Politics

[Bishop2b5]

So are tax cuts. So is just about everything politicians do. Biden fulfilled a campaign promise.

To keep this on education, do you think public education is "robbing" from childless property owners to ensure the youth of this country receive a somewhat standard level of education?

That whole line of reasoning is ridiculous. We "rob" from one group to pay the "debt" of another ALL THE TIME. It's called a society. You just don't like this particular "robbing".

And yes, you are acting like a selfish prick. Rather than recognize that this will impact roughly 43 million of your fellow citizens (the vast majority taxpayers like yourself) in a positive way, you go with, "that's not fair" and try to use some lame logical fallacy to pretend that all debt is the same.

By the way, Tytler didn't like democracy and there is no written evidence he ever said that quote. It's just more right-wing rhetoric meant to demean people who receive assistance from the government.

Baloney! I have NO obligation to pay someone else's student loans so Biden can buy votes from a certain demographic, especially after I've already paid my own student loans and those of my kids. Nothing prickish about wanting to keep what I earn to help my family and those I choose to help. What right do you have to what I've earned? Stop protecting people from their bad decisions. They don't learn anything and it just encourages them to continue making bad decisions. It teaches them to have little responsibility for themselves or their choices. They made bad decisions about colleges, degrees, and finances. Sorry for them, but not my responsibility, and forcing me to pay their debts is not their right.

 

[ulukinatme]

At the very least if they do cancel student loan relief and give that money back to the people it's not going to do anything to help inflation and we could see some supply issues again but on a smaller scale since there's not as many students. It's no different than the free handouts during COVID that drove up car prices, food, etc because it's bonus money back in many people's pockets that they no longer have to budget each month. The other issue is that it drives a wedge between those that were responsible and actually paid off their loans and those that didn't. The responsible people get nothing for doing what was expected of them, while the others carrying loans are getting thousands back.

 

[TorontoGold]

Wrong turn Toronto. I have three on a staff of ten that don’t have degrees and that doesn’t include me.

BTW……The Boomer whining gets old. You guys need to quit blaming the Boomers for your problems. You conveniently forget that Boomers were protesting to end the Viet Nam war and were pushing for environmental change (we called it ecology back then) before Gen X, millennials and GenZ. Also struck a lot to raise wages. Of course the government cheese was a hit!

So does whining about how entitled the current generations are.

Toronto, if taxes won't go up if the government "forgives" $400B in student loans, where do you think the money comes from? Or what do you think happens to that rather large debt? Most of those loans aren't actually from the government, AFAIK. They're from banks and other lending institutions and just guaranteed by the Gov, correct? You're talking real money paid to real lenders and coming out of the pockets of real taxpaying families who already have their own debts and expenses to cover. Of course our taxes will go up one way or another to cover the cost, or the government will have to reduce spending somewhere else on something we'd expected them to do. No matter how you cut it, spin it, or paint it in a different light, it's forcing the rest of us to pay the debts of college educated young adults who made some woefully bad decisions and now want the rest of us to protect them from the consequences of their actions. No.

You know why economists measure debt servicing as a % of GDP right? And you understand the concept of taxation? If the economy expands by a factor greater than debt service costs that is a good thing. Debt service costs have been falling or remaining constant for years. This shows that obligations are not rising more than what the government can handle. You know how you reduce the debt? You don't issue tax cuts in an expansion, you spend a fraction of what you would spend on the military on your actual citizens, and maybe just maybe enforce residency taxation laws better. Idk though maybe I'm just a woke indoctrinated gullible leftist who can't measure up with infallible logic like "I got mine so screw em". You should question why the same people that received PPP loans are telling you that student loan forgiveness is so evil.

 

[jprue24]

Baloney! I have NO obligation to pay someone else's student loans so Biden can buy votes from a certain demographic, especially after I've already paid my own student loans and those of my kids. Nothing prickish about wanting to keep what I earn to help my family and those I choose to help. What right do you have to what I've earned? Stop protecting people from their bad decisions. They don't learn anything and it just encourages them to continue making bad decisions. It teaches them to have little responsibility for themselves or their choices. They made bad decisions about colleges, degrees, and finances. Sorry for them, but not my responsibility, and forcing me to pay their debts is not their right.

