Politics

[Bishop2b5]

- Wikipedia is the "defense's side of things" - Wikipedia is sourced by both sides of the spectrum and references are required, so again, nothing is going to be allowed to become very slanted
- "She was string suspected of and linked to several terrorist attacks, bank robberies, and murders, including several murders of cops." Boy are you reaching my friend to double down on and fit your narrative
--- Between April 5th 1971 and January 23rd 1973, Shakur was accused six times for crimes ranging from Kidnapping, to Armed Robbery, Attempted Murder and Murder; on each of the six occasions, Assata Shakur was found not guilty through dismissals, mistrials, acquittals and a hung jury.
--- It later emerged that in 1973; the FBI had two separate task forces (COINTELPRO, CHESROB – which had been an evolution of NEWKILL) attempting to tie Shakur to any and every violent activity on the East Coast of the United States as a way to discredit the Black Liberation Army; by 1972, she was even labeled the “revolutionary mother hen” of a Black Liberation Army cell that had conducted a “series of cold-blooded murders of New York City police officers,” including the “execution style murders” of New York Police Officers.
--- Again, none of this was proven and she only had the one set of convictions for the 1973 NJ Turnpike murder of the NJ State Trooper and the associated charges.
- And again, the court proceedings and circumstances are highly suspect and her being the murderer of the State Trooper is highly debatable; and it was known the FBI wanted her locked up for life or dead as she was a the face and a vocal leader of BLA
- "She was a straight up domestic terrorist, thief, and murderer." Being a leader of the BLA doesn't make her a terrorist or thief (and she wasn't convicted of anything re: these labels); murder yes, which is serious, but that conviction is highly suspect
- "She was involved in the commission of a felony that resulted in a death. By law, she's guilty of murder." -- Again, the whole court case and proceedings are highly suspect so this comment means nothing
- "Instead of just reading a very slanted version from Wikipedia or a sympathetic site..." Who made you an expert on the legitimacy and accuracy of Wikipedia?

- Did some BLA members walking around packing (I'm sure they did, maybe for self defense)
- Did Shakur run around with some unsavory BLA members who committed crimes? Likely, not sure to what extent they committed robberies or terrorist acts, but it sounds like they may have robbed some banks for funding purposes, which of course is wrong; I'm not an expert on the group
- Did any in the group murder cops? Again, I'm not an expert on the group, but it sounds like some members believed in carrying guns when needed for armed resistance (It's not hard to understand in that era how there were likely many cases of police abuses, false convictions, and even murders of black folks being pulled over -- That was a contentious time in our country and conservative white folks, and especially many in the police dept., didn't want to see Black Americans standing up for their rights
- Was she a face for the group? It sounds like it, but it doesn't make her a murderer and terrorist
- And yes, maybe the CTU should have refrained from making the honoring statement since she was controversial, but again, the CTU doesn't represent the minds of ALL Chicago Public Schools (CPS) teachers, most of whom likely never even mention Shakur's name in the classroom


My main point is still that you made widely speculative statements and stretched arguments about the case and CTU statement:
"These are the radical leftists teaching our children. This is a big part of why we now see kids rioting against law & order, assaulting anyone who doesn't agree with their radical views, burning cities, fighting with cops, and murdering those who oppose them."

What a stretch, I don't even know how to respond - There is no logic here -- Just your emotion and desire to have this story fit your conservative narrative that the woke left is contaminating our society... Ridiculous

Did you not read my reply to you where I said that I read the entire Wikipedia article? All you did here was just present that article again. It is VERY biased and supportive of her, not balanced, accurate, or even close to presenting the entire picture. You think she's the first criminal to say, "I'm innocent! Their case against me doesn't add up!" She wasn't some innocent woman in the wrong place at the wrong time. She was eventually the de facto head of the BLA, or at worst one of its primary planners and leaders. She helped plan and carry out multiple acts of violence, bank robberies, and targeted executions of police officers as acts of revolt and terrorism. She destroyed lives and families. She wasn't a good person or honorable. She was a murderous, terrorist, POS.

