Presidential Election 2024

TorontoGold

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Do you even hear yourself? This is the third time in as many elections that the DNC has pulled some shit. You think Dem voters actually have a say in it? Yes, I remember that happening. It's the exact moment I woke up to all this nonsense. The DNC and RNC are in the business of amassing and maintaining power....AT THE EXPENSE of their respected constituencies. We should all be calling them out for it.

I never latched myself onto anyone. I've been an IND voter almost my entire adult life. I simply respect and agree with certain principles and philosophies of candidates. Trump, Bernie, RFK, etc. I've agreed and disagreed with all of them. There isn't a perfect politician for me, nor is there a perfect party.

How could you possibly know which progressive policies I support and don't support? And no, RFK is not my savior. Jesus Christ is my Savior and I'm perfectly content with where my renewed faith in Him has lead me. Thank you very much.

This is exactly why progressives are pissed at the DNC? Like what? That was the moment you woke up? If the moment you woke up is in the year 2016 then I don't know what to tell you. Maybe when Barry let Wall Street off the hook would have been a great wake up moment, but yeah a political party operating.....like a political party works too.

Your posting history is weaving this nice story about "calling out both sides" ie just complaining about the DNC, and then propping up RFK as if he's a serious person.

How someone can call back to the founding fathers and religion, and then handwave away the transgressions that should be the most important to them is wild. The convicted felon adulterer who showed disregard for the constitution should be the focus of your ire, but it isn't. Just say you don't like the Dem policies, because being upset at one party because of their corruption in how they run their selection process is....something.
 

drayer54

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Long read.
Long fabricated hit pieceby a Kamala donor. Shared by media partners as real and quickly, meaning it was strategized. All anonymous sources. Nobody can corroborate the story. Its a shameless demonstration of our state media at work. CBS led with it. Our media is a joke and The Atlantic is not even media.






In actual news- this is amazing
 

NDVirginia19

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They are banking this bullshit story so much Kamabla just came out from the VP residence as a hail mary to hammer this home and campaign from the office of Vice President. What a disgrace.
 

Irish#1

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Story doesn't add up. Admittedly can't read it but have seen the reporting.

First, John Kelly has credibility problems. His whole "suckers and losers" thing reflected very poorly on him. Could I be convinced Donald has made some poorly worded comments about how soldiers died needlessly? Of course. But does anyone actually genuinely listen to Donald Trump and think he is basically in the Westboro Baptist Church? No.

Second, timing. Why is Donald saying these things to John Kelly and no one else? Why is he waiting until 2024 to share this stuff? It's all too convenient. Not to be that guy, but I don't think it's nuts to believe a certain type of republican cares much more about Lockheed, Raytheon, etc. than anything else.

For example, Liz Cheney co-sponsored a bill that would have banned abortion nationwide from conception a few years ago. This week, she says she thinks Dobbs (simply allows states to establish state's to dictate abortion within their respective borders) went too far. She thought Kamala was a Marxist or something and now she's campaigning for her.

Next, invoking Hitler's generals loyalty. Even ignoring the repeated issues Hitler had with generals trying to kill him... the allegation is he wants loyalty. Suppose Hitler's generals were loyal, desiring similar loyalty is perfectly normal. Every boss wants dedicated employees. In the film Downfall (Hitler's last days in the bunker), Hitler laments that he didn't purge the German officer corps like Stalin did. Does that make (the movie version) Hitler a commie? No. It means he wishes he had a more competent/loyal/(insert trait/attribute/quality here) staff.

Even so, the convo reads like John Kelly wants to sound deeply serious and is all too convenient. Bismarck's generals? What? Dude had an imaginary conversation in the shower, or is taking comments very far out of context. Hitler is (rightly) considered the personification of evil for basically everyone. If you want to portray someone as evil, Hitler is likely to be used as a comparison. John Kelly is probably a reasonably intelligent person and knows that to tie Donald to Hitler in any way, shape, or form is to portray him in a negative light.

John Kelly is a retired general. That's great for him and I'm grateful for his service, but he's a retired general. He got that rank by playing the game. Maybe I'm a bit jaded as the kid of an officer and I myself am an attorney, people with stars on their shoulder or letters after their name are probably better at lying or misleading than anyone else.

