Politics

[GATTACA!]

So you are excusing people’s lack of effort and annoyance in regard to voting in an election but tell me my response to your comment for the very same reason is embarrassing… you see what kind of hole you are digging yourself in? Not getting an ID is embarrassing.

I'm not excusing I'm explaining. If you targeted any demographic with extra steps in the process it's common sense that some portion aren't going to follow through.

I've made 5 posts now on this topic and for some reason you all keep ignoring the fact that there is zero evidence of this supposed illegal voting.

 

[Irish#1]

By being able to obtain and use a government ID is a good start.

I’ll take common sense over a degree any day. A degree doesn’t equate intelligence. It does equate into a person seemingly more intelligent in their area of their degree.

 

[Irish#1]

It's not an intelligence issue. It's an effort and annoyance issue.

You're basically asking these people to make another trip to the DMV. Unsurprisingly some portion aren't going to do it. Either because they don't have time, can't get out of work to go do it, don't remember to go in time, or simply don't feel like it.

.

What you described is pretty much apathy toward our election process.

 

[GATTACA!]

What you described is pretty much apathy toward our election process.

I don't really think so. 2020 was the highest voter turnout since 1900.

US Elections Project - national-1789-present

National General Election VEP Turnout Rates, 1789-Present National general election voting-eligible population turnout rates for presidential and midterm elections are plotted below, along with the raw data provided in an accompanying spreadsheet. These numbers are taken from Vital Statistics of

www.electproject.org

I think it's just the nature of how many people operate. How many people file their taxes late? Blow off doctor appointments? Canceling that subscription we don't use and have been meaning to stop paying for months ago? These are all much more personally impactful than voting and people still blow all of those off too.

And if there was ANY evidence that illegal people were voting in our elections then I'd agree this is a necessary evil, but there isn't. The only handful of examples of voter fraud have all been GOP voters recently. But I'm not going to be pounding the table for some sort of reform to eliminate those edge cases because the juice isn't worth the squeeze. Voting is a basic right and we should be doing everything we can to make sure it's as accessible and easy as can be.

 

[ulukinatme]

I love when I see liberals touting the educated shtick. Nevermind that only 37% of the 25+ in this country have college level degrees, almost 2/3 of the people are stupid by that standard. It wasn't until the last decade or two that liberals overtook conservatives in that area, and when you consider the 37% figure you're talking about a smaller fraction of the whole. As others have pointed out, a piece of paper has never been a great indicator of intelligence. It's often a mark of financial ability or opportunity. It's certainly a nice feather in the cap, but the way some liberals use the figure you'd think they were the collective intellectuals up against nothing but the unwashed masses. In reality it's just a percent advantage among the 37% of total college educated adults.

 

[Irish#1]

I don't really think so. 2020 was the highest voter turnout since 1900.

US Elections Project - national-1789-present

National General Election VEP Turnout Rates, 1789-Present National general election voting-eligible population turnout rates for presidential and midterm elections are plotted below, along with the raw data provided in an accompanying spreadsheet. These numbers are taken from Vital Statistics of

www.electproject.org

I think it's just the nature of how many people operate. How many people file their taxes late? Blow off doctor appointments? Canceling that subscription we don't use and have been meaning to stop paying for months ago? These are all much more personally impactful than voting and people still blow all of those off too.

And if there was ANY evidence that illegal people were voting in our elections then I'd agree this is a necessary evil, but there isn't. The only handful of examples of voter fraud have all been GOP voters recently. But I'm not going to be pounding the table for some sort of reform to eliminate those edge cases because the juice isn't worth the squeeze. Voting is a basic right and we should be doing everything we can to make sure it's as accessible and easy as can be.

I'm talking specifically about those that might not have the proper ID. They're not really interested in taking the time to get one. Having the largest turnout in 2020 also counters the complaints about it being too difficult to get an ID or polling stations were moved to far away.

 

[Blazers46]

I'm not excusing I'm explaining. If you targeted any demographic with extra steps in the process it's common sense that some portion aren't going to follow through.

I've made 5 posts now on this topic and for some reason you all keep ignoring the fact that there is zero evidence of this supposed illegal voting.

I forget, your party caters to the lazy and the incompetent. This is where we just wont simply agree.

The convo was essentially about making voter ID free. You and Toronto have tried to give it more legs than it had…. We are back to minorities can’t do hard or extra things.

 

[Polish Leppy 22]

lmao because dumb hillbilly's are part of my family. I'm not punching down on people I don't understand. I know them perfectly well.

Believe it or not, I do care about my friends and family in ARI/GA/TEX/NY. But, yeah I do care about being right.