 

[NDWarrior]

We'll agree to disagree: "She helped plan and carry out multiple acts of violence, bank robberies, and targeted executions of police officers as acts of revolt and terrorism." It's simply not proven, there's just the one (major) conviction which is suspect.

And your woke left / students grow up to be murdering terrorists is specious

 

[LifelongFan]

Bishop's daddy was probably in the Emmitt Till lynchmob. What he thinks about a wrongfully convicted black woman doesn't matter.

 

[Fbolt]

When I was wrongly imprisoned, all my cellmates during those 8 years claimed to be innocent as well.

 

[RDU Irish]

Stop judging people by the content of their character and accept the whitey had it coming, Bish.

 

[Bishop2b5]

We'll agree to disagree: "She helped plan and carry out multiple acts of violence, bank robberies, and targeted executions of police officers as acts of revolt and terrorism." It's simply not proven, there's just the one (major) conviction which is suspect.

And your woke left / student grow up to be murdering terrorists is specious

What makes you people on the left almost ALWAYS defend the terrorist, the murderer, the criminal, the pervert, the weirdo, the violent rioter, the person doing all they can to destroy or damage society? I think I understand why, but I'd like to hear yours and others' explanation for it.

 

[Bishop2b5]

Stop judging people by the content of their character and accept the whitey had it coming, Bish.

 

[Bishop2b5]

Bishop's daddy was probably in the Emmitt Till lynchmob. What he thinks about a wrongfully convicted black woman doesn't matter.

You add so much depth and insight to the conversations. We're blessed to have you with us. Go on, tell us more. I'm sure we'll all benefit from your brilliance. Let's hear it.

 

[NDWarrior]

What makes you people on the left almost ALWAYS defend the terrorist, the murderer, the criminal, the pervert, the weirdo, the violent rioter, the person doing all they can to destroy or damage society? I think I understand why, but I'd like to hear yours and others' explanation for it.

You All-American, Apple Pie, white conservative men, all with great professional jobs or awesome business ventures, I'm sure!

We can see you coming from a mile away and you're as easy as Hell to read:

What makes you people on the left almost ALWAYS defend the terrorist, the murderer, the criminal, the pervert, the weirdo, the violent rioter, the person doing all they can to destroy or damage society?

Now, I'm not making fun of your values - what are we without our values? What's amazing is that your hard wired so conservatively as to not rock the boat, cause any trouble, go against the going narrative and people in power (at least when it's the conservatives in power), and you can't even fathom any differing opinion or position that does not align with your MAGA conservative worldview or groupthink.

You address me and anyone that doesn't agree with you on here as if we're all one unified group of people who are brainwashed to overthrow "your government," violate your All-American values, raid your homes and violently murder your family, and steal your property -- The Leftist Lunatics who are "The Enemy from within!"

Have you no intellect to understand there are different positions and opinions for topics and discussions, and different viewpoints and interpretations of events?

Everything is black and white, for or against us, through your Red, White and Blue colored MAGA glasses.

Live by your values, but try and be open to other viewpoints because tolerance of race, religion, and beliefs are what actually Make America Great Already!

 

[Bishop2b5]

You All-American, Apple Pie, white conservative men, all with great professional jobs or awesome business ventures, I'm sure!

We can see you coming from a mile away and you're as easy as Hell to read:

What makes you people on the left almost ALWAYS defend the terrorist, the murderer, the criminal, the pervert, the weirdo, the violent rioter, the person doing all they can to destroy or damage society?

Now, I'm not making fun of your values - what are we without our values? What's amazing is that your hard wired so conservatively as to not rock the boat, cause any trouble, go against the going narrative and people in power (at least when it's the conservatives in power), and you can't even fathom any differing opinion or position that does not align with your MAGA conservative worldview or groupthink.

You address me and anyone that doesn't agree with you on here as if we're all one unified group of people who are brainwashed to overthrow "your government," violate your All-American values, raid your homes and violently murder your family, and steal your property -- The Leftist Lunatics who are "The Enemy from within!"

Have you no intellect to understand there are different positions and opinions for topics and discussions, and different viewpoints and interpretations of events?

Everything is black and white, for or against us, through your Red, White and Blue colored MAGA glasses.