Again, you assume people have student loan debt due to bad decisions and that drives your reaction.

Again, this relief basically covers the interest paid on an avg under graduate loan, not the loans themselves.

But you don't care about any of that. You can only see how it might impact you. That's being a selfish prick.

 

[jprue24]

I don't know. Maybe the disconnect comes from the fact that I live in a state with a lower share of people benefiting from this and you (assuming you live in the south) live in a state with a higher share.

Revisiting Federal Student Loan Forgiveness: An Update Based on the White House Plan - Liberty Street Economics

We update our analysis of the impact of the White House student loan forgiveness plan now that policy parameters are known.

libertystreeteconomics.newyorkfed.org

 

[GATTACA!]

So does whining about how entitled the current generations are.


You know why economists measure debt servicing as a % of GDP right? And you understand the concept of taxation? If the economy expands by a factor greater than debt service costs that is a good thing. Debt service costs have been falling or remaining constant for years. This shows that obligations are not rising more than what the government can handle. You know how you reduce the debt? You don't issue tax cuts in an expansion, you spend a fraction of what you would spend on the military on your actual citizens, and maybe just maybe enforce residency taxation laws better. Idk though maybe I'm just a woke indoctrinated gullible leftist who can't measure up with infallible logic like "I got mine so screw em". You should question why the same people that received PPP loans are telling you that student loan forgiveness is so evil.

Beat me to it on the PPP stuff. Drives me crazy to hear people complaining about the government actually trying to help average Americans, yet none of them batted an eye when 75% of the $800 billion dollars in PPP loans went to the upper 20%. You know, millionaires and billionaires.

tHeYrE bUyInG vOtEs!

Promising/doing things that actually help people makes them want to vote for you. More news at 11.

 

[ulukinatme]

SNL’s opening skit is hilarious.

It was pretty good, just saw it. James Austin Johnson really is the best Trump impersonator. He's got the voice down, the mannerisms, speech patterns, and good timing.

 

[GATTACA!]

It was pretty good, just saw it. James Austin Johnson really is the best Trump impersonator. He's got the voice down, the mannerisms, speech patterns, and good timing.

Gillis's is pretty good


Jaime Foxx's is amazing also

 

[ulukinatme]

Gillis's is pretty good


Jaime Foxx's is amazing also

I think Foxx has the voice down better than Gillis. This was the cold open that @Irish#1 was talking about.

 

[Polish Leppy 22]

Imagine thinking the party lead by Trump is the one with brains lolol.

Trump isn't the leader of the party. When it comes to the coffers, Mitch screwed the pooch this cycle.

 

[Cackalacky2.0]

Trump isn't the leader of the party. When it comes to the coffers, Mitch screwed the pooch this cycle.

Who is then? Mitch didn’t fail to pick up 40+ house seats. Mitch didn’t fail to pick up Senate seats although they made some poor allocation choices. This midterm as far as Dems go was a referendum on MAGA extremism, Dobbs decision, and protecting democracy all brought to us by Trump and MAGAs very clear and very public actions and statements.

Dems held or flipped House seats where less insane GOP candidates lost primaries to MAGA shitheads and Dems won R +14 seats.

If it weren’t for extremely gerrymandered FL districts and Dems fucking themselves in NY districting the house would still soundly be in Dems hands.

It’s too late to backtrack and not accept the former POTUS isn’t your parties leader lol. If the REDshart had been a Red Hurricane I know you all would be sitting here claiming victory of MAGA


#SheIsRight and they voted her out


After seeing how bad the polls were for this I have to go back wonder how bad they are on Bidens approval?

 

[Irish#1]

That woman HATES Democrats with an admirable passion.

Doesn’t mean she’s wrong.

 

[Cackalacky2.0]

What makes you so confident? Curious.

I’d be surprised if this SCOTUS voted to deny a power not specifically claimed by Congress to the president. Their track record is pretty clear there standing or not.