Rely? As opposed to just throwing out baseless claims? Would it have been stronger to just say "Dems are pussys and stupid"? No? Ok.

Education is not a perfect indicator of intelligence but is better than....nothing. How would you measure intelligence?

Whatever Blazers said, I didn't say it so take it up with him and don't try to pull off your statement.

To your question, I would likely defer to Howard Gardner's theory on multiple intelligence. But insinuating that more college grads vote blue and assuming they're smarter because of a degree is pure dogshit.

 

[TorontoGold]

I forget, your party caters to the lazy and the incompetent. This is where we just wont simply agree.

The convo was essentially about making voter ID free. You and Toronto have tried to give it more legs than it had…. We are back to minorities can’t do hard or extra things.

It's not that they can't - it's that they have less flexibility in their days to go wait in line at a government center to get an appropriate ID.

It's behavioral economics - if a person is working 14 hours a day, taking the chance that the DMV is going to take longer than the time they allocated for it they will tend to not do it.

Exact same principle as to why the older you are the more likely you are to vote in an election. It's not because they "care more" or "voting is hard" but because they have more spare utility to spend on voting that working class people do not.

Whatever Blazers said, I didn't say it so take it up with him and don't try to pull off your statement.

To your question, I would likely defer to Howard Gardner's theory on multiple intelligence. But insinuating that more college grads vote blue and assuming they're smarter because of a degree is pure dogshit.

So you're just taking issue with my response because of prior disagreements, not that you agree with Blazers, just that I'm wrong.

It is the best measure of intelligence that's available given available information. I am more than open to another measure, but you and Blazers aren't offering any measurable alternatives. I would agree with you that Howard Gardner's theory is a much better measure but I can't find any data to say that Dems/Repubs score better on that than the other. Which brings us back to the point that Blazers point is one made on emotion and vibez.

 

[Blazers46]

It's not that they can't - it's that they have less flexibility in their days to go wait in line at a government center to get an appropriate ID.

It's behavioral economics - if a person is working 14 hours a day, taking the chance that the DMV is going to take longer than the time they allocated for it they will tend to not do it.

Exact same principle as to why the older you are the more likely you are to vote in an election. It's not because they "care more" or "voting is hard" but because they have more spare utility to spend on voting that working class people do not.

Find me a person that works 14 hours per day that doesn’t have an ID, please! You have to have an ID to even have that 14 hours day job or jobs. The most common profile for a person without an ID isn’t going to be a working person.

 

[Blazers46]

So you're just taking issue with my response because of prior disagreements, not that you agree with Blazers, just that I'm wrong.

It is the best measure of intelligence that's available given available information. I am more than open to another measure, but you and Blazers aren't offering any measurable alternatives. I would agree with you that Howard Gardner's theory is a much better measure but I can't find any data to say that Dems/Repubs score better on that than the other. Which brings us back to the point that Blazers point is one made on emotion and vibez.

This is exactly your problem. My response to people being dumb was in response to someone saying they don’t know how to obtain or use an ID. Now we have to appease Toronto and you even provide links about education stats. You have zero interest in the context of an argument and ramble like someone with dementia. Who cares about education stats, intelligence… and all the other shit you want to argue. You are the party that thinks voter ID is bad because it’s too hard, Full stop.

You trying to prove democrats are more educated or smarter just destroys your whole argument. The smart party can’t figure out how to get IDs or use them.

 

[TorontoGold]

This is exactly your problem. My response to people being dumb was in response to someone saying they don’t know how to obtain or use an ID. Now we have to appease Toronto and you even provide links about education stats. You have zero interest in the context of an argument and ramble like someone with dementia. Who cares about education stats, intelligence… and all the other shit you want to argue. You are the party that thinks voter ID is bad because it’s too hard, Full stop.

You trying to prove democrats are more educated or smarter just destroys your whole argument. The smart party can’t figure out how to get IDs or use them.

YOU! You said democrats are the party of pussys and stupid people! I honestly did not expect Dems to have a more educated voting base.

Context? Gattaca/I have literally provided you with multiple reasons and support. Behavioral economic theory supports our position. You don't want to engage on that because it's one or a combination of the following - 1) You're not comfortable discussing behavioral economics or empirical evidence of what voting restrictions mean 2) You know that your position isn't based in anything other than vibez 3) You just want to just disagree.

The smart party won the popular vote every year since 08, the dumb party thinks election fraud is rampant but can't actually find any evidence to support that and wants to have the ballot stuffing boogeyman because instead of appealing to a wider base they just want to shrink the voting base.

 

[Blazers46]

YOU! You said democrats are the party of pussys and stupid people! I honestly did not expect Dems to have a more educated voting base.