Live by your values, but try and be open to other viewpoints because tolerance of race, religion, and beliefs are what actually Make America Great Already!

You did a fine job of not answering my question at all, but did do a nice rant about being bitter about those who have good values, work hard, make good decisions, and are successful. Somehow in your mind, that's a bad thing. I'm not surprised by that answer and that view of success. It's actually what I believe motivates many of you.

As for differing opinions and such, that's fine. No problem. What is a problem is differing values and approaches that clearly don't work. Don't call failing to value and get an education, poor decision making, poor family stability, consistently choosing immediate gratification over long term reward, spending foolishly, engaging in crime over hard work, thinking someone else's property should be yours, no respect for authority, and having a shitty attitude about everything are just "different and equally valid opinions." They aren't. They're the cause of failure and envy of others' success.

You might find that our All-American, Apple Pie, white conservative approach works exceedingly well for white, black, brown, male, female, and anyone else who wants to work hard, make good life choices, get an education, avoid criminal behavior, take responsibility for their own life and success, build a stable family, and consistently put long term reward ahead of immediate gratification. It certainly works better than shitting your life away with bad choices and behavior, and then being bitter and envious of those who succeed.

 

[NDWarrior]

You did a fine job of not answering my question at all, but did do a nice rant about being bitter about those who have good values, work hard, make good decisions, and are successful. Somehow in your mind, that's a bad thing. I'm not surprised by that answer and that view of success. It's actually what I believe motivates many of you.

You misinterpreted my comments. Not a bad thing at all. I was just listing out nice middle class that not all can attain because we have an imperfect society. Not bitter or jealous all. What frustrates and angers me is that you can't get your head out of our lily white ass to understand that America is not just for a (fading) middle class citizens and White Christians (some of you National Christians). Other folks aspire to the American Dream, and despite their best efforts, they can't there, and it's especially hard with the current administration in power. Enough said.

As for differing opinions and such, that's fine. No problem. What is a problem is differing values and approaches that clearly don't work. Don't call failing to value and get an education, poor decision making, poor family stability, consistently choosing immediate gratification over long term reward, spending foolishly, engaging in crime over hard work, thinking someone else's property should be yours, no respect for authority, and having a shitty attitude about everything are just "different and equally valid opinions." They aren't. They're the cause of failure and envy of others' success.

Man, are you arrogant. What is a problem is differing values and approaches that clearly don't work. So if you don't exactly follow white middle class and Christian ideas, your done in this country? Of course, we need law and order and do things like allow immigration carefully and in a vetted manner. But there's a perfect example. Folks (even legal residents) are trying to work hard and get ahead for themselves and their children, and they are met with ICE thugs and being jailed in big corporate prisons - These people aren't trying to break the law or foment insurrection, just the opposite, keeping to themselves. It's like you are there but you don't want any immigrants to get ahead. Well, that's the American way and dream and it fuels this country the rich history and innovation of this country.

You might find that our All-American, Apple Pie, white conservative approach works exceedingly well for white, black, brown, male, female, and anyone else who wants to work hard, make good life choices, get an education, avoid criminal behavior, take responsibility for their own life and success, build a stable family, and consistently put long term reward ahead of immediate gratification. It certainly works better than shitting your life away with bad choices and behavior, and then being bitter and envious of those who succeed.

See above. It's not happening for brown folks who are doing just that. And cutting programs like early Child support and services (like the BBTB did) like school breakfast and lunch for poor kids, especially African Americans in inner cities isn't helping.
.
Hey listen, I may think more progressively on some things, but I still believe we need law and order and a strong Democracy with protected and fair voting rights. And equal opportunity for all.

The current administration is destroying all that even if you can't see that.

 

[Bishop2b5]

You misinterpreted my comments. Not a bad thing at all. I was just listing out nice middle class that not all can attain because we have an imperfect society. Not bitter or jealous all. What frustrates and angers me is that you can't get your head out of our lily white ass to understand that America is not just for a (fading) middle class citizens and White Christians (some of you National Christians). Other folks aspire to the American Dream, and despite their best efforts, they can't there, and it's especially hard with the current administration in power. Enough said.

