Politics

[TorontoGold]

In theory, yes. What we don't know, are the variables. How many more days/hours those people work? Do they drive by or close by the BMV where they could stop in between both jobs? Is the second job on weekends when the BMV is closed? Is the BMV open on Saturdays?

At a minimum though, would you accept that people who have multiple jobs are less likely to have the time available to go wait at the government agency to obtain the ID needed to vote?

This logic can be supported by voter turnout data. As you look at the voting turnout by age you see seniors vote at the highest rates, they typically have more free time than the age cohorts younger than them. So it would seem to make logical sense, that if someone is working multiple jobs they would be less likely to go obtain that ID.

 

[Blazers46]

No, I think without any evidence that our elections are being influenced by illegal votes there's no reason to add more steps to the process that will have a negative effect on ANY voters. If somethings not broke don't fix it.

If it’s not broke don’t fix it isn’t a rule I go by. Things can always be improved. That’s mediocre thinking.

You don't care because you think the group that would be impacted are lazy morons that should have to prove they care enough about voting to earn that right. You acknowledge that your desire to require ID's isn't based on any confirmed or even alleged fraud. You also acknowledged that there is no indication that states that already require voter are any "safer" than those that don't, and ignored the fact that the two biggest states Trump wined about being stolen already required voter ID.

You said they’re lazy, not me. I said they are stuoid because you guys keep saying people don’t have the capacity to obtain or use an ID. I don’t necessarily acknowledge, I just don’t necessarily care about those things in regard to the convo. All can be true and I still would want voter ID.

You're also okay with attacking mail in voters because "that's just politics".

I never said I was okay with it. Has little to do with the conversation and your grasping at straws and bringing up other things to try and prove a point that has nothing to do with voter ID. This is why I didn’t want to entertain this convo with you… it grows legs and then you guys think you’re entitled to my time and opinions about other matters like these. Stay on point.

I'm assuming it's just a coincidence that these restrictions you're either fine with or actively arguing in favor of just happen to overwhelmingly effect democratic voters.

Is it coincidence that every nation on the planet basically use voter ID? Is the whole world against the Democratic Party? We have the richest poor in the world.

 

[Irish#1]

At a minimum though, would you accept that people who have multiple jobs are less likely to have the time available to go wait at the government agency to obtain the ID needed to vote?

This logic can be supported by voter turnout data. As you look at the voting turnout by age you see seniors vote at the highest rates, they typically have more free time than the age cohorts younger than them. So it would seem to make logical sense, that if someone is working multiple jobs they would be less likely to go obtain that ID.

They would have less time, but I go back to what matters most and what's important to the individual. As I mentioned in a previous post, if a person really cares about voting, they will find the time to get the proper ID. It may be a major or minor inconvenience, but as the saying goes, "Where there's a will, there's a way".

 

[Blazers46]

At a minimum though, would you accept that people who have multiple jobs are less likely to have the time available to go wait at the government agency to obtain the ID needed to vote?

This logic can be supported by voter turnout data. As you look at the voting turnout by age you see seniors vote at the highest rates, they typically have more free time than the age cohorts younger than them. So it would seem to make logical sense, that if someone is working multiple jobs they would be less likely to go obtain that ID.

Causation doesn’t always mean correlation. Maybe old people just care more about the country. Old people work too as identified by one of the charts floating around somewhere in this convo. Some even have multiple jobs.

 

[GATTACA!]

If it’s not broke don’t fix it isn’t a rule I go by. Things can always be improved. That’s mediocre thinking.

Yes let's drop our zero cases of voter fraud down to.......*checks notes*.......zero! Hooray what an improvement.

You said they’re lazy, not me. I said they are stuoid because you guys keep saying people don’t have the capacity to obtain or use an ID. I don’t necessarily acknowledge, I just don’t necessarily care about those things in regard to the convo. All can be true and I still would want voter ID.

I said some people of all demographics are lazy. Some are too busy. Some don't really care about politics and aren't even going to realize they need to do something new to be able to vote until November 10th. So simply don't care enough and the extra work will dissuade them from voting.

