Politics

[irishpat183]

Read my posts, I have absolutely no problem calling you out by (screen) name. I didn't want to make the issue entirely about you, so I left off your name in this post alone. But yes, I think you are the source of a lot of ugliness on this site. Just my opinion, and I'm willing to consider whether I have read too much into some posts that have been made in this thread. In others, like the one mentioned here, I don't think there's much room for misinterpretation.

But not as much as Tommy Rees, right?

 

[autry_denson]

But not as much as Tommy Rees, right?

debatable. he's an RKG. you're a FAR RKG.

 

[connor_in]

Yup...I can accept that for the most part. I do think network news inflates bad R news and Good D news...disproportionately...just not to the level of cable news...In fact Cronkite copped to it many years ago...albeit he justified it as "rooting for the under dog".

Another example of this was brought up by a buddy of mine...didja ever notice that the homeless in america disappear during D admins but are always a problem and source of news during R admins...at least to anyone following the news by way of the MSM

 

[GowerND11]

Cheers, thanks for the explanation. My three concerns are:

1) what led this guy, who seemed to me like a pretty thoughtful poster, to decide to post that all of a sudden? on this question I still don't know the answer, and the fact that he's banned permanently means we won't know if there was some other explanation other than that he just went off the handle.

2) should a pm ever be grounds for a permanent ban? b/c if so, then one would think that it should be all pm's, not just those sent to mods. if he had sent that pm to me, for instance, would he be banned? if not then we are in a somewhat awkward situation where you can get banned not for what you write, but who you write it to.

3) the racial undertones in many of the posts on this site continue to surprise me. maybe it's just a reflection of discourse on the right more generally, but I am shocked at how often it emerges and goes unchecked or unnoticed. I know it's difficult to moderate explicit versus subtle racism, so perhaps there's not much that can be done. But I wonder about the fact that someone is still an active member of this site after posting a thread which had the title "if Obama had a son...," and which linked to a story about 3 black kids who killed a white guy. that seems about as explicit as one could get.

anyway, it's not a general complaint about how this thread is moderated. just some discomfort about how this went down.

Well originally 95 said this:

Exactly, and it was not because of these right wing wackos who are holding our country and the world economy hostage. It was because of the strong middle class who worked their asses off to better themselves and this country. Something that the rich a** white Republicans seem to have forgotten.

At which point I responded with:

You do realize that a middle class essentially didn't exist until ~1900 thanks in large part to rich *** white men who built America. Seriously, watch that miniseries from the History Channel, Men Who Built America. Without these rich men fueling the economy by industrializing the nation and creating jobs for the poor Americans who then were eventually able to move towards a new middle class being developed at the time, also thanks to other rich white men who invented many new commodities. It was thanks to a relatively hands off (laissez faire) government that allowed the nation to prosper and grow and support a middle class. The government got their money thanks to some taxes which kept it happy, but for the most part government intervention was nonexistent, even after the Sherman Antitrust Act was passed in the 1880s. It was until Teddy Roosevelt was in office that "trust busting" actually started happening, ~20 years AFTER legislation to regulate big business was passed.

Now today we know more regulations are a neccessity, pollution, workers rights, etc, yet big business still dominates. The Democrates have no problems taking money for their campaigns from rich white guys, even though they "stand for the little guy." Look both parties suck balls right now there is no way around that. To come on here and just blatantly insult other board members and asking what community college they graduated from because they have different political views as you is pretty low and doesn't really go along with the D's view of "equality."

I guess you could say I took his bait, but I did try and provide a counter point to his original, slightly racist, post. He then went off with that overtly racist post which led to about 5ish responses from some of us. Our responses were mainly that of shock he would say something like that. Within 10 minutes Whiskey came in and cleaned up the mess, which led to the PM and subsequent ban.

 

[Circa]

Obama is in all reality standing up to certain republicans who only want to cause harm... It becomes more and more obvious when certain pub's like O'Reilly actually understanding the aforementioned idea! and then they try to turn it into something else... Puke

 

[Circa]

Well originally 95 said this:



At which point I responded with:



I guess you could say I took his bait, but I did try and provide a counter point to his original, slightly racist, post. He then went off with that overtly racist post which led to about 5ish responses from some of us. Our responses were mainly that of shock he would say something like that. Within 10 minutes Whiskey came in and cleaned up the mess, which led to the PM and subsequent ban.

