Politics

[Irish Houstonian]

I think the constant tax-code tweaking is partly why we're in the mess we're in. Special interest groups, lobbyists, PAC's, donors, all circling trying to get a cut makes for a patchwork Frankenstein of a code.

We need to get one simple code and stick with it.

Consider: 28 former aides to Max Baucus, Chairman of the Budget Committee, are now high-powered tax lobbyists.

 

[Ndaccountant]

I think the constant tax-code tweaking is partly why we're in the mess we're in. Special interest groups, lobbyists, PAC's, donors, all circling trying to get a cut makes for a patchwork Frankenstein of a code.

We need to get one simple code and stick with it.

Consider: 28 former aides to Max Baucus, Chairman of the Budget Committee, are now high-powered tax lobbyists.

I agree 100%.

I think the issue that we are in is due in part to two big reasons:

1. Lobbying
2. Politicians rarely see the big picture. This comes from not seeing the obvious (or worse ignoring it) or simply not being able to predict how people will try to skirt the law. This usually ends up with unitended consequences.

 

[BobD]

I think the constant tax-code tweaking is partly why we're in the mess we're in. Special interest groups, lobbyists, PAC's, donors, all circling trying to get a cut makes for a patchwork Frankenstein of a code.

We need to get one simple code and stick with it.

Consider: 28 former aides to Max Baucus, Chairman of the Budget Committee, are now high-powered tax lobbyists.

I also agree. A tax is revenue for our country, not a way to stimulate or manipulate something. One simple code is the way to go. Our current system is a convoluted mess.

As a very young private in the US Army I remember thinking how stupid I thought it was that our government collected taxes to pay my small government salary, then taxed it so I had to file a return, then at the time, they would send me more money back than I paid in, because I made so little. Ridiculous.

 

[IrishJayhawk]

I agree 100%.

I think the issue that we are in is due in part to two big reasons:

1. Lobbying
2. Politicians rarely see the big picture. This comes from not seeing the obvious (or worse ignoring it) or simply not being able to predict how people will try to skirt the law. This usually ends up with unitended consequences.

Nearly always benefiting the wealthy (who can afford the attorney to help them skirt the law).

 

[Ndaccountant]

Nearly always benefiting the wealthy (who can afford the attorney to help them skirt the law).

Well, there are two sides to it. One, is what you mention while the other is that the wealthy have more to gain / lose by not spending the time and resources to figure out loopholes.

 

[Bluto]

Always liked a bunch of the music that came out of the Thatcher Era UK. Anyhow, RIP Maggie. Thanks for inspiring a bunch of cool bands.

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/TYx7JqWlxLI" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

 

[irishpat183]

I also agree. A tax is revenue for our country, not a way to stimulate or manipulate something. One simple code is the way to go. Our current system is a convoluted mess.

As a very young private in the US Army I remember thinking how stupid I thought it was that our government collected taxes to pay my small government salary, then taxed it so I had to file a return, then at the time, they would send me more money back than I paid in, because I made so little. Ridiculous.

It's absurd.

 

[Black Irish]

I agree 100%.

I think the issue that we are in is due in part to two big reasons:

1. Lobbying
2. Politicians rarely see the big picture. This comes from not seeing the obvious (or worse ignoring it) or simply not being able to predict how people will try to skirt the law. This usually ends up with unitended consequences.

People like to say that Congress is made up of a bunch of crooks. But if they were crooks, at least they'd be able to see how the absurd laws they pass would tempt other people to be crooks. Anticipating unintended consequences and planning ahead doesn't seem to be in the average politicians' skill set. They all probably suck at chess. A drunk monkey could probably beat any one of them in less than 10 moves.

 

[RDU Irish]

I was talking more about what to invest in, not so much who can invest. Small business owners should be able to invest in it. However, in my scenario, they should not be allowed to invest in companies that are not public. This really is the bigger issue and is how guys generate IRA balances close to $100m. Generally speaking, as long you as you are not a controlling owner, you can invest in it.

And when they take out of the IRA it will be taxed as income, also forced RMDs starting at 70 means they can't pull a Buffett and own their shares forever only to gift to charity without ever paying taxes.

Just tax consumption and be done with the rest of it.

 

[Ndaccountant]

And when they take out of the IRA it will be taxed as income, also forced RMDs starting at 70 means they can't pull a Buffett and own their shares forever only to gift to charity without ever paying taxes.

Just tax consumption and be done with the rest of it.

But see, that is the best part about it. Since there are no restrictions on IRA conversions, you can essentially own a large stake in a private company, convert the shares to a Roth IRA, pay a tax up-front, take a company public, have a huge windfall and not own a dime on the income from taking the company public.