Nonsense. The world isn't perfect and no approach will work 100% of the time, but the values and attitude and path to success I advocate for has proven time and again to work better than anything else by a long shot, and it works just fine for the vast majority who follow it, regardless of their race, original socio-economic status, or anything else. It's what has allowed millions of poor people, immigrants, and anyone else to escape poverty and achieve a much better life. There's even a name for it: The Success Sequence.

If you see someone with reasonable mental and physical health not achieving that, then there's an enormous likelihood that they ARE NOT following all the steps to success. They've made and are likely still doing at least one of the following: making poor life choices, spending foolishly, burying themselves with children they're not socially or financially able to care for adequately, failing to get as much education as possible, engaging in criminal activity, or failing to improve their work history and marketable job skills with every job they have.

Stop trying to turn this into some uppity middle class whites only thing. It's far from it. It works for virtually everyone who follows the tried-and-true methods and puts in the effort. I often tell my youngest daughter that there's a right way to do things. It's not the right way because it's how I want it to be done. It's the right way because it's what works. Same here. If you don't agree, show me what has worked better at raising people out of poverty and building stable lives and socio-economic status.

Man, are you arrogant. What is a problem is differing values and approaches that clearly don't work. So if you don't exactly follow white middle class and Christian ideas, your done in this country? Of course, we need law and order and do things like allow immigration carefully and in a vetted manner. But there's a perfect example. Folks (even legal residents) are trying to work hard and get ahead for themselves and their children, and they are met with ICE thugs and being jailed in big corporate prisons - These people aren't trying to break the law or foment insurrection, just the opposite, keeping to themselves. It's like you are there but you don't want any immigrants to get ahead. Well, that's the American way and dream and it fuels this country the rich history and innovation of this country.

Nothing arrogant about pointing out what works. Again, show me an approach that has worked better?

Legal residents don't have to worry about ICE. As for the others trying to get ahead, they came here illegally against our immigration laws. None of us are against legal immigrants. Our ancestors came here as immigrants. Legal ones. Don't try to act like there's no difference. Remember the part above in the Succes Sequence about not engaging in criminal activity? Starting your life here by breaking the law is not part of that path to success.

See above. It's not happening for brown folks who are doing just that. And cutting programs like early Child support and services (like the BBTB did) like school breakfast and lunch for poor kids, especially African Americans in inner cities isn't helping.
.
Hey listen, I may think more progressively on some things, but I still believe we need law and order and a strong Democracy with protected and fair voting rights. And equal opportunity for all.

The current administration is destroying all that even if you can't see that.

I'm actually in favor of school lunches and breakfasts. I'm all for everyone having an opportunity to succeed. I'm very much in favor of people doing the things it takes to succeed instead of ignoring what has proven to work and then complaining that life isn't fair and they can't get ahead. It's a little disingenuous and deluded to make one poor life choice after another and avoid every speck of advice from those who've climbed out of poverty, and then claim the world is keeping you down.

 

[SportsingHard]

When I was wrongly imprisoned, all my cellmates during those 8 years claimed to be innocent as well.

What were you imprisoned for, and how'd they get it wrong?

 

[RDU Irish]

Cycle of poverty has little to do with race and everything to do with choices and attitude.

 

[SeekNDestroy]

What makes you people on the left almost ALWAYS defend the terrorist, the murderer, the criminal, the pervert, the weirdo, the violent rioter, the person doing all they can to destroy or damage society? I think I understand why, but I'd like to hear yours and others' explanation for it.

Nobody’s defending you.

 

[SeekNDestroy]

When I was wrongly imprisoned, all my cellmates during those 8 years claimed to be innocent as well.

Woah. What?

 

[TorontoGold]

The Success Sequence is essentially The Secret. Just wish cast being successful and you'll be successful!

It's so stupid I was surprised it wasn't from a Democrat like Schumer or Pelosi.

 

[Bishop2b5]

Chicago Mayor Johnson Praises ‘Important’ Woman Who Killed New Jersey State Trooper​

MSN

Democrats never met a murderer, terrorist, criminal, drug addict, rioter, or weirdo they won't praise and defend.

 

[Bishop2b5]

The Success Sequence is essentially The Secret. Just wish cast being successful and you'll be successful!

