, particularly when their victims are minorities. Every time a black person is killed or mistreated by the police (provided only of it is caught on camera), apologists come out of the woodwork to defend the cops and demonize the victims.

When a black guy kneeled for the national anthem during a football game, you might have thought that they assassinated a Senator or governor, given the right’s reaction (particularly on this board). Any mention of Black Lives Matter is always followed by a redneck chorus of “all lives matter,” or “blue lives matter.” And you wonder how people see a double standard?

C’mon man. Open your eyes. All of this is a continuum of contempt that has existed longer than this country. From slavery, to share cropping, to Jim Crow, to police murdering black people without repercussion. And in real time, it’s always excused as the victim’s fault until it’s forgotten and when it happens again we get the same bullshit excuses. If you always look the other way you’ll never see it, but it’s all out in the open.

You have obviously never worked in the inner city or been a part of one. I not only grew up in the inner city (corner of Middlebury and Prairie in Elkhart, look it up) but I worked it for YEARS (juvenile probation social worker and family services social worker) and went to school there (Mary Beck, Pierre Moran, Elkhart Central).

Single motherhood rate. What motivates a woman to stay in a relationship in the inner cities? These women are completely fine living rent-free (section 8), getting free food and healthcare (food stamps), and a lot of them know if you bug them enough you can get put on disability very easily. Very rarely was a single mom in these inner cities single with a baby daddy in jail. It's the same in South Bend where I have also worked. Selling drugs is not only lucrative but you are obviously not reporting your income to lose your free benefits. What opportunities are these kids missing out on that others get? I made it out along with MANY of my black counterparts. It's hard for men to compete in these welfare pockets. The first sign of trouble these women know they know they have a safety net.

You say the 5 officers killing that man is "every bit if disgusting" as the Knee incident. The world does not see it that way. George Floyd is a hero and has statues because his cop was a white man. The other guy got the shit beat out of continually. It was almost some Rodney King type shit. It got some headlines sure, but why was it treated differently than the Floyd incident? I will tell you why.

Being a victim is a very lucrative position and it's a very easy position to take as a cop-out. Working in the inner cities these kids are taught at a very young age by their own parents and family about who their enemy is. Yes, I said, enemy. You mention BLM but what has BLM done besides raise millions to help themselves and they have a very comfy living off the backs of injustices of black people. Who is calling them out on here? BLM, Al Sharpton, and Jesse Jackson are specific examples of where race-baiting sells. the media knows this as well, white man kills a black man with his knee.... click, click click click, ratings, ratings, ratings.... black man gets beat to death by a bunch of black cops it does not fit the white monster narrative. Sure we got some good plugs in about policing in general and how cops are bad but it does not go over as well as the mean monster white man. This is the same shit the kids are learning and being told at a very young age. There is not any reason a black person cannot succeed in these current conditions and this current climate. Turn on Youtube and we got black folks turn't up at the waffle house throwing chairs and destroying the whole place and you have people on their phone recording and laughing. "Worldstar, Worldstar". The moment you get a cop knocking at a door the phones are out and they are already playing the victim and they don't even know what they are there for.

A cell phone video shows a tense scene just after a fight between an Elkhart police officer and a 21-year-old man on the evening of July 3rd. A video shot by a bystander on West Garfield Avenue shows Elkhart police arresting Reese Tommy Haithcox and heated exchanges between officers and the crowd that gathered. The video shows Haithcox, pinned to the ground by several officers, while being handcuffed, after investigators say he punched an officer the face at least 15 times, tried to grab his firearm, then tried to run as he was tackled by the two officers.
Residents say the incident has caused increased tension between them and the police department.

I cannot find a video of this incident (convenient) but it was a brutal attack on a police officer in Elkhart while people just watched and laughed as they recorded on their phones. "Residents say the incident caused increased tension between them and the department"!! I lived on these same streets, that statement is garbage.

