Politics

[Rockin’Irish]

So is there numbers to support this illegal immigration is good for Dems? How do you come to this conclusion (emotion aside)?

There has to be some figure or number that you're seeing about this that supports that theory? If illegal immigrants aren't able to vote then how is this a plus for Democrats?

Just a quick thought on this from the peanut gallery…….it’s possible that the current illegal immigration is viewed by the Democratic Party as “we are just trying to help those unfortunate people trying to escape their terrible lives”. This may equate to doing the “humane” thing and we all know that the democrats are more humane than the other political persuasions. This could have a galvanizing effect within much of the Democratic Party.

 

[TorontoGold]

Just a quick thought on this from the peanut gallery…….it’s possible that the current illegal immigration is viewed by the Democratic Party as “we are just trying to help those unfortunate people trying to escape their terrible lives”. This may equate to doing the “humane” thing and we all know that the democrats are more humane than the other political persuasions. This could have a galvanizing effect within much of the Democratic Party.

I think that's a fair and likely correct assumption, of course we know that they (Dems) likely don't have the purest intentions.

 

[Irish#1]

I think that's a fair and likely correct assumption, of course we know that they (Dems) likely don't have the purest intentions.

You've finally come to your senses!

 

[Irish#1]

Just a quick thought on this from the peanut gallery…….it’s possible that the current illegal immigration is viewed by the Democratic Party as “we are just trying to help those unfortunate people trying to escape their terrible lives”. This may equate to doing the “humane” thing and we all know that the democrats are more humane than the other political persuasions. This could have a galvanizing effect within much of the Democratic Party.

I agree, but their actions say different (Martha's Vineyard).

 

[Rockin’Irish]

I agree, but their actions say different (Martha's Vineyard).

Indeed……it’s easy to talk but it’s often a different tune when things are in your own backyard.

 

[drayer54]

Can I provide an explicit policy from the Democrats where they provide their basis for inaction on the border is to turn AZ and TX Blue?

When I say it's their motivator and consistent with their race-driven identity politics, that's because of what we've seen from them for the past decade.

I can point to several articles about turning the states blue depending on Hispanic voters, but you seem to set up this false idea that it can only be true if its a stated policy position and not a motivator.

I think that's a fair and likely correct assumption, of course we know that they (Dems) likely don't have the purest intentions.

Mayor Bowser, Mayor Adams, and the good folks of Martha's Vineyard must not have got the message. It's only OK to Dems because it is over there and can disrupt states they want to flip. Note that they still aren't interested in solving the problem, just shoving the problem back to the border towns.

 

[TorontoGold]

Can I provide an explicit policy from the Democrats where they provide their basis for inaction on the border is to turn AZ and TX Blue?

When I say it's their motivator and consistent with their race-driven identity politics, that's because of what we've seen from them for the past decade.

I can point to several articles about turning the states blue depending on Hispanic voters, but you seem to set up this false idea that it can only be true if its a stated policy position and not a motivator.


Mayor Bowser, Mayor Adams, and the good folks of Martha's Vineyard must not have got the message. It's only OK to Dems because it is over there and can disrupt states they want to flip. Note that they still aren't interested in solving the problem, just shoving the problem back to the border towns.

Where did I say that? I asked for the stats to support the position that PL22 had made. It's been crickets since.

Again and again it's just race driven identity politics and emotion by the MAGA crew here. Thought someone could at least some argument based in fact. Starting to think our very own mensa society member who proclaimed that Conservatives find positions based on the facts available wasn't correct, who woulda thunk.

10's of millions lol, "states turning blue", illegal immigrants somehow obtaining the ability to vote (?) all can't be supported.

 

[drayer54]

Where did I say that? I asked for the stats to support the position that PL22 had made. It's been crickets since.

Again and again it's just race driven identity politics and emotion by the MAGA crew here. Thought someone could at least some argument based in fact. Starting to think our very own mensa society member who proclaimed that Conservatives find positions based on the facts available wasn't correct, who woulda thunk.

10's of millions lol, "states turning blue", illegal immigrants somehow obtaining the ability to vote (?) all can't be supported.

Are you asking if the party that features reparations and racial justice/environmental justice platforms and has tried to push immigrant voting this year is motivated by power in their inaction to control the border in two of their primary targets for national elections?

I never said ten million, I said record flow. I shared a record border crossing post, which is a stat. A fact. Something that happened under Biden. It's not my fault that you need to hear it from something that fits your narrow purview.

The idea of an influx of people and it not having an impact on votes is insane. Of course, they will impact elections and keep their growing population with second-generation and third-generation voters.

 

[TorontoGold]

Are you asking if the party that features reparations and racial justice/environmental justice platforms and has tried to push immigrant voting this year is motivated by power in their inaction to control the border in two of their primary targets for national elections?

