Post Game Observations (Florida State '14)

[N_D_Fighting_Irish]

That is your guess, or he said so, somewhere?

That is what I infer. It is the only non nefarious explanation for the bullshit call.

Apparently the ref is the guy who called targeting against Tuitt in last year's Pitt game. Mere coincidence?

 

[WakeUpEchoes]

This worth the 14 page read? Anybody meltdown last night? Cliffs please

Pretty much everyone needs to seek professional help.

 

[Green Goblin]

And now the mother ship has Keyshawn (yes a U$C enrollee) providing analysis. How could that possibly be jaded?

Yep, Desmond Howard (Michigan) and Keyshawn Johnson (USC) bringing us fair and balanced about the play.

Made me want to jump through the screen when he says "Oh well, instead of blocking, you should pull back and try and force them to hold you."

Ah, Keysh, did you actually examine the play?

Because it was, without a doubt, defensive holding on Ramsey. 100%

 

[Buster Bluth]

Why is no one talking about Darby face guarding Robinson on the throw to the front corner of the end zone late in the fourth quarter?

Face guarding isn't illegal.

 

[GBdomer]

I think if we keep bitching about it and bringing it up and claiming how it was the wrong call, they might switch it? Not sure but maybe

 

[OCIrish]

From the replays that I watched this morning, and rewound and watched again.....Procise was held, and damn near drug down. It was a crap call by the ACC officiating, and as much as I dislike the call.....not a damn thing any one of us, or ND coaches can do about it now. Win out and let things fall where they will.

 

[GoldenDomer]

Glad BK stood up for his guys and called bullshit when he saw it instead of the usual "that wasn't the difference" coaching line.

 

[Guest]

So your argument is that because the Florida State Defensive backs got confused, then any blocking that ND's receivers might have done, with the ball in the air, is not Pass Interference?

It has been clearly shown several times by screencaps and replays that the WR were not blocking. They did not position their hands as such. They were interfered in their routes. It should have been a no call.

 

[kmoose]

It has been clearly shown several times by screencaps and replays that the WR were not blocking. They did not position their hands as such. They were interfered in their routes. It should have been a no call.

Maybe in your mind, but "clearly" is a stretch.

 

[GoldenDomer]

Just made my final observation, now i'm sick to my stomach.

FSU was in MAN.

We had 3 receivers out there, Robinson was #3 and ran the flat.

C-Rob's man simply didn't get out there, and in no way was interfered with, didn't run into anyone, nobody touched him, nothing.

When Robinson catches the TD, his fellow defenders look at him like "where the fuck are you!?".

Flag comes in...

FSU didn't even think it was a flag. It was a blown coverage. FUCK!!!!!!!!!

 

[Guest]

Maybe in your mind, but "clearly" is a stretch.

The rules have been posted in this thread and the game thread. The screen caps and Vine video clearly show that the rules were not violated. Further, they show that the receiver called for PI was actually being held and his outside shoulder had been drug downward by the DB. It is clear for anyone who has their eyes open, as you apparently don't.

If you wan't to continue arguing your point, you'll get no further engagement from me. The point has been proven already and you are simply wrong by video evidence presented. I don't care what your opinion is, I only care what the facts are.

 

[Guest]

Just made my final observation, now i'm sick to my stomach.

FSU was in MAN.

We had 3 receivers out there, Robinson was #3 and ran the flat.

C-Rob's man simply didn't get out there, and in no way was interfered with, didn't run into anyone, nobody touched him, nothing.

When Robinson catches the TD, his fellow defenders look at him like "where the fuck are you!?".

Flag comes in...

FSU didn't even think it was a flag. It was a blown coverage. FUCK!!!!!!!!!

True. The DB raises his hands at his own teammates in confusion, proving it was a busted coverage. This is in contrast to the fairy tale Herbstreit was trying to make on the broadcast. That and the fact that the ref with the worst possible view of the play made the call, while the 2 refs who had completely open looks at it signaled touchdown, tells you all you need to know about the call. The vine circulating from the near side of the play shows it was a TD with no penalty pretty clearly.

 

[BobD]

Well here ya go guys. Here's a link to espns polls. Right now the majority feel it was a bad call. Check it out and cast your vote.