Being a victim all the time just makes you a victim all the time. There is no empowerment. These black kids and even adults can flourish in this current system and climate but they are unwilling. They are trapped by their own self-victimization. They are trapped by the media and the race-baiters selling the idea of a mean white monster so they can stay relevant and black people can remain "oppressed". Dumbing down standards tells these kids they are dumber plain and simple.

You mention Kaepernick. The man is a multi-millionaire that is kneeling because of how black people are being oppressed. Where is Kaepernicks oppression? The guy knew he was on his way out of SF and knew he just was not really that good anymore. Kaep has gotten paid more for being an advocate for oppression than he has for being a professional football player. What does that tell you? It tells you he made a great business decision. He disrespected workouts and basically sabotaged any and all workouts he ever went to because he knows he does not want to play football, he is doing fine being "oppressed" and "black-balled".

Jim Crow, redlining, and segregation are dead (at least white people segregating against black people). America has come a VERY long way. Black people can and should be thriving in 2023 but it's people like you that keep victimizing them... "slavery, redlining, segregation, BLM and hillbilly cops that think they matter", and my favorite..... "voter suppression". Black people can do well in this current climate, they are doing well in this current climate, they will continue to do well in this current climate, and if we stop telling them they are victims all the time they can explode and do far greater things. Racist white people are not the enemy and you give them waaaaay too much credit, they are racist white people that have issues with themselves and want to play victim to feel better about their current shitty situation. They should be used to motivate not victimize. We have way too many mental midgets that feel so victimized and oppressed and fail to see the bigger picture.

 

[Irish#1]

View attachment 3052865

As Rap/Hip Hop got more popular, crime decreased. Maybe the satanic panic was right and rock music was corrupting the youth?

It should be noted that a quick google showed crime in general was in a decline during that time, but you got me curious so I did some more googling.

Crime rates have varied over time, with a sharp rise after 1900 and reaching a broad bulging peak between the 1970s and early 1990s. After 1992, crime rates began to fall year by year and have since declined significantly. This trend lasted until 2015, when crime rates began to rise slightly.

This research concluded that listening to aggressive music with aggressive lyrics increases aggressive thoughts and feelings, which often turn into aggressive and violent actions. Now, for how rap music has influenced drug use and drug involvement in generally. Jan 15, 2020

Rap culture promotes negative mindsets and shows younger generations that certain lifestyles are desirable. The development of music has changed drastically throughout the years, increasing profanity, drugs, violence, and much sexual slang invoking an influence on modern youth society. May 25, 2022

Hip Hop’s negative influence on adolescents

The development of music has changed drastically throughout the years, increasing profanity, drugs, violence, and much sexual slang invoking an influence on modern youth society. Throughout the time more people became exposed to this music and began to build a negative reputation. This type of...

thespellbinder.net

 

[Blazers46]

I mean, there are too many things that could/should be done that I’d get cramps from typing them all. The general idea is erasing all of the structural barriers that are represented in actual data and trying to find rationale more nuanced than they are a lesser form of citizen who are culturally incapable of succeeding. Or, pull yourself up by your bootstraps. It’s a gross oversimplification of the issue. There are structural reasons why African Americans have not been able to accumulate generational wealth, governmental and otherwise. Same goes for access to quality education, employment, medical care, etc., etc. Remove those barriers. Get rid of policies that are bound up in racist ideology and dehumanizing solutions, like the electoral college so that blacks who have been historically red-lines into communities with the least investment don’t have their votes marginalized by gerrymandering. There’s plenty to be done if we’re being honest. Reparations are about admitting our forefathers were kinda racist and made some policies that has deflated communities and skewed statistics where un-nuanced thinkers stop. assign blame and do nothing. just like our crummy ancestors did. We should start by refreshing our understanding of our founding principles. I’m not for cutting anyone a check, I’m for real lasting change to out this shitty topic behind us once and for all.

