Politics

[phgreek]

How much more you want amateur?

<a href="http://www.topaccountingdegrees.org/taxes/"><img src="http://www.topaccountingdegrees.org/taxes/rich.jpg" alt="How The Super Rich Avoid Paying Taxes" width="500" border="0" /></a><br />Source: <a href="http://www.topaccountingdegrees.org">TopAccountingDegrees.org</a>

all that cheating and ducking, yet the fact remains...

In 2010, the top 10% of earners in the US paid 70% of all income taxes. The other 90% pitched in for the remaining 30%, and 47% of Americans pay no income tax. ---- The Tax Foundation

Also...how about we get just as outraged about the fact that in 2010 Medicare and Medicaid made 27 Billion in improper payments...those that were just mistakes...and no one tries to get it back...and then the 65 Billion a year in actual recipient Fraud of which 1.1 Billion is recaptured.

Its pretty easy...SOME PEOPLE "Cheat"...us. Defining one as more acceptable is an untenable position...yet by ignoring one...isn't that the effect?

 

[Polish Leppy 22]

How much more you want amateur?

<a href="http://www.topaccountingdegrees.org/taxes/"><img src="http://www.topaccountingdegrees.org/taxes/rich.jpg" alt="How The Super Rich Avoid Paying Taxes" width="500" border="0" /></a><br />Source: <a href="http://www.topaccountingdegrees.org">TopAccountingDegrees.org</a>

No one is denying the loopholes and those who know how to use them will benefit from them. So your cute little diagram doesn't answer my three basic questions:

What is the fair share, who determines the fair share, and under what authority does he/ she do that?

 

[wizards8507]

What is the fair share, who determines the fair share, and under what authority does he/ she do that?

Exactly.

To me, the MOST "fair" state of things would be a man or woman keeping 100% of the fruits of his or her labor to do with as he or she sees fit. Taxes and redistribution don't create "fairness," they're a necessary UNfairness. Tax cuts don't "give money" to the wealthy, they just allow the wealthy to keep more of the money that was theirs in the first place.

 

[enrico514]

"Obama administration knew millions could not keep their health insurance"

Obama administration knew millions could not keep their health insurance - Investigations

 

[irishpat183]

all that cheating and ducking, yet the fact remains...

In 2010, the top 10% of earners in the US paid 70% of all income taxes. The other 90% pitched in for the remaining 30%, and 47% of Americans pay no income tax. ---- The Tax Foundation
Also...how about we get just as outraged about the fact that in 2010 Medicare and Medicaid made 27 Billion in improper payments...those that were just mistakes...and no one tries to get it back...and then the 65 Billion a year in actual recipient Fraud of which 1.1 Billion is recaptured.

Its pretty easy...SOME PEOPLE "Cheat"...us. Defining one as more acceptable is an untenable position...yet by ignoring one...isn't that the effect?

Exactly. Fact: rich people pay most of the taxes...it's not even close.

The libbies will point too moronic charts and graphs about how much their NOT GETTING outta rich guy's pocket, but they fail to see that our tax bill is paid by rich folk.

 

[ND NYC]

you kids on here below 26 years old realize you can now stay on your parents health insurance due to obamacare right?

 

[irishpat183]

No one is denying the loopholes and those who know how to use them will benefit from them. So your cute little diagram doesn't answer my three basic questions:

What is the fair share, who determines the fair share, and under what authority does he/ she do that?

Exactly.

To me, the MOST "fair" state of things would be a man or woman keeping 100% of the fruits of his or her labor to do with as he or she sees fit. Taxes and redistribution don't create "fairness," they're a necessary UNfairness. Tax cuts don't "give money" to the wealthy, they just allow the wealthy to keep more of the money that was theirs in the first place.

Fellas!!

Fair share is determined by other rich guys who avoid paying taxes thta sit up on capitol hill and make promises to guys like BobD and fool them into thinking their getting hosed by those 10% that already pay all the taxes!!




Fair is the worst word in our language. It's a farce. Life isn't fair. I'm glad it's not.

 

[irishpat183]

you kids on here below 26 years old realize you can now stay on your parents health insurance due to obamacare right?

LOL....Then those same kids come off and can't afford the premiums at 27.

 

[Buster Bluth]

Exactly.