I can't completely understand why you felt the need to throw white men around to the extent that ya did... but I also don't disagree with that response! I think we are at an age in time were the media uses most racial identity issues as bait and angers a lot.. but we are all fighting the mini battle that we all feel, so I guess I can't blame ya!

 

[Circa]

Another example of this was brought up by a buddy of mine...didja ever notice that the homeless in america disappear during D admins but are always a problem and source of news during R admins...at least to anyone following the news by way of the MSM

Is that the issue we all are missing? Imo.. They cornered the simple mind market and we are allowing it..

 

[phgreek]

Another example of this was brought up by a buddy of mine...didja ever notice that the homeless in america disappear during D admins but are always a problem and source of news during R admins...at least to anyone following the news by way of the MSM

I'd heard that discussed before...but honestly I haven't lived anywhere metropolitan enough, for long enough to have more than a few dudes living by the river where I fished...

I have wandered how that stacked up...I'm sure one of the media watch folks have stats...

You'd think since 08 there would have been significant coverage of the issue in the media due to economy...be interesting to see...

 

[GowerND11]

I can't completely understand why you felt the need to throw white men around to the extent that ya did... but I also don't disagree with that response! I think we are at an age in time were the media uses most racial identity issues as bait and angers a lot.. but we are all fighting the mini battle that we all feel, so I guess I can't blame ya!

I see your point. I mainly did so just as a counter to his claim that the "rich white republicans" are to blame and forget about the little man. I was attempting to show that without rich white men this nation wouldn't be as successful as it is/was (Carnegie, Vanderbilt, Rockefeller, etc. Not to insinuate that ONLY rich white men can take credit for success, just that the fact was these men really helped industrialize the nation rather quickly).

Maybe my post did come off as subtly racist, but that surely was not my intent. Therefore if others do feel it was please, I want to make it clear I was in no way trying to be racist.

 

[Polish Leppy 22]

Insinuating that red states don't nanny the hell out of constituents, and that blue states don't follow the Constitution, is just silly.

I think the blue states would dominate in that regard too. The GDP has to be larger right? California, New York, New Jersey, Illinois, Pennsylvania, Ohio, Michigan, North Carolina, Washington. It adds up pretty quickly.

California, ny, nj, and illinois are all losimg thousands of people every year to other states for financial reasons. How long can small to medium sized businesses survive with little industry and dwindlimg population?

 

[Polish Leppy 22]

the lack of knowledge and understanding of our country that is exhibited in this post is amazing.

And you are a genius

 

[autry_denson]

I see your point. I mainly did so just as a counter to his claim that the "rich white republicans" are to blame and forget about the little man. I was attempting to show that without rich white men this nation wouldn't be as successful as it is/was (Carnegie, Vanderbilt, Rockefeller, etc. Not to insinuate that ONLY rich white men can take credit for success, just that the fact was these men really helped industrialize the nation rather quickly).

Maybe my post did come off as subtly racist, but that surely was not my intent. Therefore if others do feel it was please, I want to make it clear I was in no way trying to be racist.

Obviously it was not your intent, but your post could easily be read as: "You know those guys who brutally exploited and in some cases enslaved your ancestors? Well show some appreciation for their work in making this country as great as it is."

Honestly, it's not too hard to see why someone would fly off the handle reading this.

(On a side note: You realize it was not possible for anyone but white men to become leaders of large companies at the time, right? It's not all that convincing to say we should celebrate the accomplishments of white men given that white women and all nonwhite men and women were systematically excluded from every opportunity at the time.)

 

[Polish Leppy 22]

LMAO! Please tell me you're not serious.

The leftists get what they want, conservatives get what they want. If there is failure we know why and same with success.

What's your idea? My guess is I'll wait just as long for this answer as I am for your claiming my facts on ACA are opinion. Yawn...guess Chris Matthews still hasn't amswered your tweet for help.

 

[wizards8507]

Obviously it was not your intent, but your post could easily be read as: "You know those guys who brutally exploited and in some cases enslaved your ancestors? Well show some appreciation for their work in making this country as great as it is."

Honestly, it's not too hard to see why someone would fly off the handle reading this.

(On a side note: You realize it was not possible for anyone but white men to become leaders of large companies at the time, right? It's not all that convincing to say we should celebrate the accomplishments of white men given that white women and all nonwhite men and women were systematically excluded from every opportunity at the time.)