Tl;Dr- allegations read like sour grapes, make little sense, and are a false appeal to authority. Donald learns how fries are made at McDonald's and thinks it's fascinating.
I'm beginning to think the Harris campaign thinks her bid is in trouble. Calling Trump unhinged and increasingly unstable smacks of desperation. Particularly when it's coming from the "all inclusive" candidate.
 

ab2cmiller

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I'm beginning to think the Harris campaign thinks her bid is in trouble. Calling Trump unhinged and increasingly unstable smacks of desperation. Particularly when it's coming from the "all inclusive" candidate.
She promoted herself as an agent of change
She then proceeded to go on multiple interviews and tell the world that she can't think of a thing that she would've changed in the last 3 1/2 years
The only tool that she has left is to pull out the fascist card (again).
 

BleedBlueGold

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This is exactly why progressives are pissed at the DNC? Like what? That was the moment you woke up? If the moment you woke up is in the year 2016 then I don't know what to tell you. Maybe when Barry let Wall Street off the hook would have been a great wake up moment, but yeah a political party operating.....like a political party works too.

Your posting history is weaving this nice story about "calling out both sides" ie just complaining about the DNC, and then propping up RFK as if he's a serious person.

How someone can call back to the founding fathers and religion, and then handwave away the transgressions that should be the most important to them is wild. The convicted felon adulterer who showed disregard for the constitution should be the focus of your ire, but it isn't. Just say you don't like the Dem policies, because being upset at one party because of their corruption in how they run their selection process is....something.

You have a weird way of assuming things and twisting things into a broad generalization in order to make yourself feel better. It's quite exhausting.

Most people in this country are very casual (at best) followers of politics. Myself included....up until 2016. Hence my "waking up" comment. Seeing the DNC railroad Bernie with a complicit MSM cog was mind blowing for me because it was the first time I ever paid attention. But worse, seeing how all of my "anti-HRC progressive" friends became easily gaslit into not only voting for her, but to also viscously defend her, really caused me to question everything. The more I read and the more I diversified my sources, the more obvious it became that things aren't as bad, or as good, as they seem. Trying to understand someone else's point of view (without automatically labeling them an ignorant, low life, racist...like some do) really helped me see that most Americans have the same goals, we just have fundamental differences in the ideas put forth to achieve said goals. And that's ok. We should be free to open and honest debate.

My "posting history" is lost at sea. Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but the site went through an overhaul and I'm pretty sure a ton of threads got lost or deleted. You can't possibly know how I feel about any topic because you never take the time to ask. You just assume, make accusations, etc. I've been posting on this board for a long time. Some of my thoughts and ideas have changed/adapted as I've continued to learn more and more. But overall, I'm still relatively in the center of most discussions. If my posts seem one-sided lately, it's likely due to the fact that I'm sick and tired of seeing DNC propaganda and being labeled a racist by friends and family for having the audacity to say things like "the DNC is corrupt." Shrug.

Lastly, once again, you've chosen to assume that because I don't incessantly pluck the low hanging fruit that is Trump, that I must be be in agreement. I just find it far more interesting to discuss why the Dem party has moved away from the values my parents and grandparents knew. My family were all Kennedy democrats. Working class, unions, etc. Now NONE of them feel represented by the Dem party. Why is that? So instead of blindly following the Dem party as we know it today, because of our religion, our loyalty to the founders ideas, and policy positions (some of which are still Dem, others not), we've found ourselves more in line with the American Solidarity Party, which is as Christian democratic party. Their candidate has been written in on all of my ballots for going on three elections now. But please continue to tell me that I hate Dem policies and that RFK is my savior and I love Trump.
 

RDU Irish

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I'm beginning to think the Harris campaign thinks her bid is in trouble. Calling Trump unhinged and increasingly unstable smacks of desperation. Particularly when it's coming from the "all inclusive" candidate.

I don't get the "trouble" and "desperation" - seems par for the course. How does everyone forget the last eight years so easily? The main tone change is that way fewer people buy into it than any time I can remember.
 

TorontoGold

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You have a weird way of assuming things and twisting things into a broad generalization in order to make yourself feel better. It's quite exhausting.

Most people in this country are very casual (at best) followers of politics. Myself included....up until 2016. Hence my "waking up" comment. Seeing the DNC railroad Bernie with a complicit MSM cog was mind blowing for me because it was the first time I ever paid attention. But worse, seeing how all of my "anti-HRC progressive" friends became easily gaslit into not only voting for her, but to also viscously defend her, really caused me to question everything. The more I read and the more I diversified my sources, the more obvious it became that things aren't as bad, or as good, as they seem. Trying to understand someone else's point of view (without automatically labeling them an ignorant, low life, racist...like some do) really helped me see that most Americans have the same goals, we just have fundamental differences in the ideas put forth to achieve said goals. And that's ok. We should be free to open and honest debate.