There are a million reasons and they aren't unique to only people without IDs. If the building with the server that houses voter registration in Ohio caught on fire and everyone had to register to vote again there is absolutely zero percent chance my wife would remember to go register beforehand. My wife isn't a lazy piece of shit. She's busy with our little kid and work and not tuned into politics 24/7 like us losers.

I never said I was okay with it. Has little to do with the conversation and your grasping at straws and bringing up other things to try and prove a point that has nothing to do with voter ID. This is why I didn’t want to entertain this convo with you… it grows legs and then you guys think you’re entitled to my time and opinions about other matters like these. Stay on point.

It is relevant. It was asked what objections there are to voter ID and one of the big reasons for me is the continued attempts to make voting as difficult as possible by republicans. Voter ID, attacks on mail in voting, moving polling offices, people getting kicked off voting registries are all elements of this.

So when someone says they want to add another step in the voting process to solve something that isn't an issue it makes me take a step back and ask why they want to do that? Mail in ballots fall under that same umbrella.

Is it coincidence that every nation on the planet basically use voter ID? Is the whole world against the Democratic Party? We have the richest poor in the world.

First of all that's not even true

Second of all is that really a game you want to play? Almost every first world nation on the planet has universal healthcare. Almost every first world nation has stricter more common sense gun laws. Etc.

 

[Blazers46]

Yes let's drop our zero cases of voter fraud down to.......*checks notes*.......zero! Hooray what an improvement.

As far as you know. You can’t prove illegitimate votes if you don’t even verify at the door. You seem to arguing with yourself on this one. Again, no fucks given about the past… just looking for ways to improve the voting system and be proactive.

I said some people of all demographics are lazy. Some are too busy. Some don't really care about politics and aren't even going to realize they need to do something new to be able to vote until November 10th. So simply don't care enough and the extra work will dissuade them from voting.

Agreed that both parties and all demos are lazy. Enabling laziness is where we disagree. I guess the assumption is your party is more lazy? (This where Toronto gets triggered and provides links on party laziness using some irrelevant metric)

There are a million reasons and they aren't unique to only people without IDs. If the building with the server that houses voter registration in Ohio caught on fire and everyone had to register to vote again there is absolutely zero percent chance my wife would remember to go register beforehand. My wife isn't a lazy piece of shit. She's busy with our little kid and work and not tuned into politics 24/7 like us losers.

Not sure your point. I hope your wife is okay.

It is relevant. It was asked what objections there are to voter ID and one of the big reasons for me is the rights continued attempts to make voting as difficult as possible by republicans. Voter ID, attacks on mail in voting, moving polling offices, people getting kicked off voting registries are all elements of this.

Your link was about counting votes 4 days after the election or something like that. Not something I care about.

So when someone says they want to add another step in the voting process to solve something that isn't an issue it makes you take a step back and ask why they want to do that? Mail in ballots fall under that same umbrella.

You keep talking about adding things. You ever think about how mail in ballots have evolved? They became a thing so people at war could vote, sick people, those away for work… you should ask yourself why this evolved to this huge push by the Democratic Party. But you don’t care.

First of all that's not even true

This graph proves my point not yours. Lol. The blue is voter ID, red isn’t. Gray is countries that don’t vote. There isn’t a lot of red. Thanks for the graph.

Second of all is that really a game you want to play? Almost every first world nation on the planet has universal healthcare. Almost every first world nation has stricter more common sense gun laws. Etc.

It’s a game I am playing yes. Use this against me later when you want to bitch about healthcare and gun rights or perhaps voter ID, thanks for staying on point again. I too will remember this when you bitch about how other countries have universal healthcare or stricter gun laws. I will be sure to reply with “you want to play this game, what about voter ID”. Doing what other countries do is just providing thought to the discussion not a hill I’m willing to die on in regard to just doing it because other countries do it. I’m fine with just saying I want voter ID to sure up the process and make it better. I too will remember this when you bitch about how other countries have universal healthcare or stricter gun laws.

 

[TorontoGold]

They would have less time, but I go back to what matters most and what's important to the individual. As I mentioned in a previous post, if a person really cares about voting, they will find the time to get the proper ID. It may be a major or minor inconvenience, but as the saying goes, "Where there's a will, there's a way".

