QB Competition during the spring

[Long Time Irish]

fair enough.. not overly concerned with how a few random people characterize my fandom of my team.. as far as I'm concerned, I control how much of a fan I am..

I just don't feel like going through another year of poor QB play when we'll have Hendrix (with two years under his belt) and Golson (with one year under his belt) sitting behind the most blatantly obvious mediocre QB on the team.. just don't feel like watching a guy stand there and not gain 15 yards on a scramble because he's slower than our offensive linemen

I have been a reader of Irish Envy for years, and I have not posted much till recently. I guess I just do not understand this thinking. You stated that Rees is the "most blatantly obvious mediocre QB on the team". How do you know that?? Do you sit in on practice?? Have you been able to study film on the other QB's on the team?? How well are Hendrix and Golson doing at reading defensive coverage?? I have not always been happy or excited about the play or decisions that Rees has made, but i am also not going to believe that a big time college football Coach is going to put his job on the line just because he likes someones personality. Kelly has done a great job of getting the most talented guys on the field in all positions, no matter what year they are. The d-line is proof of that. I realize (and have read enough to understand) that people are very passionate about this, but as a fan for over forty years I still have to believe that the Head Coach knows more than I.....I hope......

 

[NDinL.A.]

I'm also throwing the random idea out there that Kelly really wants to sign Gunner Kiel and he feels the best way to do that is to play Rees. If Kelly played Crist this year then Kiel would be worrying how in the world he is going to pass 4 QBs next year and would have to figure Crist would get a 5th year. If Kelly were to start Hendrix, Kiel would worry that Hendrix is Kelly's guy and is only one year older than him and fear he might not be given a chance to play until his senior year.

Sorry, but that's more than a stretch, it's a fairy tale. Do you really believe that?

Caoch Kelly wants/needs to win. He's won 8 of 9 and people are still calling for his head. Do you really think he is going to play his worst QB and possibly lose games just so he can get a future QB??? Of course not. BK is starting Rees simply because he feels that Rees gives his football team the best chance to win, period. And so far, you can't really argue that Rees isn't a winner, regardless of how it looks.

This spring, the QB competition will be opened again. It's up to the youngsters to wrestle it away from Rees. If they can't, that's on them. And if Rees earns the starting spot, and if some Irish fans choose not to watch him or the rest of the team play, then good effing riddance to them.

 

[Irish Beaver]

Jarrett Lee had a pretty good record at LSU. Jordan Jefferson is now the starting QB. Just saying...

 

[BabyIrish]

Seeing the way this year has went, I have no reason to belive otherwise that Tommy will be the starter come 2012 season, expect barring injury. Will there be a competition? Perhaps, but I fully expect Kelly to stick with Tommy as #1.

 

[Patulski]

I haven't missed watching a game in 8 years.. if Tommy starts against Navy next year in the opener, I might miss several games, probably totaling 13

"Sophomore quarterback Tommy Rees is on pace to record the second-best single-season completion percentage rate in ND history (minimum 100 attempts). Rees is at .672. Jimmy Clausen (2009) holds the record at .680."

 

[tommyIRISH23]

Thanks for the responses guys, but maybe I should rephrase my question.

I am not looking to start a debate over who is better between TR and the world (we have had 1000000 of those threads). I am more curious about how the other QB's have developed since last year? What are some of the knocks on Hendrix? Golson?...etc

 

[military_irish]

Thanks for the responses guys, but maybe I should rephrase my question.

I am not looking to start a debate over who is better between TR and the world (we have had 1000000 of those threads). I am more curious about how the other QB's have developed since last year? What are some of the knocks on Hendrix? Golson?...etc

I will try to answer. I think one of the biggest knocks on them, is the fact they have not grasped the whole playbook yet. We all know both are gifted in their own ways. They have a lot of potential. It is just a matter of being able to make quick and decisive decisions on the fly in the midst of a game. Maybe they don't show it in practice on a consistent basis to get more time. Either way it should be a blast in the spring.

