QB Competition during the spring

Freeman Ara

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I think if we are arguing who gives us the best chance to win next year we have to look at the make up of the team next year. Without Floyd our WR's go from a strength to a weakness. Team's figured out to slow us down with Floyd this year, wait until we run TJ, Toma and whoever out there next year, no matter who is out there it might be a struggle. Now you take away the option look that Hendrix(or Golson) can bring and you really hamstring this offense next year. Until we find a player or players that can fill Floyd's shoes we are going to need to rely on the run game more heavily and I don't think we can do that with Rees and be successful. Hendrix brings so much more overall game to the table he gives us the best chance going forward.
 

kmoose

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Read it again JA (and the d didnt i was impressed with his play sorry u werent.) STILL SMH

JA? If you're calling me a jacka$$, then you've already lost. you were impressed with his play, and you are sorry that I wasn't, that's not what you were saying?
 

pkt77242

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Could you be completely wrong more times in one post? I don't think.

If you actually watched the game tonight (which you, apparently, did not), then you'd know that 5 or 6 of Hendrix's 24 passes were purposefully thrown away.

This isn't baseball, so take your all-knowing stats and stick them... well, you know where.


You make me laugh. Hendrix threw away 2-3 passes and most QB's do. Shocking I know. Why don't you go back and watch his 5-6 passes that were thrown high (well probably more but those were the really high ones).
 

returnofthemack

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He was 0-5 in the first half. So 11-19, 1 TD, 1INT off of a tipped pass, and 1 rushing TD is pretty damn good for his first time in extended playing time.
 

kmoose

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The reasons have been laid out before your eyes in this very thread, and numerous times at that.

As for the bolded part, at least you can admit it.

I have yet to see a reason why I should not consider the kid inaccurate if he completed less than 50% of his passes. Do you have one for me? Or are you going to go with the old "because I said so" defense?
 

pkt77242

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The reasons have been laid out before your eyes in this very thread, and numerous times at that.

As for the bolded part, at least you can admit it.

Actually you are the one ignoring the facts. So you would be the one who is ignoring what is right in front of his eyes. You are letting the fact that he brings hope/potential and excusing any issues that he displayed tonight. This is why we keep crucifying our QB's at ND, we fall in love with them at the start and only see positives (while ignoring the negatives) and then when they don't live up to that perfection we throw them to the curb).
 

aaronb

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Because he wasn't inaccurate in the half of football he played. Because its silly to label a football player (good or bad) after exactly 30 minutes of college level football in any case...

It's equally as silly to label him a savior over those same 30 minutes.
 

pkt77242

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The only overstatement here is calling Andrew Hendrix inaccurate based solely on a numbers and ratios.

So because you say he is accurate we are supposed to believe it but ignore the numbers?

Look as I have stated many times in this thread I think he will fix it and fix it quickly (very possibly by the bowl game as I think they get 15 practices before it, which is 3+ weeks of during the season practice) and the issue seems to be a simple one but one that needs to be fixed.
 

kmoose

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He was 0-5 in the first half. So 11-19, 1 TD, 1INT off of a tipped pass, and 1 rushing TD is pretty damn good for his first time in extended playing time.

I agree. But less than 50% is a good reason to be cautious about labelling him as the next great thing.
 

DomerInHappyValley

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I'm not gonna say he's the next coming of Montana.
I'm assuming he wasn't expected to win the game.
Maybe Tommy was more injured then we were lead to believe.
But what we saw the good and the bad. The good out weighs the bad imo.
The being said I loved seeing the spread being run how it is supposed to be.
 
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pkt77242

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I'm not gonna say he's the next coming of Montana.
I'm assuming he wasn't expected to win the game.
Maybe Tommy was more injured then we were lead to believe.
But what we saw the good and the bad. The good out weighs the bad imo.

Agreed. I was excited to see him play as well as he did but there are still things he needs to work on.
 

DomerInHappyValley

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Agreed. I was excited to see him play as well as he did but there are still things he needs to work on.

I don't think release point was the problem though. I think most of it was adrenaline. And thinking to much instead of just throwing the ball. When he just saw the open man and released it seemed like 80% were on target.
 

North Buffalo Irish

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I have yet to see a reason why I should not consider the kid inaccurate if he completed less than 50% of his passes. Do you have one for me? Or are you going to go with the old "because I said so" defense?
For the third, fourth or fifth time in less than two pages... because being forced to throw the ball away SIX TIMES in only 24 attempts doesn't make a quarterback "inaccurate." Are you going to address this point, or are you going to just keep posting "50%" ad nauseam?