I never said ten million, I said record flow. I shared a record border crossing post, which is a stat. A fact. Something that happened under Biden. It's not my fault that you need to hear it from something that fits your narrow purview.

The idea of an influx of people and it not having an impact on votes is insane. Of course, they will impact elections and keep their growing population with second-generation and third-generation voters.

This is the post I responded to, if you're going to jump in and get all hot and bothered.

Importing tens of millions of immigrants (some legal, many illegally) to the US for political purposes has been the Democrats' border policy for decades. You seem like a smart enough guy, just not sure how or why you have this huge and obvious blind spot here when it comes to two parties doing similar things but you only take issue with one.

1. The 10's of millions claim
2. Legal/illegal immigration being for political purposes.

You both can not and for whatever reason are unable to post any stats that support your positions. At the end of the day are you advocating for legal immigrants not to be allowed to vote, even though they pay tax?

 

[Irish#1]

Where did I say that? I asked for the stats to support the position that PL22 had made. It's been crickets since.

Again and again it's just race driven identity politics and emotion by the MAGA crew here. Thought someone could at least some argument based in fact. Starting to think our very own mensa society member who proclaimed that Conservatives find positions based on the facts available wasn't correct, who woulda thunk.

10's of millions lol, "states turning blue", illegal immigrants somehow obtaining the ability to vote (?) all can't be supported.

Where did I say that? I asked for the stats to support the position that PL22 had made. It's been crickets since.

Again and again it's just race driven identity politics and emotion by the MAGA crew here. Thought someone could at least some argument based in fact. Starting to think our very own mensa society member who proclaimed that Conservatives find positions based on the facts available wasn't correct, who woulda thunk.

10's of millions lol, "states turning blue", illegal immigrants somehow obtaining the ability to vote (?) all can't be supported.

Would you care to list those that you believe to be MAGA men? I think you'll be surprised how few would vote for Trump in the primary.

 

[TorontoGold]

Would you care to list those that you believe to be MAGA men? I think you'll be surprised how few would vote for Trump in the primary.

Drayer and co.

You liked his post would you like share why you agree and support that position with numbers?

Still waiting on your response to the PPP vs Student loan stuff. You seemed eager for my thoughts so I'm sure you just missed it.

 

[drayer54]

Lol- MAGA man. I guess everything looks MAGA from the left wing fringe, even the bizarrely stupid PPP vs Student debt comparison.

Would you care to list those that you believe to be MAGA men? I think you'll be surprised how few would vote for Trump in the primary.

Pretty sure I’ve made it clear that I want Trump to stay home.

 

[Jiggafini19Deux]

 

[ndfanatic78]

Reading political opinions on a Notre Dame football board is more painful than getting a prostate exam by Wolverine.

 

[Bishop2b5]

A very disingenuous and dishonest portrayal of what actually happened. Cruz cosponsored the "Ports to Plains" bill. He voted against the $1.5 trillion spending package it got folded into because he felt the spending package was bloated, much of it was unnecessary pork, and would contribute to inflation. For a more accurate account instead of a spun WH tweet, see this from The Hill.

White House slams Ted Cruz for touting infrastructure project he voted against

The White House on Wednesday took to Twitter to slam Sen. Ted Cruz (R-Texas) for highlighting his work advocating for a highway project he ultimately voted against in March. Cruz and Sen. Ben Ray L…

thehill.com

 

[ACamp1900]

A very disingenuous and dishonest portrayal of what actually happened. Cruz cosponsored the "Ports to Plains" bill. He voted against the $1.5 trillion spending package it got folded into because he felt the spending package was bloated, much of it was unnecessary pork, and would contribute to inflation. For a more accurate account instead of a spun WH tweet, see this from The Hill.

White House slams Ted Cruz for touting infrastructure project he voted against

The White House on Wednesday took to Twitter to slam Sen. Ted Cruz (R-Texas) for highlighting his work advocating for a highway project he ultimately voted against in March. Cruz and Sen. Ben Ray L…

thehill.com

A dishonest political cheap shot towards an opponent??? The hell you say,…

 

[Bishop2b5]

A dishonest political cheap shot towards an opponent??? The hell you say,…

I KNOW! I was shocked too.

 

[Polish Leppy 22]

This is the post I responded to, if you're going to jump in and get all hot and bothered.

1. The 10's of millions claim
2. Legal/illegal immigration being for political purposes.

You both can not and for whatever reason are unable to post any stats that support your positions. At the end of the day are you advocating for legal immigrants not to be allowed to vote, even though they pay tax?

Yup, having a newborn at home means I'm not refreshing the IE page every half hour. Here's the rundown for ya:

1) Yes, tens of millions. The US has somewhere between 12 million and 20 million illegal immigrants by anyone's estimation.