So white people should be condemned because different white people had unfair advantages decades ago? Holding the son responsible for the sins of his father is a misguided morality.

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy S III using Tapatalk 4

 

[GowerND11]

Obviously it was not your intent, but your post could easily be read as: "You know those guys who brutally exploited and in some cases enslaved your ancestors? Well show some appreciation for their work in making this country as great as it is."

Honestly, it's not too hard to see why someone would fly off the handle reading this.

(On a side note: You realize it was not possible for anyone but white men to become leaders of large companies at the time, right? It's not all that convincing to say we should celebrate the accomplishments of white men given that white women and all nonwhite men and women were systematically excluded from every opportunity at the time.)

I see your point. It CAN be read that way. I like to look at history as what it is, history. We can't change that white males, especially Protestant, dominated politics, and industry at this time. But we can look back at it and realize what great innovators some of these men were. Sure someone could/would have done what they did, but would they have been as successful? What if it was even 5 years later, would the world be different because of it? That kind of thinking is what got me interested in teaching social studies. It's like the butterfly effect. What if someone somewhere didn't do what they did when they did? It's amazing to think how, for example, if Thomas Edison didn't invent the light bulb when he did, maybe Tesla doesn't develop AC which starts a ripple effect. It's all pretty amazing.

So white people should be condemned because different white people had unfair advantages decades ago? Holding the son responsible for the sins of his father is a misguided morality.

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy S III using Tapatalk 4

Right there can be attempts from some to make a broad stroke that all white people were to blame, and, as such, all white people should be guilty. However, we must all remember that, while the past can't change, we cannot forget it either. Therefore, it is important to note that we, all Americans, have a shared past that, at many times, is not so rosy. We should not be ashamed however, rather we should admit the mistakes of "our fathers" and learn lessons from them. Instead of being held responsible for YESTERDAY, we should be held accountable for our actions TODAY so that we are not doomed to repeat history.

 

[pkt77242]

California, ny, nj, and illinois are all losimg thousands of people every year to other states for financial reasons. How long can small to medium sized businesses survive with little industry and dwindlimg population?

Um California's population is growing (about .8%) and that is pretty much in line with what the rest of the countries population growth rate is (.7 or so). While yes people do move away from California, many people also move to California. Hell even New Jersey is growing at .3% or so which puts it below the national average, but they are by no means seeing a mass exodus. In general you see people leaving cold weather for warm weather but that has as much to do with the fact that older citizens have a tendency to move to warm climates when they get older (see growth in AZ, FL, etc). New York's population is still growing though again not as fast as other states. So I find your theory that their population is dwindling to be untrue.

 

[BobD]

The leftists get what they want, conservatives get what they want. If there is failure we know why and same with success.

What's your idea? My guess is I'll wait just as long for this answer as I am for your claiming my facts on ACA are opinion. Yawn...guess Chris Matthews still hasn't amswered your tweet for help.

My idea for what? I was just letting you know your idea was kinda stupid and not thought out.

What I said about the ACA was correct, I wasn't claiming, I was telling.

Tweet, who, what? What the hell are you talking about? Lay off the stuff man, your confusing yourself.

 

[BobD]

California, ny, nj, and illinois are all losimg thousands of people every year to other states for financial reasons. How long can small to medium sized businesses survive with little industry and dwindlimg population?

Wrong.

 

[phgreek]

Wrong.

The only thing I can see is the population growth in Utah from outside of Utah...when you remove illegals from the count, CA leads the pack. Hard to say if CA statewide the numbers of folks leaving are increasing...I can say the number of CA folks coming to Utah seems to grow every year...

So far their influence has been limited to taking over and bankrupting solvent HOAs in St. George...SMFH.

 

[Buster Bluth]

California, ny, nj, and illinois are all losimg thousands of people every year to other states for financial reasons. How long can small to medium sized businesses survive with little industry and dwindlimg population?

Lolol

 

[Polish Leppy 22]

Um California's population is growing (about .8%) and that is pretty much in line with what the rest of the countries population growth rate is (.7 or so). While yes people do move away from California, many people also move to California. Hell even New Jersey is growing at .3% or so which puts it below the national average, but they are by no means seeing a mass exodus. In general you see people leaving cold weather for warm weather but that has as much to do with the fact that older citizens have a tendency to move to warm climates when they get older (see growth in AZ, FL, etc). New York's population is still growing though again not as fast as other states. So I find your theory that their population is dwindling to be untrue.