That's exactly my point. They have more important things to do than to register to get whatever ID now being required. Putting food on the table is more important than satisfying whatever new requirement is being pushed out. If someone has to worry about a number of things that someone else doesn't have to, they're going to prioritize those things before going to the DMV.

Adding extra steps does not change "fraud", because it's already at such a trivial level that improving it will not lead to anything meaningful except suppressing turnout.

Causation doesn’t always mean correlation. Maybe old people just care more about the country. Old people work too as identified by one of the charts floating around somewhere in this convo. Some even have multiple jobs.

It's correlation doesn't mean causation.

I would link a number of studies that show reasons as to why older people vote more. But what's the point. It's not because they "care more about the country".

 

[GATTACA!]

As far as you know. You can’t prove illegitimate votes if you don’t even verify at the door. You seem to arguing with yourself on this one. Again, no fucks given about the past… just looking for ways to improve the voting system and be proactive.

It's not my responsibility to prove a negative. You're the one that wants to change the status quo because of something you're claiming is happening but have no proof of. I gave you a list of every way I could think of that an illegal could vote and explained how none of them make sense. And if any are happening it's impossible that we wouldn't have heard about it a single time.

Agreed that both parties and all demos are lazy. Enabling laziness is where we disagree. I guess the assumption is your party is more lazy?

No the assumption is this change would target the lazy people disproportionately from one party because they happen to be the ones that don't have ID's. The lazy people that wouldn't go out of their way in Hickville West Virginia already have drivers licenses because driving isn't optional out in the country like it is in the middle of an urban area.

Your link was about counting votes 4 days after the election or something like that. Not something I care about.

Yes putting a cap on military, foreign, and otherwise uncounted mail in ballots. Trump railed against mail in votes and demonized them for years heading into the 2020 election and then is surprised and wants the rules changed when he predictably gets destroyed by that demographic.

You keep talking about adding things. You ever think about how mail in ballots have evolved? They became a thing so people at war could vote, sick people, those away for work… you should ask yourself why this evolved to this huge push by the Democratic Party. But you don’t care.

To make it easier for all of those groups to vote. Unless you show me some proof or reasoning why mail in ballots can't be trusted why would I care? 99% of the country can vote by mail for all I care.

 

[Blazers46]

I would link a number of studies that show reasons as to why older people vote more.

😂 😂 Of course you would. I do have to ask. Do you keep these links saved on flash drive? A folder somewhere? It’s just hilarious you have a link for every little thing. I would really hate to be you.

 

[Blazers46]

It's not my responsibility to prove a negative. You're the one that wants to change the status quo because of something you're claiming is happening but have no proof of. I gave you a list of every way I could think of that an illegal could vote and explained how none of them make sense. And if any are happening it's impossible that we wouldn't have heard about it a single time.

What am I claiming that is happening? I keep saying I want voter ID so it doesn’t happen in the future. If it eases your boner I’ll let you claim voter fraud is 0% and concede to that point.

No the assumption is this change would target the lazy people disproportionately from one party because they happen to be the ones that don't have ID's. The lazy people that wouldn't go out of their way in Hickville West Virginia already have drivers licenses because driving isn't optional out in the country like it is in the middle of an urban area.

Assuming, so you have no evidence of this?

Yes putting a cap on military, foreign, and otherwise uncounted mail in ballots. Trump railed against mail in votes and demonized them for years heading into the 2020 election and then is surprised and wants the rules changed when he predictably gets destroyed by that demographic.

To make it easier for all of those groups to vote. Unless you show me some proof or reasoning why mail in ballots can't be trusted why would I care? 99% of the country can vote by mail for all I care.

You don’t care, got it.

wasting my time.

 

[TorontoGold]

😂 😂 Of course you would. I do have to ask. Do you keep these links saved on flash drive? A folder somewhere? It’s just hilarious you have a link for every little thing. I would really hate to be you.

Tell me you’ve never actually written or read academic papers without actually telling me.

Kind of sad to see an adult not know what JSTOR is. Hopefully the little ones can seek guidance in high school with teachers that’ll help them with their research. I’m rooting for the guidance counsellors so they give them a fighting chance at post secondary.

 

[Blazers46]

Tell me you’ve never actually written or read academic papers without actually telling me.