My "posting history" is lost at sea. Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but the site went through an overhaul and I'm pretty sure a ton of threads got lost or deleted. You can't possibly know how I feel about any topic because you never take the time to ask. You just assume, make accusations, etc. I've been posting on this board for a long time. Some of my thoughts and ideas have changed/adapted as I've continued to learn more and more. But overall, I'm still relatively in the center of most discussions. If my posts seem one-sided lately, it's likely due to the fact that I'm sick and tired of seeing DNC propaganda and being labeled a racist by friends and family for having the audacity to say things like "the DNC is corrupt." Shrug.

Lastly, once again, you've chosen to assume that because I don't incessantly pluck the low hanging fruit that is Trump, that I must be be in agreement. I just find it far more interesting to discuss why the Dem party has moved away from the values my parents and grandparents knew. My family were all Kennedy democrats. Working class, unions, etc. Now NONE of them feel represented by the Dem party. Why is that? So instead of blindly following the Dem party as we know it today, because of our religion, our loyalty to the founders ideas, and policy positions (some of which are still Dem, others not), we've found ourselves more in line with the American Solidarity Party, which is as Christian democratic party. Their candidate has been written in on all of my ballots for going on three elections now. But please continue to tell me that I hate Dem policies and that RFK is my savior and I love Trump.
Feeling better? Oh brother, this is an internet forum - if anyone feels "better" after posting in this thread they need help.

Honestly, there should be no person who lived through 9/11 and 2008 to have not been "woken up". It's not being a follower of politics to see the Government lie to you about an invasion and then see the other party lie to you about "cleaning up corruption" and letting the bad actors off scott free.

I'm speaking about your recent posting history that is able to be searched up. I can only assume when you're posting empty platitudes about "both sides etc", what are actual policy positions you agree with from the DNC? Are you writing them off entirely because of the selection process? Give some meat to bone here.

Your discussions with Liberals (yes there is a difference between progressives and liberals) is not something you can paint everyone on the Left with. Neoliberalism is why we're at where we're at right now. I would prefer to see the West move towards a more social democracy approach similar to European countries. Rather than the Nationalist/Religious tilt that is rising. So you'll find no love lost with me for the DNC.
 

GATTACA!

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I'm beginning to think the Harris campaign thinks her bid is in trouble. Calling Trump unhinged and increasingly unstable smacks of desperation. Particularly when it's coming from the "all inclusive" candidate.
Early voting is smashing records all over the country. I really don’t see it.


Wonder what they have tape of Trump saying

I’m betting it’s him calling Kamala retarded. Bonus points if he purposely says her name wrong.
 

NDVirginia19

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I find it incredibly hard to believe that there exists a tape or video of Trump, who has been public enemy #1 from Dems since 2016, that somehow failed to materialize through two elections already. It would have to be something recent for me to consider buying it. A sudden tape of him saying the N word in 2010 I just could not believe on its face
 

TorontoGold

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I find it incredibly hard to believe that there exists a tape or video of Trump, who has been public enemy #1 from Dems since 2016, that somehow failed to materialize through two elections already. It would have to be something recent for me to consider buying it. A sudden tape of him saying the N word in 2010 I just could not believe on its face
If it didn't come out when Pecker was arrested, then I don't think it could be anything substantial.

Also, even if it was real would Trump supporters even care? Like let's say for arguments sake it's a video of Trump saying "Kamala is a fucking retard bitch" would you change your vote?
 

NDVirginia19

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If it didn't come out when Pecker was arrested, then I don't think it could be anything substantial.

Also, even if it was real would Trump supporters even care? Like let's say for arguments sake it's a video of Trump saying "Kamala is a fucking retard bitch" would you change your vote?
No, I do think that's sort of a factor that doesn't apply to Trump. He hasn't really ever had an image of being anything but uncouth, it would hurt somebody who pretends to be nice more than it would hurt Trump. I do think him dropping a racial slur could significantly threaten the gains he's made minority voters this cycle. That being said, the type of people who would see somebody saying the word retard or bitch as disqualifying are not in Trump's camp anyways. Additionally, I've already voted.
 

ab2cmiller

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If it didn't come out when Pecker was arrested, then I don't think it could be anything substantial.