 

[tommyIRISH23]

I will try to answer. I think one of the biggest knocks on them, is the fact they have not grasped the whole playbook yet. We all know both are gifted in their own ways. They have a lot of potential. It is just a matter of being able to make quick and decisive decisions on the fly in the midst of a game. Maybe they don't show it in practice on a consistent basis to get more time. Either way it should be a blast in the spring.

Thanks alot man, I appreciate the answer. I have to wonder, that if Hendrix hasn't picked up the playbook yet (or by the spring), maybe he never will? I could be way off on that assumption though

 

[N_D_Fighting_Irish]

The stated criteria is winning games. Rees is the only QB that is winning games. Rees will start next year and he will start all the games if we are winning. Simple as that. We might see another QB in certain situations, but our team will go as far as Rees will take us next year.

Kelly really has no other option. He can't bench Rees next year and start an inexperienced QB. In fact, how he has handled the QB situation this year will handicap this team for awhile. He can't bench Rees for performance issues. He can only bench him if the team loses...then the question is how many losses will warrant a benching. All of this talk is moot if we go undefeated next year...which we all are hoping for...even Tommy's detractors.

Our QB situation is really Kelly's doing. Every player should be held accountable for their play. Kelly has created a special criteria for Rees and it will be interesting next year.

 

[Rocket89]

"Sophomore quarterback Tommy Rees is on pace to record the second-best single-season completion percentage rate in ND history (minimum 100 attempts). Rees is at .672. Jimmy Clausen (2009) holds the record at .680."

Although to be fair, there'd be about 10 other quarterbacks on this list if they played in Kelly's spread offense and were asked to do the things that Rees is.

2008 Clausen probably would have been around 72% in this offense. 2009 Jimmy----sheesh, probably 78%.

 

[BeatSC]

Although to be fair, there'd be about 10 other quarterbacks on this list if they played in Kelly's spread offense and were asked to do the things that Rees is.

2008 Clausen probably would have been around 72% in this offense. 2009 Jimmy----sheesh, probably 78%.

If we examine the type of throws that Rees is expected to make they are amongst the simplest a QB is asked t make. What would his completion be over 10 yards beyond the LOS. HE has been fortunate to have the time to throw as he is prone to fumbling when hit and he has had some good breaks otherwise his TO to TD ratios would be 1 to 1. He looked his best coming in against USF and throwing for 300 in one half (with 3 TO's though). I don't see any real difference in Tommy from the beginning of the year. If anything he could be throwing into double coverage more often. Not bein able to manufacture some yards with his feet is troublesome.

I fear tonight he will be exposed by a solid Stanford defense. Do not be surprised if we are down by 14 if Kelly gives anyonw else a chance to make some plays. I hope I have to eat crow and Tommy outplays Luck but we all doubt it.

 

[Patulski]

Although to be fair, there'd be about 10 other quarterbacks on this list if they played in Kelly's spread offense and were asked to do the things that Rees is.

2008 Clausen probably would have been around 72% in this offense. 2009 Jimmy----sheesh, probably 78%.

Weis ran a lot of shotgun, 1 back sets. Clausen threw a lot out of 3 and 4 receiver sets, and threw his share of those easy throws to the WR when he saw 7 in the box, and those simple check downs to running backs. In 2008 Clausen threw 4 picks against BC when they dropped 8 like they did last Saturday.

People need to give Rees his due for how accurate he is.

 

[Irishpinoy]

ND needs a better qb if it wants to join the elite teams. Rees is good but not good enough against teams with good defense. I'd like to see Golson gets a chance to play. I think he'll be one hell of a qb once he understands the offense better.

 

[Patulski]

If we examine the type of throws that Rees is expected to make they are amongst the simplest a QB is asked t make. What would his completion be over 10 yards beyond the LOS. HE has been fortunate to have the time to throw as he is prone to fumbling when hit and he has had some good breaks otherwise his TO to TD ratios would be 1 to 1. He looked his best coming in against USF and throwing for 300 in one half (with 3 TO's though). I don't see any real difference in Tommy from the beginning of the year. If anything he could be throwing into double coverage more often. Not bein able to manufacture some yards with his feet is troublesome.