No one is being harmed by this. The people who brought the suit held private loans not public ones so their debt is their own ( maybe they should have thought about that before securing a private loan choices have consequences right?) and isn’t harmed by other people getting theirs relieved. Relief is most definitely meant to aid people coming back from COVID which both Presidents have used the program to modify with regards to the student loan programs

 

[Irish#1]

So does whining about how entitled the current generations are.


You know why economists measure debt servicing as a % of GDP right? And you understand the concept of taxation? If the economy expands by a factor greater than debt service costs that is a good thing. Debt service costs have been falling or remaining constant for years. This shows that obligations are not rising more than what the government can handle. You know how you reduce the debt? You don't issue tax cuts in an expansion, you spend a fraction of what you would spend on the military on your actual citizens, and maybe just maybe enforce residency taxation laws better. Idk though maybe I'm just a woke indoctrinated gullible leftist who can't measure up with infallible logic like "I got mine so screw em". You should question why the same people that received PPP loans are telling you that student loan forgiveness is so evil.

My only complaint about current x’s and millennial’s is their inability to stay at a job more than a year or two.

 

[Irish#1]

I’d be surprised if this SCOTUS voted to deny a power not specifically claimed by Congress to the president. Their track record is pretty clear there standing or not.

No one is being harmed by this. The people who brought the suit held private loans not public ones so their debt is their own ( maybe they should have thought about that before securing a private loan choices have consequences right?) and isn’t harmed by other people getting theirs relieved. Relief is most definitely meant to aid people coming back from COVID which both Presidents have used the program to modify with regards to the student loan programs

So you’re okay forgiving government student loans but not private? How is securing a private loan a bad choice but getting a government subsidized loan isn’t? Priceless.

 

[Cackalacky2.0]

So you’re okay forgiving government student loans but not private? How is securing a private loan a bad choice but getting a government subsidized loan isn’t? Priceless.

Forgiving a loan is between the lender and lendee. That’s between the bank and the person. I don’t have any problems if Chase or First National Bank of Southeast Texas State wants to forgive loans. Doesn’t impact me at all.

It’s not necessarily a bad choice but it is A choice and those people will have to deal with it. #RiskAssessment. They can deal with their lenders and ask for forgiveness or not and see what comes of it.

And inB4…. Many people/businesss go into bankruptcy rather than pay their debts and obligations and for businesses it deemed as a correct and legal process. But individuals or people with crippling student debt are seen as scrubs and lowlifes. Whatever.

 

[Polish Leppy 22]

Who is then? Mitch didn’t fail to pick up 40+ house seats. Mitch didn’t fail to pick up Senate seats although they made some poor allocation choices. This midterm as far as Dems go was a referendum on MAGA extremism, Dobbs decision, and protecting democracy all brought to us by Trump and MAGAs very clear and very public actions and statements.

Dems held or flipped House seats where less insane GOP candidates lost primaries to MAGA shitheads and Dems won R +14 seats.

If it weren’t for extremely gerrymandered FL districts and Dems fucking themselves in NY districting the house would still soundly be in Dems hands.

It’s too late to backtrack and not accept the former POTUS isn’t your parties leader lol. If the REDshart had been a Red Hurricane I know you all would be sitting here claiming victory of MAGA


After seeing how bad the polls were for this I have to go back wonder how bad they are on Bidens approval?

On paper the leader Ronna McDaniel. Trump is a prominent figure considering he was in the White House 2 years ago, but he isn't the leader. And I never said he as the leader, so there's no backtracking here.

Mitch botched this cycle from a candidate and allocation of money side of things. Rs still took the House, Senate was very close, and Rs picked up traditionally strong D seats and visa versa. We can play that game all day.

As bad as things are right now with our economy and 67% of Americans still think we're on the wrong track, the red wave didn't come. If it had come, I know I would have pointed to a ton of factors that didn't include Trump.

 

[Irish#1]

Forgiving a loan is between the lender and lendee. That’s between the bank and the person. I don’t have any problems if Chase or First National Bank of Southeast Texas State wants to forgive loans. Doesn’t impact me at all.