Kind of sad to see an adult not know what JSTOR is. Hopefully the little ones can seek guidance in high school with teachers that’ll help them with their research. I’m rooting for the guidance counsellors so they give them a fighting chance at post secondary.

Masters educated and I can honestly say I have never heard of JSTOR, would have helped. But then again I also grew up without internet or much adult guidance so whatever.

 

[RDU Irish]

JFC you guys are still at it? I'm impressed that Gattica is 100% confident that zero fraud occurs in elections. JFK and mayor Daley applaud your loyalty to the cause. Millions of mail in ballots and not a single one was filled out by someone other than the voter themselves. Not a single soul as Gattica repeats "zero fraud" like saying it enough times will make it true like some Russia Collusion hoax.

I have personally witnessed voter fraud in 2020 downtown Milwaukee - there is a reason shithole cities are the hotbeds of abuse and "harvesting". Atlanta, Detroit, Philly, Milwaukee and now apparently Phoenix. I really don't think y'all are serious, just committed to the cause. There is no reasonable stance against voter ID and mail in ballots are fraught with unnecessary risk.

 

[Blazers46]

JFC you guys are still at it? I'm impressed that Gattica is 100% confident that zero fraud occurs in elections. JFK and mayor Daley applaud your loyalty to the cause. Millions of mail in ballots and not a single one was filled out by someone other than the voter themselves. Not a single soul as Gattica repeats "zero fraud" like saying it enough times will make it true like some Russia Collusion hoax.

I have personally witnessed voter fraud in 2020 downtown Milwaukee - there is a reason shithole cities are the hotbeds of abuse and "harvesting". Atlanta, Detroit, Philly, Milwaukee and now apparently Phoenix. I really don't think y'all are serious, just committed to the cause. There is no reasonable stance against voter ID and mail in ballots are fraught with unnecessary risk.

The voting process is the cleanest thing in politics.

 

[GATTACA!]

JFC you guys are still at it? I'm impressed that Gattica is 100% confident that zero fraud occurs in elections. JFK and mayor Daley applaud your loyalty to the cause. Millions of mail in ballots and not a single one was filled out by someone other than the voter themselves. Not a single soul as Gattica repeats "zero fraud" like saying it enough times will make it true like some Russia Collusion hoax.

I have personally witnessed voter fraud in 2020 downtown Milwaukee - there is a reason shithole cities are the hotbeds of abuse and "harvesting". Atlanta, Detroit, Philly, Milwaukee and now apparently Phoenix. I really don't think y'all are serious, just committed to the cause. There is no reasonable stance against voter ID and mail in ballots are fraught with unnecessary risk.

I keep repeating myself because I'm hoping someone can back up one of these claims with a shred of evidence.

No worries, Blazer already conceded that point so you can move along.

 

[Blazers46]

I keep repeating myself because I'm hoping someone can back up one of these claims with a shred of evidence.

No worries, Blazer already conceded that point so you can move along.

I conceded so you would move on and see I don’t care about your point because it has no bearing my opinion on the matter. But hey we are here to win arguments, right? Congrats. You won an argument with… yourself.

 

[GATTACA!]

I conceded so you would move on and see I don’t care about your point because it has no bearing my opinion on the matter. But hey we are here to win arguments, right? Congrats. You won an argument with… yourself.

There being no voter fraud has no bearing on your desire to fix voter fraud. Flawless logic.

Maybe Torontos IQ point was accurate.

 

[Blazers46]

There being no voter fraud has no bearing on your desire to fix voter fraud. Flawless logic.

Maybe Torontos IQ point was accurate.

My house has never been broken into therefore I don’t have an alarm system or lock my doors is your flawless logic.

I have never gotten anyone pregnant therefore I won’t wear a rubber is your flawless logic.

I have never died in a car accident so I will not wear a seat belt is your flawless logic.

You are someone that probably sits on the sidelines while other people think of all the good ideas.

I never said my opinion is based on a desire to “fix” anything. This you arguing with yourself again. I may have said that it could and probably has happened but how are we to know since there really isn’t a way since places don’t verify. My desire is to be proactive and ensure voter integrity…. you are the party of voter integrity, right?

 

[GATTACA!]

My house has never been broken into therefore I don’t have an alarm system or lock my doors is your flawless logic.