Is it legal to do that? Yep. It really shouldn't be tho.

 

[pumpdog20]

A lot of people want to move to a simpler tax code, but I believe we haven't done it, because it would elimnate a whole industry of middle class jobs.

Agree or disagree?

 

[Irish Houstonian]

But see, that is the best part about it. Since there are no restrictions on IRA conversions, you can essentially own a large stake in a private company, convert the shares to a Roth IRA, pay a tax up-front, take a company public, have a huge windfall and not own a dime on the income from taking the company public.

Is it legal to do that? Yep. It really shouldn't be tho.

Meh. An 83(b) election pretty much lets you do the same thing.

 

[Irish Houstonian]

A lot of people want to move to a simpler tax code, but I believe we haven't done it, because it would elimnate a whole industry of middle class jobs.

Agree or disagree?

If the candlemakers can find work post-lightbulb, I think H&R Block can make due. Frees up capital and labor for more productive uses.

 

[irishpat183]

If the candlemakers can find work post-lightbulb, I think H&R Block can make due. Frees up capital and labor for more productive uses.

Exactly. The beauty of the market is that when one industry falls, another will find a way to take it's place. And it's not like it's going to happen overnight or people aren't still going to need help doing their taxes.

 

[Buster Bluth]

If the candlemakers can find work post-lightbulb, I think H&R Block can make due. Frees up capital and labor for more productive uses.

Exactly. The beauty of the market is that when one industry falls, another will find a way to take it's place. And it's not like it's going to happen overnight or people aren't still going to need help doing their taxes.

I had discussed this at length weeks ago when I talked about advanced robotics and the sheer ability of automation these days.

Before ~1750 everyone was certain that poverty was inescapable and that a human could only do ~X amount of work. From 1750-Pres we've been certain that human capital can always be moved into new markets, as irishpat says. If everyone was wrong then, they can be wrong now/in the near future.

I'm of the opinion that we will see unemployment rates for the uneducated get higher and higher, and the conservatives will have a ton of cognitive dissonance trying to balance "unemployment = laziness" and "market solutions are best." I'm also of the opinion that "uneducated" will mean different things; in 1600 if you could read, you were educated. In 1900 if you graduated high school you were educated. Today, you basically need a masters degree.

Simply saying, we're getting to the point where we can see how entire industries can be automated from start to finish. We're also getting to the point where intelligent computers are supplementing and lawyers, professors, and even doctors. One day, they will replace. It goes in three steps: complement, supplement, replace. Various markets are at different stages, but there is no doubt that we are seeing the threshold of "what can be automated" go up and up and up.

 

[Ndaccountant]

I had discussed this at length weeks ago when I talked about advanced robotics and the sheer ability of automation these days.

Before ~1750 everyone was certain that poverty was inescapable and that a human could only do ~X amount of work. From 1750-Pres we've been certain that human capital can always be moved into new markets, as irishpat says. If everyone was wrong then, they can be wrong now/in the near future.

I'm of the opinion that we will see unemployment rates for the uneducated get higher and higher, and the conservatives will have a ton of cognitive dissonance trying to balance "unemployment = laziness" and "market solutions are best." I'm also of the opinion that "uneducated" will mean different things; in 1600 if you could read, you were educated. In 1900 if you graduated high school you were educated. Today, you basically need a masters degree.

Simply saying, we're getting to the point where we can see how entire industries can be automated from start to finish. We're also getting to the point where intelligent computers are supplementing and lawyers, professors, and even doctors. One day, they will replace. It goes in three steps: complement, supplement, replace. Various markets are at different stages, but there is no doubt that we are seeing the threshold of "what can be automated" go up and up and up.

We need to let robots take over. They will do jobs we have been doing, and do them much better than we can. They will do jobs we can’t do at all. They will do jobs we never imagined even needed to be done. And they will help us discover new jobs for ourselves, new tasks that expand who we are.

Let the robots take the jobs, and let them help us dream up new work that matters. This postindustrial economy will keep expanding, even though most of the work is done by bots, because part of your task tomorrow will be to find, make, and complete new things to do, new things that will later become repetitive jobs for the robots.

We will be okay.

 

[GoIrish41]

We need to let robots take over. They will do jobs we have been doing, and do them much better than we can. They will do jobs we can’t do at all. They will do jobs we never imagined even needed to be done. And they will help us discover new jobs for ourselves, new tasks that expand who we are.

Let the robots take the jobs, and let them help us dream up new work that matters. This postindustrial economy will keep expanding, even though most of the work is done by bots, because part of your task tomorrow will be to find, make, and complete new things to do, new things that will later become repetitive jobs for the robots.

We will be okay.