Student loan is still for a college education regardless of where it originates. I guess if the bad decision involves the government then it’s okay to help, but screw the others. Pretty selective.

 

[Cackalacky2.0]

Student loan is still for a college education regardless of where it originates. I guess if the bad decision involves the government then it’s okay to help, but screw the others. Pretty selective.

Lol. Ok. Pretty selective. Why is holding a student loan a bad decision? I still have one that I am paying for. I used that student loan to better my life. Millions of people do the same everyday. Not everyone is underwater and not everyone made a bad choice. Talk about selective Mr Black Kettle. Fucking hell man … you paint a picture that I am one of these pieces of lowlife shit because I have a student loan and would welcome some relief. I’m better off than some but worse than others. So what. It costs the goverment nothing because they are basically losing out on a portion of what would be charged interest payments not the total repayment. Lol.

The goverment is in a unique position to consolidate and reorganize debt and recouperation. They can totally afford to offer low rate or zero interest loans for people who are looking to better their life and get higher wages in a job that REQUIRES higher education like me.

And it’s not just young people who hold this debt or haven’t repaid it:

“However, people carry their education debt well into middle-age and beyond. Borrowers ages 35 to 49 owe more than $620 billion in student loans. This cohort has the highest number of borrowers who owe more than $100,000 in loans.

Even retirees feel the pressure from student loans; there are 2.4 million borrowers aged 62 or older that owe $98 billion in student loans”

I’m also already on the record as saying reform is needed but this issue of forgiving $10k per person is helpful as getting a $3000 check three times during COVID and costs the lender nothing because it amounts to foegiving interest on a loan over the course of one year for the average borrower

 

[Cackalacky2.0]

On paper the leader Ronna McDaniel. Trump is a prominent figure considering he was in the White House 2 years ago, but he isn't the leader. And I never said he as the leader, so there's no backtracking here.

Mitch botched this cycle from a candidate and allocation of money side of things. Rs still took the House, Senate was very close, and Rs picked up traditionally strong D seats and visa versa. We can play that game all day.

As bad as things are right now with our economy and 67% of Americans still think we're on the wrong track, the red wave didn't come. If it had come, I know I would have pointed to a ton of factors that didn't include Trump.

Rona McDaniel is NOT the leader. Lol. And this assessment is as rosy a picture of the REDShart as I have seen. Not even Faux news is this optimistic. Lol

The Dems flipped governors and whole state houses. Outside of Florida this election was a catastrophe for the GOP. An unmitigated political disaster brought to you by Trump who will announce his running on the 15th and there will be a civil war between him and DeSantis and I got my popcorn ready.

 

[Cackalacky2.0]

Another seat GOP favored to win by 90%. Another Dem flip

 

[Irish#1]

Lol. Ok. Pretty selective. Why is holding a student loan a bad decision? I still have one that I am paying for. I used that student loan to better my life. Millions of people do the same everyday. Not everyone is underwater and not everyone made a bad choice. Talk about selective Mr Black Kettle. Fucking hell man … you paint a picture that I am one of these pieces of lowlife shit because I have a student loan and would welcome some relief. I’m better off than some but worse than others. So what. It costs the goverment nothing because they are basically losing out on a portion of what would be charged interest payments not the total repayment. Lol.

The goverment is in a unique position to consolidate and reorganize debt and recouperation. They can totally afford to offer low rate or zero interest loans for people who are looking to better their life and get higher wages in a job that REQUIRES higher education like me.

And it’s not just young people who hold this debt or haven’t repaid it:

“However, people carry their education debt well into middle-age and beyond. Borrowers ages 35 to 49 owe more than $620 billion in student loans. This cohort has the highest number of borrowers who owe more than $100,000 in loans.

Even retirees feel the pressure from student loans; there are 2.4 million borrowers aged 62 or older that owe $98 billion in student loans”

I’m also already on the record as saying reform is needed but this issue of forgiving $10k per person is helpful as getting a $3000 check three times during COVID and costs the lender nothing because it amounts to foegiving interest on a loan over the course of one year for the average borrower

Never said having a student loan was a bad decision. Forgiving the loans/interest is a bad decision. Students and parents know ahead of time the cost of going to school, but many don’t really think about what it really costs until they’re out and then complain they can’t afford to make the payments. Then it was probably a bad decision. Plenty of options to getting a degree without incurring a huge debt.