To me, the MOST "fair" state of things would be a man or woman keeping 100% of the fruits of his or her labor to do with as he or she sees fit. Taxes and redistribution don't create "fairness," they're a necessary UNfairness. Tax cuts don't "give money" to the wealthy, they just allow the wealthy to keep more of the money that was theirs in the first place.

Wait, what? Are you advocating 0% taxes?

 

[irishpat183]

Wait, what? Are you advocating 0% taxes?

I've heard a 0% tax rate for the bottom 60% earners. That way, they don't get a refund (they've actually cost us money in "refunds")


And I'm all for a flat tax.

 

[wizards8507]

Wait, what? Are you advocating 0% taxes?

No. I'm saying philosophically a 0% tax would be the "most fair." If you read my original post, I acknowledged that taxes are necessary, but not on the premise of "fairness." "Fair" would be "you work for it, you keep it and do whatever you want with it." Yes, taxes are necessary but the "fairness" argument is crap.

 

[Buster Bluth]

And I'm all for a flat tax.

Of course you would be. I think such an idea is borderline insane.

 

[IrishJayhawk]

Exactly. Fact: rich people pay most of the taxes...it's not even close.

The libbies will point too moronic charts and graphs about how much their NOT GETTING outta rich guy's pocket, but they fail to see that our tax bill is paid by rich folk.

If you ignore the payroll tax, for which the wealthy get a complete waiver after about $110,000.

The one tax graph you really need to know

 

[BobD]

What is the fair share, who determines the fair share, and under what authority does he/ she do that?

Your own self-consciousness.

 

[Bluto]

No one is denying the loopholes and those who know how to use them will benefit from them. So your cute little diagram doesn't answer my three basic questions:

What is the fair share, who determines the fair share, and under what authority does he/ she do that?

The fair share is what the Congress says it is. Also, everyone is acting like the poor don't pay taxes. They pay all kinds of regressive taxes such as sales tax, bridge tolls, gas tax, user fees...so if someone could produce a figure that shows who pays what in total taxes/fees as a proportion of total income then I think we would all have a clearer understanding of how "fair" our tax system on the Federal, State and local levels are.

Anyhow, say what you want about taxes but letting individuals accumulate massive ammounts of wealth and pass that along to their offspring is the beginning of the end of any sort of free and merit based society. It concentrates politcal and economic power and creates a completely insular ruling class that is out of touch with 99.9% of humanity. If you want to see what type of society is produced by such policies and that type of thinking look at present day Mexico.

 

[DSully1995]

Of course you would be. I think such an idea is borderline insane.

Huh? My province is socialist canada has a flat tax, well its 0% to a point then 10%, it pretty fair in my definition

 

[GowerND11]

The fair share is what the Congress says it is. Also, everyone is acting like the poor don't pay taxes. They pay all kinds of regressive taxes such as sales tax, bridge tolls, gas tax, user fees...so if someone could produce a figure that shows who pays what in total taxes/fees as a proportion of total income then I think we would all have a clearer understanding of how "fair" our tax system on the Federal, State and local levels are.

Anyhow, say what you want about taxes but letting individuals accumulate massive ammounts of wealth and pass that along to their offspring is the beginning of the end of any sort of free and merit based society. It concentrates politcal and economic power and creates a completely insular ruling class that is out of touch with 99.9% of humanity. If you want to see what type of society is produced by such policies and that type of thinking look at present day Mexico.

Could there be an argument that Congress shouldn't be who says what the fair share is due to their inability to be in touch with 99.9% of the country? Considering the fact that most Congress members come from this ruling class, their ability to determine what is right and fair for the people is vastly skewed? Just my initial thought here.

 

[irishpat183]

Your own self-consciousness.

Those that want to take my hard earned money and give it to someone else are the ones that need to look in the mirror. How ignorant is THAT??

 

[irishpat183]

Of course you would be. I think such an idea is borderline insane.

You want "fairness", correct?

What's more fair than the same rate for everyone? We're all created equal, no?

 

[irishpat183]

The fair share is what the Congress says it is. Also, everyone is acting like the poor don't pay taxes. They pay all kinds of regressive taxes such as sales tax, bridge tolls, gas tax, user fees...so if someone could produce a figure that shows who pays what in total taxes/fees as a proportion of total income then I think we would all have a clearer understanding of how "fair" our tax system on the Federal, State and local levels are.