2) Democrats are the ones promising free housing, free healthcare, etc. to everyone who crosses our border. Once they are here, they're entirely subsidized. No one is against legal immigration, but Democrats aren't promising free shit out of virtue. They want the votes, specifically in Texas. If Dems flip Texas blue, it's game over for presidential elections.

3) When illegal immigrants in the US have children here, the children are US citizens. So the parents who came to the country illegally will largely (not all) tell the kids to vote for Democrats because they "care."

4) It's a really easy sell for Dems to ignore the border problems, promise free shit to millions of poor people, and tell anyone who opposes that they're racist.

5) Yes, the border has been a problem for decades but Biden admin won't even go down there or acknowledge the problem. We have already had record breaking numbers of illegal immigrants coming across the border and they're not all from Mexico. This is indisputable. And for the 86th time on here, it doesn't matter if they're from Guatemala or Sweden or South Korea. It's illegal and they aren't all asylum seekers. There are requirements for that and being poor isn't one of them.

6) Canada or Mexico wouldn't accept 500,000 Americans who all needed housing, food, clothing, healthcare and education paid for by taxpayers but for some reason the US is expected to take everyone who shows up.

7) On top of all this, the coyotes and drug cartels running people and drugs are all living large these days.

 

[Cackalacky2.0]

Interracial marriages should be left to consenting adults.

 

[drayer54]

Interracial marriages should be left to consenting adults.

WOW!

The audacity to call for judicial consistency. Is he advocating against interracial marriage, or is he advocating for a clear scope of judicial review?

This is where we see a break in the left and right. The left wants judges to be legislators and do what they want. The right just wants judges who will preserve the law. If the law can be reasonably interpreted to leave authority not explicitly granted to the federal government to the states, then decisions on matters like this could appear to be not granted to the federal government. I'm not an expert on the decision, nor is this a fight I would pick in his role, especially as families are struggling to buy groceries and gas while crime is surging and the border is open in Biden's America.

But this is some wild drama to pretend that "the GOP" is advocating against interracial marriage. Blue anon is in the house!

 

[Cackalacky2.0]

 

[Irish#1]

Drayer and co.

You liked his post would you like share why you agree and support that position with numbers?

Still waiting on your response to the PPP vs Student loan stuff. You seemed eager for my thoughts so I'm sure you just missed it.

Who's "and co."?

Pretty sure I said I wasn't in favor of the PPP or forgiving anyone's student loans.

 

[Irish#1]

Brett Farve is involved in this.

 

[TorontoGold]

Yup, having a newborn at home means I'm not refreshing the IE page every half hour. Here's the rundown for ya:

1) Yes, tens of millions. The US has somewhere between 12 million and 20 million illegal immigrants by anyone's estimation.

2) Democrats are the ones promising free housing, free healthcare, etc. to everyone who crosses our border. Once they are here, they're entirely subsidized. No one is against legal immigration, but Democrats aren't promising free shit out of virtue. They want the votes, specifically in Texas. If Dems flip Texas blue, it's game over for presidential elections.

3) When illegal immigrants in the US have children here, the children are US citizens. So the parents who came to the country illegally will largely (not all) tell the kids to vote for Democrats because they "care."

4) It's a really easy sell for Dems to ignore the border problems, promise free shit to millions of poor people, and tell anyone who opposes that they're racist.

5) Yes, the border has been a problem for decades but Biden admin won't even go down there or acknowledge the problem. We have already had record breaking numbers of illegal immigrants coming across the border and they're not all from Mexico. This is indisputable. And for the 86th time on here, it doesn't matter if they're from Guatemala or Sweden or South Korea. It's illegal and they aren't all asylum seekers. There are requirements for that and being poor isn't one of them.

6) Canada or Mexico wouldn't accept 500,000 Americans who all needed housing, food, clothing, healthcare and education paid for by taxpayers but for some reason the US is expected to take everyone who shows up.

7) On top of all this, the coyotes and drug cartels running people and drugs are all living large these days.

Ok, so the tens of millions claim doesn't seem necessarily that true as it seems like there are 11M currently living in the US according to Profile of the Unauthorized Population - US - so the implication of there being 20/30M of illegal immigrants is hyperbole and incorrect.

To the other original point you made that there are states turning blue because of this, I pointed out the four border states and their electoral history with regards to the presidential elections. The only one seeing a shift has been New Mexico, the other three states are pretty steady. I asked you for some sort of statistical support you could provide to show that your position is true, haven't seen that so far.

To you points made in this post, it's tough to argue because they are made for emotional appeal and we're not going to convince each other that the other is wrong. The only point I'll make is, if someone is a US citizen who has satisfied the requirements to be a registered voter why is that wrong that 1st/2nd/3rd generation are voting? And if it isn't "wrong", isn't the onus on the Republican party to tailor their message to them to get their support?

 

[TorontoGold]

Who's "and co."?