Actually you are the one ignoring the facts. So you would be the one who is ignoring what is right in front of his eyes. You are letting the fact that he brings hope/potential and excusing any issues that he displayed tonight. This is why we keep crucifying our QB's at ND, we fall in love with them at the start and only see positives (while ignoring the negatives) and then when they don't live up to that perfection we throw them to the curb).
Right, except I never said any of that. I have never once deemed Andrew Hendrix the savior of Notre Dame football. In fact, if you wanted to trawl back through the Stanford game thread (I'm not sure why anyone would willingly do this), I actually said at halftime that Hendrix is not the elixir at this point in time. Keep putting words in my mouth and making generalizations, though.

Umm I like the kid as well but numbers and ratios are how we generally measure accuracy.
Tommy Rees is completing roughly 66% of his passes. Is he an accurate quarterback? Well, certain fans would argue (based solely on statistics) that he is; his performances show otherwise. I measure accuracy with my eyes, not with numbers. After all, numbers never tell the whole story. Andrew Hendrix made (accurate) throws tonight that 66-percent-passer Tommy "Accurate" Rees has never and will never make in his entire life.

So because you say he is accurate we are supposed to believe it but ignore the numbers?
No, you're supposed to take the black-and-white numbers and combine them with in-color reality of what happened on the field (multiple throw-aways, an overturned completion, one of the worst drops of the season, etc).

He was 0-5 in the first half. So 11-19, 1 TD, 1INT off of a tipped pass, and 1 rushing TD is pretty damn good for his first time in extended playing time.
Thank you, thank you, thank you! It seems to me that Hendrix completed 58% of his passes once he was handed the reigns to the offense (and that still includes the Eifert drop, the Toma review, and at least two throw-aways).

So inaccurate!
 

4irishnation

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NO ONE BUT U GUYS STATED HE WAS( our savior, awesome, or that I watched the same game as u but his release point is a problem WTF ever) We stated that we were impressed with his play, he had some very nice throws, for his first actual game action he did some things that Tommy hadn't done in recent games.
I agree. But less than 50% is a good reason to be cautious about labelling him as the next great thing.
WHO LABELED HIM THE NEXT GREAT THING ?
 

Rocket89

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Why doesn't the "Hendrix was inaccurate" crowd bring up some specific throws to prove his inaccuracy?

*4 throwaways was it?

That leaves 8 more incompletions.

Toma almost great catch---certainly not inaccurate.

7 left.

Eifert drop.

6 left.

Great ball thrown to Floyd down the sidelines, just couldn't get a foot in.

5 left.

First throw was a miscommunication with Floyd.

4 left.

One pass into the SU linebacker---inaccuracy or just bad decision.

3 left.

Interception---ball was a little high and hot, certainly catchable.

So that leaves two incompletions that I can't recall at the moment and I haven't found a blatantly innacurate pass yet.
 

NDPhilly

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I think a mobile QB can help minimize the loss of Floyd by adding a new element to our offense.
 

ohara831

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Although I like Hendrix over Rees, my hope is that Golson has picked up a lot of knowledge over this year, and he becomes a major factor for 2012. But Rees just seemed to regress this season with some very poor decision making at impactful points in the game. You can just see the anger in BK's face every time he does something costly, and I think that plays into what happens at QB in 2012.
 

Patulski

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The good news is that we have two good sophomore QB's, a promising Freshman and a QB coming in.

Any bickering about who's better is a waste of time.

Kelly is building a program. If we start winning the battle on both lines of scrimmage, play disciplined football and have good special team play, we'll return to prominence.
 

skeeter

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First and foremost, BK needs to figure out what kind of offense he wants to run and commit to it (even if it means passing on Gunner). Second, none of our QB's can carry the team with their arms so focusing on the running game next year is paramount. Third, if Molnar is going to be your OC, hire another QB coach. These kids need individualized instruction on the basics of playing QB - start with footwork.
 

phgreek

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First and foremost, BK needs to figure out what kind of offense he wants to run and commit to it (even if it means passing on Gunner). Second, none of our QB's can carry the team with their arms so focusing on the running game next year is paramount. Third, if Molnar is going to be your OC, hire another QB coach. These kids need individualized instruction on the basics of playing QB - start with footwork.