I agree and disagree with this at the same time. It's very hard to get out of the 'ghetto". You just simply don't know what you don't know. I grew up thinking I was going to work in a factory and drive a forklift just like my father. I was resigned to smoking cigarettes and eating frozen pizza my whole life. I never realized other things existed outside of where I grew up. That is an inner city in general, white or black or even yellow. You are always going to have "have's" and "have nots". You will always have "Winners" and "losers". That is how society thrives honestly. Competition to be great and separate yourself from the pack. To be better than the next guy. Take my father and I. He still does the same crappy job he has done for my whole life. He makes $20/hour or something like that. Hes 67. I got out of the poor mentality and went to school, worked different jobs and eventually started rubbing elbows with some very successful people that showed me how to invest and promote myself. Fast forward to today, I have owned several companies and I am doing very well for myself to the point that my own money is making so much money in real estate and other things that I could probably get away with not working another hour of my life and be just fine. I am not even 40 yet. I have black friends that have done exactly the same and we have all sort of followed the same model of success. I also have friends that took the route of flaking out and now make every excuse in the book why we are doing well and they are still working the line at some random RV plant. It's not really about barriers as much as it is about mindset. The blackest of black people can find a way just as easy as the whitest of all whites. Like I said earlier I grew up in the ghetto. I have been tackled by police for absolutely no reason, I have been "oppressed" by different classes of people that thought they were better than me but I changed my mindset and realized all this dumb shit the media runs with and the race-baiters are just doing it as their own hustle. Are there areas that need some improvement? Sure, but it's mostly just changing the hearts and minds of the people to just be better people. Man the fuck up. Love thy neighbor and stop being a bitch.

 

[ab2cmiller]

I put 41 on ignore. Since his return he has presented himself as the Ultimate Old Man Screaming at the Clouds kind of guy. The responses of Racist, ,Faccist, Dick, Dumbass, "Fuck You" etc etc etc was just so over the top. I know I am not missing anything by not reading another 41 post in my life.

In regards to Sea Turtle, I don't believe he's a racist. I believe there is certainly "some" elements of truth. He talks about blacks spending a lot of money on shoes (and other things) and people brand him a racist. Do all blacks spend money on those things, obviously not. Is it significant in a certain segment of the black population? I believe that to be true. Does that make me a racist? In these politically correct times you can't utter such things or you are branded by Toronto, 41 and others.

The problem with discussing the issues/solutions regarding racism and black poverty is that there is a TON of nuance. Almost nobody on this board is willing to admit that. So we just end up with two sides screaming at each other.

Do I believe that blacks experience racism today? yes
Do I believe that blacks face an extra hurdle in the form of potential discrimination in getting excellent jobs? yes
Do I believe that single parent households are more likely to experience poverty? yes
Do blacks have the highest percentage of single parent households? yes
Do I believe that the fact that Asian households have the lowest level of single parent households has contributed to financial wealth? yes
Do I believe some laws & so called "over policing" has contributed to more single parent households? yes
Do I believe that to be the primary reason? no
Do I believe that it can be difficult for anyone (black or white or anything else) who has a family history of being in poverty to get out? yes
Do I believe that many people who are in poverty make poor financial choices or really don't have anyone to provide guidance? yes

Undoubtedly some of you will have a problem with some of the items I've listed and others will fully support them. Frankly, I don't know if anyone would agree with all of them. Some of these I believe more strongly than others. It's not always "black and white", no pun intended. Telling the black community that this is entirely on them and that they simply need to pull up their bootstraps isn't helpful. Casting blame on laws and over policing isn't helpful. Calling someone a racist is not helpful in any way as it relates to have a real discussion. I acknowledge there is nuance. The question is does anyone else?

As I said previously, the political forums are largely a waste of time.

 

[Blazers46]

I put 41 on ignore. Since his return he has presented himself as the Ultimate Old Man Screaming at the Clouds kind of guy. The responses of Racist, ,Faccist, Dick, Dumbass, "Fuck You" etc etc etc was just so over the top. I know I am not missing anything by not reading another 41 post in my life.