Pretty sure I said I wasn't in favor of the PPP or forgiving anyone's student loans.

Don't worry, I have you in your own little category of "Whatever I post he's against it". Have you been coordinating with my exgf?

You did say that, but my point was that I cared less about the student loans as it was cheaper and directly impacting the life of an individual. Which is what you chided it and then respond as to which one was more important to you. So, since you made the initial point about the PPP vs student loans, which one do you think was better?

 

[Irish#1]

Don't worry, I have you in your own little category of "Whatever I post he's against it". Have you been coordinating with my exgf?

You did say that, but my point was that I cared less about the student loans as it was cheaper and directly impacting the life of an individual. Which is what you chided it and then respond as to which one was more important to you. So, since you made the initial point about the PPP vs student loans, which one do you think was better?

Nice tap dance, but just recently I told you I was against big business buyouts. Were we not on the same page there?

Neither. There's no reason I have to favor or disfavor one more than the other. On the student loans, why should a recent graduate be treated more favorably than one with loans that are 10, 15 years old?

 

[TorontoGold]

Nice tap dance, but just recently I told you I was against big business buyouts. Were we not on the same page there?

Neither. There's no reason I have to favor or disfavor one more than the other. On the student loans, why should a recent graduate be treated more favorably than one with loans that are 10, 15 years old?

There's a $378B gap between the two. To say they are equal is saying that the qualitative differences between the two policies are worth $378B. That is essentially 72% of the budgeted HHS Medicaid costs for 2021 https://www.hhs.gov/sites/default/files/fy-2022-budget-in-brief.pdf

In total that's 22.23% of the total 2022 HHS budget. You're allowed to say they're both equal but at the extreme difference in cost, how do you justify it?

If the student from 10/15 years ago has student loans they should be able to get that support, no? If point is "they paid their loans off why can't todays grads do it" would be to 1) Ignore how inflation/cost rate of change has outpaced wage growth exponentially 2) Assume that because something wasn't available to someone in the past that it shouldn't be offered to someone in present.

Mortgages in the 80s had crazy rates, should we expect everyone to pay those rates today. Or, based on the economic environment along with government policy we are ok with more favorable positions for today's society. Lastly, are we that selfish that because something bad happened to us, that someone getting something that will help them is somehow a negative thing for everyone?

 

[ab2cmiller]

I have had two kids graduate from college in the last 4 years. I have two currently in college.

In general I have ZERO empathy for kids with crazy amounts of debt. If they couldn’t figure out that coming out of school with a debt load that is unmanageable based upon an expected salary….. that is a YOU problem.

The only exception to this is some of the For Profit schools that were basically promising unreasonable expectations as far as what a degree from one of those colleges could do for them financially.

 

[Wild Bill]

I have had two kids graduate from college in the last 4 years. I have two currently in college.

In general I have ZERO empathy for kids with crazy amounts of debt. If they couldn’t figure out that coming out of school with a debt load that is unmanageable based upon an expected salary….. that is a YOU problem.

The only exception to this is some of the For Profit schools that were basically promising unreasonable expectations as far as what a degree from one of those colleges could do for them financially.

We can point the finger at 18 year olds and mock them for making poor financial decisions but we'll probably fix the problem by asking why a lender would ever allow them to borrow an unpayable amount of debt.

And it's not a YOU problem when the volume of loans is what it is today. A mass default could negatively impact our entire economy.

What does it say about our country that we even allow usurers to strap our youth with this level of debt? It's insanity.

 

[Polish Leppy 22]

Ok, so the tens of millions claim doesn't seem necessarily that true as it seems like there are 11M currently living in the US according to Profile of the Unauthorized Population - US - so the implication of there being 20/30M of illegal immigrants is hyperbole and incorrect.

To the other original point you made that there are states turning blue because of this, I pointed out the four border states and their electoral history with regards to the presidential elections. The only one seeing a shift has been New Mexico, the other three states are pretty steady. I asked you for some sort of statistical support you could provide to show that your position is true, haven't seen that so far.

To you points made in this post, it's tough to argue because they are made for emotional appeal and we're not going to convince each other that the other is wrong. The only point I'll make is, if someone is a US citizen who has satisfied the requirements to be a registered voter why is that wrong that 1st/2nd/3rd generation are voting? And if it isn't "wrong", isn't the onus on the Republican party to tailor their message to them to get their support?

Your reliance on the 11m number is laughable. Reality is we have no idea what that number is and it's probably way more than that. And we've seen a record number of border crossings this year. No hyperbole here bud.

The Dems goal is to flip Texas (and the country) blue. Texas is still a red state but those margins are growing smaller every election year.

It's tough to argue my points because they're based in reality. The responsibility of the federal government, regardless of the party in power, is to secure our border and enforce our laws. That isn't happening.