Please show me where I said or even referred to you as a low life piece of shit or anyone else for that matter. Making poor choices on student loans doesn’t make anyone a low life piece of shit. I made some poor financial decisions when I was younger, but I owned them and paid to take care of them. I applaud you for taking care of you debt, but when I’m ready to call you names you’ll know it and you’ll be asking the other mods to ban me.

 

[stpeteirish]

On paper the leader Ronna McDaniel. Trump is a prominent figure considering he was in the White House 2 years ago, but he isn't the leader. And I never said he as the leader, so there's no backtracking here.

Mitch botched this cycle from a candidate and allocation of money side of things. Rs still took the House, Senate was very close, and Rs picked up traditionally strong D seats and visa versa. We can play that game all day.

As bad as things are right now with our economy and 67% of Americans still think we're on the wrong track, the red wave didn't come. If it had come, I know I would have pointed to a ton of factors that didn't include Trump.

67% of the people say we're on the wrong track but not all of them favor the Republican track of less government, taxes etc. A lot of them complain about the government not doing enough about climate change, wealth distribution, gun control, abortion access and other things the Democrats are trying, unsucessfully, to accomplish.

 

[Bishop2b5]

So does whining about how entitled the current generations are.


You know why economists measure debt servicing as a % of GDP right? And you understand the concept of taxation? If the economy expands by a factor greater than debt service costs that is a good thing. Debt service costs have been falling or remaining constant for years. This shows that obligations are not rising more than what the government can handle. You know how you reduce the debt? You don't issue tax cuts in an expansion, you spend a fraction of what you would spend on the military on your actual citizens, and maybe just maybe enforce residency taxation laws better. Idk though maybe I'm just a woke indoctrinated gullible leftist who can't measure up with infallible logic like "I got mine so screw em". You should question why the same people that received PPP loans are telling you that student loan forgiveness is so evil.

Again, you assume people have student loan debt due to bad decisions and that drives your reaction.

Again, this relief basically covers the interest paid on an avg under graduate loan, not the loans themselves.

But you don't care about any of that. You can only see how it might impact you. That's being a selfish prick.

 

[TorontoGold]

Instead of juvenile, smarmy, snarky replies, use your big words and tell me why you think it IS the government's money or why those of us who paid our student loans, paid our kids' way through college, or couldn't afford to pay for college and instead joined the military or went to work should pay someone else's student loan debt because they made poor financial decisions about what school to attend, what degree to earn, and how much money to borrow.

View attachment 3051917

 

[NorthDakota]

I’d be surprised if this SCOTUS voted to deny a power not specifically claimed by Congress to the president. Their track record is pretty clear there standing or not.

No one is being harmed by this. The people who brought the suit held private loans not public ones so their debt is their own ( maybe they should have thought about that before securing a private loan choices have consequences right?) and isn’t harmed by other people getting theirs relieved. Relief is most definitely meant to aid people coming back from COVID which both Presidents have used the program to modify with regards to the student loan programs

State/public employers are claiming to be harmed because they use PSLF to entice/retain talent. This plan would cost them money. We'll see how the courts see that argument.

I'd be careful with the "most definitely because of COVID" thinking. Anyway, here is a Jonathan Turley article. He's much more articulate. Turley Article.

TL;Dr - Biden's CDC eviction failure is similar. His own Justice Dept told him he couldn't do this. He's trying to use Covid as a sword and a shield (arguing in one case that Covid is over; arguing here that it is a national emergency).

 

[ab2cmiller]

State/public employers are claiming to be harmed because they use PSLF to entice/retain talent. This plan would cost them money. We'll see how the courts see that argument.

I'd be careful with the "most definitely because of COVID" thinking. Anyway, here is a Jonathan Turley article. He's much more articulate. Turley Article.