SportsNation Polls - SportsNation - ESPN

 

[rtrn2glory]

i'm usually not the one to say this gentlemen.

but let it go.

we are better than this.

season's not over yes it's our jobs as fans to bitch and moan, but let's not act like this anymore.

 

[kmoose]

The rules have been posted in this thread and the game thread. The screen caps and Vine video clearly show that the rules were not violated. Further, they show that the receiver called for PI was actually being held and his outside shoulder had been drug downward by the DB. It is clear for anyone who has their eyes open, as you apparently don't.

If you wan't to continue arguing your point, you'll get no further engagement from me. The point has been proven already and you are simply wrong by video evidence presented. I don't care what your opinion is, I only care what the facts are.

The facts are this:

Per the rule, it is the offensive player's responsibility to avoid any contact with the defensive player that might result in impeding the defensive player.

Darby jumped in front of Fuller, initiating the contact. That's not a penalty, and the onus is still on Fuller to avoid contact.

Fuller did not avoid contact, and was physically engaged with the defender as the ball was thrown and caught.

That's Offensive Pass Interference. Blown coverages and the crew's history with ND are immaterial.

If you want to make the argument that the guy should have kept the flag in his pocket, then I think you might have a point. But, in that case, I would go back to the scenario of reversing the roles: If it were ND on Defense, and an FSU receiver did the same thing? Most everyone would be screaming "fixed", if the official didn't call it.

 

[Guest]

Well here ya go guys. Here's a link to espns polls. Right now the majority feel it was a bad call. Check it out and cast your vote.

SportsNation Polls - SportsNation - ESPN

57% wrong call by that poll.

 

[BobD]

57% wrong call by that poll.

And it will get higher now that it's posted here

 

[Guest]

The facts are this:

Per the rule, it is the offensive player's responsibility to avoid any contact with the defensive player that might result in impeding the defensive player.

Darby jumped in front of Fuller, initiating the contact. That's not a penalty, and the onus is still on Fuller to avoid contact.

Fuller did not avoid contact, and was physically engaged with the defender as the ball was thrown and caught.

That's Offensive Pass Interference. Blown coverages and the crew's history with ND are immaterial.

If you want to make the argument that the guy should have kept the flag in his pocket, then I think you might have a point. But, in that case, I would go back to the scenario of reversing the roles: If it were ND on Defense, and an FSU receiver did the same thing? Most everyone would be screaming "fixed", if the official didn't call it.

I never mentioned previous blown calls and don't think those affect this one.

The rule states that the offensive player should not be called for PI where there is contact. He should try to avoid him, but that IS NOT offensive PI. Black and white.

As far as whether the WR was trying to block on a passing play, the video clearly shows they did not have their hands in blocking position. There was simply contact because the WR was trying to run a route. In other words, a NON CALL. Which is why the officials with the clearest view didn't call it. The one with the worst view did, which means he likely made an assumption on what the WR was doing based on WHAT HE COULD NOT ACTUALLY SEE.

 

[NDTH91]

i'm usually not the one to say this gentlemen.

but let it go.

we are better than this.

season's not over yes it's our jobs as fans to bitch and moan, but let's not act like this anymore.

I'm in this boat. As much as I think it was a BS call, I would rather have some more constructive discussion about some of the other 70+ plays that we ran.

Day and Jones impressed me. Jaylon was Jaylon a few times last night and it is still awesome to watch. Everett seems to play so much better on the road, idk why. He missed a few throws over the top that I thought he could've hit. CRob came up huge, Fuller played well again.

I was confused about how much space we gave their WRs on our all out blitzes. If you're sending 8 guys, the QB is gonna have to get rid of it pretty quick. Thought we could've played tighter and probably forced a few more INTs.

But hey, what do I know? Discuss.

 

[kmoose]

Exactly.

The guy with the worst vantage point made the call....think about that for a minute.

Serious question, I am not trying to give you a hard time about it, but... Do you have any knowledge of how an officiating crew works?