I fear tonight he will be exposed by a solid Stanford defense. Do not be surprised if we are down by 14 if Kelly gives anyonw else a chance to make some plays. I hope I have to eat crow and Tommy outplays Luck but we all doubt it.

Why would anybody expect Rees to outplay Luck? Luck's a senior with 34 starts vs. Rees, who's a Sophomore with 15.

As for the throws he asked to make: He throws all kinds of routes. Outs, digs, posts, curls, screens etc. Sometimes he's in the pocket. Some times its play action. Some times he rolls.

I simply do not understand why so many ND fans can't give this kid his due respect.

 

[Sweetness34]

ND needs a better qb if it wants to join the elite teams. Rees is good but not good enough against teams with good defense. I'd like to see Golson gets a chance to play. I think he'll be one hell of a qb once he understands the offense better.

I completely agree. Rees while he has been good, isn't great. In this day and age of college football, a QB like Tommy can't win you a BCS game. Even if his arm isn't the greatest it's his legs that are holding the offense back from being where it needs to be. One of the other QBs needs to step up.

 

[kmoose]

In MHO....... If it's painful again with TR (assuming he doesn't improve), and BK doesn't give AH, or EG a shot,,, BK will be on the hotseat by year end. I'm sure TR can, and will improve, but he is not a fit for the BK offense, nor does he have the raw skills to overcome the fit issues.

I think you're wrong here. Rees is a very good fit for BK's offense. BK wants a kid that can go to the line of scrimmage with options, and check into the right play based on the look of the defense. Rees does that very well. He's not perfect, but he's making the right check WAY more often than the wrong one. You're falling into the same trap that a lot of folks fall into: you're under the false assumption that Kelly needs a running QB to run his offense. Kelly himself has said, many times, that he doesn't need that guy. He wants a guy who can move around in the pocket and extend plays, but he doesn't need a runner. And anyone with some basic football knowledge will recognize that you don't need to be very mobile in the pocket, if you know where to go with the ball. Bernie Kosar ran like he was wearing scuba fins, but he was a great QB. That's because he could read defenses like a book. He knew where the ball should go, before the snap. He didn't have to be mobile in the pocket, because he didn't have to watch the play develop. He already knew, based on the pre snap read, how the play would develop. Rees is no Bernie Kosar, in that regard, but he is very good at it. And that is something that he can improve on. If he gets much better at it, the kid will be a Heisman candidate.

 

[Long Time Irish]

In fact, how he has handled the QB situation this year will handicap this team for awhile. He can't bench Rees for performance issues. He can only bench him if the team loses...then the question is how many losses will warrant a benching.

Our QB situation is really Kelly's doing. Every player should be held accountable for their play. Kelly has created a special criteria for Rees and it will be interesting next year.

I would be interested in having you explain your thoughts here.... I guess I do not understand how you think Kelly has "handicapped" the team. What should he have done, and why?? I think you are talking about not playing Hendrix more. If this is indeed your thought then let me ask this, which second year player do you give the experience to?? Rees or Hendrix?? Why??
I will say that I do not think that Kelly has "handicapped" the team by his QB play, only tried to put them in the best position to win. We, as fans, do not know what happens in practice or where the other QB's are in their development. Only the coaches do. As I have already stated and will again, I cannot believe that a Coach is going to gamble his career because he "likes" a kid.

 

[tommyIRISH23]

The stated criteria is winning games. Rees is the only QB that is winning games. Rees will start next year and he will start all the games if we are winning. Simple as that. We might see another QB in certain situations, but our team will go as far as Rees will take us next year.

Kelly really has no other option. He can't bench Rees next year and start an inexperienced QB. In fact, how he has handled the QB situation this year will handicap this team for awhile. He can't bench Rees for performance issues. He can only bench him if the team loses...then the question is how many losses will warrant a benching. All of this talk is mute if we go undefeated next year...which we all are hoping for...even Tommy's detractors.