It's so stupid I was surprised it wasn't from a Democrat like Schumer or Pelosi.

Take a day off from being petty and stupid and misrepresenting what everyone else says. You've earned the break.

There's nothing about just wishing to be successful and you will be. That's you with yet another strawman response. It's about actively making good choices, doing the right thing, working hard, and following a proven plan that has worked better than anything else to raise people out of poverty.

 

[TorontoGold]

Take a day off from being petty and stupid and misrepresenting what everyone else says. You've earned the break.

There's nothing about just wishing to be successful and you will be. That's you with yet another strawman response. It's about actively making good choices, doing the right thing, working hard, and following a proven plan that has worked better than anything else to raise people out of poverty.

Give your master plan to two people. Start one in poverty and start one in the middle class. The room for growth is exponentially higher for the middle class person. To argue otherwise is ridiculous.

 

[Bishop2b5]

@TorontoGold Since you think my thought

Give your master plan to two people. Start one in poverty and start one in the middle class. The room for growth is exponentially higher for the middle class person. To argue otherwise is ridiculous.

The room for growth is obviously NOT higher for the middle class person (if they're at level 5 and the poor person is at level 1, the poor person has more room to grow), but I know what you actually meant. The middle class person has a head start, his path to wealth and stability are easier. Of course. Nobody believes otherwise. That's not the point, though. The point is what works best for the poor person to get there. To say, "Well, the middle class person has a big advantage so I shouldn't even try" is unhelpful to him. That's a guaranteed lifetime of staying poor. So what WILL work or has the best chance of working for the vast majority? What I advocate for, what is often referred to as the Success Sequence. It's what has raised millions of poor people, immigrants who came here with nothing, and other people wanting to better their situation.

If you don't agree, that's your problem, but show us what you think works better. How do you think poor people or those starting with little or nothing are more likely to improve their lives and reach a better socio-economic station?

 

[NDWarrior]

Give your master plan to two people. Start one in poverty and start one in the middle class. The room for growth is exponentially higher for the middle class person. To argue otherwise is ridiculous.

Right, I understand the values and behaviors of the Success Sequence, and of course they'll be challenges and bumps along the way; there needs to be a better foundation and concerted effort for the tide to lift all boats.

The problem is that with this admin, it's fuck you, sink all you poor motherfuckers, there are only so many lifeboats, and I'm saving those for all my rich and successful friends.

I'm not talking socialism either; I'm talking about support for people to get work hard and get ahead.

Unfortunately, what's going to happen is what always happens when the rubber band of inequality gets way too stretched... It snaps in the form of a major and long-term financial crisis and you can bet that we'll be seeing that start by Q1 next year.

 

[RDU Irish]

Victim mentality is something else. Especially special to pretend big daddy gubmint is the one keeping you down.

 

[NDWarrior]

Victim mentality is something else. Especially special to pretend big daddy gubmint is the one keeping you down.

You chaps are funny, I'm not playing the victim... I'm looking at it from a much larger macro and government standpoint, and the current trending economic factors along with a Crony Capitalism Prez and admin that is not supportive of greater success for all, but instead is reinforcing the current extreme inequality in a very blatant fuck you way.

It won't end well... It never does in these scenarios.

 

[RDU Irish]

You chaps are funny, I'm not playing the victim... I'm looking at it from a much larger macro and government standpoint, and the current trending economic factors along with a Crony Capitalism Prez and admin that is not supportive of greater success for all, but instead is reinforcing the current extreme inequality in a very blatant fuck you way.

It won't end well... It never does in these scenarios.

Sorry - that is how you come across. Now you come across as an Antifa nut threatening "won't end well" if your peeps don't get free shit. Rather than worrying about inequality - worry about showing up to work on time and sober.

 

[Bishop2b5]

You chaps are funny, I'm not playing the victim... I'm looking at it from a much larger macro and government standpoint, and the current trending economic factors along with a Crony Capitalism Prez and admin that is not supportive of greater success for all, but instead is reinforcing the current extreme inequality in a very blatant fuck you way.

It won't end well... It never does in these scenarios.