In regards to Sea Turtle, I don't believe he's a racist. I believe there is certainly "some" elements of truth. He talks about blacks spending a lot of money on shoes (and other things) and people brand him a racist. Do all blacks spend money on those things, obviously not. Is it significant in a certain segment of the black population? I believe that to be true. Does that make me a racist? In these politically correct times you can't utter such things or you are branded by Toronto, 41 and others.

The problem with discussing the issues/solutions regarding racism and black poverty is that there is a TON of nuance. Almost nobody on this board is willing to admit that. So we just end up with two sides screaming at each other.

Do I believe that blacks experience racism today? yes
Do I believe that blacks face an extra hurdle in the form of potential discrimination in getting excellent jobs? yes
Do I believe that single parent households are more likely to experience poverty? yes
Do blacks have the highest percentage of single parent households? yes
Do I believe that the fact that Asian households have the lowest level of single parent households has contributed to financial wealth? yes
Do I believe some laws & so called "over policing" has contributed to more single parent households? yes
Do I believe that to be the primary reason? no
Do I believe that it can be difficult for anyone (black or white or anything else) who has a family history of being in poverty to get out? yes
Do I believe that many people who are in poverty make poor financial choices or really don't have anyone to provide guidance? yes

Undoubtedly some of you will have a problem with some of the items I've listed and others will fully support them. Frankly, I don't know if anyone would agree with all of them. Some of these I believe more strongly than others. It's not always "black and white", no pun intended. Telling the black community that this is entirely on them and that they simply need to pull up their bootstraps isn't helpful. Casting blame on laws and over policing isn't helpful. Calling someone a racist is not helpful in any way as it relates to have a real discussion. I acknowledge there is nuance. The question is does anyone else?

As I said previously, the political forums are largely a waste of time.

So many conversations detailed by some “gotcha” moment by people trying to win arguments. Disagreeing is racist.

Something worth nothing is the rap/hip hop “culture”. For the most part black people see rap as large part of their culture. Just listen to 24 hours of rap music and write a book report on what you heard and get back with your findings and tell me about black culture. Music is powerful. Most people have an “anthem” or “fight song”. In the inner city rap IS THE CULTURE. I listen to rap because it’s pumps me up for a workout, there are people that make it their anthem for life.

 

[TorontoGold]

Objectively false things like "only the SOUTH had laws against black people" get missed, but the true crime is me saying that his statements were racist lol. Or that the music is a significant enough influence to be a material issue, ignoring that every era throughout modern history the music has been blamed. Black people spend too much money on luxury goods, yet have exponentially less household wealth....kinda hard to buy luxury goods with no money - but that's flawless logic. Literally any of those could be called out, but the ultimate issue is that many called him out on those racist comments lmao. The "omg stop saying everyone is racisttttt" card doesn't exactly work when it's only one person getting called a racist, if you don't share the same sentiments then you're not a racist either.

This is why no serious discussion can be had, because the sensitivities of those that want to hold themselves to a higher ground than others are more upset at the word "racist" than calling out the incorrect statements with racist undertones. Can't have nuanced discussions when you let the filth fester and get upset at those calling them out on it.

 

[jprue24]

abc, all this talk about the debauchery in Hip Hop without even a nod to the same thing in Rock music (Sex, drugs, and rock-n-roll!)?


That's why he's a bigot. You haven't seen me describe anyone else as that way for a reason. Whether he is trolling, like he did in the Dante Moore thread, or not he knows exactly what he is saying. Notice how he is steering the discussion away from defending his comments about Black Culture to the atrocities

 

[ab2cmiller]

Objectively false things like "only the SOUTH had laws against black people" get missed, but the true crime is me saying that his statements were racist lol. Or that the music is a significant enough influence to be a material issue, ignoring that every era throughout modern history the music has been blamed. Black people spend too much money on luxury goods, yet have exponentially less household wealth....kinda hard to buy luxury goods with no money - but that's flawless logic. Literally any of those could be called out, but the ultimate issue is that many called him out on those racist comments lmao. The "omg stop saying everyone is racisttttt" card doesn't exactly work when it's only one person getting called a racist, if you don't share the same sentiments then you're not a racist either.