Our QB situation is really Kelly's doing. Every player should be held accountable for their play. Kelly has created a special criteria for Rees and it will be interesting next year.

To the bolded part of your post. As far as I know, and I could be wrong, there is no QB Union that prohibits a coach from benching the QB. Coaches can bench whoever they want, for any reason they want, when they want. If Golson or Hendrix absorb all of the offense during the spring-fall camp, and give the team the best chance to win, the coach should play him. Deserved or undeserved its the coaches decision.

Now, I am not advocating Tommy be benched by any stretch soley based on the potential of the other QBs. IF another player steps up, and proves himself worthy giving ND the best chance to win...then I am all for it.

We see just a glimpse of what BK see's, I trust his evaluation.

 

[Sweetness34]

I think you're wrong here. Rees is a very good fit for BK's offense. BK wants a kid that can go to the line of scrimmage with options, and check into the right play based on the look of the defense. Rees does that very well. He's not perfect, but he's making the right check WAY more often than the wrong one. You're falling into the same trap that a lot of folks fall into: you're under the false assumption that Kelly needs a running QB to run his offense. Kelly himself has said, many times, that he doesn't need that guy. He wants a guy who can move around in the pocket and extend plays, but he doesn't need a runner. And anyone with some basic football knowledge will recognize that you don't need to be very mobile in the pocket, if you know where to go with the ball. Bernie Kosar ran like he was wearing scuba fins, but he was a great QB. That's because he could read defenses like a book. He knew where the ball should go, before the snap. He didn't have to be mobile in the pocket, because he didn't have to watch the play develop. He already knew, based on the pre snap read, how the play would develop. Rees is no Bernie Kosar, in that regard, but he is very good at it. And that is something that he can improve on. If he gets much better at it, the kid will be a Heisman candidate.

It's not about what Kelly needs to run the offense, it's about what Kelly needs at QB to win a NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIP or a BCS game and Tommy isn't that.

 

[kmoose]

It's not about what Kelly needs to run the offense, it's about what Kelly needs at QB to win a NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIP or a BCS game and Tommy isn't that.

If you think that the QB position is the only thing keeping ND from winning a NC or a BCS game, then you need to watch some more football.

 

[HereComeTheIrish]

If you think that the QB position is the only thing keeping ND from winning a NC or a BCS game, then you need to watch some more football.

+1

 

[tommyIRISH23]

If you think that the QB position is the only thing keeping ND from winning a NC or a BCS game, then you need to watch some more football.

On the plus side, I think that ND may have 85% of the pieces to enter the elite. But they are still so very young. If Kelly can keep bringing in the talent that he did last year, it won't be long. I guess what I am saying is that ND is very close close to being elite, and come September, the new faces we see may show that we are closer then it appears.

 

[N_D_Fighting_Irish]

I would be interested in having you explain your thoughts here.... I guess I do not understand how you think Kelly has "handicapped" the team. What should he have done, and why?? I think you are talking about not playing Hendrix more. If this is indeed your thought then let me ask this, which second year player do you give the experience to?? Rees or Hendrix?? Why??
I will say that I do not think that Kelly has "handicapped" the team by his QB play, only tried to put them in the best position to win. We, as fans, do not know what happens in practice or where the other QB's are in their development. Only the coaches do. As I have already stated and will again, I cannot believe that a Coach is going to gamble his career because he "likes" a kid.

I do not know what happens in practice, but Kelly's bizarre decision not to give backup QBs playing time in garbage time does handicap this team. Next year, we will have only one QB with any game experience.

 

[Sweetness34]

If you think that the QB position is the only thing keeping ND from winning a NC or a BCS game, then you need to watch some more football.

Wow, trust me I know a lot about football and I never said that the QB position is the only thing holding ND back BUT its the most important thing.

 

[N_D_Fighting_Irish]

To the bolded part of your post. As far as I know, and I could be wrong, there is no QB Union that prohibits a coach from benching the QB. Coaches can bench whoever they want, for any reason they want, when they want. If Golson or Hendrix absorb all of the offense during the spring-fall camp, and give the team the best chance to win, the coach should play him. Deserved or undeserved its the coaches decision.