Good post Ndaccountant. You keep sounding that optimistic and people are going to start calling you a liberal. hahaha

 

[ACamp1900]

How could we tax the robots??? and how do we support them when they are in need of repairs... new entitlements.

 

[Ndaccountant]

How could we tax the robots??? and how do we support them when they are in need of repairs... new entitlements.

why not, they will be the new "working class", hahaha.

 

[Irish Houstonian]

why not, they will be the new "working class", hahaha.

"No more tax cuts for the breeders"

 

[Ndaccountant]

Good post Ndaccountant. You keep sounding that optimistic and people are going to start calling you a liberal. hahaha

hey now, let's not get too crazy.

We will be fine. We should embrace the opportunity to capitalize on ability to provide something that makes the world more efficient. Sure, the jobs of today will be gone and that is okay. We just need to make sure that we provide the incentives for people to continue to expand their skill set.

I for, am really looking forward to the day when flying cars become the norm. I hate the airlines.

 

[MJ12666]

We need to let robots take over. They will do jobs we have been doing, and do them much better than we can. They will do jobs we can’t do at all. They will do jobs we never imagined even needed to be done. And they will help us discover new jobs for ourselves, new tasks that expand who we are.

Let the robots take the jobs, and let them help us dream up new work that matters. This postindustrial economy will keep expanding, even though most of the work is done by bots, because part of your task tomorrow will be to find, make, and complete new things to do, new things that will later become repetitive jobs for the robots.

We will be okay.

If robots take all the jobs, exactly what jobs are 7 billion people going to do?

 

[GoIrish41]

If robots take all the jobs, exactly what jobs are 7 billion people going to do?

We will all be serving our robot masters.

 

[chicago51]

If robots take all the jobs, exactly what jobs are 7 billion people going to do?

Well there is the service industry particularly in health care. If unemployment does someday creep to 20+ percent as Buster as suggested in the past posts it will be interesting to see what we do. There is transportation projects but even robots may be able do some of that and we can't all work on the roads. You could see a very large portion out of work on a low fixed income from the government.

By I think we have already seen some of this. There are many economic signs that economy has bounced back but it hasn't shown up in unemployment numbers. I still think things can get better from 7.6 with a real rate over 10 percent but 6 percent may be the new normal.

 

[ACamp1900]

We will all be serving our robot masters.

Like porn... Wait, what?

 

[GoIrish41]

Well there is the service industry particularly in health care. If unemployment does someday creep to 20+ percent as Buster as suggested in the past posts it will be interesting to see what we do. There is transportation projects but even robots may be able do some of that and we can't all work on the roads. You could see a very large portion out of work on a low fixed income from the government.

By I think we have already seen some of this. There are many economic signs that economy has bounced back but it hasn't shown up in unemployment numbers. I still think things can get better from 7.6 with a real rate over 10 percent but 6 percent may be the new normal.

Historically, 6 percent has been the norm. From 1976 to 2007 before the recession, the average unemployment rate was 5.9%. Take out the boom years under Clinton and the W. years before the economy tanked, and it is well over 6 percent. For most of my life, the unemployment rate has been over 6 percent. We just got spoiled over the past 20 years or so.

 

[BobD]

Historically, 6 percent has been the norm. From 1976 to 2007 before the recession, the average unemployment rate was 5.9%. Take out the boom years under Clinton and the W. years before the economy tanked, and it is well over 6 percent. For most of my life, the unemployment rate has been over 6 percent. We just got spoiled over the past 20 years or so.

The unemployment percentage has always amazed me. Sadly, but honestly I'm shocked it's not higher. Over the years I've interviewed hundreds if not thousands of people. Ten percent unemployment doesn't surprise me at all. A good manager in most cases should be trimming the bottom performing 10 percent annually.

This doesn't mean that I'm not compassionate, but you wouldn't believe some of the people that come through the door. It's sad.

 

[Irish Houstonian]

The unemployment percentage has always amazed me. Sadly, but honestly I'm shocked it's not higher. Over the years I've interviewed hundreds if not thousands of people. Ten percent unemployment doesn't surprise me at all. A good manager in most cases should be trimming the bottom performing 10 percent annually.

This doesn't mean that I'm not compassionate, but you wouldn't believe some of the people that come through the door. It's sad.

Sounds like you have pretty good instincts. If we calculated the UR the way we did back in 2000 it would be about 12%.

 

[Bluto]

Interesting report on NPR regarding Texas construction industry.

Construction Booming In Texas, But Many Workers Pay Dearly : NPR

 

[Black Irish]

If robots take all the jobs, exactly what jobs are 7 billion people going to do?

Let's hope that battling Terminators pays pretty well.