TL;Dr - Biden's CDC eviction failure is similar. His own Justice Dept told him he couldn't do this. He's trying to use Covid as a sword and a shield (arguing in one case that Covid is over; arguing here that it is a national emergency).

Biden knew that it was illegal. Biden knew he didn't have much of a shot in the courts. He waited until the end of August 2022 to announce his proclamation. Gee I wonder why he waited so long when he could've done this thing at least a year earlier.

You guys can sit here and try to argue the economic benefits all you want, but it doesn't make any difference if it's illegal.

The only way this thing could've been done legally is to legislate it.

As Dakota has referenced, the Biden admin can't keep arguing both sides of the coin, for one legal fight as compared to another.

 

[Bishop2b5]

Well, after countless posts, you've failed to provide a single rational reason why I should pay someone else's debts other than it would help them (while harming me). I've finally accepted that you and others believe your wants and wishes are as valid as my logic and facts and that there's no reasoning with those who think that way. You can't prove that 3x2=6 to those who don't believe in numbers. Therefore, I determined that a bit of humor to make my point was kinder and gentler than using my big words and the full weight of my mind, which, we've learned from experience in the political threads, tends to hurt some feelings, cause a couple of meltdowns and permabans, and frequently results in a need for PTSD therapy from those on the receiving end of such encounters. Therefore, I say to you good sir, "You'd make a fine British shopkeeper, but I regret to inform you that this parrot is no more!"

 

[Polish Leppy 22]

On paper the leader Ronna McDaniel. Trump is a prominent figure considering he was in the White House 2 years ago, but he isn't the leader. And I never said he as the leader, so there's no backtracking here.

Mitch botched this cycle from a candidate and allocation of money side of things. Rs still took the House, Senate was very close, and Rs picked up traditionally strong D seats and visa versa. We can play that game all day.

As bad as things are right now with our economy and 67% of Americans still think we're on the wrong track, the red wave didn't come. If it had come, I know I would have pointed to a ton of factors that didn't include Trump.

Rona McDaniel is NOT the leader. Lol. And this assessment is as rosy a picture of the REDShart as I have seen. Not even Faux news is this optimistic. Lol

The Dems flipped governors and whole state houses. Outside of Florida this election was a catastrophe for the GOP. An unmitigated political disaster brought to you by Trump who will announce his running on the 15th and there will be a civil war between him and DeSantis and I got my popcorn ready.

Not sure why you're trying so hard to argue this, but yes Ronna McDaniel is head of the RNC. You could even make an argument for McCarthy or McConnell, but it isn't Trump.

If you wanna go tit for tat on Congressional seats, let me know. It'll take a while. Wins and losses on both sides, including red wins in blue states.

Trump is the leader of the MAGA portion of the GOP, but he isn't the leader of the GOP. Both parties need to identify who their candidate for 2024 is gonna be. Eat all the popcorn you want.

 

[TorontoGold]

Well, after countless posts, you've failed to provide a single rational reason why I should pay someone else's debts other than it would help them (while harming me). I've finally accepted that you and others believe your wants and wishes are as valid as my logic and facts and that there's no reasoning with those who think that way. You can't prove that 3x2=6 to those who don't believe in numbers. Therefore, I determined that a bit of humor to make my point was kinder and gentler than using my big words and the full weight of my mind, which, we've learned from experience in the political threads, tends to hurt some feelings, cause a couple of meltdowns and permabans, and frequently results in a need for PTSD therapy from those on the receiving end of such encounters. Therefore, I say to you good sir, "You'd make a fine British shopkeeper, but I regret to inform you that this parrot is no more!"

View attachment 3051918

Facts and logic, yet you've never addressed the economic reasons behind debt servicing or why it is better to have a population with good liquidity. If you count "muh feelings" as logic and facts then I guess you're right. I wish you could use the full weight of your mind to educate us on how exactly your perception of taxation and debt is different from the real world.

The only one who's ever had a temper tantrum is the very sad man who had to complain about getting about an owner so they could ignore them. Otherwise? Not sure anyone has soiled their diapers quite that hard.