This is why no serious discussion can be had, because the sensitivities of those that want to hold themselves to a higher ground than others are more upset at the word "racist" than calling out the incorrect statements with racist undertones. Can't have nuanced discussions when you let the filth fester and get upset at those calling them out on it.

LOL.... I wasn't the one screaming about it, you were. I did not throw a fit that someone called anyone a racist. You were the one that demanded a response from me. I explained my thoughts about Sea Turtle and your take that he was a racist calmly and rationally as well as including other observations about black poverty. I explained that both sides need to recognize that there are nuances. You responded in typical Toronto fashion. There are nuances, you are unwilling to admit any of that. I wasn't looking for a fight, you tried to drag me into one and now you're upset at my response. LOL. Next time I won't respond.

 

[jprue24]

So many conversations detailed by some “gotcha” moment by people trying to win arguments. Disagreeing is racist.

Something worth nothing is the rap/hip hop “culture”. For the most part black people see rap as large part of their culture. Just listen to 24 hours of rap music and write a book report on what you heard and get back with your findings and tell me about black culture. Music is powerful. Most people have an “anthem” or “fight song”. In the inner city rap IS THE CULTURE. I listen to rap because it’s pumps me up for a workout, there are people that make it their anthem for life.

I could provide you with a weeks worth of Hip Hop that would provide the exact opposite book report you are assuming you'd get.

Turtle's insistence on using that culture as a means to slight black people is him being a bigot.

 

[TorontoGold]

LOL.... I wasn't the one screaming about it, you were. I did not throw a fit that someone called anyone a racist. You were the one that demanded a response from me. I explained my thoughts about Sea Turtle and your take that he was a racist calmly and rationally as well as including other observations about black poverty. I explained that both sides need to recognize that there are nuances. You responded in typical Toronto fashion. There are nuances, you are unwilling to admit any of that. I wasn't looking for a fight, you tried to drag me into one and now you're upset at my response. LOL. Next time I won't respond.

I just wanted to see you show the same level of frustration that you have for GI41 that should be placed on Sea Turtle's statements.

When you make comments like "you guys need to move on" you insert yourself as the person who is to appear as the neutral observer, but when Sea Turtle steps over the line into the racist territory - silence. GI41 uses less refined language, you're upset. You can see how that would give the appearance of unequal outrage from a nuanced observer that is above the fray. Why is it so hard to just call him out and say that he is wrong? Literally any time I say something that you disagree with, I get a response, Sea Turtle says "Only the SOUTH had laws against black people" the biggest lay up of all time to say "you're wrong" and you instead want to say nuance is needed. Of course nuance is needed, but that can only happen when objectively false things are pointed out and corrected.

 

[Blazers46]

I could provide you with a weeks worth of Hip Hop that would provide the exact opposite book report you are assuming you'd get.

Turtle's insistence on using that culture as a means to slight black people is him being a bigot.

As could I but let’s talk about the chart toppers. WAP!!

 

[jprue24]

As could I but let’s talk about the chart toppers. WAP!!

White people make songs chart toppers.

 

[Blazers46]

I just wanted to see you show the same level of frustration that you have for GI41 that should be placed on Sea Turtle's statements.

When you make comments like "you guys need to move on" you insert yourself as the person who is to appear as the neutral observer, but when Sea Turtle steps over the line into the racist territory - silence. GI41 uses less refined language, you're upset. You can see how that would give the appearance of unequal outrage from a nuanced observer that is above the fray. Why is it so hard to just call him out and say that he is wrong? Literally any time I say something that you disagree with, I get a response, Sea Turtle says "Only the SOUTH had laws against black people" the biggest lay up of all time to say "you're wrong" and you instead want to say nuance is needed. Of course nuance is needed, but that can only happen when objectively false things are pointed out and corrected.

I agree that’s wrong. It this where we educate each other and not use it as a “layup/gotcha” moment.