Anyhow, say what you want about taxes but letting individuals accumulate massive ammounts of wealth and pass that along to their offspring is the beginning of the end of any sort of free and merit based society. It concentrates politcal and economic power and creates a completely insular ruling class that is out of touch with 99.9% of humanity. If you want to see what type of society is produced by such policies and that type of thinking look at present day Mexico.

Sheesh...you've lost it.

 

[wizards8507]

If you ignore the payroll tax, for which the wealthy get a complete waiver after about $110,000.

The one tax graph you really need to know

That chart is intellectually dishonest. It shows the tax burden by percentage of income, not by dollars paid. A man earning $1M paying 30% is sending $300,000 to the government. A man making $50,000 and paying 20% is sending $10,000 to the government. Your bullsht chart would show those figures as the "rich" man paying 10 percentage points more than the middle-class man. What it doesn't show is that the rich man is paying 30 TIMES more in actual dollars even though his income is just 20 times larger.

 

[wizards8507]

The fair share is what the Congress says it is. Also, everyone is acting like the poor don't pay taxes. They pay all kinds of regressive taxes such as sales tax, bridge tolls, gas tax, user fees...so if someone could produce a figure that shows who pays what in total taxes/fees as a proportion of total income then I think we would all have a clearer understanding of how "fair" our tax system on the Federal, State and local levels are.

Anyhow, say what you want about taxes but letting individuals accumulate massive ammounts of wealth and pass that along to their offspring is the beginning of the end of any sort of free and merit based society. It concentrates politcal and economic power and creates a completely insular ruling class that is out of touch with 99.9% of humanity. If you want to see what type of society is produced by such policies and that type of thinking look at present day Mexico.

Bridge/road tolls, bus fares, and other use taxes should be the model for all public services. That way the people USING the highway system are the ones paying for the highways. The ones with kids in the schools are the ones paying for teachers. The ones riding the bus are the ones funding public transit. If I never get anywhere near a bridge, why should I be funding its maintenance?

 

[Buster Bluth]

You want "fairness", correct?

What's more fair than the same rate for everyone? We're all created equal, no?

This is one of the lamest popular arguments in all of political discourse.

 

[Buster Bluth]

Bridge/road tolls, bus fares, and other use taxes should be the model for all public services. That way the people USING the highway system are the ones paying for the highways. The ones with kids in the schools are the ones paying for teachers. The ones riding the bus are the ones funding public transit. If I never get anywhere near a bridge, why should I be funding its maintenance?

How do you expect goods to get to you?

It's shades of gray, not black and white. I fully agree with the principle of "the people USING the highway system are the ones paying for the highways," but only in the sense of paying a larger share of the costs so local governments have to go on a "Road Diet" and make real choices. There are a lot of benefits to these current budget strains, I'll say that much.

But the idea that everyone pays bridge tolls, bus fares, etc is just so overboard.

 

[Buster Bluth]

Huh? My province is socialist canada has a flat tax, well its 0% to a point then 10%, it pretty fair in my definition

I'm speaking in terms of federal.

 

[Buster Bluth]

That chart is intellectually dishonest. It shows the tax burden by percentage of income, not by dollars paid. A man earning $1M paying 30% is sending $300,000 to the government. A man making $50,000 and paying 20% is sending $10,000 to the government. Your bullsht chart would show those figures as the "rich" man paying 10 percentage points more than the middle-class man. What it doesn't show is that the rich man is paying 30 TIMES more in actual dollars even though his income is just 20 times larger.

And yet, his life is exponentially better with the remaining $700,000 versus the man with the remaining $40,000.

 

[Irish Houstonian]

This is one of the lamest popular arguments in all of political discourse.

If you're trying to be ironic, you just won the internet.

 

[irishpat183]

And yet, his life is exponentially better with the remaining $700,000 versus the man with the remaining $40,000.

And?

 

[Polish Leppy 22]

Your own self-consciousness.

LMAO

 

[Quinntastic]

And?

And that means that the person with $700,000 can be reasonably expected to have a better quality of life than the man with $40,000. So the "it's not fair to the rich" argument is baloney. It might not be "fair", but it affects rich people's quality of life less than the poor. So what is lacking in "fairness", is made up for by that friggin' sweet island they own.