The poor of this country are given free education, often free housing and food, free transportation in many cases, and free medical care, and a world that tells them in every imaginable way how to stop being poor, how to succeed, how to permanently escape poverty. And yet, they won't, or don't, or can't. WTF else do you want? You can lead a horse to water, as the saying goes. They watch others in their neighborhoods, their family, their circle of friends do what it takes to escape and better their lives, yet they refuse to put the same effort in and do the very things they've been told will better their lives and that they've seen work for people they know. You can't force people to do what it takes to succeed. We've thrown trillions of dollars at the poor over the past 60+ years with little to no overall betterment of their condition - and in some aspects, such as family stability and having two parent homes, there's been a dramatic worsening of their situation. Nobody is holding them back and reinforcing their inequality but themselves.

"Yeah, I didn't pay attention in school. I just sat in the back and made fun of them stoopid nerds and all their sucking up to the teacher and book learning shit. Homework is for losers. I had friends to hang out with and video games to play. Ain't my fault I had four kids by 3 different baby mamas/daddies by 17. I can't get a job. My first job my boss was all 'Got time to lean, got time to clean' and always griping at me for being late and not doing shit. I ain't got time to listen to all that. Last job I got fired for stealing. I needed some stuff. Now I can't get a job because I got busted selling weed and shoplifting. It ain't my fault nobody will give me a chance. I'm broke and that ain't right. After I paid for my car stereo and rims and new iphone and $200 sneakers, I had to have money to live on, so I did what I had to do. Look at all those fools saving their money, studying, working hard. The reason I'm poor and can't get ahead is that the man is keeping me down. Nobody ever gave me a chance. It's the system holding me back."

Yeah. Uh-huh.

 

[TorontoGold]

@TorontoGold Since you think my thought

The room for growth is obviously NOT higher for the middle class person (if they're at level 5 and the poor person is at level 1, the poor person has more room to grow), but I know what you actually meant. The middle class person has a head start, his path to wealth and stability are easier. Of course. Nobody believes otherwise. That's not the point, though. The point is what works best for the poor person to get there. To say, "Well, the middle class person has a big advantage so I shouldn't even try" is unhelpful to him. That's a guaranteed lifetime of staying poor. So what WILL work or has the best chance of working for the vast majority? What I advocate for, what is often referred to as the Success Sequence. It's what has raised millions of poor people, immigrants who came here with nothing, and other people wanting to better their situation.

If you don't agree, that's your problem, but show us what you think works better. How do you think poor people or those starting with little or nothing are more likely to improve their lives and reach a better socio-economic station?

No, the room for growth is higher for the middle class person. Plenty of studies support this. There was a study done on university attendance if they lowered costs in Quebec. The study found that demographic makeup of the kids attending was almost identical to when the cost was higher. If you are middle class your peers will likely go to post secondary and you will too. For those who are lower class it's not a thought or consideration because they have more immediate needs and less likely to have exposure to things like loans/credit scores etc.

Mindset is important, but you can't just tell someone who's been an outcast from society to just "want it more". They obviously don't want to live in poverty and their habits are coping mechanisms with their situation.

Plenty of other tried and true strategies around the world. Look at the school systems in Germany/New Zealand. Education takes care of most socio-economic issues; better peer group, more educated, higher paying job etc.

 

[calvegas04]

 

[NDWarrior]

Sorry - that is how you come across. Now you come across as an Antifa nut threatening "won't end well" if your peeps don't get free shit. Rather than worrying about inequality - worry about showing up to work on time and sober.

That's cute... That's not what I meant. I meant the stock market is going to tank and everyone will feel the pain (of course, the rich for the most part, will be ok).

You have to remember: 1) A lot of companies depend on a healthy economy which means we need a healthy consumer; 2) financial markets are based on levels of mass optimism and mass pessimism on a societal level, and when it turns and everyone turns inward and turns off (or literally has none) their spending power, the markets and economy tank. And right now, Trump and this admin are helping that right along, i.e., they're brining on the mass pessimism for a lot of folks with their cuts, tariffs, and lack of plans to increase hiring (as seen by the job numbers). Be prepared...

 

[GATTACA!]

Adults are in charge.