My only issue with what you said is the footwork comment. I saw Tommy throwing off his back foot a couple times...but geez, he got smacked like 4 times prior to that point, and he had someone coming up the gut untouched again on the two I saw...up until that point I thought his footwork was ok...I don't know how you evaluate Hendrix footwork...he too spent alot of time running for his life...I thought he did pretty well at rotating his upper body on his throws while running for his life...

want to talk ugly footwork...go no further than the O-line...it'd be hard to be their coach right now...how do you review film and find a positive in that steaming pile they turned in...
 

kmoose

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NO ONE BUT U GUYS STATED HE WAS( our savior, awesome, or that I watched the same game as u but his release point is a problem WTF ever) We stated that we were impressed with his play, he had some very nice throws, for his first actual game action he did some things that Tommy hadn't done in recent games. WHO LABELED HIM THE NEXT GREAT THING ?

Perhaps not verbatim, but this is pretty close:

What more do you want from the kid? He's a redshirt FRESHMAN who has never started a game in his life. He just dismantled the #6 team in the country in his first real appearance (i.e. not zone-reads against Air Force) except for one bad throw. FFS, ND nation should be fellating this kid after the bullshit we've put up with the last two seasons with Rees.

It's funny how, when TJ Jones doesn't look for the ball and it doinks off of his helmet for an interception, it's simply a turnover. But when Hendrix has a tipped ball intercepted, it's not even a bad throw.
 

dmort

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The O line has been a root cause of all ND's losses.Once they get a real O line the better the offense will be.Gee they cant even handle a 3 man rush.
 

skeeter

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My only issue with what you said is the footwork comment. I saw Tommy throwing off his back foot a couple times...but geez, he got smacked like 4 times prior to that point, and he had someone coming up the gut untouched again on the two I saw...up until that point I thought his footwork was ok...I don't know how you evaluate Hendrix footwork...he too spent alot of time running for his life...I thought he did pretty well at rotating his upper body on his throws while running for his life...

want to talk ugly footwork...go no further than the O-line...it'd be hard to be their coach right now...how do you review film and find a positive in that steaming pile they turned in...

Sorry but Tommy's timing and accuracy issues stem from poor footwork. Molnar's has complained about it this season (including after the SC game). High throws, low throws, throws behind the receiver (can't even complete a lateral pass...OK, he finally completed 1 for negative yardage). Now he's so afraid to get hit that prior to taking a shot, he'll either rush the throw or release the ball while falling backwards to cushion the blow. I know this is a stretch, but I've wondered if its his lack of toughness why he doesn't run the ball more (vs. throwing it away). Just a theory. And I'm not Tommy bashing. Kid has potential. Just needs a real good QB coach.

Hendrix on the other hand is more athletic but his release point (high/overthrown balls) comes from setup/footwork. It'll get better with practice and reps.

The OL is a different story. And if Kelly moves to the spread/up tempo, some changes will have to be made. These guys will not be able to keep up.
 

Patulski

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Sorry but Tommy's timing and accuracy issues stem from poor footwork. Molnar's has complained about it this season (including after the SC game). High throws, low throws, throws behind the receiver (can't even complete a lateral pass...OK, he finally completed 1 for negative yardage). Now he's so afraid to get hit that prior to taking a shot, he'll either rush the throw or release the ball while falling backwards to cushion the blow. I know this is a stretch, but I've wondered if its his lack of toughness why he doesn't run the ball more (vs. throwing it away). Just a theory. And I'm not Tommy bashing. Kid has potential. Just needs a real good QB coach.

Hendrix on the other hand is more athletic but his release point (high/overthrown balls) comes from setup/footwork. It'll get better with practice and reps.

Coaches rightly emphasize footwork, and have practices like "perfect Friday"- where without a pass rush the QB is expected to be accurate on all the throws in the game plan for the week- but football is a messy, spontaneous game where the best players thrive when conditions (like having to throw without perfect footwork) are not ideal. Kelly's got to figure out who the best QB is for his team under less than optimal conditions. Both Rees and Hendrix failed last night in that circumstance. Let's hope one of them is better by next year ( they'll be juniors after all) along with the Golson wild card.
 
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If Tommy Turnover or Tommy can't run is our QB again I am going to get sick. As long as we play Army/Navy/Maryland we are OK with Tommy. If we play good defenses Tommy will be what he is, a Turnover Machine.

Stats don't lie

2 Ints in 2010 against USC and 1 this year and 1 fumble not including the backwards pass fumble.

2 ints and 2 fumbles and 1 lost fumble against Michigan

Michigan State 1 int

BC solid defense 1 int

Stanford in 1 half 1 fumble and 1 int

Pitt 1 int

Turnover Prone against good teams. Oh well, he is what he is. And now he has regressed.
 
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