I have never gotten anyone pregnant therefore I won’t wear a rubber is your flawless logic.

I have never died in a car accident so I will not wear a seat belt is your flawless logic.

You are someone that probably sits on the sidelines while other people think of all the good ideas.

I never said my opinion is based on a desire to “fix” anything. This you arguing with yourself again. I may have said that it could and probably has happened but how are we to know since there really isn’t a way since places don’t verify. My desire is to be proactive and ensure voter integrity…. you are the party of voter integrity, right?

These comparisons would be more apt if there weren't already safeguards in place. With registration it doesn't make sense that illegals could be voting without it being noticed almost immediately. I'm not going to rehash the logic because you ignored it all last time anyways.

 

[Blazers46]

These comparisons would be more apt if there weren't already safeguards in place. With registration it doesn't make sense that illegals could be voting without it being noticed almost immediately. I'm not going to rehash the logic because you ignored it all last time anyways.

Safeguard like a door on my house? A fence around my yard perhaps? A bumper and steel frame around my car… driving school and education.

I’m actually surprised you aren’t calling to abolish registration as it seems like a cumbersome process for lazy ass democrats. Seems like a barrier you would want to get rid of.

 

[NorthDakota]

That's exactly my point. They have more important things to do than to register to get whatever ID now being required. Putting food on the table is more important than satisfying whatever new requirement is being pushed out. If someone has to worry about a number of things that someone else doesn't have to, they're going to prioritize those things before going to the DMV.

Adding extra steps does not change "fraud", because it's already at such a trivial level that improving it will not lead to anything meaningful except suppressing turnout.



It's correlation doesn't mean causation.

I would link a number of studies that show reasons as to why older people vote more. But what's the point. It's not because they "care more about the country".

I think adding extra steps probably inherently addresses fraud in some manner. If you can't show who you are and where you are from, that is gonna rub many the wrong way. (I believe voter ID has majority support in both parties).

End of the day, it's more about establishing confidence in an election than anything else. The ID thing seems like a no-brainer.

 

[TorontoGold]

I think adding extra steps probably inherently addresses fraud in some manner. If you can't show who you are and where you are from, that is gonna rub many the wrong way. (I believe voter ID has majority support in both parties).

End of the day, it's more about establishing confidence in an election than anything else. The ID thing seems like a no-brainer.

Is that not the case? I checked out California and it seems like I need ID to register to vote. I presume if you don’t get your ballot, you would then need to show additional id at the polling station.

The confidence in the voting id discussion is invented outrage. If there was fraud it would be borne out in the data. It’s not, and adding more government regulations seems like an anti conservative thing anyways. Spending time and tax payer money on things that don’t happen seems pretty dumb, no?

 

[Irish#1]

That's exactly my point. They have more important things to do than to register to get whatever ID now being required. Putting food on the table is more important than satisfying whatever new requirement is being pushed out. If someone has to worry about a number of things that someone else doesn't have to, they're going to prioritize those things before going to the DMV.

Adding extra steps does not change "fraud", because it's already at such a trivial level that improving it will not lead to anything meaningful except suppressing turnout.



It's correlation doesn't mean causation.

I would link a number of studies that show reasons as to why older people vote more. But what's the point. It's not because they "care more about the country".

Don't try the Vortex on me. I never said needing an ID was due to voter fraud. I never supported Trump's claim of massive voter fraud.

Getting an ID = Not feeding the family is a stretch. Maybe I'm an anomaly, but this Boomer still works full time, is renovating a flipper, has an acre I need to mow regularly, maintain our home and goes to several grandkids baseball and softball games every week. Yet, I somehow managed to get my license renewed. How did I do that? I went on my lunch hour! If people care, they will find a way to get the ID and no one or no family will be worse off.

 

[Irish#1]

I think adding extra steps probably inherently addresses fraud in some manner. If you can't show who you are and where you are from, that is gonna rub many the wrong way. (I believe voter ID has majority support in both parties).

End of the day, it's more about establishing confidence in an election than anything else. The ID thing seems like a no-brainer.

You can probably see some minor fraud in every election, regardless of which party won/loss. I don't believe there has been any on the level Trump has claimed.