Also, even if it was real would Trump supporters even care? Like let's say for arguments sake it's a video of Trump saying "Kamala is a fucking retard bitch" would you change your vote?
The only thing that would move the needle significantly at this point is something that is along the lines of fascist dictator stuff which is consistent with the current Harris talking point.

I suppose with a close election, it wouldn't have to be something along that line. Just enough to convince 1 or 2 people out of 100 to switch.
 

Sea Turtle

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They are doing everything they can now to blunt his momentum. Something else will come out next week. Something devestating that is being passed around. Something that people believe is false. They are just hoping one outlet will take one for the team and run it.

I read this in an article from Drudge this morning.
 

IrishLax

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Early voting is smashing records all over the country. I really don’t see it.

I’m betting it’s him calling Kamala retarded. Bonus points if he purposely says her name wrong.
This would get him more votes than it would lose him.

Maybe it's him going full Randy Marsh.
 

ab2cmiller

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The huge advantage that the Dem's have is that the media will carry the water for them. Hunter Biden story comes up and the media is there to assure the citizens of the US that it's Russian disinformation. If it's something against Trump, I'm not counting on a lot of skepticism.
 

TorontoGold

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The only thing that would move the needle significantly at this point is something that is along the lines of fascist dictator stuff which is consistent with the current Harris talking point.

I suppose with a close election, it wouldn't have to be something along that line. Just enough to convince 1 or 2 people out of 100 to switch.
But would that? The talking points would be incredibly easy to put out to calm people down on it. Unless it's him looking directly at the camera saying "Heil Hitler" I don't think anyone would care. His former staff members have put out a number of things of him praising or admiring dictators and it didn't make a dent.

No, I do think that's sort of a factor that doesn't apply to Trump. He hasn't really ever had an image of being anything but uncouth, it would hurt somebody who pretends to be nice more than it would hurt Trump. I do think him dropping a racial slur could significantly threaten the gains he's made minority voters this cycle. That being said, the type of people who would see somebody saying the word retard or bitch as disqualifying are not in Trump's camp anyways. Additionally, I've already voted.

Exactly my point. People have already baked into their choice that Trump will/has said horrible/racist/sexist things. At this point people have already moved past it. If the DNC stuck to articulating on why his policies are terrible it would message better, than "Trump is a horrible guy".
 

ab2cmiller

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Halperin is pretty independent. He's stated he doesn't think it's true and would refuse to run with it. But he doesn't really know for sure. Someone will run with it, guaranteed. I assumed that it was related to the Atlantic article that just came out last night, but could be something totally different.
 

Irish#1

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Halperin is pretty independent. He's stated he doesn't think it's true and would refuse to run with it. But he doesn't really know for sure. Someone will run with it, guaranteed. I assumed that it was related to the Atlantic article that just came out last night, but could be something totally different.
Coming out so close to election day definitely has a smell to it. I would think most people will pick up on that.
 

NDVirginia19

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Spare me
Yeah and Vance later said he bought what the media was saying and changed his mind and was previously wrong. Trying to remember when those media outlets and figures later said they were wrong for calling Bush, Cheney, Romney, et al. Fascist and just like Hitler… might have missed the mea culpa now that they’re begging for their endorsements for democrats
 

Sea Turtle

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It will be something disparaging bout blacks. Kamala is struggling to get black men to vote for her. Not only that, many are breaking for Trump.
 
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TorontoGold

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Yeah and Vance later said he bought what the media was saying and changed his mind and was previously wrong. Trying to remember when those media outlets and figures later said they were wrong for calling Bush, Cheney, Romney, et al. Fascist and just like Hitler… might have missed the mea culpa now that they’re begging for their endorsements for democrats

And conservative media has been just an arbiter of honest reporting and never called anyone on the Left a Communist. Glass houses and stones.
 

Rocket89

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Trump has been in the Tyson Zone for so long I can’t think of anything he’d say that would surprise me.

So many people ignore it, are sick/bored of controversy surrounding him, distrust the media, etc. that I think any “he said this!” is probably a net benefit for Trump.
 

GATTACA!

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Yeah and Vance later said he bought what the media was saying and changed his mind and was previously wrong. Trying to remember when those media outlets and figures later said they were wrong for calling Bush, Cheney, Romney, et al. Fascist and just like Hitler… might have missed the mea culpa now that they’re begging for their endorsements for democrats
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