I posted census stats months ago on here abiut this topic. More people are leaving CA than coming in. Same with businesses. I'm not saying CA will have a population of 300,000 next year. My point is people are leaving, the state is going to lose a lot of tax revenue, and it's already beyond broke. I smell a bailout...

 

[Polish Leppy 22]

Wrong.

You have a talent in saying I'm wrong on everything with nothing to back it up

 

[Polish Leppy 22]

The only thing I can see is the population growth in Utah from outside of Utah...when you remove illegals from the count, CA leads the pack. Hard to say if CA statewide the numbers of folks leaving are increasing...I can say the number of CA folks coming to Utah seems to grow every year...

So far their influence has been limited to taking over and bankrupting solvent HOAs in St. George...SMFH.

Ask liberals why theyre so focused on Texas and Wendy Davis. They really wanna flip Texas

 

[Polish Leppy 22]

My idea for what? I was just letting you know your idea was kinda stupid and not thought out.

What I said about the ACA was correct, I wasn't claiming, I was telling.

Tweet, who, what? What the hell are you talking about? Lay off the stuff man, your confusing yourself.

No, you're dodging the issue by mocking me. My first post was related to the gov shutdown and two parties who cant reach a deal because of philosophical differences. You laughed at my idea. My point is this "bipartisanship" has been screwing all of us for decades. So I say split up the big federal gov and give states more power. What's your idea?

CA is already in the crapper financially given the debt and future liabilities...

 

[irishpat183]

Obviously it was not your intent, but your post could easily be read as: "You know those guys who brutally exploited and in some cases enslaved your ancestors? Well show some appreciation for their work in making this country as great as it is."

Honestly, it's not too hard to see why someone would fly off the handle reading this.

(On a side note: You realize it was not possible for anyone but white men to become leaders of large companies at the time, right? It's not all that convincing to say we should celebrate the accomplishments of white men given that white women and all nonwhite men and women were systematically excluded from every opportunity at the time.)

Ignorant. How YOU (and 95) see that is the problem.

This is why "subtle" racism is bullshit. Merely mentioning pioneers in business and manufacturing shouldn't invoke racism...

They still worked hard and brought things to the country at a time when no one thought it was possible.

Insane that we can't even have a discussion about guys like Rockafeller or Morgan and their accomplishments without someone crying about how racist it was back then.

Just insane.


Now, If I was claiming that they were great guys and all about equality? Then I'd see the point to bring up how they treated minorities.

 

[irishpat183]

Ask liberals why theyre so focused on Texas and Wendy Davis. They really wanna flip Texas

LOL.....Wendy Davis....LOL


Ain't gonna happen. She's nice to look at...but dumb as a box of rocks and had about 15 mins of fame. If it weren't for her love of killing babies (and the UT student body that agrees) she wouldn't even be worth mentioning

 

[irishpat183]

California, ny, nj, and illinois are all losimg thousands of people every year to other states for financial reasons. How long can small to medium sized businesses survive with little industry and dwindlimg population?

Wrong.

Lolol

The “Exodus States:” People leaving New York, California, and Illinois in droves for lower tax states (Map) | AgainstCronyCapitalism.org



Wrong...LOLOL

 

[Polish Leppy 22]

The “Exodus States:” People leaving New York, California, and Illinois in droves for lower tax states (Map) | AgainstCronyCapitalism.org



Wrong...LOLOL

Well duh. Im the crazy anarchist as Harry Reid calls me and youre the Texas racist!

 

[phgreek]

Ask liberals why theyre so focused on Texas and Wendy Davis. They really wanna flip Texas

Texans should worry then...

I suggest before the election, Texas clean up voting records and death records...

I can't find a font for "only half kidding"...

 

[ACamp1900]

2017 newscast...

"In surprising news it has been found that Donald Duck voted 47,592 times in the election that essentially turned Texas blue back in 2014... each time for democrat candidates... This comes after the discovery of similar voting records for Howard Hughes, Martha Washington and Nicole Brown Simpson… Unfortunately for Republicans crying foul, the entire state has since been redistricted by state democrats…”