Context? Gattaca/I have literally provided you with multiple reasons and support. Behavioral economic theory supports our position. You don't want to engage on that because it's one or a combination of the following - 1) You're not comfortable discussing behavioral economics or empirical evidence of what voting restrictions mean 2) You know that your position isn't based in anything other than vibez 3) You just want to just disagree.

The smart party won the popular vote every year since 08, the dumb party thinks election fraud is rampant but can't actually find any evidence to support that and wants to have the ballot stuffing boogeyman because instead of appealing to a wider base they just want to shrink the voting base.

Lol, I bet you are the guy that when arguing or even a playful conversation your girlfriend and she calls you stupid… you text her pictures of your wall of fame at home that you surely have.

Do you truly think I care about what party is smarter or more educated? No but it’s obviously triggered you. My comment was basically in response to IDs being too hard. You are a waste of energy.

 

[drayer54]

Conveniently timed...

 

[GATTACA!]

I'm talking specifically about those that might not have the proper ID. They're not really interested in taking the time to get one. Having the largest turnout in 2020 also counters the complaints about it being too difficult to get an ID or polling stations were moved to far away.

We were talking about voter ID becoming federally mandated for all of the states that don't require it already. Hence the discussion about free ID's needing to be federally mandated too because of the 24th amendment.

 

[Blazers46]

Conveniently timed...

Defying behavioral economics one ID at a time.

 

[GATTACA!]

I forget, your party caters to the lazy and the incompetent. This is where we just wont simply agree.

The convo was essentially about making voter ID free. You and Toronto have tried to give it more legs than it had…. We are back to minorities can’t do hard or extra things.

What is the point of continuing to respond if you refuse to address any of the points I've made?

 

[Sea Turtle]

I thought that employers were required by law to give you an opportunity to vote on election day?

 

[ab2cmiller]

Article is a couple of years old, but lists the requirements by state

A state-by-state guide to where you're guaranteed paid time off for voting—and where you aren't

Federal law does not require employers to give employees any time off to vote, much less paid time off. Instead, the laws vary from state to state.

www.cnbc.com

 

[Sea Turtle]

Article is a couple of years old, but lists the requirements by state

A state-by-state guide to where you're guaranteed paid time off for voting—and where you aren't

Federal law does not require employers to give employees any time off to vote, much less paid time off. Instead, the laws vary from state to state.

www.cnbc.com

Only 29 huh. That's not good. Everyone should be given time to vote. Especially if your shift covers most of voting hours.

 

[ab2cmiller]

Onl 29 huh. That's not good. Everyone should be given time to vote. Especially if your shift covers most of voting hours.

Most states offer various opportunities to vote early.

 

[Sea Turtle]

Most states offer various opportunities to vote early.

That's true. I guess if you do want to vote, you will figure it out.

 

[Blazers46]

That's true. I guess if you do want to vote, you will figure it out.

And that is all I am trying to say.

 

[ab2cmiller]

A former co-worker of mine told the story of how he was a couple years out of college and was with a friend of his and the friend's father. Evidently it was around the time of a voting period. Anyhow, the Father of the friend asked my co-worker if he voted. My co-worker gave some excuse about being too busy or something. Well the Father was ex-military and stared straight at him and without blinking said something along the lines of ..... people have fought and died to ensure that you have your current freedoms, including the ability to vote your conscience in free elections, but I guess you can put your own price on that ....... My co-worker said he's never missed an opportunity to vote after that.

 

[TorontoGold]

Lol, I bet you are the guy that when arguing or even a playful conversation your girlfriend and she calls you stupid… you text her pictures of your wall of fame at home that you surely have.

Do you truly think I care about what party is smarter or more educated? No but it’s obviously triggered you. My comment was basically in response to IDs being too hard. You are a waste of energy.

lol self projection much?

Yes, I am the triggered one here. Not the guy getting in his feels after being proven wrong. Nobody said they're too hard LOL. Actually spend the time to read what Gattaca posted because he's more measured than I am. You won't because you'd rather continue to be pissy with me. The traditional life cycle of a typical blazers discussion;

1) Non-Toronto poster responds
2) Blazer gets emotional and makes a provably dumb comment
3) When confronted with a thought out response from non-Toronto poster will say something like "I'm lazy won't read" or "I'm way too busy with my very serious work!"
4) Will start spiraling into some discussion with me (Toronto) about his dumb comment without addressing non-Toronto posters comments.
5) Shown empirical evidence and academic theory on why he is wrong......will then turn to "Haha Toronto is a bad guy because argument!"
6) Will then make comments using what he just learned in snide ways to other posters "haha this could all be fixed with school lunches" "Behavioral economics!"
7) Rinse repeat.