The reason that I ask is this: I have a good friend who is an official in SoCal (Ventura County). He has worked his way up through High School, including being on the crew that officiated multiple State Championship games, to now doing JuCo games. Each member of the crew has a responsibility on each play. When there is a catch on the sidelines, you usually see the two officials checking with each other. That's because one guy has responsibility for possession, and another guy has responsibility for the receiver being in bounds. If the Umpire is responsible for possession, and the Side Judge is responsible for inbounds............. Let's say that the Umpire declares that the receiver had possession, but he(the Umpire) saw his (the receiver) foot come down on the white line, so he calls it an incomplete pass. If the Side Judge (who has responsibility for inbounds) saw the feet differently, he will overrule the Umpire, and a catch will be rewarded (assuming possession was established). So it really doesn't matter who was in the best position.... Because, if the guy who was in the best position (99.9% of the time this is the guy with "responsibility")sees it differently, he will come in and overrule the other official. And that didn't happen here.

 

[BobD]

I believe it sucks that they called it, but it was a penalty.

I also believe that no matter how butt hurt or mad I get, the game is over and done. Life is too short. We have a great team and a fantastic year going....Let's get into the playoff and set things right!

It would be so nice to repay Alabama and FSU.

I have a Salesman that works for me, he's an FSU grad and a huge fan. He called me today to give me a bad time, but also added that on a neutral field, we'd beat them badly and he hopes we don't play again this year.

Go Irish!

 

[kmoose]

The rule states that the offensive player should not be called for PI where there is contact. He should try to avoid him, but that IS NOT offensive PI. Black and white.

7-3-8-b
2014 PenaltyA.R.


Offensive pass interference by a team a player beyond the neutral zone during a legal forward pass play in which a forward pass crosses the neutral zone is contact that interferes with a team b eligible player. It is the responsibility of the offensive player to avoid the opponents. It is not offensive pass interference (A.R. 7-3-8-IV, V, X, XV and XVI):
1.When, after the snap, a team a ineligible player immediately charges and contacts an opponent at a point not more than one yard beyond the neutral zone and does not continue the contact more than three yards beyond the neutral zone.
2.When two or more eligible players are making a simultaneous and bona fide attempt to reach, catch or bat the pass. Eligible players of either team have equal rights to the ball (A.R. 7-3-8-IX).
3.When the pass is in flight and two or more eligible players are in the area where they might receive or intercept the pass and an offensive player in that area impedes an opponent, and the pass is not catchable.

Where do you see "try" in there? And where do you see where "the offensive player should not be called for PI where there is contact"?

 

[kmoose]

I have a Salesman that works for me, he's an FSU grad and a huge fan. He called me today to give me a bad time

Bob: Tom, I'm really sorry about that problem with your expense account.

Salesman: I'm not having any problems with my expense account.

Bob: Maybe not now, but if you don't STFU about ND losing, you're going to. And those expense accounts can take FOREVER to get fixed, once something goes wrong with one.

 

[irishog77]

I think the most amazing thing about all this is the desire, time, effort, and energy some have used to argue their point on a message board.

Some of y'all are totally winning the internet.

 

[Booslum31]

I believe it sucks that they called it, but it was a penalty.

I also believe that no matter how butt hurt or mad I get, the game is over and done. Life is too short. We have a great team and a fantastic year going....Let's get into the playoff and set things right!

It would be so nice to repay Alabama and FSU.

I have a Salesman that works for me, he's an FSU grad and a huge fan. He called me today to give me a bad time, but also added that on a neutral field, we'd beat them badly and he hopes we don't play again this year.

Go Irish!

Mysales guy who covers Florida has been texting me giving me grief. I just informed him that his quota just went up and he's on a PIP.

 

[IrishSteelhead]

Post Game Observations (Florida State '14)

I got nothing to add that wasn't already said, so this will be short:

1) Very tough game to sleep after
2) I'm so damn proud of our team. From top to bottom, EVERYONE was locked in, and played their hearts out. There are no moral victories, but I hope our guys hold their head high this week, they won more than they lost on Saturday night.

GO IRISH!

 

[Butchie]

Wrong player. Justifiable call.

Prosise, #20, was jammed at the LOS and pushed, fought his man into the endzone. I think one can weakly argue he was blocking but he was jammed and remained entangled with that defender. IF Prosise WAS blocking he did it with finesse.

So where's the foul?

Tell me about Fuller, #7, on this play.