Now, I am not advocating Tommy be benched by any stretch soley based on the potential of the other QBs. IF another player steps up, and proves himself worthy giving ND the best chance to win...then I am all for it.

We see just a glimpse of what BK see's, I trust his evaluation.

Our backups have no game experience. Barring an injury, what hypothetical situation do you think Kelly would start another QB next year?

 

[BeatSC]

I do not know what happens in practice, but Kelly's bizarre decision not to give backup QBs playing time in garbage time does handicap this team. Next year, we will have only one QB with any game experience.

Couldn't agree more. The only thing I can think of if he doesn't want to create a QB controversy. He as made his mind up on his QB after the USF game and has stuck to it. The QB play at ND has been sub par for a team aspiring to be a BCS caliber team. We hve had moments of weakness elsewhere as I would put our special teams play below that of our QB. At least this gives up something to talk about while we wait and see what happens next. We are going to miss Jonas Grey tonight. IF Tommy plays great against a BCS caliber defense we will all need to eat some crow. We all route for him but wont be surprised if he torws 3 picks, fumbles twice and and takes 5 sacks. Toniht has the potential to really maginify his shortcomings OR he can use his quick decision making to make a difference. I will say he gets the ball out alot faster thand Crist and Ithink this is the main reason Kelly has kept him as the #1.

 

[kmoose]

Wow, trust me I know a lot about football and I never said that the QB position is the only thing holding ND back BUT its the most important thing.

If the other pieces aren't there yet, then why do you feel Rees not being a BCS caliber QB is even relevant?

Without the other pieces, a BCS win or NC is just a dream. So why is it a bad thing that Rees isn't that kind of QB? If he's good enough to get us to where we should be, with the other pieces around him, then what's the knock on him?

 

[BeatSC]

If the other pieces aren't there yet, then why do you feel Rees not being a BCS caliber QB is even relevant?

Without the other pieces, a BCS win or NC is just a dream. So why is it a bad thing that Rees isn't that kind of QB? If he's good enough to get us to where we should be, with the other pieces around him, then what's the knock on him?

A top notch QB could have made the difference in our 3 losses. With that being said we would be in the driver's seat to play LSU in the BCS chanmpionship game. Our QB's were responsible for 3 TO's in each of those 3 losses. Dayne gets credit for 2 of the 9.

 

[kmoose]

A top notch QB could have made the difference in our 3 losses. With that being said we would be in the driver's seat to play LSU in the BCS chanmpionship game. Our QB's were responsible for 3 TO's in each of those 3 losses. Dayne gets credit for 2 of the 9.

So you think that the QB position is the only thing keeping this ND team from competing for a NC?

A defense that didn't give up easy 4th quarter TD drives would probably have us at 10 wins, right now, too.

 

[BGIF]

A top notch QB could have made the difference in our 3 losses. With that being said we would be in the driver's seat to play LSU in the BCS chanmpionship game. Our QB's were responsible for 3 TO's in each of those 3 losses. Dayne gets credit for 2 of the 9.

A top notch QB could have made the difference but HE didn't.

ND's 5 Star, injury prone QB didn't turn out to be that guy, last season, opening day, or coming off the bench. He didn't play well enough to keep the 3 year younger, weak armed, no speed, turnover prone, 3 Star underclassman on the bench.

"NEXT MAN IN!"

The true sophomore replacement is 12-2 and already in the Top 5 or 6 in a lot of ND All-Time QB Stats including leading in some. He's not pretty but he's got more upside. He doesn't play like a deer in headlights.


Rees last drive gave ND the lead over Michigan with what a minute on the clock?

Are you proposing Montana, Quinn, Clausen, Luck, or Newton would have covered that Michigan recevier on the wheel route? The 60 yard pass play where NOBODY covered the guy and NOBODY tackled him as he weaved across the field.

It is possible I suppose, although they weren't DBs, that they ALSO would have at least turned their heads and looked for the !@#$ ball instead of doing a Clifford Jefferson imitation.