 

[Blazers46]

lol self projection much?

Yes, I am the triggered one here. Not the guy getting in his feels after being proven wrong. Nobody said they're too hard LOL. Actually spend the time to read what Gattaca posted because he's more measured than I am. You won't because you'd rather continue to be pissy with me. The traditional life cycle of a typical blazers discussion;

1) Non-Toronto poster responds
2) Blazer gets emotional and makes a provably dumb comment
3) When confronted with a thought out response from non-Toronto poster will say something like "I'm lazy won't read" or "I'm way too busy with my very serious work!"
4) Will start spiraling into some discussion with me (Toronto) about his dumb comment without addressing non-Toronto posters comments.
5) Shown empirical evidence and academic theory on why he is wrong......will then turn to "Haha Toronto is a bad guy because argument!"
6) Will then make comments using what he just learned in snide ways to other posters "haha this could all be fixed with school lunches" "Behavioral economics!"
7) Rinse repeat.

You have waaaay too much time on your hands.

 

[TorontoGold]

You have waaaay too much time on your hands.

Read post #28,109. Tell me more about too much time.

 

[Blazers46]

Read post #28,109. Tell me more about too much time.

Read… and you still do.

 

[GATTACA!]

“Another trip”, maybe but not really. If people do not have a drivers license they have probably never been. If they lost or had it stolen most states allow you to get another online. In the event they need to go into an office to get an ID, like ABC eluded to… we are in a country that has been fought and died for… get a damn ID. Inconvenience is laughable. Incompetence shouldn’t really be tolerated or catered to. A lot of reasons aren’t really good enough.

I was just using the DMV as a pejorative for an annoying task. No one wants to go sit in the DMV or go to the post office to get a state ID.

Have you never had to go to the DMV? Idk what else you could classify it as other than an inconvenience.

Suppressed because they don’t feel like getting an ID? Again… voting is important and adding a step is infringing their right to vote? You guys are starting to sound like the NRA.

An unnecessary step. Any restriction you impose is going to lower the number of people who vote. So the question becomes, is whatever imposition you're trying to enact worth the security to adds to the election process? In this case with no evidence of ANY illegals casting illegitimate votes I would say no.

This might be a surprise and I don’t really brag or talk about it but I work in counterintelligence for the DOD. We do tons of investigations. We talk to a ton of people and we weigh certain testimony more than others. One day someone with a bright idea said, these are pretty big decisions we are making and we making them based on testimony for a large part, are we verifying who these people are? Since then we have obtained ID for anyone we talk to. Someone asked the question why are we capturing ID now? Have people not been who they say they are… the answer will always be, who the fuck knows? So that’s my answer, who knows? It’s impossible to know. Stop carding for alcohol and tobacco, stop carding for everything. Then go back and try to prove if someone at Louie and Kelly’s purchased alcohol when shouldn’t have. There is no “proof” because there is no means to prove it.

This is a very long winded way of admitting you have no evidence of any illegals voting. Just because you feel like it must be happening doesn't mean it is. And without 1 single case of it having happened, it obviously isn't.

Welcome to politics, nothing new here.


I was born into poverty. I lived in the ghetto for 18 years. I had no heat, no hot water and really no running water except for one bath tub. I had to heat a bucket of water to clean myself. No phone, no Internet. I got my ass kicked for the being the white kid in the neighborhood. My garage was burned down because the dude in the projects I lived by wanted us white folk out of his neighborhood. But my best friends were from this neighborhood, my mom’s best friend was a hooker. I grew up with brown, yellow and all sort of other colors. I had sex with and eat at the tables of brown, yellow and all the colors. I’m still friends with some today. I know these people because I was one of these people. I know why they cant or don’t get an ID and it’s not because they are working 14 hours per day. Lol. Talking about some “behavioral economics”, lol. It’s stupid and lazy…. But Toronto has white hillbilly friends and family so he’s the expert on white hillbilly’s. Lol. You guys are a trip with your keyboard knowledge.

Ok? Sorry your childhood sucked?

Yeah some people are lazy. I don't know why that means you think that we should put an extra barrier in their way so that they have to earn it. If we had 10,000 illegals voting, if we had 1,000, hell if you could even point me to a single case I would understand. We don't

Is there any evidence of our elections being more secure in states that require voter ID vs those that don't? Georgia and Arizona both require ID yet those are two of the states Trump told his base were stolen in 2020? How?

 

[RDU Irish]

Voter turnout as the gold standard to measure the validity of the process.... I'm missing the word to describe matching this metric to this goal? Would 105% turnout be a success?