Watch Fuller and the defender become "entangled", be a jam or a block, as he and Prosise together wall off the third defender who is supposed to covering Robinson as well as the two guys covering them.

Continue to watch him as Fuller engages his man AND TURNS HIS HEAD TO WATCH THE PLAY. Sorry but Fuller played his hand poorly. "Receivers" trying to get open, fight to get free and look for the ball. I see no attempt to disengage to get free TO BE A POTENTIAL RECEIVER but worse I see a blocker looking for his ball carrier NOT for the ball. Fuller's head turn sells that his function was blocking.

It was a well designed play executed well by QB and WR. Unfortunately one of the actors in the play overplayed his part, tipping off the ref who has a clear line of sight to him and sees the blocker turning his eyes toward the actual receiver (in line with the ref, eyeball to eyeball) and NOT looking toward the QB to find the ball which is what a receiver would do.

If the ref called the foul on 20 he had the wrong number but right foul. Refs calling a false start or a hold on the wrong OL or RB doesn't overturn a flag on technical grounds.

Let me explain to you why your absolutely wrong. Both Prosise's and Fuller's defenders extend their arms to engage contact. This is legal but only for 3 yards. Upon its origination Prosise's guy is OK . . . until he continues the engagement past 5 yards into the end zone and then at the end (where many are confused) you can see Prosise's shirt extend down to the point he almost tumbles over. This defender played right into the concept of the play. He didn't have to be blocked or rubbed because he engage in extended illegal contact taking himself out of the play. A holding call should have been called on him. Fuller's man is wrong from the inception. He does not extend his arms to engage until Fuller makes his cut on the slant and this is beyond the 3 yards allowed for a jam. This is PI. Period. This defender also plays right into the concept of the play and Fuller does not have to rub him - he back pedals, initiates illegal contact and takes himself out of the play also. The two defenders on Prosise and Fuller blew the coverage and failed to switch to Robinson and all but blocked/rubbed Roibinsons man out of the play. It was a blown coverage with multiple defensive penalties.

Now to your notion of Fuller turning around to watch the play. Are you kidding me? Who doesn't? That is the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard. Watch it one more time and watch when his head turns to Golson and then to Robinson after Golson's release. He looked to Golson - like a receiver running a route should - and then followed the ball as it was thrown. C'mon man! We're all frustrated, but your better than this.

 

[CurtisCandy]

I'm in the camp of people that think this was a bad call. I believe it should have been a no-call because both pairs of players were tied up in fighting that could have been initiated and extended by either side. I believe Coach Kelly was 100% right when he said that Florida State blew their coverage and got rewarded for it.

That said, the big upside for us is, I don't think this changed the path we need to take to reach the Final Four at all.

With the way the upcoming schedule shakes out for the other contenders having to play one another, if ND wins out I believe they're in. Had our boys won the FSU game, I still believe we needed to win out to get in, otherwise our 1 loss would have come to a less respected team and come later in the season, which is hard to overcome.

And as an aside:

Fuck Jimbo Fisher

Fuck Jameis Winston

And Fuck FSU, the sleaziest university in the country! I hope they are found to have criminally interfered in the investigation of a crime and their program gets the Death Sentence!

 

[Circa]

Where do you see "try" in there? And where do you see where "the offensive player should not be called for PI where there is contact"?

You are heralded and looked up to not only by me but I'm sure many other's on this site. If you are an Ex. Ref. I understand that you may understand their point of view. Had the call not been in that situation on that stage I would tend to agree. The fact is there is no possible way that gets called ever! in the same scenario on just any other givin saturday. You're a good man and I appreciate your knowledge. I just think you're overthinking atm

 

[kmoose]

You are heralded and looked up to not only by me but I'm sure many other's on this site. If you are an Ex. Ref. I understand that you may understand their point of view. Had the call not been in that situation on that stage I would tend to agree. The fact is there is no possible way that gets called ever! in the same scenario on just any other givin saturday. You're a good man and I appreciate your knowledge. I just think you're overthinking atm

I'm just trying to respond to specific points made by others. I can't help it if the guy didn't remember the rule correctly; or simply got caught making it up, figuring that everyone on a message board is too lazy to actually look it up.