ID's can go a ways to reduce what there is whether intentional or not. Yet, what some are failing to see, is that if we require ID, then you can also reduce the opportunity for someone like Trump to cry foul.

 

[NorthDakota]

Is that not the case? I checked out California and it seems like I need ID to register to vote. I presume if you don’t get your ballot, you would then need to show additional id at the polling station.

The confidence in the voting id discussion is invented outrage. If there was fraud it would be borne out in the data. It’s not, and adding more government regulations seems like an anti conservative thing anyways. Spending time and tax payer money on things that don’t happen seems pretty dumb, no?

If you need an ID to register, why can't you bring it to the polling station?

It's not invented outrage. If the rules to voting are silly, they should be fixed. The amount of time and taxpayer money that would be spent relative to the benefit provided seems like an excellent investment.

 

[Irish#1]

Who didn't see this response coming. lol

Democratic leader defends Cuellar: Charges ‘very different’ from Santos, Menendez

The head of the House Democratic Caucus defended the right of Rep. Henry Cuellar (D-Texas) to remain in Congress while his criminal trial runs its course, saying the Texas Democrat — recently indic…

www.newsnationnow.com

 

[TorontoGold]

Don't try the Vortex on me. I never said needing an ID was due to voter fraud. I never supported Trump's claim of massive voter fraud.

Getting an ID = Not feeding the family is a stretch. Maybe I'm an anomaly, but this Boomer still works full time, is renovating a flipper, has an acre I need to mow regularly, maintain our home and goes to several grandkids baseball and softball games every week. Yet, I somehow managed to get my license renewed. How did I do that? I went on my lunch hour! If people care, they will find a way to get the ID and no one or no family will be worse off.

Your confusion does not = Vortex. The conversation regarding ID was to address fraud.

I didn't make that claim, I said their priorities would be on feeding their family first. If they other priorities that are more important they aren't going to prioritize going to get a new ID to vote.

That's a very nice story. You are not poor or in a age cohort in which voter turnout is an issue. Unfortunately, there are numerous academic papers done on this very topic which show food/shelter etc. are more important to people.

If you need an ID to register, why can't you bring it to the polling station?

It's not invented outrage. If the rules to voting are silly, they should be fixed. The amount of time and taxpayer money that would be spent relative to the benefit provided seems like an excellent investment.

You can bring it? But if you've registered using a different ID, and then the rules change on which ID is acceptable but you don't have the one you can see how thats an issue.

Absolutely invented. There is no benefit because there is no fraud issue. You don't get Lasik surgery if you don't need it.

 

[RDU Irish]

I keep repeating myself because I'm hoping someone can back up one of these claims with a shred of evidence.

No worries, Blazer already conceded that point so you can move along.

Hilarious "where is the evidence!" like your google machine doesn't work? Type in election fraud and this is the first non-news link on the google. Voter Fraud Map: Election Fraud Database | The Heritage Foundation

Maybe nobody responds b/c your claim is so absurd on it's face it shouldn't warrant a response. Or maybe you are black in NY and don't know what a computer is.

 

[RDU Irish]

I think adding extra steps probably inherently addresses fraud in some manner. If you can't show who you are and where you are from, that is gonna rub many the wrong way. (I believe voter ID has majority support in both parties).

End of the day, it's more about establishing confidence in an election than anything else. The ID thing seems like a no-brainer.

I submit more people are disenfranchised by their lack of confidence in the system than anything. Why vote, they will just harvest what they need out of the inner city anyway. When one in three or one in four Americans don't trust the system you can't tell me none of them are disengaging as a result. 1. Views of election administration and confidence in vote counts

 

[RDU Irish]

If you never open your eyes it doesn't matter if you can't see. If nobody is pulled over, nobody is speeding.

"Thou doth protest too much" is why we know fraud is real. Go to the mat over ID, push for month long elections, drop boxes everywhere, easing mail in ballots, celebrate turnout.... but couldn't care less if one third of America doesn't trust the process which undoubtedly affects turnout. Harvesters and cheaters love apathy and hate rules. Anyone who thinks they stopped at JFK in Chicago is being intellectually dishonest. Anyone who honestly thinks the apathetic of Baltimore aren't being harvested is beyond Pollyannaish.